Madsen: Curtis, Feeney, Khashoggi link, $29.6 mil check, former CIA!

[AntiFascist]

It looks like this article by Wayne Madsen was posted 1 month ago, but no one seems to have reported it on this forum. You need to read the full article to understand the gist of it:

http://www.opednews.com/madsen_120704_voteswitch_software.htm

<snip>

An exhaustive investigation has turned up a link between current Florida Republican Representative Tom Feeney, a customized Windows-based program to suppress Democratic votes on touch screen voting machines, a Florida computer services company with whom Feeney worked as a general counsel and registered lobbyist while he was Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives, and top level officials of the Bush administration.

<snip>

Feeney "bragged that he could reduce the minority vote and deliver the election to 'George.'" At the same meeting, according to Curtis, Feeney said he had "implemented a list that would eliminate thousands of voters that would vote for Democratic candidates" and that "a proper placement of police patrols could further reduce the black vote by as much as 25 percent."


Feeney's desire to manipulate the vote would be manifested in his home base of Volusia County in the 2000 presidential election. According to The Washington Post, at 10 p.m. on election night, Al Gore was leading Bush in Volusia County by 83,000 to 62,000 votes. One-half hour later, Gore's vote total had been reduced by 16,000 to 67,000 and an obscure Socialist candidate saw a sudden surge to 10,000 votes in a precinct with only 600 voters. The information on the Volusia optical scanner voting anomalies came from a leaked internal Diebold memorandum. In the end, Bush won Florida and the White House by a mere 537 votes in the most controversial U.S. presidential election in history.

<snip>

In 2002, Feeney asked Curtis if he could develop a touch screen voting machine "flip flop" program. According to Curtis, Feeney asked him, "Can you write a program to flip votes around on touch screen machines?" Curtis said Feeney wanted the program to merely reduce votes in heavily Democratic areas and flip Republican votes to 51 percent and keep Democrat votes to 49 percent. Curtis added that Feeney "did not want to win by a lot."

<snip>

LePore had once been an employee of Saudi multi-billionaire Adnan Khashoggi, a Saudi link that is tied to a huge multi-billion tranche of money distributed throughout off-shore trusts, accounts, and corporations with interlocking directorships that are controlled by Bush interests in Houston. It was this Bush-controlled money cache, originating in the East, and known in Houston by the name "Five Star" and other cryptonyms that was, according to U.S. intelligence insiders, used to fund the rigging of the 2004 election.

<snip>

A NASA insider in Texas said he has long suspected large amounts of money have been moved into the United States and that these transfers involved NASA and Saudi and Chinese money sources.

There is additional information that the election rigging principals connected to the State of Florida and Jeb Bush may have also tried to use contractors tied closely to state contracts to parlay the touch screen software into Maine, which has proportional distribution of its electoral votes by congressional district, and Ohio, the key state in 2004. The information was provided by insiders in Tallahassee who are close to offices involved in procurement by the state government.

<snip>

A former Justice Department prosecutor who investigated the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) said that the bogus check <$29.6 mil> and those responsible for it are typical "feints" used to mask actual clandestine money movements from law enforcement investigators.

<snip>

After George W. Bush's victory in 2000, the last of the gold in New York was moved to UBS Bank in Zurich. Marcos and Khashoggi set about to create Five Star Trust in 1983 as a means to create a vehicle to use the Philippine wealth to create and funnel fungible assets. In 1989, Five Star Trust was officially established in the Isle of Man by a Houston-based attorney who was a close friend of the Bush family.

<snip>

A common theme from all the intelligence and ex-intelligence officials with whom I have communicated is that George W. Bush made a major mistake in attacking and purging the clandestine service of the CIA. The "agency," which extends far beyond the confines of Langley, Virginia, is having its revenge. It has willingly exposed a portion of a traditional clandestine CIA money route to expose the vote scam that was used to ensure Bush's election.

<snip>

The connections between NASA contracts, Texas, and Florida were additional clues to one of the major sources of the money used for the vote rigging.

[KingoftheJungle]

1. This was already posted I believe

Oh and if you check out SEC, you should find that Adnan Khashoggi is a big shareholder in Cybernet and Triad, and possibly other election/database companies tied into this.

[AntiFascist]

2. I searched back a couple of months on "Madsen"....

I don't seem to see anything posted to the 2004 Election Results forum specifically citing this article.

