Good point, Randi: PA, DC and NY ALL VOTED FOR KERRY...and they

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

all got hit by terrorism!

[AzureWaves]

1. i know!!

that is amazing!!! all those people on farms in the middle of nowhere are the only ones that bought into the fear, not the rest of us in big cities that actually have a chance of being hit!!

[Hello_Kitty]

5. And gay marriage clinched the deal.

[Tsiyu]

2. VERY Good Point

leave it to randi to put it all together.


:toast:

[JaneQPublic]

3. Actually...

The Pentagon is in Virginia, not DC.

Virginia went for *.

[BeyondGeography]

9. You need to look at northern Va.

which has very little to do with the rest of the state and probably went for Kerry.

[Dem Agog]

10. Northern Virginia was decidedly blue...

Virginia is not the same as Northern Virginia.

Virginia is backwoods. NoVA is urban. If NoVA were to break off they'd get a large number of VA's electoral votes.

[Il_Coniglietto]

12. Pentagon is in Northern Virginia, which is Kerry Country.

Besides, it's in the DC metropolitan area.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

13. True. I stand corrected.

[Reverend_Smitty]

4. NJ lost nearly 1000 on 9/11

and we went Kerry too. I don't know how shrub can scare those fuckers that have no chance of ever being hit by terrorists...I'm looking at you Bible belt...and yet those who saw terrorism directly went for Kerry

[leftynyc]

36. Connecticut also lost their fair share on 9/11

Also went blue.

[Dem Agog]

6. ABSOLUTELY!

Every place where terrorism matters went solidly BLUE. Bill Clinton pointed that out.

So hearing about these goddamned "security moms" makes me want to puke. They're all redneck and midwest hicks with no skin in the game. They don't know fuck about terrorism. Let Osama go blow up some corn fields and rein hell down on flat hills of nothingness in cities with one stoplight and these toothless morons would be able to lay claim to knowing shit about "terrorism".

This election wasn't about terrorism - because if it was the smart people would have followed the lead of those who were hit. It was about right wing religious fundamentalists who want to convert everyone to their fucking vanilla, dumbshit, fairytale Christianity.

And the sad thing is that their "Jesus" and their "God" preached against bigotry, hate and deceit. They will all burn in hell and rightly so.

[kikiek]

15. Hello from the midwestern very blue state of MN

Otherwise I agree with your post.

[Dem Agog]

19. Okay you guys don't count...

But the rest of the damn red ones do! Argh...

[kikiek]

20. My stomach hurts. We're in for a whole lot of trouble I think.

[PittLib]

7. I posted this before (not a Randi quote) ...

I find it ironic that the places hit and with the potential to be hit voted Kerry. And the ignorant assholes in the middle ... with a greater chance of being sent to fight than of ever being hit ... voted for the shitbag. Hmmm...

[demodonkey]

8. I Live NOT FAR FROM SHANKSVILLE

It's in the supposed "conservative T" (T-shaped part of the state) but last week when I drove through Shanksville area (Somerset County PA) there were Kerry/Edwards signs all over the place up there!

[truhavoc]

11. But there is a bigger point here too!

All locations can even be considered a terrorist target went for Kerry too! Chicago, LA, SF, the list just goes on and on! Can you think of a metro area that did not go for Kerry??

[Minimus]

16. You mean terraists ain't innerested in attacking Redneckville, NC?

Well gollly.

I was discussing this exact thing earlier! Some southerners are just idiots!

[Nicholas_J]

30. I beleive they are now interested in redneckville

Bin Ladens last tape had the interesting statement about red and BLue states. Even though the Bush Security people stated that they did not beleve that Bin Ladens tape had a message, it is more than obvious that his statement referring to red states and blue states makes it fairly clear that Blue States are likely to be left alone, Bur Red State. His fight with the U.S. is also a fight with George Bush.

If you look at the states that have suffered terrorist attacks, or were considered as targets at some point by Al Qaeda, Every one was in a Blue State that wen against george Bush. If Bin Laden wants to make he point about GEorge Bush, he is going to let the states that supported Bush know in no uncertain terms that George Bush cannot assure their protection. Bin Laden has had a nasty recortd of success at most of the things he attempts. Given the sucess rate he has had, the likelyhood that he will succeed if he keeps trying approaches certainty. Bin Laden has also always done what he said he was going to do, and just kept trying until he succeeded. He recently mentioed red states in a most pointed way. He will try and try until he is effective.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

17. I told my hubby, "let's look at blue states to maybe move to" so we'll

feel comfortable living near like-minded people.

So all the supposed 'top issues' (Iraq, Economy, Security) were bullshit. It came down to G-d, Guns and Gays.

Pathetic.

[doni_georgia]

29. We're thinking of doing the same thing. I am sick of living in the Bible

belt. I can't deal with these people any more.

[Furrvis]

22. A metro-area that went to Bush? Try Dallas...

At least, I hazard a guess. 'Nuff said. My friends in Houston, however, saw tons of Kerry/Edwards signs and were most optimistic.

[2Design]

14. the red states are bigot people who want discrimination in the

constitution -

I over heard a lady in georgia saying we were safer with bush because other countries were afraid of him.....and that being a christian she had to vote for a christian president

she wasn't sure if kerry was christian

this can be a southern baptist thought line... I remember 20 some years ago going to a living tree ceremony and the man's wife had asked if I was christian since I was catholic - they think they are the christians and I am starting to believe they are part of the problem - their fundamentalism is worse yet - it is very bigoted

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

18. Being a Virginian and a non-Christian, not a bigot and don't want

discrimination; then again, if I did, I wouldn't be on DU.

[PeteGammons]

21. That's NOT a good point.

Good point, Randi: PA, DC and NY ALL VOTED FOR KERRY...and they all got hit by terrorism!

It isn't a good point - it's moronic and idiotic and stupid.

I said it earlier today, and I'll say it again. The first step to fixing a problem is to acknowledge that you've got a problem. There's so much fucking wishful thinking parading as analysis in here that it's sickening. To say that PA, DC, NJ and NY went to Kerry because of terrorism is self-delusion on a staggering level. In the first place, PA was the site of an empty field where a plane went down. Not a "victim" state, certainly not comparable to New York/New Jersey. Secondly, the Pentagon's in Virgina, not DC, and the people that work there are Virginians, for the most part, not resident's of the district.

Thirdly, the shrub DID BETTER IN ALL FOUR OF THOSE STATES THAN HE DID FOUR YEARS AGO! He was 700,000 votes closer in NY, NJ and PA than he was in 2000. Why, if not for the terrorism issue? Ay caramba! It's frustrating to all of us, but to say that "hey, chimpie lost the states hit by terrorism", as if that's some kind of fucking brilliant political revelation is so stupid as to make my hair hurt.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

25. Welcome to DU, Pete.

As I welcome you, I also ask that you not attack me by saying something I wrote as "moronic, idiotic and stupid."

I'm pissed * won, too; don't take it out on me, OK?

[PeteGammons]

31. No offense.

I also ask that you not attack me by saying something I wrote as "moronic, idiotic and stupid."

I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking Randi. That's a stupid point, and it's foolish to pretend that it's not. The terror issue clearly helped * in NY and NJ.

We're all pissed off, but that doesn't mean that any bit of stupid analysis has to be praised as a good point. Wishful thinking masquerading as analysis does NOTHING to further the cause...

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

33. Thank you for that, Pete.

We can agree to disagree.

[The_Counsel]

32. Oh, Brother....

"It isn't a good point - it's moronic and idiotic and stupid."

You know what? We'd all be better served if you simply disagreed with the original post. "Moronic," "idiotic" and "stupid" only describes your over-the-top approach to disagreement...


"I said it earlier today, and I'll say it again. The first step to fixing a problem is to acknowledge that you've got a problem."

Um... we were saying that about Bush for months, but 58 million Americans voted for him anyway. Go figure...


"In the first place, PA was the site of an empty field where a plane went down. Not a "victim" state, certainly not comparable to New York/New Jersey."

Okay, I'll buy that... but Philadelphia actually IS close enough to the New York area where it's citizens could have been affected by 9/11. That barren field you speak of? in close proximity to Pittsburgh, last I knew. Who do you think had to respond to the emergency on the ground? Then there's the issue of those planes originating from Boston. And yes, Massachuttsetts went heavily for Kerry, incidentally...


"Secondly, the Pentagon's in Virgina, not DC, and the people that work there are Virginians, for the most part, not resident's of the district."

...and where in Virginia is the Pentagon? Northern Virginia. Who did Northern Virginia break for? Kerry. Heavily.


"Thirdly, the shrub DID BETTER IN ALL FOUR OF THOSE STATES THAN HE DID FOUR YEARS AGO! He was 700,000 votes closer in NY, NJ and PA than he was in 2000. Why, if not for the terrorism issue?"

Didn't Bush CAMPAIGN more in those state this year than in 2000? Seems to me he did. Didn't have a chance in hell of winning ANY of the three states, but there he was, campaigning -- as much as 30 visits this year alone. Karl Rove may be evil, but he's not a stupid man. I'm beginning to think neither is George W. Bush...


"Ay caramba! It's frustrating to all of us, but to say that "hey, chimpie lost the states hit by terrorism", as if that's some kind of fucking brilliant political revelation is so stupid as to make my hair hurt."

Take some Tylenol, man. The truth is the truth.

Nearly every state that had even the potential of a high-profile terrorist attack within its borders went for Kerry. The only states I'd concede would be Florida (though even that's gonna be debatable as to who won for years to come) and maybe Georgia and North Carolina. But even then, the potentially vulnerable metro areas in those states went for Kerry.

