Okay, here's the story from Florida

[Pallas180]

Okay, here's the story from Florida


I worked in the campaign..you have no idea how many volunteers REALLY
WORKED . worked our buns off.

We didn't have exit polls in places where they should have been.

Broward County including Hispanics went 85% for Kerry

Palm Beach County despite Rabbis and Ministers telling their congregations to vote for BUsh went heavily black, Haitian and Jewish
for Kerry - and I mean heavily.

I was poll watcher at a mostly Haitian site where there were threee precincts and 8 machines.

one machine was broken slowing down voting in that precinct to 2 1/2 hour wait.

And leaving 7 machines for three districts.

Inside poll watcher came out to tell me that in his district, 800 people, everyone standing on line was holding or at the machines using the blue color DEM palm ticket I had given them outside. He was thrilled.

the week before I had handed out about 1500 of these palm tickets in
a Jewish area. They came and asked for them.

Every Haitian or African American that went into vote stopped and took a DEM voting/palm ticket at the polls....I'd say about 2500 to 2700 for the entire three districts.We had to photocopy more because we didn't have enough for the demand.

During early voting which started OCt 18, when you heard there were 3 hour waits, there was and more; I handed out the same palm tickets in Palm Beach. 99% of the people going into those polls - hundreds and hundreds, stopped and took the dem palm ticket from me. Hardly any republicans in either place.

Again there, Theresa Le Poore only placed 12 machines for voters by the thousands and 4 were broken.

Electronic machines, no paper trail.

Early voting in several counties in North Florida also went Kerry (unusual).

60,000 ballots lost in post office. Voting day, thousands arrived at the PO to be sent to absentee voters. Of course they would never arrive in time for voting. These were for shut ins, out of staters etc.

Theresa LePore threw out 14,000 applications for voting early on.

We took Palm Beach County by a landslide. But there was one very very suspicious thing. I was assigned to a "targeted" area. Targeted because it's targeted by the repugnants to stop the black people from voting...

Where at the early voting republican poll watchers had been outside harrassing Kerry poll watchers....ON VOTING DAY THERE WERE NO REPUBLICAN POLL WORKERS OUTSIDE THE TARGETED AREAS. I mentioned this to others, wondering what was up. It was highly unusual that not one was there.

Polls stayed open til 7 and as I mentioned it was one wonderful stream of people of color voting, and voting, and young black hip hop guys too, who you wouldn't think would. They did.
you tell me what happened.

At 6 PM with one hour to go of voting, the word was FIRST passed down to us that the electronic machines were not always recording what the people were voting and to be sure to tell them to check the final summary page, showing your choices. A little late, eh what?

Better yet, ask Bev Harriss " Black Box Voting" what happened.

But worst of all Kerry didn't wait for all the military and absentee ballots to be counted - he should have waited 11 days. He was only 2 electoral votes behind the bastid.

Didn't want to divide the country anymore???????

Bullshit. It couldnt be any more divided. He needed to fight for us,
but he did the exact same thing Gore did. Layed down and rolled over.

What are the Gestapo threatening them with? blackmail ? Harm to Family? Doesn't make sense.

He said he would fight and he didn't . He said he had 10,000 lawyers (and believe me, a lot of them were down here, and he didnt use them
to mount legal challenges.

IMHO Voting is now a sham. Democracy in this country is over.


I'm renewing my passport.

[doodlebugs4kerry]

1. IMHO Voting is now a sham. Democracy in this country is over.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Ayuh, so

true.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT for election reform at the municipal and state level!
Clean up the American government from the ground up!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform

[Pallas180]

6. You with the 23 posts......treading dangerous waters, Junior.

.

[Almost_there]

24. Give the new guys a break. He's not disrputing.

This is a tough time, and last night I would guess there were 50% or more freepers, but, today? Why bother? They would just gloat.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[are_we_united_yet]

43. GFY

guess what that stands for?

[Eurobabe]

2. they didn't have to threaten, osama is now doing that

for the fucking stupid idiots who re-selected the moron.

[KRose]

62. We need to legislate paper receipts for BBVs!!!!!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. You are not alone Pallas

will have logn serious talk with hubby

[Pallas180]

9. Hey Nadin, good to see you.

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. same here by the way

OBL is now thearetnign us again....

