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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 09:57 PM
Original message
The VELVET REVOLUTION has begun!
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 09:58 PM by BradBlog
The Velvet Revolution Begins...
A New Home for the New American Patriot!
It's been a long time coming...

It was Velvet Revolutions that so effectively overturned despotic regimes through peaceful civil disobedience in places like the former Soviet Union, East Germany, Czchekoslovakia, Poland, South Africa, and of course...most recently...Ukraine.

In all of those places, the citizenry rose up to take matters into their own hands to demand that their governments be held responsible. Now it is our turn to learn from those countries what it really means to have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people!

Grab your pitchfork and light your torches! The Velvet Revolution has begun...

More info: http://www.VelvetRevolution.us
Media contact & Orgs interested in coming onboard as Affiliates: Info@velvetrevolution.us

Without You, We're Nothing...

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KingoftheJungle Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. 'bout time
Great idea brad, and this will only snowball from here. Our time will come and boy will it be sweet.
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Salomonity Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. we've lost
Once people on the left start talking about overthrowing the government,the rest of the country stops listening not only to them, but to the whole democratic party.

This is the sort of thing I'd like to blame freepers for--painting the Democratic party as a gang of traitors, bent on overthrowing the president because they dislike him. Now that the congressional challenge to the electoral vote is over, there is no legal way to stop Bush from taking office.

The jig is up, and any diehards still trying to contest the election are going to result in the whole party being demonized.

Dissent may be patriotic, but overthrowing the government isn't. It's very dangerous to start talking about overthrowing the constitution merely because you don't like the current occupant of the whitehouse.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. We are bigger than the democratic party
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KingoftheJungle Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Speak for yourself, I'll never give up
I firmly believe this entire administration, and quite possibly a number of senators and congressman, were put there fraudulantly TWICE. Not only are they not our true government, but they have used their position to wreck unimaginable havok on our rights, our economy, and our reputation throughout the world (oh and lets not forget the hundreds of thousands dead Iraqis and GIs through an illegal war). Everything about this administration is illegal and I will stop at nothing to overthrow it by any means necessary, so you can take your limp dick attitude (pardon the french) back home and wait for 2006 and 2008 to be stolen under your nose as far as I'm concerned.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Eeeeew King of the Jungle...you need to be careful what you post...last I
heard conspiracy to "overthrow" a big time crime...."If you can't do the time don't do the crime."
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KingoftheJungle Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Impeachment is not illegally overthrowing a government
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 11:05 PM by KingoftheJungle
That is what I am ultimately after, even though I know damn well it will never happen as long as fraudulent * cronies occupy the majority of the house. Exposing the crimes of this administration and their cronies is essential for democracy to ever exist again in this country. If that is considered a crime then lock me up, but until then I will continue to devote my time to exposing this government for what it really is before they start a nuclear holocaust. In the meantime, this site will provide a collective voice to pressure lawmakers to reform voting in this country and MAYBE, just maybe, we can take back some house and senate seats (or, god forbid, catch bush's hand in the honeypot next time he tries to steal it).
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Is this a new impeachment effort? I didn't recall an end to the one
that started in 2000.
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Salomonity Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. So you don't really mean "any means necessary"
Previously you said "I will stop at nothing to overthrow by any means necessary". That doesn't sound like a call to impeachment, that sounds like a call to a coup d'etat or an assassination.

It's been 40 years since we had a president murdered in office, but people keep trying. It's not something to speak of lightly, and it's worth being very careful to avoid implying it.

How will you feel if, in 2009, Republicans are saying they'll "stop at nothing" and use "any means necessary" to remove President Dean?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. WTF are you talking about?!!!?? Did you READ the site?
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 11:01 PM by troubleinwinter
Can you READ? It says it is about:

"A U.S. Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing The Right to Vote! • Voter-verified, auditable paper trails must be mandatory in every polling place in America. • Elections officials must be non-partisan. • Private companies may not run our elections through secret, proprietary, uninspected and unsecure software. • Voter suppression, intimidation and gerrymandering of electoral districts for pure partisan gain must stop forever."
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. How could those goals be misinterpreted
as overthrowing the Constitution? The Constitution has many amendments, including the Bill of Rights.
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Salomonity Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. couldn't
When I posted the above, all the site had was a call to 'revolution'--So I interpreted the word in it's usual violent sense.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Okay, you're forgiven. :-)
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Welcome to DU. Now listen.
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 11:38 PM by Fly by night
The current administration is illegitimate. They were awarded their first term by a politicized Supreme Court, even though a full recount of the Florida votes in 2000 proved that they did not win the White House through the "consent of the governed."

