Why do all the rallies against voter fraud attract such poor numbers?

[saracat]

Even when we count the organizers numbers as opposed to MSM. We hear 500, 100, and 1000 people. It can't just be the time of week and day. We had 10,00o people cram into and auditorium to see Edwards on a Tuesday at 2 PM. with another 5 thousand waiting! I just can't believe that no one cares. It does look as though most have given up or at the very least don't have a real commitment.We can talk all we want but without numbers in back of us, it isn't going to work. I hope we see numbers on Dec. 12th!

[RaulVB]

1. Because...

Americans are not Ukranians.

The activism that takes place in the internet apparatus is parallel to that taking place on the streets of Ukraine. Plus, until today the DNC leadership remained largely silent.

Maybe I don't like it but it could be very effective. This site has demonstrated that.

[jamboi]

5. Kiev coming to a city near you! saracat are you organizing a rally?

I went to SF today and we made it into AP. Try it, you'll like it. Its a better use of time than citchin & bomplaining.

[saracat]

7. We have a rally scheduled and I have set the word out and our county

part, thanks to a wonderful new chair has really gotten the word out. I will be there with bells on, as will most of my PC's!

[Hello_Kitty]

2. You have to figure that

A large percentage of Kerry supporters are still buying the line that it was all about 'moral values' and that election fraud is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory - not something they want to be associated with despite the fact that everyone knows Gore was robbed in 2000 by now. But remember how long it took for the travesty in Florida to capture the public's attention, even though it was done so blatantly and in the open. Many people, Democrats included, had no idea what had happened until F9-11 came out. And with the current media lockdown (which seems to be opening up a bit) the election fraud has to compete with Scott Peterson and Paris Hilton for the public's fickle attention.

But I'll be at my State Capitol on Sunday, for sure.

[jsamuel]

3. People also haven't had a place to go to find out about them...now they do

http://redhandsmovement.com

[krag]

4. Lack of Leadership

The DLC just won't go near the issue, and like it or not they still run the Democratic party. Hence, no leadership, no mainstream media coverage, no catalyst. The result is a stillborn protest movement.

The response of the Democratic party to this rotten election is a borderline bigger scandal that the theft itself.

I'm not exatly sure what the DLC gets out of sitting on this. These guys have been beaten up pretty badly by the party base. Are they expecting us to just run back sobbing and vote for Lieberman or Hillary in '08 out of ever-increasing desperation? I don't see it happening.

I think a huge backlash is brewing, and another Nader 2000-style insurgency maybe brewing for '08 led by I don't know whom.

[Carolab]

15. BINGO

We'll all alone out there.

[buzzard]

6. Good question I am a Canadian and we had a good turnout

when Bush visited. Don't give up, rally the troops in the name of democracy. How I am not sure but you need a charismatic person to push this to the forefront and keep it there until the many questions surrounding this election are answered or debunked. I really can't help but there must be a group of activists willing to do this. Peace Sandy

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[saracat]

9. What are you suggesting? Can someone with you r post count , even think

that I might be what you are saying? It is obvious you haven't read many of my threads. Hey ,guys, you that know me straighten this guy out please? And what is it to you ,how I spend my time?

[jsamuel]

10. notta freepa

[Up2Late]

11. We're all still sad

I live in the Red state of Georgia, and had my vote counted by Diebold (true story) for the last 2 elections. :dunce:

But actually, I was a pole watcher in Atlanta for PFTAW/Election Protection, and have heard from sources that up until yesterday, at least, we have 17,000 Lawyer working on it (below the RADAR). I think most of the folks that would normally show up, are busy working on the problems.

We also, don't have millions of Dollars flowing in from the U.S. Government, like they are getting in Ukraine.:grr:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/ukraine/story/0,15569,1360236,00.html

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

14. I checked. I don't remember any such thing. The only time I recall

talking about anything like that was when I mentioned a bomb threat in Phoenix election day. This girl had someone else post for her and her theory dealt with that. Her premise was that ONLY Ohio and Florida had evacuations. I wanted to point out that that was not true. This girl that got banned because she posted her theory everywhere. I didn't respond well to her. Is that what you meam?

[saracat]

23. Delete

[Cookie wookie]

13. This is a valid question.

And I feel your pain!! I've wrestled with it myself, but we also have trouble in Georgia getting out sizable numbers for antiwar rallies or media reform meetings. The last media reform meeting I went to there were 2 people, me and a certifiable nutcase (although some days I think I may be getting there too).

We just have to work with the numbers we can get. I'm thinking when I show up at the Capitol on Sunday I'll be there with a sign and the same small ragtag band of activists who have shown up every time there is something to be done about voting issues. We'll be the same ones who try to get legislation through the General Assembly for voter verified paper audit trail for our touch screens at the next session. This just isn't an easy, slam-dunk kind of job to do because we have to fight a corrupt media that has people in our society programmed like dumb robots.

We are gaining momentum compared to when I got involved in the issue about 18 months ago.