Goldstein has been brought out

Not that the fundies will ever get it

[FlaGranny]

5. Forgive my ignorance,

but I have a question. I vote in Palm Beach County and I have no idea what a palm ticket is nor have I ever been given one. What is?

[sir_arms_50]

8. if this is true

Which i belive you it is.

You need to call the police. How can they say that this was fair. You have proof to show otherwise.

[Pallas180]

16. Granny, you remember those 2" wide by 8" long strips of paper

with all the democratic candidates on it from President down to Sherriff?

they are called "palm cards" although I called them palm voting tickets...

they made it easy for people to see the democratic choices...vote the
democratic ticket....it was not only presidential, but state, county, etc depending on your county in Florida.

When we ran out , I photocopies on pink, blue, yellow, green paper and
sat at the polls cutting strips.

We had hundreds of volunteers who really really worked.

People even flew or drove in from other states.

What has happened is not legitimately possible.

[liberal_in_GA]

66. I came to Jacksonville (Duval County)

from Atlanta. The energy was incredible. I drove an 80-year-old illiterate man who had never voted before and his blind, nearly deaf wife to the poles. The election officials had to come out to the car because they were too feeble to wait in line. They took the man's vote orally and filled out the ballot for him because he couldn't read it, and did the same for his wife because she couldn't see to read it. There were many poignant moments like this. People were INVOLVED. There were lines around the block in poor neighborhoods.

It just doesn't compute.

[ThomCat]

7. I agree

Elections are no longer valid. They are games. Theater. We're just supposed to believe that elections are valid.

[sir_arms_50]

23. Theater - than what if we won?

Than it would be ok - that is the easy way out of this -


This needs to be reported... You cannot say it is only US (that makes NO one want to fix it.

[bloom]

10. If only this was on all of the news channels.

Then people would know.

And maybe there would be riots.

Wouldn't there be thousands in the streets if the 50,000,000+ Democratic voters thought the election was stolen.



:hangover:

[CitySky]

11. most important line of this post

"Electronic machines, no paper trail."

We MUST fight to get a paper trail for 2006. Whatever we have to do. Hijack the media. Jam every phone line in Congress every day for a month. Whatever it takes. We must pass this SOON, in early 2005, to get it in place.

VOTER-VERIFIED PAPER RECEIPTS, or PAPER BALLOTS (like those that are bubbled in, then scanned electronically) EVERYWHERE.

[Almost_there]

27. How can receipts work?

I would guess only a receipt that you voted not who you voted for would be acceptable. If you have who you voted for, think of the fraud of that little ditty. Seriously, when you Scan-tron vote, machine vote, whatever, how do you know that your vote is correctly recorded? How easy would it be to switch the levers on a machine? Its just a matter of who you bribe.

~Almost

[BillZBubb]

46. But in both those cases there is a hard copy of the vote.

That hard copy can be counted by hand to verify the machine tabulation. So a verifiable recount is possible. It is much more difficult to game an election with a secure paper trail.

The way Jebco did it there is no paper hard copy. Votes become vapor, not paper. The Florida vote is a joke.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. You did a fantastic job and you're invited to my Blue Horizon's

Club. I started a thread somewhere on the subject. Any Floridian that has worked as hard as you have is worth knowing.

[CitySky]

13. btw, Pallas

Thanks for your report from the ground. I disagree with the last few paragraphs of your post, have no reason to think JK was "bought," but that does not detract from the fact that your description of the on-the-ground scene in Florida needs to be publicized. I nominated this for the home page.

[Pallas180]

18. No I absolutely don't think John Kerry was bought. Something

is going on and we don't know what it is.

Since the repugnants are big on pushing fear, I can only surmise that
it was something of that sort.

I have been told they had some really nasty things waiting for Gore and that's why he wouldn;t let anyone in Congress object to passing Bush onto the presidency.

These men, and I still admire Gore for his speaking out lately, meant
to change things, and at the last moment when it's time to fight, they
shut up. Something is wrong.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. You have to admit, though, that Kerry's quick concession was

like Duran's "No mas, No mas." Unless a Republican operative had a gun to the head of one of Kerry's kids, then I don't understand why he didn't atleast wait until Friday.