This time, this regime did everything imaginable to lie about their opponents and their own record; to wrap themselves in the American flag while standing on a stack of bibles; to violate the separation between church and state; to appeal to our worst instincts (which included queer bashing); to depress voter registration and to destroy lawfully completed voter registration forms; to discourage, confuse, intimidate and disenfranchise voters; to disrupt the voting process in multiple ways on Election Day; to collude with voting machine vendors to manipulate the recording of votes (or to discard votes given to their opponent) to favor this regime.

And then, when they were still losing, this regime "flipped" the votes electronically in a number of key states at the 11th hour and manipulated (and then stonewalled access to) the exit polls to cover their tracks. AND THEN, when all of this still did not work, our homegrown evil-doers obstructed lawful recount efforts in every state which attempted to address the inequities and the illegal manipulation which had awarded this regime another term -- again without the "consent of the governed."

If there ever was a regime that needed to be overthrown, it is this bunch of Nazis posing as patriotic Christians. But a velvet revolution is what its name implies -- a revolution that will remain bloodless if we have anything to do with it, but which will have the same net effect. To shine a bright light on the vermin which now infest our national "house" and on their weasel-faced minions in the Congress, and to drive them from our midst. That won't take pitchforks. It will take unprecedented efforts to educate our fellow citizens through the artificial vacuum that has been created by the lock-down silence of our once-free press. It will take communicating effectively, swiftly and efficiently with our colleagues around the country through the still-unfettered medium of the internet. It will take identifying our allies (here and elsewhere) and separating ourselves from the vermin who keep trying to infest our assembly (here and elsewhere). It will take finding and holding on to the common ground that our country was founded on -- a belief in free and fair elections. It will take much more from those of us who are now giving what we believe is our all, and it will take a great deal more than distraction, disinterest and ignorance from the rest of us. But we will prevail.

As I type this, I am listening to the Martin Luther King biography play itself out on NPT in the next room. We have our models of strength, intelligence, fortitude, selfless morality and persistence -- in our history and in our midst. We are not the insurgents -- we are not the violators of our constitution and of our democratic traditions. We are the protectors of this land and of this democratic ideal -- and though we have been slow to wake, we will no longer rest nor be dismissed by derision or the advice of any newbies who say we should go slow or just "get over it".

Those fools who have now tried to fool us twice are now on notice that we won't be fooled again. And we are tired of suffering political pussies, fools or knaves quietly, or -- for that matter -- at all. Time for a little no-nonsense pest removal from within our body politic. Time to say "enough". Time to overthrow this four year old anti-democratic revolution by lawful means, and return (finally) to the rule of law.

So save your "go slowly" advice for someone else, won't you. Best for you to take your genteel self and go hide and watch while we get down to business, as we take our country back. It may not be quiet, it may even get messy sometimes, but it sure will be pretty. So go along now, hide and watch. Or take the cotton out of your ears and put it into your mouth. The Bush-Rove bad boys are about to get a patriotic ass-whuppin' And no one deserves it more, anywhere on God's still-green earth.
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Obviously KOTJ misunderstood the post
There's no misunderstanding yours though. It's meant
to be derogatory and it's offensive. Please don't speak for
everyone when you blast off like this. Most people here
wouldn't tell someone to go hide (although you ddn't
put it so nicely). A nice correction would be called for since
obviously KOTJ is on the same side. your response was
uncalled for.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Someone is confused (and condescending) here. And it's not me.
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 12:34 AM by Fly by night
If you can follow the dotted lines, you will see that my comments were not directed to KOTJ, but to Salomonity. And if you can follow the dotted lines, you'll see that my comments are in agreement with KOTJ, serioustan, troubleinwinter, BradBlog, Blue_In_AK, genieroze and Viva_La_Revolution -- all of whom had the same general reaction to Salomonity, who posted once and then fell silent. (Looks like "hit and run" to me -- a pretty recognizable tactic around here.) Some of the posters were much more blunt than me, but I am no less in agreement with them.

