Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Some politicians under foreign influence: CSIS

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Places » Canada Donate to DU
 
CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 09:07 PM
Original message
Some politicians under foreign influence: CSIS
Canada's spy agency suspects cabinet ministers in two provinces are under the control of foreign governments, CBC News has learned.

Several members of B.C. municipal governments are also under suspicion, Richard Fadden, the director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, told CBC News in an exclusive interview.

"We're in fact a bit worried in a couple of provinces that we have an indication that there's some political figures who have developed quite an attachment to foreign countries," Fadden said.

At least five countries are surreptitiously recruiting future political prospects in universities, with China acting the most aggressively, he said. But Middle East countries are also involved.

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/06/22/spying-csis.html
Tuesday, June 22, 2010 | 9:33 PM ET
Refresh | 0 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, CSIS at it's best - NOT
Edited on Tue Jun-22-10 09:15 PM by Spazito
Saying this without evidence/names/charges is beyond contemptable, imo. There is nothing like tar and feathering everyone by naming no one leaving every minority politician under a cloud. Why I would single out minority politicians is because of the naming of China and the Middle East.

Appalling, absolutely appalling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It Is Questionable
Especially since we have the RCMP electing our Canadian government.

Otherwise I can only conclude that he is not obtaining a response from the government and he has had to go public.

He is a long time civil servant.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is the manner in which it was done...
if he is a whistleblower who "had to go public" then go all the way. This is just unsubstantiated innuendo that does nothing but point fingers at everyone, especially, imo, minority politicians who are of Chinese or Middle East extraction.

He is making a serious accusation but refuses to stand behind it in any meaningful way. That is not of benefit and may well serve only to cause harm.

If he knows for a FACT this is going on then name names otherwise he is no different than those who infer all Muslims are Al Qaeda or all Chinese are Communists, imo.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Agree
And I find it hard to say that it is not government planned. If it is whistle blowing then the government is not doing its job.

The government should have taken care of this, just as we have done in the past. But then it was the Soviet Union. Now it is our "friends".

We also have had the Air India report this week.

He talked about espionage.

Every time one uses their credit card it has to be processed in the US.

We now don't have Inco. We now don't have Falconbridge. Espionage goes everywhere.

This talking is a failure of the government to do its work. The opposition should nail him or the government to the cross. Someone is wrong. And if he is correct the government has not been protecting Canada.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I find this very bizarre...
It is the total reverse of the 'norm'. The norm being the media, via a source hears about this concern on background, goes to CSIS and the government with the information and CSIS has NO comment and the government has NO comment for 'national security reasons', the reason given for almost everything these days.

CSIS never volunteers info nor does it's bureaucrats. Something smells here big time, imo. I can't figure out what the REAL agenda is on this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shockedcanadian Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. I read the article...
I missed the interview, which is a bummer as I was hoping to watch it.

Alot of the posters on this site are knowledgeable with how politics works in this country, I certainly am not, though I am learning alot and reading more than ever. This is because I am interested in how politics can affect intelligence policies, which is my concern for selfish reasons. I am fairly well versed in intelligence issues, both in Canada and outside the country. The interest in this subject is simple, I have been a target of Canadian intelligence for many years and tried numerous methods to clear my name. I can assure you the political system in regards to intelligence is both guarded and very undemocratic, but I digress...

I can say this, from what I have read, from those who are currently in the espionage world, those who used to be, and those who are close to the shadowy world, there is an immense amount of infiltration in Canada. The fact that he mentioned China should not be a surprise to anyone, the are actively targetting many nations, probably the most dangerous of all nations in this trade since the Russians. The problem is, CSIS knows about this, the government knows about this, and yet, very little has been done about it. The reason for this is that we do not have a strong legal system that allows these people to be punished, they are generally just shipped back to their home country in secrecy and backdoor dealings. In this respect I find our legal system embarassing. In the U.S if you are caught spying for another country you may never see the light of day, or not for a very long time. I don't even need to mention some of the most high profile names of those caught, a simple Google will show you that. First thing that needs to be done, make it a major crime in Canada to spy for another country on Canadian soil. Mandatory and strong prison sentences and minimal backdoor dealing with foreign governments. If Harper is so concerned about crime, he might start with the crimes that cost Canadians jobs and the nations soverenty.

If I were to guess, and this is only a guess, I would imagine the nation from the Middle East that might be targetting the universities would probably be India. They have also upped their interest in Canada in recent years and they have a strong presence in our education system. Again, just a guess, nothing to substantiate this of course. The problem is, India is also a booming nation, so their ability to fund such activities will only increase. I think he mentions these scenarios to essentially make such organizations, nations, and/or individuals aware that CSIS is on to them and to put a little bit of heat under their seats. He may even get so lucky as to turn some of the agents if they feel that it is a losing wager to continue to spy on Canada.

Here is the problem with CSIS as I see it. They are too much of a political organization, far more than any effective intelligence agency should be (you can lump the RCMP into this category as well). They have a history of selfish employees who are willing to line their own pockets along with their families. CSIS creates threats (I am a victim of this strategy) because there are supposedly not enough problems around for them to actually stay busy. They need to justify their existence all the time. This has very profound negative implications for the entire Canadian economy. No intelligent, productive person wants to come to a country in which they do not feel free or they do not trust the policing establishment. This has been one of Canada's greatest advantages in recruiting good talent, but we may be slipping in this regard.

As an example. Protestors at the G20 summit. This should NOT be of interest to CSIS or the RCMP, unless of course, there is ample and legitimate danger of violence (a minute percentage I would imagine). They are exercizing their right to free speech (or supposed right in Canada) and the right to assemble peacefully. This is in fact a good thing for CSIS. You would rather have them overt and in the open, if you suppress freedoms like this, problems get worse and manifest themselves in more radical ways. Again, these are the rights men and women in this countyr have died for to protect, you do this nation a disservice by targetting people. In my opinion, CSIS focusing on these organizations is a blessing to those nations actively involved in political and industrial espionage in Canada. Less resources wasted on them allows for greater success of their mandates in Canada.

CSIS could learn alot from what I would call "real" intelligence agencies, such as the CIA, MI5, Mossad and the like. These are agencies that actually do, or did have threats at their doorsteps and they don't waste time on what is useless, they focus on the legitmate threats and those who wish to cause harm to the nations and it's government or citizens. As in a battlefield during a war, you make the right decison or people die. In Canada, we haven't really faced this threat, therefore, CSIS engages in creating useless problems to keep themselves busy. It's as immoral as you can get, but it's a fact of life in this country. It will not change until people become made aware of it, I think the ball has started rolling on this one as there have been some fairly high profilecases leaked of agents of provacation.

Anyways, another long winded response for an organization that appears to be losing the battle. The have only themeselves to blame. Laws would have been more firm if anyone took CSIS serious. Unfortunately CSIS themselves ruined their own reputation by the actions that they have committed and continue to commit against regular Canadians.



Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
EmilyKent Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. The PMO knows nothing about it.
A spokesman in the Prime Minister's Office says Stephen Harper was caught unaware by stunning allegations that several Canadian politicians are under the control of foreign governments.

The revelations from Richard Fadden, the director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, point to foreign infiltration of municipal and provincial political ranks, including cabinet-level politicians.

Harper spokesman Dimitri Soudas says the PMO has "no knowledge of these matters" and is directing all inquiries to CSIS.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20100623/csis-claims-pmo-100623/
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shockedcanadian Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. If you believe that...
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 02:03 PM by shockedcanadian
Than I have an Eiffel tower for sale. I would be shocked,and slightly concerned if he was not briefed on these issues. Maybe not specifics as to whom, but certainly the general accusations and the guilty foreign governments. He is the Prime Minister,one who especially likes control; he must be aware.

There is nothing for him to gain politically (and after all, that is what he is, a politician) by acknowledging that he is aware of anything. It's a "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" situation. In particular with the upcoming summits, he doesn't need to ice relations while he is trying to build the Canadian brand.

It's a global economy, you either protect your resources and advantage in the wold, or you lose it. Ultimately those assigned to protect us will be impacted too, hell the old Utopian Canada has already lost alot of it's charm over the last two decades, where will it end up in twenty more years?

CSIS and the RCMP can waste time and resources padding their personal bank accounts with "fluff", or they can deal with what is really a risk in this country. Especially on the economic front. I would enjoy reading that they fired 200 of the old guard "bad apples" and replaced them with new recruits who give a damn about the realities we are facing in this country in 2010.





Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
EmilyKent Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The story has changed again.
Now it wasn't important enough to notify the Premier, but important enough to notify the PM.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/csis-director-retracts-comments-that-governments-infiltrated-by-spies/article1615007/

I'd say this isn't a well man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Government infiltrated by spies, CSIS boss says
At least two provincial cabinet ministers and a number of other government officials and employees are under the control of foreign countries as part of espionage schemes, Canada’s top security official said Tuesday.

In an exclusive interview on CBC’s The National, CSIS director Richard Fadden said foreign powers are infiltrating Canadian political circles and influencing public servants, fuelling a growing concern about economic espionage in Canada.