[harmonyguy]

7. Link please?

Please clarify if there any independently verifiable evidence that you can point to that actually connects Adnan Khashoggi with either Cybernet or Triad, or is this speculation?

Since there are so many companies using names that start with Cybernet or Triad, to avoid confusion would you please be more specific as to exactly WHICH Cybernet or Triad company you're referring, and whether or not they have anything to do with Federal/State or local elections? (many companies that include the word Cybernet or Triad in their corporate name have nothing to do with elections)

Of course, many folks here are already aware of Triad Governmental Systems Inc., in Xenia Ohio, being involved with elections. http://www.triadgsi.com

HG

[luaptifer]

10. harmonyguy, no links to this cybernet and this triad

i'm sure you're aware of the ongoing effort to propagate this farce at various forums but, for your reference here when he tried to attach it to andy's efforts, three different people debunked it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=279753#281146

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=279753#283837

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=279753#281258

[harmonyguy]

14. Oh, I know! I'm all for recycling but....

....even our local blue-bin recycling program requires that stale regurgitated scraps be removed from the stuff that gets accepted for processing. If stuff that really belongs in the garbage keeps getting re-submitted, they eventually take away one's blue-bin privileges.

Regretfully, with this Cybernet/Triad stuff, it would appear that we continue to get the same long regurgitated speculative mess every time, without credible answers.

HG

[AntiFascist]

20. Isn't it odd how much you sound like G.W. Bush...

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/74/2191.html?1106271327

"if anyone's interested in the closing act of what tried to be a reality show but ended up a SO ap opera."

Didn't Bush say something to the effect that this investigation was turning into a "bad late night show?"

All I can say is, stay tuned.....

[leveymg]

3. Any follow-up on this article? I know that Wayne got trashed by the

corporate press. Not surprising. But, has there been any corroboration of the central accusation made that the Saudis paid for software that actually found its way into rigged voting machines in the US, either in 2000 or 2004?

Thanks - Mark

[AntiFascist]

27. I don't have access to specific information about domestic...

voting systems, but Khashoggi has invested in Election.com (via Ultimate Holdings Ltd.) which "was also involved in the U.S.'s big democracy push into Eastern Europe."

I read somewhere that private feedback from the MSM is urging Madsen to move forward.

[Quakerfriend]

4. Madsen et al. seem to have much

evidence on hand.

I keep wondering when will this break wide open.

[euler]

9. I wonder too. Apparently their strategy....

....is to wait untill after the inauguration before releasing the evidence.

[rdmccur]

15. They're still putting the pieces together.

(They may include Arnebeck and Conyers and others)
Not first hand info so don't know anymore.

[Al-CIAda]

5. Covert Op That Ate The World

Covert Op That Ate The World
January 4,2005 -Venice, FL. 
by Daniel Hopsicker

-----snip

The troubling and sometimes criminal associations revealed in recent weeks about the shady pasts of the big election companies counting America’s vote can be seen to overlap with the cast of characters in the saga of the 9.11 terrorist hijackers associates while in America.

But what makes the Hilliard revelation particularly interesting are his associations with figures involved, not in 9.11, but in the current election intrigue.

Hilliard is in business, to cite one example, with Saudi billionaire arms dealer and international fugitive Adnan Khashoggi, whose name has now surfaced in connection with at least one, and possibly two, American election companies mired in controversy.

Much more and detail con't-
http://www.madcowprod.com/01042004.html
------------------

Did Bush's New Homeland Security Nominee Protect Terror-Linked Doctor from Prosecution?
 Bernard Kerik, Michael Chertoff... Who's Next?  Tony Soprano?
Daniel Hopsicker
January 12, 2005 - Venice, FL

Michael Chertoff, appointed by President Bush to head the Homeland Security Department, may have shielded from criminal prosecution a former client suspected by law enforcement of having funneled millions of dollars directly to Osama Bin Laden while in charge of the U.S. Government’s 9.11 investigation.

Egyptian-born Dr. Magdy el-Amir, a prominent New Jersey neurologist, was at the center of terrorist intrigue in Jersey City.

-El-Amir gave money to a conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman.

-His brother in Cairo was caught on tape attempting to buy weapons from an American undercover agent for Islamic militant groups.

-Before being arrested in a terrorist deal involving oil and heroin for guns and training, arms smuggler Diaa Mohsen was paid at least $5,000 by one of Dr. el Amir's companies, NBC’s Dateline reported.