And where do you get the impression that I'm speaking for "everyone". That's a tactic for freepers -- I have never posted to represent anyone's opinion but my own, unless I was reporting elsewhere on the activities of our 500+ member strong new Gathering To Save Our Democracy group here in Tennessee that I am involved in organizing. And I said nothing in this post that I feel any need to modify or genteel-fy, for Salomonity or for you (whoever you are).

And who died and made you hall monitor? Read the other posters' comments here and see who among us is discussing the principles and not the personalities. (You appear to be the only one off-topic in the entire thread.) Your need to address me in a condescending and irrelevant manner is the sole distraction in this thread.

If you're still in a judgemental mood, feel free to visit these two other threads that I started recently and comment on them to your heart's desire.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=267768&mesg_id=267768
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x274772

Just don't tell me that my opinions aren't tidy enough for you. Because I'm not in a position to give you two quarters and suggest that you call someone who cares.

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KingoftheJungle Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. thanks for stickin up for me guys
but it isn't really necessary to continue with this back and forth arguing between ourselves. I know it is really easy to jump to your own defense on message boards (Lord knows my self control is severely lacking), but this kind of back and forth bickering is unconstructive and serves no benefitial purpose. Sometimes (well, MOST times) it is better to bite your tounge and let it slide rather than create animocity between your fellow teammates. I know I have a problem too, but let's all try to rise above it and work together for the greater good of cleaning up the * co garbage and the interests that benefited from it.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Understood, KOTJ. That was my first contact with a self-appointed
"hall monitor" on DU, and it didn't improve my mood this evening (or enlighten me) a bit. And I'm uninterested in any "back and forth" bickering. I was lectured to once by someone who had nothing to say about the topic itself, and I responded once. I am glad that I did visit the Velvet Revolution web-site and did read Salomonity's post and everyone else's before I responded. I am also glad that I was aware of who I was responding to/disagreeing with and who I was agreeing with. It is also telling that the only person who raised most of our backs (Salomonity) posted once and then went away. Again, a common tactic if the poster is not interested in dialogue.

Thanks, Brad, for getting the Velvet Revolution site up and running. Here's hoping we have a national conference on integrity in elections soon to expand the reach of this noble concept. I am gratified at how many people are as resolutely dedicated to overturning this illegitimate regime as I am. Peace, out.
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. FBN
I wasn't asking you to make concessions for what you said. I was pointing out your rudeness. Being condescending and hostile pushes people away. You just did it to me too.

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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Give it a rest, would you please, Miss Manners.
Do you have anything at all to say about the topic, or are you just being yourself tonight?

My interest in participating in DU is not to brush up on charm school, it is to engage in dialogue over issues. Once again, my post -- though longer than most -- was a lot less blunt in my criticism of Salomonity than others. BTW, I agree with the content and the tone of every statement that follows:

KOTJ: "... so you can take your limp dick attitude (pardon the french) back home and wait for 2006 and 2008 to be stolen under your nose as far as I'm concerned."

troubleinwinter: "WTF are you talking about?!!!?? Did you READ the site?"

genieroze: "overthrowing the constitution? as opposed to what, * burning it.?"

hootinholler: "It's about a fucking fair god-damned election. Pretty simple huh...?It's about a fucking fair god-damned election. Pretty simple huh? Got it? Good."

understandinglife: "You DEFINITELY 'Get It' Hoot!! Great response. My response to .... whomever that poster (Salomonity) is, was to hit the 'snooze' icon and send an alert to the DU moderators."

