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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-08 09:27 AM
Original message
Cameron condemns Tory leak arrest
Tory leader David Cameron has reacted with fury to the arrest of shadow immigration minister Damian Green.

Mr Green was held for nine hours by Special Branch on Thursday and had his two homes and offices searched as part of a Home Office leak inquiry.

Mr Cameron called the police operation "worrying and frankly rather alarming" and said the government had questions to answer about it.

But the Home Office said ministers were not informed until after the arrest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7753763.stm


Yep, Cameron looked livid on the lunchtime news today.
---------------------

"The decision to make today's arrest was taken solely by the MPS without any ministerial knowledge or approval"
Metropolitan Police

BBC report stated a top Home Office civil servant made the official complaint that got the cops in.
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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Crazy as it sounds I think it might be a good thing that a Shadow Minister
has been arrested and had his home and Parliamentary Office ransacked by members of the anti-terrorist branch of the Met. At long last the political class may begin to understand that such legislation an be used to oppress them as well as the little people in the rest of the populace.

As for the operation itself it was a crass act which was completely over the top considering the alleged offense concerned leaked Home Office immigration statistics which are almost certainly widely inaccurate even in their original 'unspun' format. If the senior civil servant who organised this operation did not seek ministerial approval then I am pretty certain he has signed the death warrant for his career since Green is a shadow minister in the official opposition which means his post has almost quasi legal status. If he did get the nod from ministers who are now denying the fact then we can expect UK politics to become 'hot' in the not too distant future. The government is treading on very dangerous ground here since ministers and their PR men routinely leak policies to the press for political advantage and to see what reaction they garner from the media. If Green was ever brought to trial there can be no doubt that his defense would raise this matter in court and it is likely that many journalists would wind up giving evidence in the dock. Some such the BBC's Robert Peston, who regularly get advance details of Treasury information (data which is market sensitive and much more valuable than crappy old immigration numbers), must be sweating this weekend since they may soon find themselves at the heart of this storm. Of course, in reality this matter is never going to get anywhere near the criminal courts since it is really a crude attempt to by the government state to intimidate both internal moles and their external audience.

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Albus Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree, a wake up call, although the arrest was quite disgraceful
imagine how we would have responded to the following alternative history...


Prime Minister John Major denied all knowledge of last night's police operation in which Robin Cook, Shadow Foreign Secretary, was arrested under a 300 year old law for receiving confidential Government documents.

The documents which were leaked to the press showed the Conservative Government knew that Coventry based Matrix Churchill were supplying arms to Iraq in contravention of UN arms embargoes."




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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The problem is that executive power ends up being abused by Governments of all political complexions
Edited on Sat Nov-29-08 06:33 PM by fedsron2us
The Tories are just as guilty as Labour in this regard.

The current case is likely to wind up as such a PR disaster for the government that I can not seriously believe that Brown, Mandelson or Jacqui Smith were orchestrating events. Indeed, the DPP seems not to have known about Green's arrest until shortly before it happened


Much more likely is the scenario outlined in this Times article which suggest that the root cause of this fiasco is that over zealous coppers at Scotland Yard were trying to ingratiate themselves with the head of the Home Office, Sir David Normington because he sits on the board to choose the next Commissioner at the Met.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5258476.ece

Interestingly the charge under which Green was arrested was

suspicion of conspiring to commit misconduct in a public office and aiding and abetting, counselling or procuring misconduct in a public office

This is a common law offence that was used in the unsuccessful prosecution of Sally Murrer not part of anti-terrorism, sedition or national security legislation.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5254372.ece


Hardly seems to require nine burly scuffers to investigate it.


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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree with that
Civil libertarianism needs to be properly ignited in the Labour and Tory parties again, and something like this may be the thing that does it. It's deemed acceptable by much of the political class when this sort of thing is aimed at non-white and/or non-middle class people. They need a right kick up the rear.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I fully agree with you and Albus in principle...
however, I'm cynical about politicians' being able to see things this way. They tend to see things in a party-political way: "This shows that Labour governments are bad and against civil liberties!" (never mind all the Thatcher government obsessions with officical secrecy, and lack of respect for civil liberties as shown by the sus laws). Labour in their turn will try to cover themselves and reduce the political fallout.
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Albus Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. David Davis: So let them charge Damian, put him before a jury, and see him subpoena the whole damn l
The arrest on Thursday of MP Damian Green for disclosing to the public a series of New Labour fiascos was not just a blow to freedom of speech, it was the culmination of this arrogant Government’s 11-year assault on British liberal democracy.

