Notes from training session for Ohio recount observers

[Imperialism Inc.]

I live in Franklin county and attended one of the training session for recount observers today. Due to so many volunteers I am a backup for Franklin County (DRE/electronic machines.. older models) and on a list for Hardin(scan cards) and Marion(punch cards) counties.

====Cobb Campaign Recount Observer Training====
On December 11th, 2004 there was a training session in Franklin County for people that will observe the Ohio recount for the Cobb campaign. On December 12th there were two more session. Lynne Serpe, the campaign manager for the Cobb Presidential campaign, led the training session.The following is a list of information gathered, including ways the process has been obstructed. Some of this is old information.

• The date of the recount varies by county. Franklin county will be December 14th and 15th (if needed) and Hardin county 15th and 16th as two examples. Others will not start until the 19th. 4 counties have not set a date for the recount yet.
  
• Counties are more or less free to develop their own standards and procedures for the recount. A minor example of this is some counties are requesting a separate observer to view poll books, while others are allowing it to be one of the people observing the counting.
  
• There were over 500 volunteers in Franklin County alone! Over 800 out of state people have volunteered as well. This shows just how many people are concerned with this issue despite the lack of coverage in the mainstream media.
  
• Each candidate is entitled to one observer per counting team, and a separate observer to view the poll books (in some cases). In Franklin county this equates to 3 volunteers per candidate. The Kerry/Edwards campaign will be sending their own observers.
  
• The county's recount team must consist of equal numbers of Democrats and Republican. (note: these are the official counters, not the observers)
  
• The Green Party tried to expedite the recount procedure so that it would finish before December 13th. They were denied by a federal court since they had no chance of winning Ohio's electors (no 'irreparable harm'). This is a direct result of a 'right to vote' not being included in the Constitution of the United States. Because of this, only candidates can suffer irreparable harm. A disenfranchised voter that might have suffered irreparable harm is irrelevant under the law.
  
• The Green Party also challenged the fact that each county will be setting their own rules for the recount. The court ruled that , again, since there would be no irreparable harm to David Cobb that the different standards did not matter.
  
• Delaware County tried to claim they could not afford to do the recount. Best estimates were that it would cost the county $2200. However, Delaware surely spent more than that on the 6 attorneys they used in the court case. The Kerry/Edwards campaign helped out on this issue by filing a brief arguing that Delaware should not be able to get out of recounting. The court ruled against Delaware in this case.
  
• Provisional ballots that have already been ruled invalid will not be available for inspection by observers.
  
• Some counties returned the checks they were sent for the recount back on November 19th. The reason is, under Ohio law, you cannot file for a recount until after the vote is certified. Other counties held on to the checks at the request of the Cobb campaign. Some of these latter counties pulled a nasty trick by returning their check on the day the vote was certified. The Cobb campaign thought they still had the check and then had to resend it once they found out otherwise. This has led to the staggered start dates and some counties not having a date set yet.
  
• Some counties use their poll books to update a database with information on which voters came to the polls. Due to this, the poll books that are being entered the day of the recount will not be available for observers.
  

[jdog]

1. I thought the poll books were an important part of

verification in any recount?

[Imperialism Inc.]

2. I agree.

It is bull.
Lynne didn't seem too concerned about it though. She said, based on her discussions with those in charge, that she felt if people were to go back later,after the recount, when the data entry is done, they will be able to inspect the poll books.

[jdog]

3. Why would they agree to that? n/t

[ccarter84]

4. dunno, but when they do go back

don't be surprised if these poll books are looking suspiciously new...yet have all have been certified with an 'autopen' of some sorts, complete with varied signatures...bastards

[Imperialism Inc.]

5. What choice do they have?

It is at the discretion of the Secretary of State. Do a search on Blackwell in this forum to see his recent order to "lockdown" the poll books.
They must feel that a challenge in the courts would unsuccessful since she mentioned nothing about them pursuing legal means to reverse this policy. Or, perhaps, it is simply because they know going to court would delay the process even further. Are they to refuse to go forward with the recounts , some of which will begin tomorrow, and the bulk of them the rest of the week, so they can litigate this?

[jdog]

6. No, but they could do it under protest.

I don't know the legalities, but it seems like they shouldn't give up any rights without a fight.

[Imperialism Inc.]

10. It was clear that they have discussed the issue

and many others. It has been a fight the entire way so far.

[17yroldtwins]

7. How wonderful! So many volunteers!

This is the outpouring we saw for the campaign. These are the people that stood in line for HOURS to cast their votes for CHANGE.