I'm not suggesting that you give every other one of these posters (or any other poster, for that matter) who spoke his/her mind here a dose of your insufferable self-rightousness. Please keep it to yourself. And if you ever get up on your high horse again, I'll use the "snooze" button for the first time on DU. Please find something relevant to say or say nothing at all. We're all big people here, and I was not offended by anything said on this thread by anyone but you and your irrelevant and prissy (and continuous) diatribe about "manners". Spare us all, 'eh?
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. FBN
Are you calling me a FREEPER? "Common tactic"? "Who died and made you a hall monitor"? I've seen you MANY times recently go off the handle. Like this is the first time. You said it yourself, your in a bad mood. Whatever, I will avoid your hosile derriere from now on.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Please re-read my earlier comments
My "common tactic" comment had nothing to do with you but was directed at Salomonity, who posted a provocative comment and then was heard from no more. Even understandinglife recognized Salomonity for what he/she appears to be (she/he appears the same to me too). But you're so focused on criticizing me tonight that you can't even seem to read straight.

You have posted three times on this thread. None of your posts addressed the topic or any issues raised by any poster. All three were personal attacks against me, even though the tone of my original post was no different (though certainly more long-winded) than the statements of other posters. Time to find the "snooze" button. Bye, bye, catperson.
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Salomonity Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. I'm here
This thread fell off my radar screen, I assumed it had lapsed. I see I was incorrect.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Dude, you just gave me an idea for a protest.
Thousands of people in front of the whitehouse with spotlights!

-Hoot
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KingoftheJungle Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. They'll probably use the PATRIOT act against us...
for trying to blind white house officials on the job

>]-0

^^^
Blinded W.O. smiley
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stirringstill Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. Careful
No laser pointers!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I was thinking more like 5M candlepower 12V spots.
With 1000 of those trained on a building, that's 5 Giga CP. That's a *lot* of light. A 5MCP light will cast a useful beam about a mile.

-Hoot

Off to listen to Supernatural
Hey Now, All you children, Turn your lights on...
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. I think you said it very well
and you said it with with passion. You put into words much of what I've been thinking and feeling.

I will be checking the VELVET REVOLUTION site on a regular basis.
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
49. Well said!
I'm ready for some patriotic ass-whuppin.
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In Truth We Trust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
52. Hoot!
my sentiments exactly. nicely done.
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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Perhaps you've misunderstood...
Please peruse the site, Salominity. VR is about *supporting* our Constitution! Not overthrowing it!

We have concerns that others seem to be deadset on doing just that...if this last election is any proof of that.

It was the *Constitution* that was used to raise the challenge to the Electoral College votes from Ohio.

It is the *Constitution* that needs to have an amendment for a Right to Vote (did you know you didn't have one?).

We are the people, and in favor of the government that was created by our forefathers...of the people, by the people, and for the people. And we are willing to defend it against all attacks both foreign and domestic.

We are hear to help you too do exactly that!

http://www.VelvetRevolution.us

Spread the word...
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Salomonity Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. glad to have that made claer
A previous poster was speaking of using "any means necessary", and declaring he'd "stop at nothing". That's not a call to amendment, that's incitement to assassination. When VR went online, they didn't make mention of an amendment.

Now that I see what they're really pushing, I'm much less nervous.
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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Good deal...
Actually, we *did* make mention of our call for a U.S. Constitutional Amendment for the Right to Vote from the get-go.

You may, however, have missed it. Glad you've seen it now, and I hope you'll jump in!

Brad
The VELVET REVOLUTION Begins...
http://www.VelvetRevolution.us
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. overthrowing the constitution? as opposed to what, * burning it.? n/t
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. I don't think you quite have it yet...
It's not about the party!

It's about a fucking fair god-damned election. Pretty simple huh?

I am officially no longer contesting any election. I am trying to find an organization that gets it. I want it investigated. I want it prosecuted. I want it fixed. Let the chips fall where they may.

Oh and did I mention my kids? It's for them too.

And btw,

It's about a fucking fair god-damned election. Pretty simple huh?

Got it? Good.

-Hoot
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. You DEFINITELY 'Get It' Hoot!! Great response. My response to ...
...whomever that poster is, was to hit the 'snooze' icon and send an alert to the DU moderators.