It was 1.30pm on Thursday that he was arrested by three counter-terrorism officers in a car park in Kent.
At the same time, his constituency office and, incredibly, his office in the House of Commons were being ransacked, nine counter-terrorism officers searched his London home.

He was kept for nine hours, even though he was questioned for only one. All his computers, his mobile phone and his home telephone system were confiscated, his email account was shut down and many files were removed, crippling his ability to serve his constituents – not to mention invading their privacy as well.

This week of all weeks, with Mumbai the victim of a horrific terrorist attack, we are left all too aware of the risk of terrorism.

Since 1997, this Labour Government has tried to hoodwink the British people into giving up our precious – hard-fought – freedoms, on the flimsy pretext that it can make us safer.

The truth is that we can’t defend our freedoms by sacrificing them – and Damian Green has shown us why.

What was the purpose of this heavy-handed police action against Damian? A huge breach of national security? No.

Had he posed a threat to our national security that justified diverting our counter-terrorism police from their other jobs?

No, just the reverse. That is why there is no suggestion of a charge under the Official Secrets Act – because it does not apply.

It is the duty of Her Majesty’s Opposition to scrutinise the Government, highlight its mistakes and hold it to account.

If the widespread reports are true, Damian is being pursued by the police, following a referral from the Home Office, for passing on leaked documents to the newspapers in four cases. Two of those cases involved attempts by the Government to hide serious security failings.

In one case in 2007, the Home Secretary tried to conceal the fact that 5,000 illegal immigrants had been licensed by the Security Industry Authority to work in sensitive security posts – including with the Metropolitan Police and guarding the Prime Minister’s car.

If Damian Green enabled newspapers to shine a light on this systemic failure, it is an example of free speech guarding our nation’s security. For that, he should be applauded, not punished.

The second case reported was the then Immigration Minister Liam Byrne’s attempt earlier this year to conceal the fact that an illegal immigrant had been working at Parliament.

This was a disturbing security failure at the heart of our democracy. Again, if Damian helped expose this security breach – so it could be addressed – free speech was defending our democracy.

None of this is new. Down the ages, liberty – and freedom of speech in particular – has been the best defence against sloppy security. Sometimes that will involve breaching the employer’s duty of confidentiality – as recognised by our law.

When, in the Thirties, Churchill warned against the growing military might of the Luftwaffe, he didn’t rely on stirring speeches alone. He put into the public domain information leaked to him from Government officials that demonstrated the weakness in our air defences.

Given the tragic legacy of appeasement, does anyone today suggest that British national security would have been served by gagging Churchill? Would anyone have dared to prosecute him? Of course not. Churchill’s brave stance saved us from disaster.

Damian Green was elected to Parliament to uphold the truth, serve the country and hold the Government to account. His responsibility is to defend the public interest, not save Ministerial blushes. If presented with leaked information that exposes Government failures, lies or cover-ups, his duty is to shop the Government – not the whistleblower.

None of the disclosures put the country at risk, compromised intelligence or jeopardised security. They just humiliated incompetent Ministers.

Of course, employees owe a duty of confidentiality to their employer. But, except from in exceptional circumstances, that is a disciplinary matter, not a criminal one – let alone a criminal offence under an obscure law that dates back to a court case in the 18th Century.

That is why the response by the Home Office and the Metropolitan Police has been appalling – and shows how instinctively authoritarian this Government has become.

Jacqui Smith’s department launched a witch-hunt, ordering counter-terrorist police to mount an investigation that had them arresting a young Home Office official at his home at 5.50am. This appears to have led them to Damian Green – who got similar treatment two weeks later.

Damian was arrested in what is the most unprecedented attack by government and the police on our democracy in recent history – while the Speaker of the House of Commons stood idly by. But they picked the wrong person to try to intimidate.

Damian is one of the steadiest men I have ever had the privilege to serve with. Yet I thought then that he must have faced one of the most difficult days of his life.