Thank you, thank you to all who are volunteering to protect our democracy!

Attie

[jdog]

8. That's true. I should have said that too.

It's great to see this kind of action taking place.

[blueatheart]

9. sorry to sound ignorant but...

"Provisional ballots that have already been ruled invalid will not be available for inspection by observers".

So there will be no way of knowing if the invalid provisionals really were invalid or maybe votes for Kerry?

[Imperialism Inc.]

11. Correct!

They are all sealed in envelopes and the observers are not allowed to look inside.

[Imperialism Inc.]

12. I left out something fairly important.

This too is old news.

In each county only 3% of each precinct will be recounted. If there is any discepancy then they count them again. If there is still a descrepancy (even of one vote) then and only then will there be a full recount of the county. This is Ohio law.

One thing to note is it has to be full precincts selected at random. So if you have one precinct that is 40 , another 50 and another 25 and you need to count 100 votes to get to 3% you must count all 115 votes in this case. This is important because otherwise they might try "cut off" the counting before reaching the provisionals.

[Imperialism Inc.]

15. More info.

• In each county, only enough precincts to equal 3% of the total ballots cast will be counted initially. These must be full precincts selected at random. If there is any discrepancy (even one vote) then the whole county must be recounted. If there is still a discrepancy then (and only then) the full county will be recounted. The full precinct rule is important. For example, lets say they need to count 100 votes to get to 3%. If they have selected 3 precincts with 40, 50 and 25 votes in them they need to count all 115 votes in this case. They can't 'cut off' the counting and leave out counting the provisionals from some county.
  
• Some counties have already selected the precincts they will count. It is unclear if they did so randomly.
  
• Some counties initially said that they were going to cut off the counting at the 3%. The Cobb campaign has pointed out that is in violation of Ohio law as noted above. If the counties do indeed cut off the counting, or it becomes clear they were not selected at random, this will be an instance where the observers will have to get the Cobb legal team involved.

[EQPlayer]

16. What counts are compared?

I put this in another thread as well, but the law wasn't clear to me whether they only compare the machine and hand RECOUNTS or if they compare both to the original, "certified" total?

For example, if the original, "certified" total had Candidate A at 1100 and Candidate B at 900, and both the machine and manual recount had Candidate A and Candidate B at 1000, is that sufficient to mandate a countywide recount? Do they even rely on the original, "certified" totals or strictly the comparison between the hand and machine recounts?

If they don't compare to the original total, aren't we pretty much screwed in the case I described above?

Thanks for any response!

[Imperialism Inc.]

17. Good question.

From the packet I received it appears the certified results are NOT looked at.

Here is the exact wording for punch cards (optical scan is the same but with wording appropriate for the equipment):

d) The board must randomly select whole precincts whose total equals at least 3% of the total vote. These precincts' ballots must be manually counted.

e) Run the manually counted precincts through the computer

f) If the computer count does not match the hand count, and after rechecking the manual count the results are still not equal, all ballots must be hand counted. If the results of the computer count and the hand counted ballots are equal, the remainder of the ballots may be processed through the computer and results tabulated electronically.

[bj2110]

20. Ummm... so the certified count doesn't even play a role?

How does that make any sense at all?

If the hand count matches the new machine count, but both are off by a couple percent to the certified count, wouldn't that still be a huge problem?

[Imperialism Inc.]

21. Absolutely.

That is Ohio law unfortunately. I really need to move. lol.
The observers will be making a note of all counts though so at least we will know about it.
I know, its ridiculous isn't it?

[MadScientist]

13. 1300?

Is that 800 + 500 = 1300 people volunteered? Is that correct? (no overlap between the 2 groups?)

We should add that to the media blaster.

The simple fact that 1300 volunteers to recount Ohio eclipses the "400" protesters they've reported. Makes a nice headline. Newsies like good headlines.

Arneback said we need to get this into the MSM. Find good clear stories like this that attract attention and PUSH them.

[Imperialism Inc.]

14. Actually, a lot more than that.

Close to 2000 people(roughly... I didn't catch the exact number) from other counties in Ohio in addition to that!

[jdog]

18. kick

[jdog]

19. I'm sorry but I have alot of questions about these restrictions.

Can anyone direct me to a link where I can get a fast education?

[Lisabtrucking]

22. They ain't sorry.

https://home.comcast.net/~treehousehero/weaintsorry.htm