Many of you must be new to politics

[johnnie]

I can't believe all the whining in here. What you are witnessing today is history people. I'm sure most of you saw what went on 4 years ago. If you didn't then get a copy of Fahrenheit 911 and watch it. Four short years ago the attempt to do what you are witnessing right now flopped. If you actually believed that all these people were going to run in there and shout fraud, then you need to do some more research and pay more attention.
I would have loved to see this turn into what you might have expected today, but to me this is one hell of a show and I am excited that it got this far. It won't happen overnight, it took us about 230 years to get here, and it still isn't perfect. We are working on the change. It is happening before your eyes right at this moment. Just dig it, and keep working on it...or throw in the towel. Bitching in here won't change a thing. (Of course I also realize a lot of the complaining are pugs, but not all).

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

1. I've never seen so much whining and childish behavior in my life

The last 2 weeks have me wondering about the sanity of many of the folks on DU

[molly]

2. They are and many I wonder if are even registered voters

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. Yeah whining about the loss of our Democracy, how dare we.

:eyes: I am registered to vote, and do in fact, VOTE. Your point would be? I didn't expect today would be overturn of the "election", however, I did expect to hear some evidence provided of ELECTION FRAUD! I didn't hear of any. I heard lip service paid "allegations of voter irregularities" and that it "needs to be addressed". Sure thing! I won't hold my breathe on that. And if I want condescension , I will listen to the Chimp in Charge, thank you very much.

[Adelante]

3. Are you hearing the vote?

In the Senate? And do not condescend. This is disgusting behavior on the part of this party and I will bitch about it all I want.

[crispini]

5. Oh, please. We got a Senator to stand.

That was the most we could expect. Please.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

8. So what are you going to DO ABOUT IT?

[imenja]

25. Yes!

THAT is the question. ACTION is the key.

[johnnie]

9. Bitch all you want

I just said that bitching in HERE doesn't do shit.

[Chimpanzee]

YOU ARE RIGHT!

I've been voting since 76 and I am no idiot, thank you very much! If you think we are making progress then you are an idiot. I have finally come over to the dark side - Walt Star - I stand corrected!

[Machiavelli05]

40. Keep calling people an idiot. Youre acting like a child. If youve been..

voting since 1976, act like an adult - w/ some experience.

[imenja]

22. what is this mythical party that you support?

and how did you imagine they would vote otherwise? Reality has some advantages in that you aren't disappointed by what is ultimately impossible. The problem with this idea of waiting for Democratic salvation is that it discourages action. You are now too disgusted to want to work for Democratic victories. Therefore the Republicans win.

[housewolf]

34. Every one of them said ahead of time how they were going to vote

"I'm not denying that George Bush won the election", "we're not trying to overturn the election here," "this is about shining some light on the broken electoral system" and so on. The only vote that was a surprise was Boxer's.

[tx_dem41]

35. Then...you never really grasped what this whole thing was about n/t

[crispini]

4. Agree.

:kick: to put this back on the front page. READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS, PEOPLE!

[babylonsister]

6. johnnie, thanks for your voice

of reason! :hi:

[sui generis]

7. a bit of passionate stupidity is better than sophisticated ennui folks

keep that in mind. Not everyone can be as brilliant and full of ourselves as we can ourselves.

[democracyindanger]

11. Yeah, Chimpy's passionate stupidity

is so much better than the alternative.

[sui generis]

14. are those fightin' words?

or just stupid words?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

19. Self delete

posted in the wrong place

[cali]

Not so.

There are few things more dangerous than passionate stupidity.
As Yeats said: "The worst are filled with passionate intensity."

[sui generis]

21. ho hum

I suppose when all the democracts are toe-ing the same line we'll be indistinguishable from republicans. We need passion, reasonable amounts. If that's not allowed as a liberal and a democrat then one of us is neither.

[jackster]

10. Agreed

but I would have loved to see more yea Senate votes - besides that, at least so far, it's the most we could have hoped for

WE WERE HEARD - we're not going to sit back are we? I'm not - let's keep working, it's only just begun

[WilliamPitt]

12. Bingo

[saracat]

30. Besides Boxer, what was accomplished? We didn't even get media exposure.

It was ignored! I am pleased with Boxer and The CBC and the signers of the objection. Everyone else was unsubstantiated hot air. Would a yes to object have hurt them?If this wasn't covered? did it happen?America doesn't know it did!

[imenja]

32. so you point?