Only hardened criminals find being arrested anything other than wearing.

Nevertheless, after nine hours of interrogation, Damian emerged unbowed, shortly after midnight, vowing to continue to discharge his ‘duty to hold the Government to account’.

The inquest into how such a repressive response could happen in this country has just begun.

Did Jacqui Smith give the green light for the police swoop on her fellow Member of Parliament? Were counter-terrorism officers operating against an MP without her knowing about it?

What role did Gordon Brown play in this Kafka-esque parody of justice? The claim that no Ministers had any prior knowledge of the arrest stretches credibility to breaking point.

It will face intense scrutiny, and if any Minister is found to have been less than entirely straightforward it will certainly be fatal for their career.

It is almost six months since I resigned in protest at Gordon Brown’s contemptible corruption of the democratic process – amid widespread reports of the Government bribing and bullying its way to securing the vote on 42 days’ detention without charge.

For me that was the last straw after 11 years of relentless assault on our fundamental freedoms. We have seen the growth in the database state, outpaced only by the number of cases of the Government losing sensitive personal information.

We have seen crackdowns on freedom of speech and peaceful protest on the most trivial of grounds – including fining the sellers of ‘B******s to Blair’ T-shirts, detaining an 82-year-old heckler at the Labour conference and prosecuting peace activists for reading out the names of the brave British soldiers killed in Iraq.

I thought I’d seen it all. But even I had not expected to see a friend and colleague arrested for the heinous crime of being a good parliamentarian. But last week’s attack on our democracy will cast in stone Gordon Brown’s long-overdue epitaph as the most authoritarian Prime Minister in post-war history.

Damian is among the most straightforward and honourable of people. I trust him totally.

He worked for me when I was Shadow Home Secretary. Everything he did as Shadow Immigration Minister he did with my implicit or explicit support. He is guilty of nothing that anyone would recognise as a crime.

And our best defence? Ironically, justice can probably only now be properly served if Damian is formally charged under this obscure criminal law that dates back to the 1700s.

He could then elect for that ancient British bulwark against despotism, the right to trial by jury, place his trust in 12 members of the British public and subpoena the whole damn lot of them – from Blair through to Brown.



http://tinyurl.com/6knm4s
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Politicians are always leaking. It's insane to arrest one for it
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/nov/30/damain-green-conservatives

When late-night bulletins report that the state security police have raided the home of a senior spokesman for the opposition and placed him under arrest, you find yourself looking out of the window for reassurance that we are not living in Harare, Minsk or Rangoon. The detention of Damian Green, for the terrible crime of doing his job as a parliamentarian, is worse than an outrage. It is insanely stupid.

Dissident civil servants have been leaking government documents to members of the opposition since the Xerox corporation manufactured the first photocopier in 1949. Actually, it goes further back still. It was thanks to a flow of official secrets from the War Office that Winston Churchill made his reputation in the 1930s as the man who saw Adolf Hitler coming when most of the rest of Britain's leading politicians were appeasing the Third Reich. Neville Chamberlain was so furious that his government attempted to bug Churchill's phone conversations. What they didn't do was send in the goon squad to have him arrested.

For a more contemporary example, there is the leading Labour politician - one Gordon Brown - who made his name in the 1990s by skilfully exploiting the many Whitehall documents that fell into his hands during the Thatcher and Major governments. The young Brown would stand in the Commons waving leaked Treasury papers in the reddened faces of Tory Ministers. Under Prime Minister Brown, he would have had the anti-terror unit coming through his door.

Mr Green was not detained under the Official Secrets Act. The authorities resorted to a catch-all law about 'procuring misconduct in public office', a piece of blunderbuss legislation which dates back to the 18th century. On this basis, not only would Winston Churchill have been banged up in the Thirties and Gordon Brown thrown in the slammer in the Nineties, many more of our leading politicians and their spin doctors would be doing time. Politicians are always leaking. In government, they simply change the verb to briefing or spinning. If leaking is now to be treated as a severe criminal offence to be policed by the anti-terror squad, some of Labour's most celebrated spin doctors could be facing consecutive life sentences.