And his HMO was suspected by law enforcement of being used to funnel money directly to Osama bin laden.  


Wire Transfers to "Unknown Parties"

Chertoff’s client "caused more than $5.7 million to be paid by wire transfers to unknown parties," said the lawsuit filed shortly before the state took over his failing HMO. News accounts about el-Amir’s legal difficulties contain unanswered questions about undue political influence and its effect on national security.
For example, how did el-Amir, who only the month before had been granted a state license to operate an HMO, finagle a lucrative contract from the state of New Jersey in 1995?

“Why was this doctor allowed to start a health plan?” asked the October 25, 1999 issue of the medical trade journal Medical Economics.

“How could this medical entrepreneur, who had no experience running a managed-care or health insurance company, receive a license for an HMO that now provides care to 44,000 of New Jersey's most vulnerable citizens?" asked The Bergen Record. “Moreover, how could the state pay such a novice $ 6 million a month in taxpayers money to take on such a responsibility?”

Why did Michael Chertoff even take the case? 


Skimming for Osama in New Jersey

Con't-
http://www.madcowprod.com/01122004.html

[Twist_U_Up]

8. This Guy Chertoff............

needs to be looked into........He looks like he belongs on the Bush Cartel and now there are shady dealings in his past.

This rat needs to be exposed

[DemReadingDU]

6. Here is an old thread about Madsen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x263583

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FogerRox]

13. I ran into some of this recently too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1513797&mesg_id=1513797&page=

[Alizaryn]

16. WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please show me the link between

Tod Rapp/Triad GSI and the other Triads. I have looked long and hard and cannot find a link. Seriously, where is the link between them?

Unfortunately for Todd and the younger Rapp, Michael, they weren't good at covering up any of this. Or Triad's history with oil and the Opus Dei movement.

"FEC v. TRIAD MANAGEMENT SERVICES (02CV1237)
On June 21, 2002, the Commission asked the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia to find that Triad Management Services, Triad Management Services, Inc., (collectively Triad) and Carolyn Malenick violated the Federal Election Campaign Act (Act) during the 1996 federal election cycle.

[AntiFascist]

18. Is this the connection?

It would seem that if Koch Oil Industries owns a large portion of Triad GSI (the election system company), that would establish the mysterious connection, no?

[harmonyguy]

23. That's a mighty big IF....

....however it would appear that much of what keeps getting regurgitated in this whole ongoing Cybernet/Triad fable, is a lot of speculation, with rather nebulous unproven connections.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that the alleged connections don't exist, just that so far I've yet to see any evidence of them - in spite of the volume of words being posted.

I'm also not suggesting that people not research the possibilities - hey, maybe someone will find something, but IF someone has any real evidence of any of these supposed connections, I wish that they'd post it for all to see.

Just because two businesses in different states have one word the same in their business name, doesn't prove an ownership connection - it only proves that they have one word the same in their business name.

Your mileage may vary.
HG

[AntiFascist]

25. Since there is no SEC info on Triad GSI...

I assume it is private, and for that info. I have to defer to the agents. My purpose in the original post was to provide the latest info. on the state of the Madsen investigation, which I assume is an important part of the overall picture. I always label these posts "Madsen:...." so if you're not interested or tired of hearing about it then you don't need to open the thread. I feel that there must be something else driving the interest of Conyers et.al. other than exit polls and circumstantial evidence.

[Alizaryn]

24. I only see a relationship between Triad Management and

Koch not Triad GSI. IF someone could show me where they (Triad management and Triad GSI connect I'd understand.

"The recent Oregon case isn't the first time that Koch-backed organization has been accused of playing fast and loose with campaign finance laws.

In 1997, the Kochs were investigated by the Democratic staff on the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs for their alleged funding of so-called "issue ads" during elections the previous year.

The investigation involved a for-profit corporation called Triad Management Inc., which was owned by Carolyn Malenick, a Republican fundraiser."

[AntiFascist]

26. Triad Systems also seems to be important....

If you search under the SEC info. (objects) you'll see Khashoggi. That's all I'm supposed to say for now.

[Alizaryn]

43. Important yeah but its not a tie to Triad GSI

[luaptifer]

17. interested in triad, cybernet, khashoggi?

a couple of lessons to get started:

lesson 1

lesson 0.5

trolling for khashoggi?

