Milwaukee Lutherans back ordination of gay clergy

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

From the J-S:

"The Greater Milwaukee Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America passed a resolution at its annual meeting Saturday recommending the Churchwide Assembly "permit gay and lesbian candidates in committed relationships to be considered for ordination on the same basis as other candidates."

"Amid what is a contentious resolution, Bishop Paul Stumme-Diers said it was important to maintain unity within the church.

"We are committed to remaining united even amid our differences, recognizing our center is not on our opinions but rather it is in Christ," he said.

So does that mean the Lutherans in Milwaukee hate Jesus and America?

Link

[TheMightyFavog]

1. According to the pastor of the Wisconsin Synod church in town...

The entire ELCA is completley comprised of "agents of Satan tasked with steering Christians away form the truth of God's word."

This guy also sees environmentalists as "Communists out to further Satan's agenda."

Unsurprisingly, the local High School's Biology teacher left this church for the ELCA church, and she brought a lot of people with her. This was the Wisconsin Synod church's pastor's reaction.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

2. I grew up in the WELS

and that reaction is pretty predictable. Let's just say that Osama bin Laden isn't the only religious zealot that should be on the FBI's radar. These people -- and I include my own mother in this statement -- are just plain loopy.

[Serial Mom]

3. Me too!

Went to WELS schools thru high school! I finally figured out at the height of the Vietnam war when I graduated that they had been isolating us from the world!

Then sent my kids until 8th grade and am really happy I sent them to public high school where they got a broader view of the world.

Haven't been back in a long time and glad I am not involved with them anymore.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

4. Other than the LCMS, I didn't know other Lutherans existed...

Grew up in a small town where WELS was the only game in town. I didn't realize that in the next town over (ten miles away) there was an American Lutheran Church -- I didn't know it until I had grown up and moved away.

WELS believes, simply put, that every religion other than their own is hellbound. It takes an act of will to be an intelligent human being and swallow that nonsense.

[RevCheesehead]

5. The pastors won't even talk to me,

let alone participate in any ecumenical events. I think at one time, they would at least converse with other pastors. I know for certain that they do not approve of my "plumbing" with my "vocation." :(

ELCA: :yourock:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

7. What's the current status of WELS women?

When I was a kid (1960's), they made the very radical move of allowing women to attend congregational meetings. They had to sit in the back and weren't allowed to speak. Have they made any progress in the past forty years in this regard? I know that women aren't allowed in the ministry, but what about positions of lay leadership -- or even voting?

[RevCheesehead]

8. Still a big no-no, as far as I've been told.

Women are not allowed to assume any positions of leadership, or to vote on church matters. (I'm certain that the exception is Sunday School.)

Yeah, some of the local kids have been told that our church is in peril, and we're going to hell because I'm appointed there. The mother of one kid's friend even lectured him (he's a teen), telling him that I needed to start reading the Bible, because it's clear that women are not allowed to speak, let alone preach.

Yes, Lutherans can be Fundies, too. :nuke:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

9. In moving to Milwaukee, I vetted Congregations...

I found one that is a "Reconciled" congregation and is actively involved in inner city programs (despite their being located in Waukesha) - they're also "partnered" with the nearby Catholic Church on projects of joint concern (something that would make the WELS heads explode).

Even though I'm not gay myself, I use a congregation's stand on GLBT issues as a handy litmus test. Any group of people that will welcome gays and lesbians might even welcome a broken down old lefty like me. It hasn't steered me wrong yet!

[RevCheesehead]

10. You might want to check out the Methodists, too.

Lots of liberal clergy in Milwaukee, and I'm sure there are plenty of open congregations. (We're no longer allowed to call ourselves "reconciling" or "confessing", since they're more political statements than theological ones.)

Do you know where you're going to live yet?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

11. Bookfield or Pewaukee, likely

The Mrs. is coming up next Sunday and we're going to buy something. The house in Cincinnati sold last week.

[RevCheesehead]

14. Congrats on selling your home!

I know that's a big relief. I'll check with my clergy friends in the area at conference, and will get back to ya. :)

[joneschick]

21. hey Jeff

there is a small Christian Church/Disciples of Christ congregation meeting in Waukesha that is "open and affirming". We will have a welcoming table at PrideFest this weekend. Right now we're low on families with smaller kids and I know you've mentioned small fry in your household.....
pm me if want any info

edited to add: I grew up Misery Synod in suburban Milwaukee.

[Lisaben2619]

12. At the WELS high schools, women teachers still make less $ than men.

The men often also receive a stipend for housing as "the heads of the house" that women teachers can not get. Also, women cannot be department heads.

I'm convinced that WELS is a cult. They consider themselves to be the only true believers and have all sorts of horrible beliefs (in addition to sexism and homophobia) like unbaptized babies and people who haven't heard the word of God go straight to hell. Along with Jews, of course.