Each of us does what we need to do as we attempt to get the message to every one of our fellow citizens.

Message is simple: WE HAVE NO ELECTION.

Until any citizen can vote in an equivalent manner to any other citizen WE HAVE NO ELECTION -- meaning if you have to stand in line for 3 hours to vote then EVERY citizen stands in line for 3 hours.

Until every citizen KNOWS their vote was counted as intended then NO vote COUNTS.

Democracy is not a spectator activity. It is also not an activity that is served by anything other than EQUIVALENT participation in the franchise of democracy.

Those who attempt to distract, disrupt, de-focus those of us who will now defend our Constitution at any cost are simply doing two things:

1. They are telling us that their 'agenda' IS the destruction of our Constitution and the franchise of American democracy;

2. They are informing us of whatever puke tactic they happen to be using in their ever more desparate attempts to avoid our rath and the law.

In both cases, they are simply making it easier for us to crush their assault on 'We The People of The United States of America....' because knowledge is power and we know it and how to use it.

They will FAIL.

We Will in_DEED Prevail.

"Prove My Vote Counts, Now"
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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. Well..we got it, Hoot. Loud and clear...

We hear you. And the people who knocked down our democracy are gonna hear from all of us soon.

Hence http://www.VelvetRevolution.us

Jump in. Feet first.

Got ideas? Ways that we can band together and help? Share them at VR, and we'll do everything we can to support!

Brad
The BRAD BLOG
http://www.BradBlog.com
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
59. BradBlog - I'll go to VR and share the following idea, but wanted to
also post it here. I would like to see a group/site start posting information about any/all attacks on our 'heroes' and how we can quickly and dramatically respond. The systems for responding at MoveOn, Progressive Democrats, and Sojourners are a good model. The Dems are cowed because the media and the conservative quick response groups beat them mercilessly if they dare to speak out against *. Right now the people on the top of my list who need our support include Boxer, Conyers, Tubbs-Jones, Jackson. Would this fit your mission?

Also, another step I would like to see taken is to join progressive groups together so that people who participate in different groups - MoveOn, PDA, Democracy for America, TrueMajority, Human Rights, United for Peace & Justice, National Resource Defense Council - will ALL receive the most important messages. We ARE the majority. The members of MoveOn outnumber the membership of the Christian Coalition at its peak. Combined - social justice, civil rights, peace, environmental, democratic renewal groups - have tremendous power. We must unite and act in unison during crises.

:kick:
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denese Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
39. KICK!
Yes, I get it! A fair election, it's not too much to ask for.
We're not asking for any new rules or laws, let's just follow the ones we have in place.
Seems simple, really.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. Hi denese!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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denese Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Thank you!
I must say it is a much warmer welcome than some I have received :-)
It is really good to be here.
denese
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tngledwebb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. But what about our past history?
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 07:03 AM by tngledwebb
The USA wouldn't be here at all, if it wasn't for for an illegal (and raher violent) revolutionary war, as you may have read. Now, as a pacifist I only advocate peaceful change, however long it takes, but never forget how this country began in the first place.

And the post itself speaks of a 'velvet revolution', ie peaceful change.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
55. The only thing we've lost is the delusion that we have a democracy.
With BushCons owning the secret, proprietary source code that runs all the electronic vote tabulation machines in the country, as well as many individual voting machines, with no paper trail, the election was a fraud going in. It was almost entirely, if not entirely, non-transparent--with the real result decipherable from strong inferential evidence (Kerry won), but due to the deliberate non-transparency set up by the BushCons in Congress, and with many Democratic leaders silent or complicit (or suicidal, it's hard to know which), it is impossible to obtain what people talk of as "absolute proof."

A non-transparent election IS a fraudulent election. You don't have to "prove" anything more. It is inherently invalid.

Prove to me that Bush "won." Where are the numbers? Where did you get them from? How were they verified? The whole thing is a house of cards, or even less, a house of mere electrons.

There is NO proof that Bush won--and a lot of inferential proof (non-partisan exit polls and much other data) that Kerry won. Those are the facts.