[joevoter]

16. I think that people are starting to wake up

In general people don't think something is credible unless they see it on TV. This is sad. It may just be that it is taking longer than we expect for people to wake up. I have had many talks with strong local democrats here in southern Oregon that are/were stuck in depression having worked so hard before the election and then told on the "news" how they should change. When attending an meeting last week of different activist groups here in southern Oregon the only one that would not accept a flier from me was the person representing the democrats. She looked depressed and said that she already had enough information. At first I was mad, although I didn't show it, but then remembered that they are waiting for a strong clear statement from Kerry. As much as we have pounded the pavement I expect that one 3 minute prime time TV segment showing enthusiasm for this effort would have had a much greater impact at getting people out on the street

I had a three long discussions with a local democratic leader and STRONGLY suggested that she convey the message that this is not a time to fade into the background at a big democratic meeting in Portland this last weekend.

I think that they are starting to wake up to this, just not as fast as we had hoped. Here is what she sent me yesterday.

---------------------------------------------

To deliver the following letter, regarding our concern for the integrity of our electoral process, to our U.S. Representatives and U.S. Senators prior to the meeting of the Electoral College on December 13, 2004.

In addition, to forward a copy of the letter to the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

_____________________________________________

We, the representative body of Oregon Democrats urge an immediate and thorough investigation into extensive voting irregularities occurring nationwide

during the November 2 election and raising grave doubts as to the validity of the election.

Such irregularities include, but are not limited to the following:

Numerous reports of efforts to delay or discourage voting or actually purge voter registrations in pre-dominantly African-American and low-income districts
Precincts in Ohio showing vote counts ten times higher than the number of registered voters
Reports of "Touch screen" voting machines registering votes for the candidate NOT selected
Reports of Broward County, Florida machines counting "backward"
Voting is the absolute bedrock of our democracy. Now, not later, is the time to expose fraud, correct abuses, and prosecute corruption.


We encourage and will support our elected officials as follows:

U.S. Representatives Earl Blumenauer, Peter DeFazio, Darlene Hooley, David Wu, and Greg Walden we encourage and support a public and aggressive participation, alongside Congressional Representatives Conyers, Nadler, Wexler, Holt, Scott, Watt, Baldwin, Miller, Slaughter, Filner, Lee, Meeks, Olver, and Schakowsky in calling upon the Government Accountability Office (GAO), to perform a timely and thorough investigation into all voting irregularities nationwide
a public pledge to challenge the electors from any and all states where irregularities and possible fraud have surfaced

Senators Ron Wyden and Gordon Smith , we encourage and support
a public pledge to step forward and concur with any such challenges to state electors brought by members of the U.S. House of Representatives
Americans need assurances that their elected representatives are working with steadfast determination to ensure every vote is counted.

Your efforts to this end may be difficult and will likely be challenged by those currently satisfied with the perceived election results. However, for those who believe that America's promise of "libery and justice" and a counted vote "for all" MUST be honored, your efforts will be recognized as nothing less than heroic.

Respectfully,
Democratic Party of Oregon
December 4, 2004

[joevoter]

17. Also, stupid holiday shopping spirit

Some call it retail therapy...

[OKthatsIT]

18. Part of the reason is the DNC's insistance FRAUD wont change anything

I cant stand hearing their stupid statement, OVER and OVER.

[truehawk]

20. This is certainlyh the anthisis of a rallying cry. March to NOT change

[Clark2008]

19. Because the MSM has so brainwashed

most of the voters into believing the whole election fraud issue is a "tin foil hat" Internet rumor.

They simply don't know all the background - and won't until the MSM gets off its tailend, which, as of this morning, it still hasn't done. There's not a word about lawsuits, recounts or irregularities on the morning news shows, which, unfortunately, is what most people watch.

[Roger_Otip]

21. various reasons

1) the message is unclear - is this about unseating bush? is it about counting every vote? is it about saving democracy?

2) there hasn't been enough street protest up to now as far as i can tell, and very little media coverage, so what's been going on at DU won't have reached most people.

3) i listened to the rally at columbus on the radio the other day at the thought of standing there in the cold listening to people speak didn't sound that appealing. maybe some live music, a bit of a carnival atmosphere, costumes, and a march from one place to another rather than standing still so people can keep warm. make it a cultural event as much as a political one, so people go because they want to, not because they feel they ought to.

[meganmonkey]

22. I'm afraid much of DU is armchair activists

or deskchair activists, as the case may be.

I went to Columbus last Saturday and was terribly disappointed by the turnout. Fortunately the enthusiasm of those who were there was very high, and the symposium afterward was awesome, and I got a signed book from Greg Palast, so I left feeling good. But me feeling that it wasn't a total waste of my time does not a movement make!

We need to get bigger numbers out there. I live in Michigan, and on the 51 capital march site, the Michigan folks are discussing whether or not they should skip lansing and all go to Ohio (and by 'all', I mean it looks like about 5 of us). That's how low the reaction is.

It just means that there is much more work to be done by those of us willing/able to get off our asses and turn off DU and GET INTO THE STREETS!!!!!