[AntiFascist]

19. And I thought you folks were supporting Madsen's work? nt

[Zan_of_Texas]

22. This is really old.

Madsen himself debunked the $29 million check. He has written several articles, and is still working on stuff.

I don't know why anyone is trying to drag us through that Triad this, Triad that stuff again. If you can link the various Triads, do so. If not, quit bringing it up.

Triad Governmental Services Inc. of Xenia, Ohio is the tabulation system for nearly half of Ohio's counties. Any other Triads have to be proven to have some connection that is relevant. Knock yerself out.

[luaptifer]

30. antifascist, i'm happy with whatever madsen publishes that's real

and/or documented.

but you're doing exactly what KOTJ wants you to do, think that he really works as a right hand of Madsen. from what i've gathered, that's BS.

KOTJ aka SO makes leaps of faith that would destroy madsen's work if he counted on KOTJ.

[AntiFascist]

31. I know that SO is independent of Madsen....

I prefer to think of it this way, there are groups of people jealously working on the next story that's "worse than Watergate." Is it true that there's a group of you working for John Dean and that you're constantly trying to beat us up?

I know the direction that SO is pursuing and I know that he's working very hard in that direction. I've learned a hell of a lot about what may be driving the Bush administration just by monitoring his work and helping to research surrounding issues, even if there is the occaisional "leap of faith."

[luaptifer]

33. antifascist, i'll explain to you why SO et al ever got on my radar screen

and let you decide if that seems reasonable.

actually, i'll try to keep it short as you imply that you work with this/these guys you must be familiar with some of the story already.

Is it true that there's a group of you working for John Dean and that you're constantly trying to beat us up?

<snip>

even if there is the occaisional "leap of faith."

the last phrase sums it up. make the equation between such a leap of faith and if you filled the blank, instead, with 'forged AWOL document'.

now, remind yourself of what you can recall about Dan Rather's report on Bush's AWOL story. how does that differ from what the rest of america remembers?

that will answer your question as to whether those of us keeping our eye on a persistent disinformer have a good motivation at heart or not.

then go back and look at the supposed evidence linking cybernet group to the wider conspiracy. every single one of the supposed validations of this link by your guys fell apart under scrutiny. unless different facts have emerged in the meantime, with cybernet group under that part of that story, the foundation for anything larger is broken.

consider what would happen to a madsen story founded on a cybernet group link to accenture that all of the sudden, was non-existent when scrutinized.

i realize you're trying to keep this on a good-will basis and so i will do the same. thanks.

update:
and on THIS forum, we all remember that Rather's story had meat to it. who got inaugurated yesterday?

[AntiFascist]

40. I understand your concern....

In the process of investigating we propose all kinds of hypotheses, determine if there is a broader theory that they fit into to see if they are worth pursuing, and then dig up facts and source material to support any conclusions. Of course any final report must be well supported by facts. This is why I HAVEN'T reported anything dug up by SO while it is still being investigated.

[Moderator]

21. KingoftheJungle

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.


DU Moderator

[catgirl]

28. Wasn't this a misinformation freep message a while ago?

I'm pretty sure this was a sham "investigaion" news item. There
were postings telling of supposed Madsen pass-it-on news,
which turned out to be freeper posts.

[AntiFascist]

29. What are you referring to?

Are you saying Madsen's investigation is a sham freeper investigation? Everything I've seen seems to indicate that Madsen's evidence is being well received. What has been criticized are some of the conclusions he has drawn himself in past stories.

[luaptifer]

35. catgirl's remembering a similar debunking i participated in

of a similar post by your guys.

just to be clear, it's NOT THE WORK OF MADSEN i've done anything to debunk. it's the crappola that KOTJ aka SO is trying make people here believe plays any role in Madsen's work that i've contributed to validating or invalidating.

that's what Bozos has been all about. it was his first making the point on BBV that led ME to try and figure out what your guys were claiming about cybernet group. and the claims your guys made over several weeks fell apart each time i tried to establish the link that they claimed existed: that link never showed up.

that's why KOTJ aka SO remains on my radar screen. he's got you believing he's working for/with Madsen. so anything Madsen reports will be suspect because KOTJ aka SO has been conditioning everyone here, for weeks, to believe KOTJ aka SO works with Madsen.

there's the equivelant of the planted 'forged memo' of 'Rathergate' fame. you guys BELIEVE KOTJ aka SO works with Madsen cause noone persistently calls KOTJ aka SO's BS into question here. bozos DID til he got tombstoned. so now, a debunking of KOTJ aka SO stands in the minds of DUers as a debunking of Madsen. they are not one and the same despite KOTJ aka SO's efforts.