And what we have now is an illegitimate government, agreed to by people with the power to enforce it--and not by "consent of the people"--most of them BushCons or BushCon travelers. (Congress, judges, the war profiteering media, and, unfortunately many Democrats including the candidate.)

We really shouldn't fool ourselves about this--whatever we may decide can be done about it. We are ruled by a junta. WE HAVE NO POWER in any conventional sense. They have taken away our right to vote. Our official leaders are now chosen behind a curtain, in cascades of electrons controlled by secret source code, and where only Bush "Pioneers" are allowed to go.

So, this is not a matter of "the jig is up" or the "diehards still trying to contest the election." This is not a matter of "losing" an election. People could get over that. It is a matter of losing our DEMOCRACY.

Personally, I think we have one chance to get back our right to vote--through local action on state and county election rules to re-institute paper ballots and hand counts, or at least to get some reasonable controls over the electronic voting machines.

I think this is doable. I think most people would agree that elections should be fair and transparent. We still have the power to influence local officials--but we may not have it for long (if the Democrats join with the BushCons to take away states rights over election rules--which would be a disaster in my opinion, no matter how bad certain states have been).

But Congress is NOT going to help. The BushCons have taken away our right to vote, and they are not going to give it back. Period. And the Democrats have no power to change this (--if they even want to; remember they ALLOWED this election system to be put in place, which has disenfranchised us all). (Some fought it, but not that many. No one spoke out loudly, as they should have. They SHOULD HAVE screamed bloody murder about things like BushCons owning the tabulation source code as "proprietary." It's absurd!)

As for "overturning" the Constitution, we have a perfect right to do so. It is OUR document (not Bush's, not Kerry's, not the Supreme Court's or anybody else's). Whoever can amend the Constitition can "overturn" it. We have that power--albeit through certain stated processes (state legislatures, Congress). But theoretically we could hold a Consitutional Convention tomorrow and re-write the whole thing from scratch. In fact, Jefferson recommended that this happen every 20 years or so. (What he said was, there ought to be a "revolution" every 20 years or so.)

It is by no means a "sacred" document. It's not the "word of God." Humans wrote it. Humans can amend and totally re-write it. It's not a can of worms that I would particularly like to open, at present, with a BushCon junta in power. But that underpinning of "consent of the people" is quite real. It was the basis for the American Revolution in the first place.

"There is no legal way to stop Bush from taking office." Nor was there any legal way for the Colonists to unseat George III, or deny him soverignty over their lands and persons. They appealed to a higher law. They very carefully notified all the capitols of the world. And they were willing to take arms to enforce the higher law that gave them the RIGHT to throw off King George's rule.

But that would be a very foolish and probably fruitless course today. We are not an isolated wilderness far from the seat of power. The powers that oppress us have all the weapons of mass destruction at their disposal, that they could wish for, all paid for by us, to crush any such rebellion.

But it is hardly unseemly to talk about it. We are a revolutionary country. The principle of armed rebellion against oppressive powers was our founding principle!

I don't care who among "the rest of the country" would "stop listening" to leftists who were discussing our founding principle AND stop listening to "the whole democratic party." Who cares?

Revolutions, both bloody and sweet, are always started by a few passionate people who couldn't give a crap what conventional wisdom says. They have the ideas, the inspiration, others follow (or not).

We have, too, in this situation, a Left consisting probably of a vast majority of pacifists or near pacifists--who have learned lessons from several wise people in our own age, and in some cases from a lot of experience, and a lot of reading and knowledge of history. Violence breeds violence is the rule for most historical revolutions. A violent elite is replaced by a violent mob which then develops its own violent elite.

It was Gandhi's brilliance--and later Martin Luther King's and Nelson Mandela's--to avoid any such cycle of violence, by starting out with peaceful intentions and sticking with them through all. Their goals were justice and transformation, not acquisition and power over others. And all were brilliantly successful revolutions.

Why do you suppose the BushCons went to such trouble to suppress black votes in this and in the last "election"? Because black votes are a thing of value, achieved with suffering in a long struggle, and black voters therefore don't cast their vote lightly and are not easily fooled. Martin Luther King's work lives on!

So, informed by these recent struggles, and the brilliant folk who have shown the way, non-violence is obviously the path we should take. We don't want to destroy persons or property, or even make others feel insecure. We want to transform our society so that all are agreed as to what justice is, and can achieve it together. Anything less would not be worth having.

Hotheads and those who believe in justice through fire arms can go elsewhere and fight that battle on their own, if that's what they're going to do. Few if any will follow them. It is a suicidal path in the present circumstance.

Once again, I think it's very important to be clear. It is all right to say that, in justice, Bush should not be in the White House, and to say it repeatedly. That doesn't mean you would go there and physically throw him out (at your very great peril). It doesn't mean you would harm anyone to assert your opinion. It merely means that that is what you believe. And why shouldn't we say what we believe to be the truth?

For politics' sake? Bah! That is not a good reason to suppress such a profound truth as this one, if this is what you believe: that Bush doesn't belong there, and is exercising illegitimate authority, due to the invalidity and non-transparency of the so-called election.

If you silence or bend a fundamental belief like this, you risk hypocrisy. And we've had quite enough of that in politics already, particularly from the Democratic leaders.

There may be times to be quiet--say, if life or limb is threatened, or that of others. We must always choose our ground. But if someone has chosen their ground, and their ground is here, in DU, and they are speaking the truth, or trying to do so, we ought to respect that.

We are leaders here, not followers. We are the passionate ones. We are the revolutionaries who may lead our country onto a better path, or who may fail. We want to find that good path and shine a light on it for others. We may not yet know what or where it is; we are explorers.

And so we see things others don't see. And we may go to the edge, to try to penetrate the B.S. that bombards all us constantly from official sources. We try to see these things clearly and interpret them. This may set us apart, and make others upset.

That's my hit on what DU is all about. It is not a place to put labels on dissenters. "Too radical." "Will alienate Democrats, or freepers." "Tinfoil hat." Those labels are meaningless here, in the unexplored terrority of America's once and future democracy.














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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Marvelous post
Magnificent, even. You ought to start a thread for it. Really.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
56. I think you're confused
Velvetrevolution does not talk about overthrowing the constitution. As far as overthrowing the government is concerned, there is nothing unpatriotic about trying to get rid of those in office by exposing criminal misdeeds and letting justice take its course -- as in Watergate. And this election fraud is a whole lot worse than Watergate.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
9.  Thank you BradBlog and Justice through Music!
Great Site! I'm all signed up and it looks like you have a few other DU'ers too!
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for the link n/t
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Great site! Way too much info for this late at night
I'll stroll through it at my leisure tomorrow. Way to go!
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starmaker Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick
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zimba Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks. Am now registered and ready for action
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. kick
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. See? She gets it.
Fancy schmancy kick

-Hoot
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SmileMaker Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
37. Great idea, hard to read the small text on dark background
I think that image is important. If people are turned off because they can't read your intro text they might dismiss the great idea. I hope you'll do something about the text size/brightness/contrast of text on a dark background. We need all kinds of readers to join the Velvet Revolution. Thanks!
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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #37
50. Thanks SmileMaker...
We've got many such updates and tweaks to the system coming as we go. Thanks for the input. We'll try to take care of the problem as soon as possible!

Brad
Join the VELVET REVOLUTION!
Without you...we're nothing...
http://www.VelvetRevolution.us
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
38. Afternoon kick
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
40. The Velvet Revolution was just for show
The controlling regimes allowed it to happen because the system was bankrupt.
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raipoli Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
41. Thank VR for the Revolution
It is great to have some hope for leadership in the revolution -- we all saw what an organized opposition could do in Ukraine so it is nice to see it here in the USA. Everyone should support VR and post the logo everywhere. This could be the most powerful org in the country in a few months. Get on board, the ride will be fun.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Kick for Velvet! n/t
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
48. This is terrific! Thank you Brad for getting this together!
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Great site...Bookmarked here will refer to it often. n/t
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