[library_max]

25. Gore did all he could. The Supreme Court had the final word.

It was a despicable word that had nothing to do with the law and everything to do with the identities of the litigants, but it was still the last word. Speeches in Congress would only have rubbed in the "Sore/Loserman" image. Gore did all he could. He fought. Kerry didn't. And I'm a Kerry supporter from 'way back, damn it.

[EGisJUICE]

30. I

I guess that's where the "just a fraternity" Skull & Bones connection between Bush & Kerry comes in. The S&B's purpose is to make connections and help other S&B's get into top positions in government and corporations. A bonesman laying down to help another get/keep the top position in government, that's exactly what the S&B was created to do.

[Pallas180]

33. Juice - that thought passed my mind - could it possibly have been

a stalking horse?

how incredible -

but we have seen that the world is upside down and the impossibly outrageous seems to have become the norm.

nothing is impossible.

I have been asked to work on the next election ---2006.

laughable.

Unless there is a new party (and I dont care whether it's called party of the people, or old democrats or new democrats or neo-democrats) -- I'm through with working for the democratic party - it's just another political hack party with a past reputation of being for the people. The only people it is for anymore is itself,
and like the republicans, for whichever lobbyist is paying them best.

Speaking of that, I'm glad Daschle and his lobbyist wife are gone.It will be interesting to see which lobby Daschle signs up with.

[tinanator]

38. I have to recommend today's Guns and Butter

The show they did today pointed out a lot of relevant facts about kerry's band of brothers backgrounds. If you have the opportunity to tune into the KFCF 2:00 PM/2:30 archive before tomorrow afternoon (24 hr archive, at about 2:38 they go into it. A very good show.
http://www.kfcf.org/

[Doohickie]

48. I don't buy that

If the intent was to let Bush have it, Kerry could have campaigned such that it would not have been close. And laying down so the other could have it makes no sense; either way, a S&B would be pres.

I think one of two things happened:

1. Kerry still has some strategy to win, but it would be more difficult to execute if he revealed it and had a media circus following him around. If this is the case, we may never find out because if it is unsuccessful, he will stand by his cover story that there was nothing more he could do.

2. W cut a deal with him, perhaps on the first SCOTUS appointment (that a moderate would be selected).

Neither of these things is my own idea; they've both been hashed out on DU. If I go on the assumption that Kerry's concession was somehow the honorable thing to do (even if we can't see that why), I would guess it is one of these.

I was ready to accept Kerry as my president; I have to trust him in defeat. I still hold to the possibility that Hope Is On The Way, and sooner than we think, but I have no hard information that indicates that. I'm just going on my gut feel, naive though it may be.

[sushi]

14. What happens if

after all votes have been counted * hasn't won? Is that possible? Sorry, this sounds like a dumb question, but I'd really like to know.

[Pallas180]

19. Kerry conceded. Even if we now found out he had won, as we did

with Gore, once they conceded, they forfeited the presidency and our
futures.

For the next 40 years

The Supreme Court

[Heddi]

26. Conceding isn't legally binding. It's just a speech

Kerry could have conceded at 7am yesterday. THat wouldn't have removed him from the ballot and it wouldn't have negated the votes he got.

Let's say he conceeded yesterday and WON--he would still legally be the president elect. He could refuse to serve, but then the honor would go to John Edwards on down though the newly elected democratic chain of command.

The votes will still be tallied. Electoral votes will still be counted. If, in 12 days, we find out he wins, HE IS LEGALLY the president. GW could NOT stay in office just because John Kerry said "I conceede".

He did not forefit the office of presidency by conceeding.

[leftynyc]

28. Exactly - election isn't legal until electoral college votes

sometime in December.

[brainshrub]

44. Yeah, they can ignore the will of the people again.

Like they did in 2000.

We are so fucked.

[Pallas180]

35. Heddi - when you concede, you quit. If the numbers say he has

won, he has already dropped out of the race. He would not be the president elect or the president.

If you are running a foot race, and you drop out, you have lost the race. You may have been the best or fastest in the race...but you
dropped out. You don't win.

[brainshrub]

45. Right-on.

Kerry is a wimp. He sold us up the river instead of fighting for all of us.

[Doohickie]

49. No, conceding does not mean he has officially dropped out of the race

It is merely a courtesy to congratulate the winner.

[strategery blunder]

56. Gore conceded twice.

Once in the wee hours of the morning on the day after Election Day.