They are one of the church school systems that are getting vouchers under the Milwuakee "choice" program. So, our tax money is going to further indoctrinate innocent children into this terrible, backward culture.

[RevCheesehead]

15. I find it amazing how many women are afraid to leave.

You'd think there would be enough women who would say, "I've had enough, I need to go where I am valued." Sometimes, religion is very, very scary. :scared:

[Serial Mom]

13. Years ago (and I mean a long way back)

when I was just in early elementary school, my pastor was a really great guy.

He did talk to other priests/pastors in general area. My mom was Lutheran and my dad Catholic - he talked the priest from my father's church and the priest also had communications with my pastor. But after my pastor left, and I became a little more knowledgeable, things changed a lot. When my mom passed away, there were tons of people from my dad's church (including 2 priests - one a Monsignor) that attended her services. When my dad passed, there wasn't a single person from my church that attended, and only one sent a card!


They treat women like lower class citizens! I left after all my kids started at a public high school - the straw that broke the camel's back was the school was built when I was in 3rd grade about 1959 (?) and the gym ceiling was covered with sprayed on asbestos. It was still there when my kids went and I read about how dangerous breathing asbestos fibers was and started a petition to present to the Church Council to raise money to have it removed ASAP. I got taken aside by a WELS High School teacher's wife (they attended our church) and was TOLD to stop it or proceedings could be taken against me! How's that for a threat by a Christian!

[RevCheesehead]

16. I am so sorry to hear that.

Especially how the church people couldn't be there in your time of grief and need. And the school? "Stop it, and there won't BE a problem???" How insane.

Are you still a member there, or have you found a more accepting congregation?

[Serial Mom]

17. Sorry to Jeff for going off-subject ...

I was in a 'pity me' attitude this afternoon, but I must say Thank you Rev for your warm, comforting response. It's what one would hope for from a Reverend.

:hug:

BTW, just watched KO ... he is a never miss show around our house!

[RevCheesehead]

18. You should visit our group sometime!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=315

We post nightly, and have a terrific group. Check it out. :)

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

19. Not at all...

My sister had a similar experience when she and my brother-in-law divorced. Nobody -- Nobody from the church called or looked in on her to see how she was doing. She became an instant non-entity despite having been an active member for fifteen years.

She's now an Episcopalian. Score another one for the WELS.

In fact, of my five siblings, one doesn't attend church at all, one's an Episcopalian, one's a Methodist, one's a Jehovah's Witness. I'm the only one who's still a Lutheran, but according to WELS I'm hellbound because I'm the wrong flavor.

[CatholicEdHead]

6. What an arugment

just invoke Satan and Commies and that somehow solves it. :rolleyes:

[LittleClarkie]

26. Woo hoo

We do try.

[RevCheesehead]

20. I am really proud of the ELCA.

They give me hope for the future. I think one of the reasons the United Methodists haven't done this yet is because it is so dominated by the southern (more conservative) church. But maybe in 20 years or so, we might get there, too.

Thanks, Jeff, for posting this really great bit of news.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

22. Another reason...

A former pastor of mine was decidedly liberal (I tell you, I vet my spiritual leaders), but he was opposed to a move to recognize gay marriage in the Southern Ohio Synod (ELCA) because he feared the schism that it could cause. I know that's not enough of a reason to deny people the blessings of the church on their union, but I could at least see where he was coming from. I'm sure that as a pastor, the last thing that you want is a wedge issue splitting your congregation. Isn't that going on with the Episcopal Church right now?

[RevCheesehead]

23. Episcopals, Methodists, Presbyterians, ....

Nearly every church is facing this dilemma, trying to find the balance between politically correct and scripturally sound. For most, I fear, the question is ultimately about $$ - since you don't want to p.o. your donors.

I will add that these same churches are the ones who have been steadily losing members, as the older ones die off and the younger ones simply can't be bothered. What they don't realize is that the church's hesitancy is what's contributing to the image of church being "irrelevant" in people's lives. :eyes:

[RetroLounge]

24. My family was originally lutheran

Missouri Synod, I think, whatever that means. I haven'e been to church since about age 10. But when I was getting married, I wanted it to be in a church, and the one that was most welcoming and didn't ask about my having to join etc. was the UU church on Milwaukee's east side on Ogden. Georgeous gothic looking placve and very friendly, not to mention very active in issues important to me.

If I were to ever go to church, UU would be it...

RL

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

25. Unitarians are overwhelmingly liberal

I found that to be true in Cincinnati, where even the Democratic Party wasn't overwhelmingly liberal. I really think a key for Kennedy (and any other Dem challenger in '06) is to plug into liberal faith groups. They tend to bring their own built-in organization, and there's not a huge difference between evangelizing and campaigning.