Does that mean it's not worthing doing anything? We should roll over?
Perhaps the solution should be to fund a people's cable network that actually covers the news!

[saracat]

54. If it isn't on television. it didn't happen.

This will not help us with votes OR reform if no one knows it happened. And except for Boxer and a small group of Reps, we DID roll over! It probably wasn't worth doing if we can't effect change, and except for some platitudes about reform, I don't see it happening anytime soon. They didn't even have the guts to cast a symbolic vote.How the hell are they going to "reform" anything?

[snot]

13. If you'll forgive the expression, RIGHT ON!

[imenja]

15. agreed

I got deleted for saying so on another thread. Probably didn't express it appropriately.

[demo dutch]

16. I sooooooo agree! The key is to stay on them & they will work for reform

[asthmaticeog]

17. Ordinarily I would PM this,

but since we're at DefCon Whatever, I'll have to leave it out in the open:

Thank you, thank you, a thousand thank yous for posting the single most sane, rational, levelheaded thing I've seen in the Election Results forum in a LONG damn time, johnnie.

[imenja]

28. Hail to Reason!

[johnnie]

50. Why.... thank you very much

I appreciate that.

[Beware the Beast Man]

18. Thank you, johnnie. Well put.

:hi:

[mousie]

20. I am new to politics

and yes, I'm still very excited that this is happening today... it is BIG! At least we got this far. Yes, it's too bad we couldn't get more, of course... but nothin' worth fighting for is easy I guess.

I really never paid attention to politics till the last election... desperately wanting to get rid of Bush, and discovering a man I really felt deeply would be a GREAT PRESIDENT of this country... John Kerry!

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. Not new to politics at all and still disgusted by what I'm seeing.

That's understandable. When a vote doesn't go the way you like it's perfectly all right to be frustrated, mad as hell and vent your spleen about it. Than you pick up the pieces, dust yourself off, take a deep breath and get back to work.

I don't fault anyone here for being disappointed to the point of bitterness. Most will get over it, some will not.

If I won a huge jackpot in PowerBall I'd be sorely tempted to either start another political party or buy my way into Congress. I won't feel the same way tomorrow morning. Let them get it out of their systems.

Oh, and it's a really good thing I don't have a chilled bottle of white in the house. ;)

Basically what I'm saying is that in the heat of the moment I don't think most of the bitching and whining should be taken too close to heart.

[johnnie]

33. Thank you for replying this way

I do understand frustration. It just seems a lot of people aren't seeing the big picture here. It wasn't really until 4 years ago that we found out how screwed up this all is. It is well on it's way to changing.

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. I know, but it's hard to see the big picture when you've been

up to your eyeballs preparing for two hours of your life. After all the phone calling, faxing, emailing, etc. it takes a little while for some people to pull back and see the landscape.

[emulatorloo]

Thnk you Johnnie - this was the first battle in a long war

and the Dems fought well today.

[Pithy Cherub]

24. Beautifully said!

we are on the record and building a case. This time we also got some eloquent professional political passengers. There a few who missed the train, but I am happy with more than 2000. Grateful to get this far!

[NightOwwl]

26. You've got to be kidding me.

MSM isn't covering this. Go outside and take a poll. No one even knows this is happening. This will all be forgotten about by the end of the week. Now if Kerry and the majority of Senators had voted Aye, it would be a different story.

[euler]

36. This is the reality

[merh]

That's the thing, don't you get it? Despite the fact that the MSM

is not covering it, has ignored the voting problems/election irregularities, this debate took place. A representative objected and a senator joined in the objection. They heard US, they heard from folks on this forum and other like forums as we screamed out to them that they had to stand up and be heard.

We helped make this happen, despite the fact that they wanted it ignored and the MSM ignored it.

WE HELPED MADE THIS HAPPEN, without the help of the MSM! That is freaking amazing! We still have a voice!

We have been heard and we have to continue to be heard! It is our Nation and we have to continue to work to save her!!!!

[NightOwwl]

47. I hope to god this really accomplishes something in the long run.

I have my doubts. I hope to be proven wrong.

[seito]

62. You tell em Mehr

We made history. We hold the power. All we have to do it stay involved.



This fight is just getting started.

[VAMom]

58. I know the MSM didn't give this a lot of coverage but . . .

More people know about this than we think. My mother who lives in a total news vaccuum in MO called me to rant about the stolen election -- I was pretty surprised she even knew about it. She said that she had overheard it from work. Don't get down, our message is won one heart at a time.

[JoMama49]

27. Thank you, Johnnie, Well said. n/t

[Stand and Fight]

29. Precisely!

This is our democratic process in action! It is a day that will be long fixed in our national memory, and it is imperative that people not give in to hopelessness. The fact that this debate has occurred is the show that our Senators and Representatives will fight if we are behind them. So, buck up people and prepare to fight for the America that we all know we can have!

[imenja]

31. Can we form a reality based coalition on DU?

A group where people focus on how we can change things, specific strategies and ideas, rather than the kind of imaginary notion of politics that pervades DU?

[tx_dem41]

37. There is one benefit to this display....

Its a great way to find out who the people are on this forum that are knowledgeable and "get it" and who the total novices are.

[Machiavelli05]

38. 90% of the people whining either arent old enough to vote or...

act like theyre not old enough to vote.

[msgadget]

41. If this had happened in 2000

and voter suppression continued in 2004, you can damn betcha there'd have been a quicker and louder outcry. And, considering the resounding silence we all experienced after November 3 from the party, this is HUGE.

[crispini]

42. Must. Kick. Good. Threads. n/t

[Lisabtrucking]

44. Yes believe it. I was one who never thought bush could steal the

election again. I am very happy that we finally had a senator who stood up against election fraud. I am disappointed with the democrats that were absent. Our democratic party should of stood in Numbers, numbers count.
Now I fear that Boxer will be looked apon as a lone believer of peoples right to vote.
Thats all I have to say, so don't get all uptight when some of us complain. We just want truth, and it's very hard to accept another false election.

[Justitia]

45. All I want is a freakin' "NO" vote - is that too much to ask?

You can even can the speeches and spare the cocktail weiners!
Give me a small item of substance - a "NO" vote.
Why won't they just vote "NO"?
Even if they never open their mouths and say a damn word!

Edited to clarify: "NO" to certifying the election results. I guess that would make it officially an "AYE" to contesting.

[imenja]

48. Boxer is it in the Senate

the House hasn't voted yet. You'll get the black caucus there.

[imenja]

51. 27 so far in the house n/t.

[imenja]

46. kick, very important

[GreenArrow]

49. when politics trumps truth, honor and courage

it's really worth very little.

[imenja]

52. so we surrender to Republicans

what is your solution

[crispini]

53. This needs to be read again.

:kick:

[genieroze]

55. I'm proud that the disenfranchised voices were heard. eom

[Califooyah Operative]

56. :::claps::: the pendulum always swings back, read a history book. nt

[Orsino]

57. Ever notice?

How one's own whining is complaining, and others' complaining is whining?

Apologies to Mssr. Carlin.

[earth mom]

59. Exactly! n/t

[steve2470]

60. We Dems faced down the "sore loser" meme and came

off smelling like roses. We did it brilliantly. We could have easily slipped into making statements that were not rigorously backed up by documented facts. If we had "legal case" evidence of fraud on 1-6-05, then yes, we should have raised holy hell and ALL Democrats should have protested the certification. However, such was not the case. We did the BEST we could, and I am sure the Repugs. know how the non-Zellmillerites feel about the election.

[cry baby]

61. You're right Johnnie, this will be in the history books for our kids

to study in civics class. It will be in every book written about George W. It happened because of a grassroots movement with DU and others contributing. It's history and those that are complaining will be proud someday that they, too, worked hard on this issue that they are now reading in their children's text book.

I have followed politics since I was young (and impatient). My mother was all into Dem. politics and taught me what I needed to know. Her father was political and was county commissioner for many years and we went through many campaigns with him. Please take some advice from an old (but passionate) dem. Baby steps - government is designed by the authors of our constitution and founders of our govt. to move slowly. When the checks and balances of govt aren't there as is the case today, it moves too quickly in the wrong direction. Against the inertia of the repubs right now, all we can hope for are tiny baby steps in slowing them down. Try to see that the big rock is rolling down the hill (to hell as far as I am concerned) and we (Duers and the like)are trying to slow or stop the rock from rolling. Very difficult - the rock is very heavy and will have to be slowed before it can be stopped. Difficult, but not impossible, if there are enough of us to get in front of the rock and help each other slow it down until we stop it. For now, while the repubs are in power, the rock will want to roll and we will have to exert a lot of energy trying not to let it go.

We've slowed them down and hurt them. I believe we can save democracy, one step at a time.

[cry baby]

63. kick for those who are just waking up after a long night!