I really think there is more going on than we know

[Marnieworld]

I think that a campaign that prepared for an election aftermath by organizing 10,000 lawyers and airplanes reserved would not go this quietly.

I am, though I realize that it could be just wishful thinking, taking hope from the posts here from members of the Kerry campaign (Chris Heinz and Elizabeth Edwards). They are reading with us all about how this election was stolen. And for some reason they are letting us know this now. They know we were hurt and angry and confused about the concession and they are reaching out. If they had given up completely why would they still be here? And jeez, Elizabeth should have enough on her mind now that I am speechless that she'd reach out to us to deal with our pain. What a woman!

They see the posts of new info and analysis of BBV. They really know about Bev Harris and sniggles and redsoxliberal and socaldemocrat and all of the other heroic posters that I'm forgetting. I told my husband , who is beyond distraught about the "election", about all of the proof we are uncovering and how even in this horrified aftermath there are many people who are still focusing on getting all of the votes counted and auditing the voting machines. He's hopeless that a bunch of liberals chatting amoungst themselves could have any real impact. I can't wait to tell him that people with power to change things are reading this. We are not insignificant. We are the seat of the revolution.

It's not over until December 13th. If we could prove the fraud and vote tampering, or if the votes left to be counted go to Kerry then he still wins.

Kerry promised that he wouldn't stop fighting and in all other instances he has been proven to be a valiant fighter. He didn't let his crewmates on his swiftboat down, he charged into battle to save them. When he came home he fought for his fellow soldiers still there and he didn't that stop that fight either all the way up to his efforts to normalize realtions with Vietnam and get an accounting of POW/MIAs. That fight lasted more than 20 years and he didn't give up. He also has a history of calculated decisions (voting for the war resolution to take away the weapon of the repubs saying he's a peacenik yellow bellied liberal) in order to win greater political fights. He and Edwards are brilliant, strong, informed men and if lil ol me here in Marnieworld knows that this election was stolen then they do too.

Don't give up hope.

[sister moon]

1. A thousand thank-yous for making me feel better...n/t

[demjomr313]

26. do you believe they are REALLY E. Edwards and

truely Chris Heinz?

or are we victims of scam?

[Marnieworld]

27. I saw somewhere that DU verified Elizabeth

I don't know if they verified Chris Heinz. It just felt true but of course this is the internet.

[demjomr313]

29. they must have - she's only got 1 post -

and she was able to start -

[Marnieworld]

30. actually I think she posted in another thread and they created a thread

for her

She mentioned , "high-jacking" a thread that was what she considered important. I wish I knew the original thread. It would be yet another clue.

[shamrock]

2. I agree with you

I've been thinking the same thing. Kerry is a fighter and I believe that he will do everything in his power to make sure "ALL" the votes are counted CORRECTLY. It's not over yet.

[Nite Owl]

3. We are the seat of the revolution.

We should make that a DU motto.

It just seems a bit incongruous that he would just give it up so easiy. It just doesn't fit all else in his life. Time will tell but if he has I will have felt betrayed so I hope you are right.

[glitch]

4. There had better be - signed: angrily hopeful or hopefully angry.

Just waiting, wondering, will I be ecstatic or furious?
Will living this paradox cause my brain to explode?

[bullimiami]

5. brother, i sure hope you are right.

im praying for it.

[Marnieworld]

6. sister, actually, but whatever!

keep praying

[Branjor]

7. Sorry if I am ignorant but

which DU poster is Elizabeth Edwards and which is Chris Heinz?

[Marnieworld]

10. I think they are using their names-links below

Elizabeth Edwards
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2604461&mesg_id=2604461

Chris Heinz
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2598145&mesg_id=2598145

[Branjor]

11. Thank you!

:hi:

[mazzarro]

8. I believe it is OVER!

It impossible to have conceded the election and then turn around a month later to make attempts to fight the concession. That will be viewed even worse than fighting on in the first place. What we need now is to take stock of how we and our leaders allowed the rePukes to corner every concievable means of cheating us even when we had the time to fight these efforts long before the election. We also need to seriously discuss and possibly purge the DNC of the strangle hold of the DLC and its self defeating philosophy that has become engrained in our leadership.

[Nightjock]

9. Thank you

That was very nice. My wife is distraught like your husband and I am telling her the same thing- but she is very skeptical.

The one thing that discourages me here at DU are the folks who are immediately dismissing us as "tinfoil hat" people. That is very hurtful.