Once after SCOTUS voted for bu$h*.

Gore fought as hard as he could only after retracting his first concession.

[ProudDad]

59. It's not a footrace

It's a legal question.

[Generator]

15. Thank you for confirming I'm not crazy

I have a thread in GD. And I just refuse to believe the numbers we have been given.

Maybe most of America is that dumb, but I ain't that dumb.

I also remmember them saying yesterday, "No real problems at the polls." Amazing Florida was called so early.

Thanks for the report.

[RedSock]

22. part of kerry quitting

is that the problems with the machines will be forgotten, unreported.

that is a HUGE legacy of his cowardly move today.

he has validated the paperless machines by agreeing with their "results."

a huge fuck you to democracy.

thanks john.

[Chelsea Patriot]

54. Is it true the voting in the Iowa Primary which Kerry won was BBV without

...a paper trail?

Is that why he can't speak out against BBV?

Because he was a beneficiary himself of Black Box Voting?

What exactly is going on?

[foo_bar]

63. there was no Iowa Primary

It was a "caucus", people voted with their feet. No black boxes, no voting, just head counts verified by competing campaigns. But don't let the facts hinder a good conspiracy theory.

[Faun Otter]

20. Nevada system seemed to work better

The paper under glass record made it harder to skim votes when attached to the touch'n'steal machines. The exit polls were almost right on the money in NV. But it isn't as if we had not been asking for fair voting machines for 4 years. The dumb bunny media treat it like a conspiracy theory when it is a conspiracy fact. Without enough outcry to get Joetta Sixpack interested, it isn't going to get any air time.

Cheats never prosper. History will not be kind to these people.

[althecat]

29. Pallas, how did the recorded results for your precinct fit with...

... your description.

I see that down in Broward there was a 33% vote gain to GWB. And over the state as a hole there were 24% more bush voters in Florida this year...

[Pallas180]

40. I haven't asked. I should and could tomorrow. Maybe I will.

.

[althecat]

52. It would be helpful....

From the look of things I reckon Florida was ground zero for a ballot stuffing exercise of epic proportions... There are some mighty odd statistics coming out of Broward County... 70,000 extra bush voters, an increase of 33%. I don't know Broward too well.. is there 70,000 newly motivated fundies there?

al

[Spangle]

31. We need to start a Florida support group.

I'm serious!

Thanks for your report. I spent all night watching for your numbers and wondering what the "H" was happening down there. I'm up in osceola. We didn't have the same voting machine. Things are fishy all over florida. I haven't been able to just set down and write a full report my self. I get to pissed. It doesn't make sense.

In 2 years we have the Gov race. During the last one the Democratic Canidates at least demanded that our votes got counted. Kerry just didn't care I guess.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. I'm trying. I started a thread, but it's quickly spiraling into

that blackhole that leads to the archives.

[Pallas180]

65. Thanks Spangle in Osceola...I know Kerry was heavy in Northern counties

early on - have you any idea how it went after that?

[Deja Q]

34. Jeb Bush should be in jail.

Yet he was voted back in, in 2002, despite beng the cause of the 2000 cock-up.

He's responsible for the 2004 THEFT.

Democracy is dead in the USA thanks to these fascists, but karma will get them. Look at the current status of the USA and how we're teetering. One little offset will cripple us, especially if it's related to the economy.

And some 40% of the population must have the IQ of liquid oxygen to want to keep * in, but that's not my problem any more...

[JFW]

36. reply

yep.

[CarinKaryn]

39. You;ve got to get your story out

Have you called the hotlines?

[Pallas180]

41. It doesn't seem unusual to me.

and if Kerry doesn't care enough to fight, shall I ?

[Pallas180]

42. Black armbands. I just received a call

from a friend with a daughter in law in New York State.

The daughter in law had a PTA meeting today.

When she arrived they were handing out black armbands.

Each woman took one, put it on, and left.

Very appropriate it seems to me for the day Democracy in America
died.

[camero]

47. Sadly you're right about democracy

The veil has been lifted and there is no democracy. The vote has been a sham. I'm thinking we haven't been a democracy for a long time and the votes have just been for show.

[KRose]

61. We need to legislate paper receipts for BBVs!!!!!!!!

[Maiden England]

50. I'm wondering what the real numbers were

I bet it was a landslide. A huge huge landslide. Stolen.