[catgirl]

36. No, I'm not talking about Madsen

I'm talking about certain posters who SAY the info is
from Madsen, but it's a revised version of Madsens
to throw people off. I'm sure this was established a
few weeks ago. I'm positive in fact.

[luaptifer]

37. catgirl, my apologies for presuming to speak in your stead

i thought you were referring to an exchange we had...kinda fuzzy now but in any case, sorry!

[AntiFascist]

38. I would be interested if you can provide a link....

I have occaisionally been passing on Madsen info. via jamboi, which is also posted at wmadsen.blogspot.com and jamboi.dailykos.com Outside of this, I don't know about anything else claiming to be Madsen's work.

[luaptifer]

39. antifascist, will be back in a bit but link to ??

what exactly? if you follow my link 'trolling for khashoggi' it will show you KOTJ aka SO's trolling game at BBV but i assume that you've read that as of earlier today?

if you can be more specific, i may be able to provide links. or copies of a few other things. but my antagonism of the KOTJ aka SO farce on a few particular issues has been heated at times so a number of our interactions have been deleted by admins. i've recovered a few of them from my cache directory so might be able to provide stuff there.

oh, here's a recent summary of the night i debunked KOTJ aka SO's claim that i am a neoCON illuminati which also serves to demonstrate the incompetent research/analytic ability of that guy:

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/74/2410.html?1106286588

and btw, i do NOT equate jamboi and SO, i believe bozos would say the same thing. i think jamboi actually DOES have a connection to Madsen and i hope he's NOT forwarding, without fact-checking, SO's stuff.

...which makes one last point: i don't claim that EVERYTHING KOTJ aka SO presents is farce. but he persists in claiming SOME assertions that have never been validated despite scrutiny or have been debunked. so i want to be clear on that issue. if it's a key link like cybernet to the rest of the computing world, however, that's very important.

[AntiFascist]

41. I was responding to CatGirl, I'm familiar with most of your posts....

I'd like to know who might be spreading disinformation about Madsen.

As for SO, we have been working in a group and anytime we see something questionable, we question him on it.

I'm glad to hear you're not a neocon illuminatus, they seem dangerous.

If you search through the various Triad companies, there seem to be a confusing tangle of Triad companies, which is one clue in and of itself. We (or at least I) are trying to get to the bottom of the connection(s).

[luaptifer]

45. antifascist, i gather that my coffee refill was due before i'd responded

to both of you! sorry for jumping in there too!

in fact, i'm still very interested in the triad story and, though unlikely to see it happen, i'd be fascinated if someone could verfiably extend it more deeply. how many here doubt the CONs were not motivated enough to steal another election?! even more fascinated, if someone was able to tie in Judge Stephen A. Rapp to the Xenia family as it was Hon. Rapp who had to recuse himself from presiding over the case in Palm Beach County in Bu$h v. Gore for having said nasty things about wanting Dems to lost, etc. but i've not been able to make the connection.

The suits had all been bundled together and by random assignment were sent to a judge - and then another judge. And then another. And another.

Six circuit judges would end up disqualifying themselves from hearing the lawsuits over the ballot and the recounts.

Palm Beach Circuit Judge Stephen Rapp reluctantly passed the case after two lawyers complained they heard the judge, a registered Republican, making disparaging comments about Hillary Clinton and referring to voters who were confused by the butterfly ballot as "stupid." Rapp denied making those remarks but stepped aside, as is the custom for judges accused of bias.

How Al Gore Lost the Presidency

that aside, the khashoggi connection is intriguing cause he sure fits the bu$h clan-affinity profile in my book. i've some word of mouth implication of the speculative connection and madcowprod notes such a possibility. but i've not seen a hard link yet, only speculation.

the problem with your guys of whom i've had experience has been that, for each grand conspiracy they've tried to propagate, at least one of such possibilities always seems to migrate to the certainty column under treatment by the likes of activisms/auditors/blog vote/SO/KOTJ . if you look in the current thread of posts besides my own, you see at least a few others seeking that link KOTJ indicates is certain by his verbiage. i've seen at least one or two of those folks challenging KOTJ to provide it before, in other threads, and he didn't.

so the pattern of telling the grand conspiracy with that undermining memogate trojan horse hidden inside is put into play once more by your guys. how many times can this happen before one must decide it's no longer accidental or occasional leap of faith but deliberate manipulation?!