[October]

34. It's a point

Many Pennsylvanians are very close to NJ and NY. A lot of us work there. I could smell the towers here in PA because of the wind shifts that day, and I'm way closer to NY than Western PA.

Still...I think the point being made here was to address the talking heads who are implying that we all trust Bush more on the issue of terrorism. The point here is that most people close to the events of 9/11 obviously don't trust him more. That's all.

It's an observation -- not the end-all answer to our election loss.

[Roland72]

23. New Usatoday County vote map

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

[Nicholas_J]

24. Not just NY,PA,and NJ.

But every other state in which intelligence indicates that Al Qaeda had given serious thought to attacking. Los Angeles was an original target, as was Seattle, Interrogation of people who have been captured indicates that the original plan of using ten to twelve aircraft and targetting Los Angeles, and Even the Sears Tower have been brought to light. Evert state that was an part of a targetting plan went overwhelmingly to Kerry.

That is most interesting.

On September 11th, My first thought was that the attacks were directly tagged to George W. Bush's election. I ifelt that Bin Laden was directly responding to Bush's statemenrs that he was going to disengage from the peace process in Palestine.

I have always harbored a feeling that ther is something more, somethig very personal in Bin Ladens attacks on the naiton having to do with George Bush or the Bush family. When BIn Laden states that Geoprge Bush is not telling America everything, I remember that Bin Laden comes from the world of high finance. Som of A Billionaire, he also was able to earn a maor fortune on his own when his family cut him off. He is apart of Saudi high finance, and the Bush's have very long and deep connectionn with Saudi business. There could be something far more personal involved in this, as BIn Laden was for years a part of the same world inhabited by the Bush's

I have the strongest of feelings had Kerry been elected, the U.S. would likely have been left alone, and Bin Laden would then focus on U.S. activities oversears.

I beleive that the U.S. will come to regret the choice of Bush thie election season.

WHen you look at the two parties Bush has chose to deal with, Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden, a striking differnce can be seen. Saddam was good at being a thug of a dictator within his own borders, but he was a failure at every thing he attempted outside his borders. A war to take over the Iranian oil fields. Failed. Invasion of Kuwait. Failed. Assasination plot on George H.W. Busj. Failed. Building of Osirak nuclear reactor. Failed. Nothing this guy ever did cane to success or fruition. But he was good for a quick successful military operation to give the appearance of doing something about terrorism, eventhough he had nothing to do with terrorism. To uninfomed and uneducated Americans, one towel head is as good as another. George Bush knew his base, Their racial and religious bigotry did not fail him. I think thateven if BIn Laden hits them where they live, they still will not make the connection between choosing George Bush and another attack.

Bin Laden is another story. They are running with a 95 percent success rate or better at their chosen mode of operation. GIven those odds, they are more than likely to succeed at anything they attempt. And Bn Laden is not a fool OR crazy. I beleive that he knows the average Am,erican mentality better than they know themselves. He knows that Americans will not get it after aanother attack, or even another. But eventually, they will get it through their thicks skulls. Too many failures on George Bush's part to protect the homeland will eventually wear down their support for Bush. Except that it takes years. IT took that long for Vietnam to result in Americans losing their patience with Richard Nixon.It may take a lot more sorrow than Vietnam brought, or September 11th brought in order to cause this.But it will happen inevitably. Americans are also very fickle in their support. They are much like the person they chose however. They will never blame themselves forthe choices they made this year, even if they decided to make the choice.

Unfortunately, we wil also have to live with the consequences of their choices.

[PeteGammons]

27. C'mon people - stay real, or nothing gets done.

On September 11th, My first thought was that the attacks were directly tagged to George W. Bush's election.

And what were your second thoughts, after you remembered that they'd attacked the same Towers 8 years earlier and blown up the Khobar towers in Saudi Arabia, and the embassies in Africa, and the Cole in Yemen, and when you discovered that they'd been planning it for 5 years?

Come on, people. Stay connected to reality. You can't win a battle if you're not fighting in the real world. He may have done everything wrong since he was elected, or he may have only been 80% wrong, but it's silly to pretend that those attacks weren't coming if Gore had won in 2000...

[nomatrix]

38. Review The GOP Platform

Who protects ya better baby?

Pete you are new here, so I'll pretend you didn't just say Gore would have stopped (FBI) John O'Neill from investigating the Cole attack. Who stopped him? Do you know? Google up the man who know too much. PBS did a documentary on it.

Or wouldn't have pushed through the airline security bill (Hart Rudman) that he was a part of.

Or stopped everything that had something to do with Clinton.

[October]

26. Finally, someone speaks the truth

I've been yelling this all night/day.

[Bluebear]

28. Wow I don't listen to Randi and I just posted exactly this!

"Remember 9/11!!" shouted fom a basement in Smoot Falls, Alabama!

[leftynyc]

35. All three of those states were the ones that

told Bin Laden to fuck off. The red states are a bunch of pussies.

[SmokeyTheBear]

37. very interesting......

What was the rest of the country thinking?