[chelo1973]

51. Evidence of Diebold machine tampering>>>>>>>>>>>

Go to blackboxvoting.org it will explain everything. Why can't we legally get some of these machine and examine the protocol and programming language. Evidence is right there!!!!!!!!!!

[Cinletharwi]

53. The Root of the corruption:

See here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2589912

Ultimately, the corruption infecting our society like a cancer is Corporate Power.

They own our media, our politicians, our government, and now our votes. They will never stop, and will never negotiate.

[nomatrix]

55. It took weeks to find all the crap that went on in 2000

"Voters in Palm Beach County, Florida, reported that when they went to vote on Sequoia machines some races on their electronic ballots were already pre-marked before they started voting. They had to ask poll workers to assist them in removing the selections from the ballot so they could start with a clean ballot. In some cases they weren't successful in doing this."

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65579,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1

Bev Harris

http://blackboxvoting.org/

[ProudDad]

57. Maybe someday the U.S. will be ready for democracy

But yesterday proves again that it's not now.

The game has been rigged since 1787 against everyone except affluent, white, male property owners. That's the way it's been and that's the way it is still. This is not and never has been a democracy. "Winner take all" was designed to favor the majority white, male landowners. That travesty of a sick joke, the electoral college, was designed to give parity to the slave holders in the southern states against the white population of the northern states.

When we have proportional representation, IRV, public financing of elections and no electoral college (fat chance), then we may be able to get there but not until then. And we're not going to see that in this century.

In fact, we will not see that as long as this country's the U.S. Empire. After the rest of the world rises up and puts us in our place, we may be able to have a democracy.

I renewed my passport years ago. I have done some extensive traveling throughout Europe, Morroco, Mexico, Cuba and Costa Rica. I KNOW that this is NOT the "best country on earth". There are many other places where people are treated better and are much happier than here in the belly of the fascist beast.

To answer the shrub's rhetorical question, the reason why "they hate us", is not for "our freedoms" but for our license -- license to use and despoil the earth for the capitalist pig's own narrow, transitory pleasure and purposes.

One might call me a hater of America. That's ok. I do hate this system of "government" that favors the rich minority over everyone else. I do hate a government that kills for oil. I do hate a population who is so ignorant that they can listen to a sack of shit like the shrub and his handlers.

I do hate a population that cannot see or understand the pain of a dead Palestinian child's mother, the pain of an innocent Iraqi man thrown into Abu Ghraib and abused, the pain of the child worker in Haiti making baseballs for the Major Leagues, the desire of French Workers to make a decent living wage with a decent safety net, the plight of the millions of Aids sufferers in Africa not to mention the pain of the homeless here in the U.S., the 44 million without health coverage, the underemployed living in their cars on the city streets. Yes, I HATE the kind of ignorant pig that votes for their miniscule "tax relief", their puny 'fear' of Osama, their irrational hope of someday "hitting the lottery" and their gas guzzling SUV's at the expense of the majority of the humans who inhabit this globe.

I was born here and therefore am a citizen of the U.S. by accident of birth. I consider myself a citizen of the world. I consider the people of world my brothers and sisters. If I had to choose between the majority of the world's people and this tiny nation of greedy, ignorant bastards, I'll take the people of the world, thank you...

:nuke: bush -- soon...

[ProudDad]

60. For a short view of real democracy

"We were out early on election morning and were amazed at the incredibly large turnout, with thousands of people waiting in line an hour before polls were scheduled to open. Venezuela has a system of electronic voting (with a paper ballot backup) and voters' thumbprints are recorded electronically, transmitted by satellite, and compared almost instantaneously to prevent multiple voting. "

From: http://cartercenter.org/doc1801.htm

Jimmie Carter's report from the Venezuelan recall attempt (The "opposition" was financed by the repukes, of course)...

Imagine, Electronic voting machines with an effective paper trail...

:nuke: bush

[Cornus]

64. Perfectly expressed

I agree with EVERYTHING you have stated and feel exactly the same way. Now what do we do?

[ever_green]

58. I can't understand why he conceded

This isn't over! Or at least it shouldn't be! What is really going on? I heard on NPR that the early votes are not even counted unless they have to be!

[maxsmom]

67. check these stats

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm