Income trust scandal not a scandal at all

[jim3775]

Antonia Zerbisias found this Bloomberg news story which was printed before Goodale's economic update:

Nov. 23 (Bloomberg) — Canadian Finance Minister Ralph Goodale will say later today that he is leaning against imposing a tax on income trusts as part of his review of the tax treatment for the high-yield securities, a person familiar with the plan said.

Goodale instead will say he favors lowering taxes on corporate dividends to level the playing field between income trusts and tax-paying companies, the person said. Goodale will speak to reporters at 5 p.m. in Ottawa.

From Antonia

Seems to me that a Bloomberg report carries a lot of weight with money folk and one that is as unequivocal as this is could move mountains of money.

From My Blahg

To all you conspirazoid nutters. It’s not insider trading if the info is widely published before the announcement. And to all you progressives who are following the cons over the cliff on this one. Stop it. The cons are wrong about almost everything.

[Spazito]

1. Thanks for this, it is interesting

I, too, was wondering how it could be insider trading, etc, when the media had reported about the probability of what the announcement would be. I am watching with interest as to where this is going to go for sure.

[MrPrax]

2. What?

Um...so the Finance Minister leaked it...to an American publication prior to the Budget release?

Um...doesn't this strenghten the case of 'impropriety' and incompetence. I mean nothing suggests that it still wasn't 'leaked', it just suggests that business publications pundits are always speculating on what's in national budget announcements.

In fact, planting the comments in Bloomberg might be part of the cover-up.

But then again, Liberal supporters much rather talk about Tories/NDP than as to WHY the government didn't raise the tax on it's weathier supporters and have consistently under Martin placed more and more of the tax burden on the little people.

Maybe the editors of Bloomberg got a copy of a pamphlet called 'Budget in Brief'-- Goodale should do what Mike Wilson did...charge them with 'possession of stolen property'?

[jim3775]

3. Your smears are getting more and more ridiculous

The claims were that somebody in Goodale's office leaked the income trust thing to certain Liberal friends to make them richer (a claim that has no evidence backing it up).

If it was widely publicized it is not "insider", if Bloomberg news reports "investors expect the bank of Canada to raise interest rates 1.5%" and people capitalize off of that it doesn't mean the bank of canada is improper and incompetent.

"In fact, planting the comments in Bloomberg might be part of the cover-up."

You are just spinning silly theories now.

[MrPrax]

4. Not spinning...

You don't know and neither do I. What I know is that people in government don't always have the highest ideals and we have to be vigilant.

It should be investigated, that's all.

The only real difference between us is that you are a Liberal supporter and I am not.

Next thing you'll tell us that the Liberal 10 (plus Cruton) stole 100 million dollars to 'save' Canada, as opposed to the other perfectly acceptable view, that the sponsorships were a way to funnel cash to shore up Liberal ridings in Quebec.

Of course, we will never know why Martin didn't invite the chief electoral officer into the investigations to do forensic audits of Liberal Party and it's constituencies. We'll just have to take Martin's word that is was only a million bucks used by the Liberal's for their re-election campaign.

Jeez...(your nose must be Liberal red from holding it so tightly...these guys stink, man and I am not playing partisanship crap with you over what is downright shocking)

[jim3775]

5. Not spinning, oh please

This is spinning:

"In fact, planting the comments in Bloomberg might be part of the cover-up."

You don't know and neither do I.

Actually here's is what we do know:

1.The conservatives said the Liberals engaged in insider trading
2.It tuns out the income trust leak was widely publicized and not insider at all

What I know is that people in government don't always have the highest ideals and we have to be vigilant.

Yes but that doesn't mean every time the conservatives make a claim (I.E. Judy Sgro traded pizzas for immigration approvals) doesn't mean it is true.

The only real difference between us is that you are a Liberal supporter and I am not.

I think I have said twice already I will be voting NDP.

Next thing you'll tell us that the Liberal 10 (plus Cruton) stole 100 million dollars to 'save' Canada

No I wont be saying that. I do believe that the sponsorship program was created to counteract the Bloc's advertising and was eventually turned into a criminal enterprise and the ad firms are just as responsible as the politicians.

Of course, we will never know why Martin didn't invite the chief electoral officer into the investigations to do forensic audits of Liberal Party and it's constituencies. We'll just have to take Martin's word that is was only a million bucks used by the Liberals for their re-election campaign.

You are just repeating conservative talking points now.

I am not playing partisanship crap with you over what is downright shocking)

I think it's funny that I am only being partisan because you disagree with me but your un-factual smears of Bill Clinton aren't partisan.

I'm sure Stephen Harper will appreciate your vote.

Edit: Are you Warren Kinsella and Paul Wells' lovechild?

[MrPrax]

6. Look, Dude...

You do seem to be missing some background here:

1) The leak didn't actually come from the Budget; but came from a 'mini-Budget' that was done simply as a political ploy by a government under full knowledge that it was going to be defeated.

You don't know and neither do I, if the leak in this case didn't result in the Liberals using this opportunity to 'talk turkey' with their well-wishers and supporters. Also in Her Majesty's mini-Budget to her Subjects was a bridge in PEI.

It could be possible that such vital information might slip out in heated discussions with the 'troops'? Perish the thought...

2) You seem to forget that UNLIKE any other Budget produced by both Martin nd Goodale, it was preceded by a frenzy of stock activity entirely done to take advantage of said policy. It is normal for Security Commissioners to raise the issue when unusual spiking occurs on such occasions.

Now it does seem to me that we both might being blowing smoke out of our asses, because it could be that such activity on Budget days is a normal occurance and the Tory brain trust (all 6 of their few cells) spun this meaningless spike brilliantly. This one worked; the climate change plane thing was stupid; Planes are not environmental friendly, Martin takes plane, Martin is not environmental friendly. If the Tories keep tht shit up it will be a long long campaign. (Imagine: Martin is seen eating baklava in Greek Town and the Tories say that he is showing a poor example to the obesity problem in Canada! Holy Shit...this could get ugly by the 23rd of NEXT month)

It is also possible to say that some little pigs went to market and some little piggies stayed home because they weren't in the loop and when the dust settled the next day, all the little piggies compared notes and saw that Liberal piggies went to the piggy bank, while Tory piggies got shafted and thus they got their Man Harper to start a screeching!!

Back in the 19th century, gentlemen would have settle accounts over a game of Faro in the Red Parlor, but this is NOT the 19th century and so decent gentlemen's reputations are constantly sullied in the minds of the labouring classes at election. Frightful business really.

Now...this part about how if you complain about a corrupt government to must be using right-wing talking points from Warren Kinsella?

Why would I do that? Besides if I were inclined to, I would much rather real a good old Liberal like Hugh Segal!!! LOL

Oh yeah, Clinton is still a imperialist jerk. That people like him, is sorta irrelevent.

(PS I am not even voting time ;-)

It's possible...but I do think that it might be a reasonable question to ask that needs NO

[jim3775]

7. Hey, man...

The leak didn't actually come from the Budget; but came from a 'mini-Budget' that was done simply as a political ploy by a government under full knowledge that it was going to be defeated.

This was the "economic update" which is a normal practice of government. Here is a link to 2001's economic update. It was not done as a political ploy.

Now it does seem to me that we both might being blowing smoke out of our asses, because it could be that such activity on Budget days is a normal occurance and the Tory brain trust (all 6 of their few cells) spun this meaningless spike brilliantly. This one worked; the climate change plane thing was stupid; Planes are not environmental friendly, Martin takes plane, Martin is not environmental friendly.

We finally agree on something.

It is also possible to say that some little pigs went to market and some little piggies stayed home because they weren't in the loop and when the dust settled the next day, all the little piggies compared notes and saw that Liberal piggies went to the piggy bank, while Tory piggies got shafted and thus they got their Man Harper to start a screeching!!

"Tory piggies got shafted," again that would point to insider trading which was proven to not have happened.

Back in the 19th century, gentlemen would have settle accounts over a game of Faro in the Red Parlor,

I prefer Bésigue myself.

Now...this part about how if you complain about a corrupt government to must be using right-wing talking points from Warren Kinsella?

I'm just making a comparison, throwing anti-liberal shit against the wall to see what sticks seems to be Warren Kinsella hobby these days. Also, there is a difference between "complaining about a corrupt government" and spinning and smearing.

PS I am not even voting time

Do you mean you are not voting this time? If that's true then quit yer bitchin'.

Edit: Since Clinton annoys you so much I am posting these photos:

[MrPrax]

8. Look Sparky...

I think we have been overtaken by much larger fish...

Anyhow, as I sit munching away on popcorn and drinking beer, I figure your obsessive use of markup language is merely an attempt to make me look like some rube!!

jim3775 Replied
This was the "economic update" which is a normal practice of government. Here is a link to 2001's economic update. It was not done as a political ploy.

I heard Goodale call it a 'mini-Budget' himself on Germain's The House...go tell him.
Notice I m NOT calling it, Liberal's wishlist like Global does!! LOL

jim3775 Replied
I prefer Bésigue myself.

Well gentlemen out here in the better parts of Canada reckon that Faro is an honest game.

jim3775 Replied
I'm just making a comparison, throwing anti-liberal shit against the wall to see what sticks seems to be Warren Kinsella hobby these days.

Liberals in the last newscycle seem to be doing more than enough without Warren's help. Rod Love is still in the game and he is even more inane.

Seems to be some double-standard here...the Liberal sling, but no one can sling at them or else it becomes, 'negative campaigning'.

Don't you get a little irritated not being a Liberal hearing their little tagline on these Liberal TV ads where they say, 'you have 30 million reasons to vote Liberal'...wait a minute! I also got 100 million reasons NOT vote Liberal as well. They are a little presumeous of their place in Canada

jim3775 Replied
Do you mean you are not voting this time? If that's true then quit yer bitchin'.

What a fascist.
Our right to participate in democracy is guaranteed 24/7 or are you suggesting I have no right to engage in democracy, ONLY because, I find the offerings provided by the political cartels one day every five years or so less interesting than engaging in politics all the other days. Like slightly most of Canada's population, I am in an urban riding that is straight incumbency...sure a couple of battles are up for grabs, but not many--the action is in the bedroom suburbs and UNLESS I break the law and vote illegally--it makes no sense to go out and annoit the New Dem insider drone.

Caption This:

Nelson: Hey that 2 year welfare limit, Big Dog? How did you get that one by and still get respect by Progressives?

Clinton: They're stupid...same reason you privatized your country's water and have become little more than a neo-con shill barking about agricultural subsidies to keep the IMF happy.

Nelson: Yeah..white people are dumb, but profitable if you play them right.

[jim3775]

9. More obsessive markup...

"I heard Goodale call it a 'mini-Budget' himself on Germain's The House"

I'm not debating what he called it, i am telling you it is not some ploy the Liberals pulled out of their ass. An economic update is prepared every year, here is a link to every economic update since 1995.

"Well gentlemen out here in the better parts of Canada reckon that Faro is an honest game."

"better parts of canada"? You are being a geo-ist :D.

"They are a little presumeous of their place in Canada"

So the rightfully elected party is presumptuous about their place in Canada? Like it or not the Liberals were elected so their place in Canada is at the top.


"What a fascist."

Yeah I'm a real goddamn fascist, I got a poster of Mussolini on my wall. :sarcasm:

I was just repeating an old adage in a tongue and cheek way.

"Like slightly most of Canada's population, I am in an urban riding that is straight incumbency"

I live in one of those ridings too, the Liberal candidate will win (thats why I support democratic reform and by extension the NDP who is the only party talking about it) but that doesn't mean I am not going to vote.

On to other matters, I will admit when I have passed along bad information. That bloomberg news story was posted after the market closed, Antonia screwed up posting that one, I made the mistake of posting it here.

But here is some accurate information; company insiders must report to the Ontario Securities Commission any transactions they make, a check of the SEDI (System for Electronic Disclosure by Insiders) information showed there was no increase in activity before the mini-budget.

You can check it yourself here:

https://www.sedi.ca/NASApp/sedi/SVTReportsAccessController?menukey=15.03.00&locale=en_CAhere

I going to stop replying to your posts now (and setting my own thread to ignore), it was nice arguing with ya.

I knew that photo would annoy you.