THAT's why they stay on my radar screen, it's a pattern that they assert as fact what has either only been speculated or when put to a challenge, they a) don't back it up but continue to repeat it or b) the 'evidentiary' linkage doesn't make their claim.

if you guys can effectively police yourselves before laying this stuff out in 'official documents' others wouldn't have to call your motives and credibility into question by begging for facts not provided.

but we got fukked very badly by 'memogate' and i, for one, will not allow that to happen again if i can help it.

if you have any say over these 'official documents' they lay out, i'd request that you make sure for each conceptual link from one company/person/organization to the next that makes a conspiracy, ensure there's a documenting link or that it's labelled in bold-face as 'our speculation'. don't indicate certainty that does not exist. your collaborators don't seem to get this part.

really, since you are on the inside, it's YOUR reputation at stake as well. from what i can see, you seem genuine in not wanting madsen or the other investigators willing to push the edge to be undermined. please ensure it's not your guys that blow it by policing them.

chasing farce down is not something i REALLY want to do but someone's gotta. please force stringency on these guys!!!

and thanks for willingness to discuss the problem in civil fashion!

[AntiFascist]

46. I understand and I appreciate your willingness to discuss this civilly...

as well. I really can't control what Madsen or KOTJ write or post on the various boards or blogs, nor would I want someone controlling what I post. All I can try for is that when I post something original (not cut and paste as I did above) I will strive to show precise sources and documentation for any link, unless it is specifically labelled as speculative. I have to admit that I have a hard enough time keeping up to speed on what gets discussed internally, much less what is getting posted externally.

I think it is important to have material vetted before discussing it in a more formal setting. In fact, that was part of my purpose above.

I agree that understanding how the Rapp family has operated is important (more on this later).

I suppose that there is always the danger of coming across planted documents. The reputation of the source of the docs, and of those who are responsible for due diligence is what is at stake.

[luaptifer]

48. antifascist, so do i take it correctly that you

understand KOTJ as an insider to Madsen's efforts?! i understand he's OUTside of the madsen circle feeding your guys' stuff to madsen.

so that's why i figure, if your guys can be self-policing, madsen won't be misled by stuff you all generate. thus, it was not madsen's stuff to which i suggested you apply rigorous fact-checking but the stuff that you guys feed into his info-hopper and present to the wider activist community.

that's the other point i've not focussed on but i know of a number of people who've been misled and so wasted alot of time operating on the basis of the 'official documents' these guys put out standing as 'fact'. the wild goose chase is a real pisser after one realizes they've been had.

so, i was not saying you fact-check madsen's work since i don't understand you all to have that access. it was SO (who clalims to be KOTJ, remember) and KOTJ's stuff i figure you guys can validate.

[AntiFascist]

50. My understanding is that....

SO was being sarcastic when he said he is the same as KOTJ in the remark "if it pleases you" or something to that effect. At least we treat them as two separate people. (I was confused by this as well, until this morning.)

Madsen is kept well informed of everything that is discussed, but again I don't have control of what goes into the "info hopper."

[KingoftheJungle]

44. my apologies again (copyright...d'oh!)

[rdmccur]

32. Check this out!

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushies.htm

[AntiFascist]

47. Interesting....

this would suggest the forced Hegelian aspect happening above Bush & Co.

[rdmccur]

49. Please explain

what you mean by the "forced Hegelian aspect".

[AntiFascist]

51. If you do a search on.....

Bilderberg Group you should run across a lot of evidence or at least conspiracy theory that suggests these people are calling the shots on behalf of the "New World Order." It is argued that they have offices setup in Geneva, Switzerland where they run the world 24/7.

What I call "forced Hegelian aspect" may also be called Union of Opposing Principles in certain Masonic circles. The BBC documentary series "Power of Nightmares" is a good introduction to this concept. There's also the ancient oriental principle of "out of chaos comes opportunity," or something to that effect. This may be related to "may you live in interesting times."

[rdmccur]

34. Google "Glen Yeadon"

and see what comes up!

Does anyone know anything about this person?

[nashville_brook]

52. this seems to "go along" with this thread -- i love this page:

Roadmap of Hell -- guide to right-wing scammers and dirty tricksters


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1154535

[rdmccur]

42. Kick!