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Albus Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yep, here's the Prime Minister's views on leaks
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fedsron2us Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I can not see this ever coming to court
since as has been said the defense would start issuing subpoenas to half the politicians and
journalists in the country as nearly all have been involved in this practice at some time or another.
As Gordon Brown himself used of leaked documents extensively against the Major administration back in the 1990s one must assume that is only a matter of time before plod feel his collar too.

This is just a crude attempt by the executive to put the frighteners on those who leak against the governments interests. In fact more worrying than the treatment of Green is the fact that the official who leaked all the unremarkable crime and immigration data from the Home Office has disappeared and now appears to being held hostage by Home Office minders so that he does not talk to the press. This is simply sinister and is a repeat of the civil service 'kidnapping' of the poor sod who was blamed for loosing the DWP data. It all smacks of a government where paranoia has got out of control

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe it was a Tory inside job! Damian 'The Omen' Green....
Edited on Sun Nov-30-08 09:20 AM by emad
Ain't no smoke without fire.....

It must have cost the Met a good twenty grand to stage such a spectacular swoop by all those high-octane anti-terror cops.

I expect they had to have something up their sleeve to get a search warrant for such a high profile public figure.

Perhaps there is a possibility that the Green cover story is only the official byline.

Who knows.
-------------------

The Tories of course have a long and spectacular history of backstabbing.

Earlier this year their shadow chancellor George Osborne was caught out in the Oleg Deripaska fiasco. Made him look really clever.

Since then there has been much press speculation about just why this shady oligarch has been banned by US Homeland Insecurity Department from entering America.

deripaska is also involved in UK lawsuit appeals about ownership claims on his vast Rusal aluminium stock.

It all makes Osborne look dumber and dumber.



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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. Boris Johnson at risk of investigation over Green raid
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/dec/07/boris-green-raid-breach-conduct

A formal complaint about Boris Johnson's involvement in the controversial Scotland Yard raid on the Houses of Parliament could lead to his suspension or removal as Mayor of London. He is accused of 'potentially corrupting' the Metropolitan Police investigation into leaks from the Home Office, which led to the arrest of the shadow immigration minister, Damian Green.

The complaint alleges that Johnson, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA), is guilty of four 'clear and serious' code of conduct breaches by speaking to Green, an arrested suspect in an ongoing criminal investigation, and publicly prejudging the outcome of the police inquiry following a private briefing by senior officers.

Len Duvall, leader of the Labour group on the London Assembly, says in a letter to the MPA's chief executive, Catherine Crawford, that Johnson had brought the mayor's office into 'disrepute'. The letter is understood to have been acknowledged by the MPA and the assembly's monitoring officer, who investigates allegations of misconduct in public office. An assembly source said: 'In effect, an investigation is already under way.'

Investigators will now have 10 days to decide whether the mayor should face a formal inquiry by the local government watchdog, the Standards Board for England, which could see Johnson banned from public office for up to five years if found guilty of misconduct.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. House of Commons debate:
...///...

Former Tory minister Douglas Hogg began by accusing ministers of "concealment, duplicity, whitewash and cover-up".

For the Lib Dems, Simon Hughes said it was a "sorry state of affairs" if MPs were not given enough time to debate whether police should enter Parliament.

"This is the government trying to clamp down on the House of Commons having its say," he said.

But Labour backbencher Frank Field said the debate was descending into a "pantomime" and MPs would be judged, not on the debate, but how they voted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7770575.stm
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Where is Dennis Skinner in all this?
Labour MP, Dennis Skinner, was heard to say "any Tory moles at the Palace?" after members were invited to the House of Peers ahead of the Queen's speech.

The quip prompted bursts of laughter from the benches, and was clearly audible on broadcast.

It follows a week in which Conservative MP Damian Green was arrested for allegedly receiving leaked information from a home office civil servant.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/dennis+skinners+mole+gag/2863572
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Albus Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. "House of Peers"?
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. Damien Green will not be charged
Thus ends the whole sordid mess. Our government is not doing itself (let alone anyone else) any favours at present.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8001747.stm

Tory MP Damian Green, who was arrested as part of an inquiry over Home Office leaks, will not face charges.

There was "insufficient evidence" to bring a court case against the shadow immigration minister, the Crown Prosecution Service said.

Mr Green, arrested last November, said he was "very pleased" at the decision, calling the government "authoritarian".

But Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said it would have been "irresponsible" for the police not to have taken action.

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