Economic espionage, the trading, sharing or theft of federal secrets, can be considered a crime. He would not name the provinces the cabinet ministers are from.


Context and significance of the CSIS director's remarksGlobe security expert Colin Freeze elaborates on what Richard Fadden said and why
Download (.mp3)


“We’re in fact a bit worried in a couple of provinces that we have an indication there are some political figures who have developed quite an attachment to foreign countries,” he told host Peter Mansbridge.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/fadden-raises-espionage-alarm/article1614071/?cmpid=nl-news1

Well. I would now have to categorize this as whistle blowing.
Not enough resources allocated towards espionage. Past comments about China by both CSIS and Haper's party when in opposition.

Seems like we have quite a bit of smoke here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Seems like the smoke has dissipated quite rapidly...
CSIS director backtracks on comments that governments infiltrated by spies

CSIS Director Dick Fadden is retreating from remarks he made on the CBC Tuesday night about Chinese spies infiltrating municipal and provincial politics in Canada.

“Recent comments I made in the context of a special report by the CBC on CSIS have given rise to some concerns about foreign interference in Canada. The following statement is meant to place those comments in context,” he said in a statement issued Wednesday afternoon,

He adds that “I have not apprised the Privy Council Office of the cases I mentioned in the interview on CBC” and that “at this point, CSIS has not deemed the cases to be of sufficient concern to bring them to the attention of provincial authorities.”

“There will be no further comments on these operational matters.”

more

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/csis-director-retracts-comments-that-governments-infiltrated-by-spies/article1615007/

Whatever the hell this guy was trying to accomplish, he shot himself in the foot and probably did more harm than good if he was trying to sound some kind of alarm, imo.

Foreign governments have always tried to 'spy' on other countries, infiltrate by attempting to put people who are sympathetic to their 'side' in influential positions. This is NO different, really, than multinational corporations attempting to ensure politicians sympathetic to their needs are placed in influential positions. I posit the multinational corporations are MUCH more successful than foreign governments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I Watched
The leads up to the CBC program and then the program itself.

He stated that we were allocating too large a portion of our resources to terror. In other words he had to shift resources from espionage to terror or he wasn't receiving enough for espionage. Or both.

Also watched Michel Juneau-Katsuya, author of Nest of Spies, at CBC.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/06/23/fadden-csis-spy.html
Wednesday, June 23, 2010 | 3:36 PM ET

It is a video extra on the right hand side of the page.
He mentions one of our friends using the french fact in Quebec.

Don't think that he has shot his foot. Look at it. He had to shut up. It is now up to the opposition to dig into this.

But having elected people working for the primary benefit of other countries in my book seems treasonous.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shockedcanadian Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. "Seems" treasonous?
Hehe, you are too kind Chimo. I would definitely call that treason. If you are going to send any criminal away for a long period of time I would suggest that someone spying for a foreign country would be one of those reasons, in particular if they were politicians.

What I find interesting if that he is now trying to downplay his comments, as I can see it, this is because he is probably well aware now that CSIS probably did something that would not be very popular and/or illegal. That's why the Privy's office has not been notified, I am sure the SIRC will be notified about these cases now (don't hold your breath on some investigation and actual action).

Scary stuff, he is the Director of CSIS and he is saying that CSIS doesn't feel these cases to be of sufficient concern? This is precisely why this nation is in very deep trouble. CSIS is a political party, always watching what they are saying and who they are offending, for about 16 hours I actually had a glimmer of respect for this organization that has ruined my life (along with so many others). Same old same old, CSIS is looking for more funding and hand outs. My motto remains the same with this organization; if there is not a threat, they will create it.

Open spy season remains in Canada. Step right up and send your spies over to us, they don't even have to be very good at what they do, we will welcome them with open arms and be gracious hosts...

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Now The Rebound
Ottawa aware of foreign influence: sources

Sources tell CBC News the highest levels of the Canadian government have known for years that foreign countries have been trying to win influence over Canadian politicians and public servants.

That information comes a day after CSIS director Richard Fadden said he had never warned officials close to Prime Minister Stephen Harper that some provincial cabinet ministers may be under the sway of countries like China — even though he told the CBC earlier this week the agency was discussing the issue with the Privy Council Office.

Sources tell the CBC the PCO was well aware of those concerns, even if it hadn't been told the details of who was involved.

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, the minister responsible for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, Canada's spy agency, refused to discuss Fadden's bombshell allegations.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/06/24/csis-fadden-.html
Thursday, June 24, 2010 | 6:27 PM ET
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Places » Canada Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC