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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:17 PM
Original message
Just listening to the House of Representative debate
It is being re-run on C-span 2. The frickin' republicans REFUSE to get it. This should infuriate Americans. I watched them do the same thing on Monday with the ethics rules. I thought there were at least a few Republicans that had an honest bone in their body. So far, none of them have come forward. Dems speak of rights and Red White and Blue. Repubs speak of doing this during regular business hours. How ridiculous is that. The contrast is clear. sorry if this was already discussed. I just find it such a stark example of what is wrong with this country right now!
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. So will more and more of us in time - this energized a base.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Yes, it certainly has energized me. I need to find my place within this
movement. I have been going too many directions. I am now sure I need to concentrate on election reform as the issue.
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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. They couldn't argue with the facts
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 10:21 PM by Goldeneye
One pub even tried to throw in the fear factor....this contest of the votes is making us unsafe...terrorists will think we're weak. Hide everyone the terrorists are coming! Hide! AHHHHHHHH!


The only time I enjoyed hearing a repub. speak...because it was just so freakin absurd...people are gonna figure it out...I hope...:scared: :scared:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. What killed me
was listening to all of them read newspaper editorials! They want us to believe the media is liberally biased, but they quote editorials when it suits them.

Despicable assholes.
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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. about that liberal media bias
We need to push the fairness doctrine being reinstated, since the pubs think there is a liberal bias, they should be pretty suportive.
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Agree. Oh, and Jesse Jackson Jr. just kicked major ass!
He's an excellent speaker and framed the issue wonderfully.
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Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I agree.
He probably made the best speech anyone made in either chamber.
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree. The repubs were so mean and vicious today
I couldn't believe all of the things they were saying about the Dems. The Dems on the other hand were polite and never said a mean thing about the repubs. I couldn't stand to hear any one of them speak.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Not only were they polite, they begged the Republicans to
debate the issue like men and women of honor instead of wimping out and calling AMERICAN CITIZENS childish names. What a sickening show of aristocratic arrogance!
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. Unions had positive view of debate
Electorial Debate
Summary of Electorial Debate-Union view on "What Election Challenge Means"


MODS - this is posted with permission of Swanson and ILCA

What Election Challenge Means

By David Swanson, ILCA -International Labor Communications Association, AFL-CIO / CLC

Thirty-three Members of the US House of Representatives, and one all-important Senator -- one more than four years ago -- voted not to accept Ohio's 20 electoral votes for George Bush. The votes were 33 to 260 and 1 to 72. The protesters lost. What does it mean?

First, it's worth noting that more than one Senator took action. Barbara Boxer announced her intention to challenge the election on Thursday morning. By midday Senators Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, and Barak Obama had let it be known that they would support Boxer. During the discussion in the Senate, Richard Durbin, Debbie Stabenow, Edward Kennedy, Ron Wyden, Frank Lautenberg, and Tom Harkin joined the others in speaking in support of Boxer's challenge. And in the House, numerous members spoke, one after another, until the time was up, and the number voting for the challenge jumped to 33 from the 8 that had been known early in the day.

Yet, those looking for as strong as possible a challenge were disappointed. Plenty of Democrats voted No, including Senators who had spoken in support. And one Democratic Senator, Mark Dayton, actually rose and spoke against the challenge. Several Senators and Congress Members spoke in support of the challenge but said they were not questioning Bush's victory. (The election system is broken, but the election system worked -- a notion that makes political sense to some if logical sense to few.) Not a single Republican joined the Democrats in either chamber. The certification of the vote was not stopped. Nothing was changed.

Or was it? I would suggest that the following things have been changed:

1. The topic of election fraud has been forced into the corporate media. Reporters wanting to write about it now have a "hook." They can report on it now in the way they could have two months ago if Senator John Kerry hadn't crawled under his bed to hide. Sure, much of the media today treated the story as one of "political theater" and "grandstanding Democrats," but until now the story had not been there at all.

http://ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&...

Now the Democrats have the opportunity to explain why fighting for Democracy is the only decent thing to do, even when success seems unlikely.

2. We now have solid evidence that a political party can challenge a stolen election without causing national trauma of the sort Kerry tried to protect us from by conceding. Most Americans are not now in agony over the tensions felt on January 6th in Congress.

3. We have demonstrated that a grassroots movement of minorities and progressives can mobilize around an issue completely blacked out of the media and move US Senators to act. The reason Barbara Boxer stood tall today, while not even Paul Wellstone would do so four years ago, is that four years ago there was no massive grassroots lobbying effort. Nobody was holding "Boxer Rebellion" demonstrations at Boxer's offices four years ago. There were no hearings and bus rides, telephone and fax campaigns, nothing like what we've seen for the past two months. We also lacked the leadership that Congressman John Conyers has shown, but Conyers will be the first to say he couldn't have done this without a movement behind him. The rally Thursday morning across from the White House (report and photos here:

http://ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&...

was a celebration of success against the odds, of accomplishment in the face of scorn and ridicule with only justice and determination to keep people going. There will be momentum coming out of this for supporters of democracy all over this country.

4. A coalition has begun to form and to feel its power. Cliff Arnebeck of Alliance for Democracy and Common Cause Ohio told me Thursday morning that the way the Cleveland AFL-CIO worked with the white public interest crowd and the black civil rights folks on this issue is matched by the way the Ohio state AFL-CIO is working with these groups in opposition to a Republican proposal in Ohio to eliminate campaign finance limits. Labor, Arnebeck said, is one of the three key parts of a coalition that must be built nationally.

"Labor has to be viewed as a public interest organization," he said. "Every organization has its own selfish interests. But the labor union movement stands for democracy and not for benefiting a small elite, but for the vast majority - not for this CEO club. It's going to come together…This will revitalize all three movements."

5. The Democratic Party has put its toes into the water of actual opposition to the Republicans. Today ended any remaining credibility for another presidential nomination for Kerry -- and probably for any other senators who did not voice their support for Barbara Boxer's challenge. Those who did not speak today will have to campaign against that record, as Kerry campaigned against his vote for Bush's war. The Democrats have begun to emerge as a second party in what has often seemed a one-party or duopolistic system. More power to them. It's up to us to keep this ball rolling by urging aggressive action on election reform and all other issues. The Democrats have started to copy Republican brashness. If they can cease copying Republican policy positions, there may be hope for them yet. Reid announced that he would introduce an election reform bill in a few days.

Call Reid's office. Thank him for what he did today. Ask him to think big and write the bill he wants, not the bill he thinks the Republicans will accept.

International Labor Communications Association, AFL-CIO / CLC
888 16th St. NW Suite 630
Washington, D.C. 20006


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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Still watching this looks good, I'll look at it again later! n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. They gave good speeches, stuck to the topic, made me proud.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
13. This Repuke statement by at least 3 speakers kills me:
"Why are we wasting precious time talking about this issue when we have so many important concerns to take up?"
I will eagerly await their same comment when the gay marriage amendment comes up. (Flip-Flop)
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Looks to me as if
the ONLY discussion the thugs want to have is how they can get their hands on our Social Security $$. And they want to make sure "We The People" never view them or hear them while they discuss this. Then I'm sure it will be the same for the draft issue. The only "crime against the dignity of the United States," to steal a line from Tom Delay is the rethuglicans sneaking in all these issues BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, with no accountability to their constituency whatsoever.
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. DeLay continues to make an ass of himself.
No worries, his days are numbered.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. DeLay is speaking now (rerun)
I am so repulsed by this man and by the divisive bile he's spouting. I wouldnt like him even if he were a Democrat, which thank goodness he's not. He is truly evil and vomit-inducing. How can this cockroach have any friends?
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darkworkz Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. Analysis of the days event:
The neocon "leaders" got "faced" and "faced" themselves for the nation and world to see. They came off as small, petty, whinny, paranoid, lying, cowards. And the exposure to real light was a terrifying thing. It was TOTALLY clear as you watched them.

Karl proved himself to be lacking in talent because his pre written canned speeches were on the wrong topic. He had nothing to counter the democrats with. The neocons knew they were spouting the wrong lines for the show and because none of them can think on their feet, they got mad. But the viewer couldn't tell what they were angry about but just knew it. Their anger was due to the fact that they were completely unprepared and their standard "tricks" didn't work in the situation. It was very interesting to watch.

He (Karl) tried a last ditch effort to toss Tom Delay up with a speech that sounded like he'd written on the fly. The funny thing was (and I listened to EVERY word Delay spoke) the speech writer knew he was talking against himself and was trying to spin his own actions into an attack on the Dems. But the info, speech reader, and topic didn't mix so the end result was the sight of a liar, about to be indicted, possible felon, trying to pretend passion and telling on himself the entire time. Very interesting combination that was captivating to say the least.

The Delay speech for me was the answer to the puzzle of the neocons and what they took from the day. They didn't cheer when it was announced that Bush had the electoral vote. It was a very quite anti-climactic scene, many are saying the same thing. And the cons walked out of the room as soon as it was over. The answer for me, to get back on point, was that the neocons showed genuine FEAR. Today's action has them in terror right now. This is why their foot soldiers haven't attempted a "chest beating" session. And I don't think they will in the near future.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "Bullies and cowards"
That was my overall impression of this bunch of so-called conservatives, many of which are loony dumbasses who were only elected because of the "R" by their name. If I had Xray vision I could have seen their pee-pees quaking (except for those two mean-spirited "bull-dykish" congresswomen who could have been Karpinski's lieutenants at AbuGrabe). I'll bet the martinis & qualudes were flowing when they got home tonight.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. I barely held in my lunch wathcing it live
----------------------------------------------------------------
Election reform can help save this country!
Same day primaries with ranked voting ballots for the Dems, and
THESE reforms for your town, county, and state.
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm
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