This is NOT imaginary! I wish they would just disagree without labeling us as nutjobs. That's the way the evil side of the republican party works.

[silvershadow]

12. I would like to believe that...by the way, what did you mean

about Chris Heinz and Elizabeth Edwards posting here? It is the first I have heard of it...What did they say? Links? Thanks.

[Marnieworld]

13. See my post #10-n/t

[demjomr313]

28. i don't believe it -

i just don't - i am paranoid now.

[shamrock]

14. I'm not giving up

Those who choose to "just move on now" can, but at least until Dec. 12 when the electoral college votes I will have hope and keep faith that John Kerry is a man of his word. After Dec. 12 if it's decided that that ** stays, well, I guess then I'll just accept that fair or not, we and everyone else in this country and the rest of the world lost.

[Baja Margie]

15. Okay,

I don't want to give up, this whole thing stinks. But would someone out there tell us what we can do ? I love DU, but Christ, I have not even seen a hint of anyone charging after this issue , from BBC to the New York Times. Even the dispatches from Michael Moore's site have not indicated one iota of voter fraud.


What's the deal, what should be done?

[Marnieworld]

16. It's just day two of six weeks we have to fight

The first day we were all shocked that it wasn't the landslide for Kerry (perhaps it was of course) that we predicted.
Then we were all horrified after Kerry conceded so early. Emotions are strong and hard to deal with.

Now, many of us, have found logic and reason to get past the disappointment and are only beginning to fight.

Recounts still may happen after the votes are totalled due to laws that make it mandatory if the margin of victory is low enough.

Greg Palast is saying it.

Black Box voting is saying Fraud.

Mark Crispin Miller is saying the election was rigged too.

It's just day two and stories are coming out of "computer glitches" here and there, always favoring Bush of course.

The Kerry people are here with us and they read about all of the work people here are doing to save this election. We are not alone. The truth will emerge.

[henslee]

17. Either way, WHERE IS THE BLACK OUTRAGE?

This is 2 years in a row they got the goddam shaft in FLA.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Who says there isn't any? Don't expect the Mainstream Media

to tell you about it.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[henslee]

20. Um, I see nothing topical and specific relating to this week's events at

that site. Furthermore, I would expect DUers from FLA to post protests, official statements, etc. For whatever reason, I see no black leaders issuing statements about this election. If they did, it would find their way to internet media like DU and the like. I see nothing.

[michigandem2]

23. exactly..i was clueless to the egg throwing anger

from the innagural..until I saw F 9/11 the news can not be trusted...thank god we have outlets like AAR and DU and other blogs to get our message and feelign across

[mbee]

37. Last night I saw some type of election clean up on C-Span and they

cited voting problems, but just glossed over it and said something like we have to keep track of this for next time. That is a load of crap and I think all this cooperation is being staged. Something big is about to break loose so if I was everybody I would get ready to stand back because it is going to be all-consuming on these evil ones, at least I hope so!

[jazzwinders]

38. The black rage is right here...

and believe me, I'm mad as hell!!!!

[asjr]

19. We want something done NOW, but we really do not know

what is going on. They could be lulling the Repubs into a false sense of security while actually working behind the scenes looking into it. I agree about Kerry. He is not a quitter. We are all so outraged about this mess maybe we are being premature questioning "why nothing is being done." Just a thought.

[RevCheesehead]

21. Elizabeth's message: read carefully/between the lines:

But today I want to share something inspiring, part of a letter from Thomas Jefferson. This is from the new Bernstein biography of Jefferson. Jefferson sent the letter in 1798 after the passage of the Sedition Act:

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."

[Marnieworld]

25. and you can see hints in Kerry's concession speech

He says "just you watch" or something like it. I heard it onthe radio and I thought it was his worst speech ever because it was passionless. He's such a passionate speaker usually that it was clear that he didn't mean all of what he was saying.

Like I said, I maybe looking for hope and reading too much into it but you really can take her message of reassurance not to give up hope.

[RevCheesehead]

31. Statements made by Edwards, Cahill, and Kerry on Nov. 3

link: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/

Senator John Edwards made the following statement in Boston Wednesday morning:

“It’s been a long night. We’ve waited four years for this victory, we can wait one more night. Tonight, John and I are so proud of all of you who are here with us and all of you across the country who have stood with us in this campaign. John Kerry and I made a promise to the American people that with this election, every vote would count and every vote would be counted. Thank you. Tonight, we are keeping our word, and we will fight for every vote. You deserve no less. Thank you.”

