Anglo/Irish - American communication.

[smirkymonkey]

Do any of you notice a seeming cultural barrier in communicating with Americans? I am American and have noticed that with friends from the UK/Ireland (not all, but a majority of them) there seems to be a major communication barrier.

I feel like there is often offense taken on both sides due to some kind of misunderstanding. The biggest problem for me is that I will state or write something that is seemingly perfectly clear or rational and it seems like the English/Irish person hears something entirely different and responds to that instead (kind of a straw man type of thing). Usually the anger is on their part, where they can't seem to understand that I am putting forth only my opinion (ranging from matters trivial to profound.) I feel as though simply having a different opinion is an offense to them and they simply cannot accept it.

I am someone who is very careful not to offend in personal relationships and I am, according to almost everyone I know, very easy to get along with and articulate (however, my forum persona is a bit bolder and more opinionated.)

What I was wondering was if any of you have noticed the same dynamic in your communications with those of us on this side of the pond.

"England and America are two countries separated by a common language."
George Bernard Shaw
Irish dramatist & socialist (1856 - 1950)

[sweetheart]

1. This issue of being "american"

Up until bush, there was a general acceptance that americans were not
political creatures, and could not be expected to extend in to that
world. That grace period is now over. All americans are political,
and as europeans are taking a lotta pressure from this american
fascist government, there begs that question to answer. "What gives?"

You know how american propaganda has depicted Germans, now 50+ years
after WWII, we have a very strong propaganda view, and even now, a
german person has the circuitry to apogize for hitler, even though
likely that person was not even born then. The european propaganda
at work today on the public mind, leaves no doubt, that it will be
americans of this next generation who will have to apologize first,
for their failure to put a leash on the biting dog.

So what brings stress, IMO, as i'm often in communications across
the atlantic, is this fractured view of the world, one where america
is doing some good, and the other, where america under bush is an
abject evil and up to criminal wars until his rabble can be put back
in prison where they belong.

[non sociopath skin]

5. With respect, Sweetheart, I think that you're OTT here.

In my experience, most Brits are able to differentiate between America and Bushism. Those of us who are left-of-centre have the clear analogy of Thatcherism whose tenets were alien to us but whose presence didn't make us want to give up on our country - quite the opposite.

Perhaps we're exasperated that too many Americans look as if they're going to support Shrub again but don't hold your breath if you're expecting a boycott of everything American. There are still a lot of positives about the States (DU is just one of them!)and the pendulum always swings back eventually.

Suspect the Iraqis may see it differently, though ...

The Skin

[sweetheart]

13. Well all i have is anecdotal evidence

On the common grazings near the house, is a place where tourists
often come with their camper vans... so during the course of the
summer, i often have a lovely chat with an englishperson on holiday,
and i'm merely reporting what i've expereinced.

You are a cosmopolitan brit, one who's married to a yank, and
obviously is aware of the transatlantic complexity. The folks i've
been meeting in camper vans are not of that ilk. They're more the
daily mail variety, who don't know any americans at all, and are
as ignorant of the USA as many americans are of the UK.

And honestly, until i clarify that i'm no supporter of bush, there
is a serious distrust and tension in every chat, no exceptions so
far this year. SO people without any first hand knowledge are being
swung by propaganda to subtly distrust the yankee hand.... and
maybe i said it too strongly, but it is a long term thing, this
propaganda effect... as it takes live contact to reverse such
thinking... and look what similar propaganda has done in reinforcing
a banal drugs war nobody can question without losing political
credibility.

I know you're right if i hang in the city of london... but such
is the M25 divide.

I'm glad of your reassurance, but it don't match with the tourists.

Best regards,
-s

[smirkymonkey]

9. Yes, one of the problems I have been having

is with someone (who has actually lived in the states, and was somewhat involved politically) who just keeps hounding me about "what the hell is the problem with you people" in re: to the polls.

I explain the situation in depth (media, propaganda, uneducated idiots, fundies, lack of knowledge about what is really going on, etc.) and let him know that there are just as many of us who are strongly opposed to the Bush Administration (again, I go into depth, give examples, etc.) He never questions or sends commentary on anything I say, he just keeps sending me "poll results" and accusing all Americans for rotten state of our government. I agree it sucks, but he can't seem to get past hammering home that one concept.

I am not generalizing based on this one person, rather this seems to be a pattern I encounter when getting into any topic of controversy. It's just that I feel like they are hearing different words or something. Attributing certain meanings where there are none.

[Englander]

2. Can you be specific,or give an example?

n/t

[smirkymonkey]

6. I have a few friends in England/Ireland

and when it comes to talking about anything, politics in particular, it is like they already have their mind made up and seem like they aren't listening (or reading) a word you say. I often feel stonewalled, but what is most infuriating is that you can't even have a debate with these people. It's more like a volley, where you say something, and they (these particular friends) reply with something that addresses an entirely different question. When you try to clarify, they respond almost exactly the same way. It's like I am not being heard at all.

I am sure all Anglo-Irish people aren't like this, but enough of them are to make me wonder about their being some sort of communication barrier. I was wondering if anyone over there noticed a problem in communicating w/ Americans.

[Englander]

10. Maybe these people are Tories,or not interested in ...

discussion,or you touched on a "hot topic".There are some issues that will get an extreme reaction if you talk about them,it could be that,or it could be the person you're talking to.

If you could say what the particular issue was,I can give you a British,or more specifically,a southern English, view on the context.

[smirkymonkey]

11. American politics...

particularly what is happening in this country with our current criminal, repressive government and the right wing media. Especially w/ regard to the supression of the truth about what is really going on in our government and abroad (particularly, Iraq.)

For the most part, they don't seem very upset about the Iraq war, and seem to think it was justified. But what is most frustrating is the insistance that "why is Bush ahead in the polls (??) if Americans don't approve of the way things are being handled?" I have explained the situation, ad nauseum, yet still the conversation does not progress past that point.

Oh, by the way, they are usually the ones initiating the conversation, in answer to your question.

[Englander]

12. Sounds like you have to counter their ignorance...

tell them why the war is not justified;every reason Bush/Blair cited doesn't stand up to scrutiny.It is a bloody mess.If some-one really thinks this illegal invasion is a good thing,you should do your damnedness to educate them.

The poll response seems like a red-herring;they are not infallible, and the poll that really matters is on Nov.2nd.How's that?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[non sociopath skin]

4. Well, the straight answer to your question, Monkey is "no"..

.. as far as I'm concerned.

As some DUers will be aware, I'm a Brit and my wife is an American. Far from seeing the kind of communications breakdown you suggest, other than in a minority of kooks and Freepers who would have difficulty with anyone "different," people who hear my wife's accent go out of their way to talk to her and be friendly.

I think that Americans tend to "wear their hearts on their sleeves" and, for that reason, more reserved Brits can find you a little "in your face" at first. But I have many American friends and relatives and if they have a problem with me, they're being remarkably low-key about it ...

The Skin

[smirkymonkey]

7. Thanks for the answer.

I just found it strange because I am someone who never seems to get into confrontations, and it's happened w/ almost every Brit/Irish person I know. Usually, it's regarding politics, but sometimes just societal observations. I tend to be the more liberal one on these issues, but I am not an in-your-face type of person.

It isn't that they just disagree, they get very angry about it and just cut you off. (Again, it's just these particular people I know, but I have encountered shades of it while traveling through these countries as well.) It's kind of like two entirely different conversations are going on.

Maybe it's just conservatives everywhere that I can't communicate with. I feel the same way about conservatives over here.

[smirkymonkey]

8. By the way, did you

catch what the deleted post said?

That drives me crazy.