Three different ways to view Kerry and congress action tomorrow.

[wiggs]

Given that Kerry conceded on Nov 3 and is now not even in the country during a time when our nation's identity and integrity are at stake, I see three possible ways to view Mr. Kerry:

1. Mr. Kerry is not the hard fighter we thought he was. He is weary and/or weak.

2. Mr. Kerry is satisfied with the outcome of the election.

or

3. Mr. Kerry already knows how many senators and representatives are going to challence the vote count and knows how many will vote not to certify at least Ohio. He knows he is not needed here at home because he knows that democrats and a few angry republicans are going to prevail in either making a strong point or putting the fear of God in Rove.

These guys talk to each other. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that democrats know how all other democrats are going to vote tomorrow. Most votes are that way....MUCH behind the scenes wrangling and discussion. If it was a close call, or if his presence would help advance an otherwise languishing debate, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT HE WOULD BE HERE!!

For tonight, I choose to be hopeful...therefore I'm going with #3. Anybody with me?

[helderheid]

1. I love it

so, hell, yeah. Count me in.

[marieaey]

2. #3

for me too.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

3. Don't Mean To Hijack This Thread

I realize the probability of it happening is about the same as the probability Shrub won the electoral & popular votes on 11/2, but theoretically could Ohio's votes get awarded to Kerry, and somehow give him the Presidency tomorrow? Is there actually an infinitessimal chance that's a possibility?

[SicTransit]

7. About as much chance as

the chance that by Brownian motion all the molecules of air in the rooom you're in will gather together in a tight ball in the corner, and you will suffocate.

[FreepFryer]

8. smarmy useless negative discouraging pointless rude ridiculousness aside,

Really, there's none. The alternate (Democrat) electors did not vote. See Kennedy v. Nixon, HI.

Some folks I've spoken to believe that after the infinitesimal chance of a majority pro-challenge vote, there is an equally outside (as in Pluto) chance that the proof violation of Ohio law against fraud would invalidate the election and demand a new vote in Ohio, but the overwhelming likelihood is that Congress would certify the current votes regardless.

I have also heard both sides of the argument regarding the challenge reducing the EV below 270. Some believe that once passed, the 270 threshold cannot be 'un-passed', in other words, OH's thrown out votes would leave Bush with 263, still enough to win under the circumstances of a Congressional EV challenge.

Others say that that would immediately lead to a House/Senate vote for Pres/VP, respectively.

One thing is for sure - there is some precedent, but Olbermann is right that a challenge in this day and age is new ground.

See a parallel thread with citations here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x242326

[wiggs]

9. Other states are needed

From what I understand, the Ohio votes just go away, they don't go to Kerry. Therefore other states that went for Bush also have to be discounted.

On the other hand, I believe the constitution and the 2000 SCOTUS decision gives much power to congress to administer elections. Maybe they have the power to do what they want....

Hey to OCD from Laguna Niguel!

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

11. Wow...

Another conspiracy nut in South OC. Nice to know I'm not alone, even in a blue state.

[corbett]

18. That's The Whole Point Of Conyers' Challenge

Ohio was certified illegally! What really ought to happen and what the Conyers report spells out so clearly is that Ohio needs to conduct a full hand count and then have the electors vote again. That's proper and constitutional. Making it happen is an uphill battle which will be determined, at least in part, by the number of people at the 1/6 protest.

[seito]

4. I will have to go with category three for 500 Alex n/t

[saracat]

6. Numbah Three! Bingo!

[bunny planet]

5. #3 it is.

Thank you wiggs.
I like the sound of # 3.

[Blue_In_AK]

10. 3 sounds good to me. n/t

[WebeBlue]

12. It always was Option 3. Kerry is not insensitive, stupid or otherwise n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. Me 3

[dreamcollector]

14. Please let #3 be true

[DearAbby]

15. And the winner is ::opens envelope:::

NUMBER 3!

It opens the door to the entire mess, Ohio is but a key. Kerry being out of the country is a great. Focus should be on the fraud, not overturning the election..that is icing.


Dear Abby says, you need to get to the meat before desert!

[m.standridge]

16. Well, W has a 48% approval rating

If inaugurated, he'll be the first in history to be that low then.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

17. #3 for me...

Thank you wiggs! Knowing all I do about Kerry, I have felt this was the case all along........here's hoping you're correct!

:toast:

[politicasista]

19. 3 for me

I don't care what anyone says.