*********

Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill released the following statement:

“The vote count in Ohio has not been completed. There are more than 250,000 remaining votes to be counted. We believe when they are, John Kerry will win Ohio.”

******************

Edwards on Wed. afternoon:

Thank you. Well, it was a long night and a long morning. And even though the outcome won't change, I want you to know that we will continue to fight for every vote.

Because every vote matters in our America. And we will honor each one of you who stood with us and who stood in line to change your country. We believe in you. We didn't start fighting for you when this campaign began and we won't stop fighting for you when this campaign ends. Your cause will always be our cause and nothing makes John and me prouder than standing with all of you.

>snip<

You know, I've learned a lot of lessons in my life. Two are the most important. First, there will always be heartache and struggle. You can't make it go away. But the other is, people of good and strong will could make a difference. And we can make a difference. Rest assured. We will make a difference.

One lesson is a sad lesson, but the other lesson's inspiring, and we are Americans, and so we choose to be inspired. We choose to be inspired because we know we can do better. Because this is America, where everything is still possible and at the end of our heartache today resides an eternal hope for the country we're going to fight for and the country we're going to build together.

***********

and from Mr. Kerry:

I would not give up this fight if there was a chance that we would prevail. But it is now clear that even when all the provisional ballots are counted, which they will be, there won't be enough outstanding votes for us to be able to win Ohio. And therefore, we can not win this election.

My friends, it was here that we began our campaign for the presidency. And all we had was hope and a vision for a better America. It was a privilege and a gift to spend two years traveling this country, coming to know so many of you. I wish that I could just wrap you in my arms and embrace each and every one of you individually all across this nation. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Audience member: We still got your back!

Thank you, man. And I assure you – you watch – I'll still have yours.

[johnnie]

33. I was thinking the same thing

When I read that earlier. Also when John Kerry told that guy at his speech that he has his back too...you'll see. Or something to that effect.

[RevCheesehead]

34. See my post, #31

[mbee]

36. Think about it for a moment - John Kerry is going back to the Senate

and John Edwards is not. John Edwards is the trial lawyer and I do not believe if voter fraud is involved he would turn his back on that with his vast experience. He will crack these criminals I'm sure of it and I can't wait!

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I agree, if they find someting they can take to the bank,

legally, we will hear about it. If not, maybe an enterprising historian will find about it many years from now

[demjomr313]

24. i agree - and i am so f'ing tired of what they call me -

PARANOID -

:crazy:

[Nightjock]

32. I have been laying low

with the republicans at my job and in my county. They know better than to argue with me but I will patiently listen to them as they give me thier reasons they think Kerry lost.

But I am just waiting to pounce -if and when the evidence is presented that there was election fraud. Without evidence and a candidate with balls to stand behind us, we may appear paranoid.

If Kerry is biding his time, I will too. I'll work behind the scenes like I pray he is doing.

[TalkingDog]

35. Hope?

Buddha says: "The way to happiness is to want what you have and to not want what you do not have." I find it to be a very peaceful way to live.

However, that said, it ain't over til the fat lady sings.

Translation: George W. Bush is not MY President until he slaps his fascist, drunken hand on the Christian Bible he claims to follow and with his money-grubbing fingers crossed behind his back while lying through his teeth says, " I, George W. Bush, solemnly swear to uphold the Constitution of these United States of America."

Until then, I'm participating by sending news links gathered from this site to local media. I'm passing along information about voting challenges to friends in Ohio who are in turn passing them along to people who can work to challenge results.

I may be one small voice but maybe, just maybe, Horton the Elephant will finally "hear" one of us tiny Who. So sing out all you Whos in Whoville. One of us is the very loud little Who. Maybe it's you.

(Okay, I know, I'm all over the map today. I'm still reeling from Black Tuesday.)

[meganmonkey]

39. ALL over the map, friend!

But you aren't alone, as far as the reeling goes. And you started with Buddha which was a much needed reality check.
Anger and conflict can motivate us to some extent, but I really believe that we can accomplish so much more when we have peace in us. And although the final weeks of the campaign were like a crazy roller-coaster ride that just crashed into a manure pit, ultimately, nothing has changed from a week ago.
And we need to get back on our feet and find our personal peace, so we can better act to spread peace. Our anger has to die down eventually so we can really get to work again.
And the mood I have seen on DU today says we are on our way.