Okay, people - I can't decide: Bell or Gammage?

[StellaBlue]

Give me your pros and cons.

[johncoby2]

1. Kinky Friedman

to sing the victory song for either Bob or Chris.

:)

[RufusEarl]

2. Same here!

I like both, my wife is going with Gammage and i like Bell. We went to hear both speak, and both were impressive.

Gammage has run campaigns and has won before, i think this gives him an edge in the general, experience counts. Both have pretty good progressive ideas, Bell beats up on T Delay and i appreciate that.

Thats about as specific as i can be sorry to say, but either will make a goos candidate in the general, I'm sure we'll get better descriptions from other DU'er, and i would appreciate more information myself before i vote tomorrow.

[PDittie]

3. Pros: they're both good Democrats...

one of whom will be the next Governor of the Great State.

Cons: none. You're thinking of Tom DeLay.

[derby378]

4. I'm inclined to give my nod to Bell at present...

...because he put in his time chasing down Tom DeLay. I have yet to meet the guy, though.

[NoPasaran]

5. Why I'm voting for Bob Gammage

This is reposted from my blog

When we founded Keep Austin Blue about a year ago we conceived of it as way for people of a liberal/progressive bent to socialize and stay informed about what’s going on politically in our city and the state. We’ve been fortunate to hear from a variety of great speakers, including both of the Democratic contenders for governor, Bob Gammage and Chris Bell.

I remember the day that Chris Bell came to speak. It was a day in May with the temperature in the low thousands. Chris had offered to answer questions from our steering committee before the public meeting began, an offer we enthusiastically took up. Most of the questions were pretty much the standard sort of things you might ask a candidate; mine was maybe a little bit more off the wall:

“Democrats are looking for a candidate who can tear the head off of Rick Perry and kick it down Congress Avenue. Are you that candidate?”

Bell replied that it was an odd question… a question he really didn’t understand… but if I meant was he in the camapign for the long haul, then yes, he was going to stick it out all the way.

But Chris, that’s not what I asked. I asked if you are the candidate who will inspire us, unite us, and lead us to victory… and the fact that you couldn’t even grasp that idea was more than a little troubling.

Still, I fell into line like a good soldier. Sent Chris a few bucks when I could, posted on his blog now and then, tried to let everyone I knew know that the Democrats indeed had a candidate for governor, and by the way Kinky Friedman is an asshole and an idiot. When Bell came to Austin in August for his formal campaign announcement, I did what I could to get people to come to that event. By now Chris was focusing on something he called the “New Mainstream”. To be honest, I could never quite figure out what that was, or how it differred from the Old Mainstream, beyond the knowledge that it excluded a certain species of video and computer games.

By the fall I was getting pretty concerned. Between the Governor Goodhair/Carole 4Names Celebrity Death Match and Kinky’s buffoonery the Texas Democratic Party seemed to have fallen off the planet. Then came Bob Gammage. And he came out swinging, calling for excellence in education, a meaningful increase in the minimum wage and a guarentee to all Texans of their right to clean air and clean water.

I have no doubt that not only would Bob gleefully kick Goodhair’s head down Congress Avenue, he’d accompany it with a reasonable rendition of the Dean Scream.

Chris Bell has been collecting endorsements from from a bunch of newspapers across the state. They almost all praise him as the candidate who would be able to “work with Republicans”. Well, when we work with them, what do we get? Their solution for public education is to destroy it. Their solution to taxation is to increase the tax burden on the overwhelming majority of Texans and give a break to the wealthiest. The Republicans don’t have a single idea that would improve life for the all the people of Texas. They serve only the rich—the rest of you losers be damned!

We should not kid ourselves. Winning the governorship this year will be no easy task. Texas Democrats need a fighter at the top of the ticket, a fighter who will not only bring out voters for himself but for the rest of the ticket. That fighter is Bob Gammage.

Keep Austin Blue does not endorse candidates. The above is my personal opinion.

[Pilgrim4Progress]

6. I voted for Bob Gammage

I feel like Bob Gammage is the stronger, more experienced candidate for this job. He has more strength and energy than most folks half his age, and he's forgotten more about Texas government than most have ever learned. He can hit the ground running, once elected.

For Bob, this is not a career move. It's a "call to duty." One of his main goals has been to generate support for down-ballot candidates, not simply to achieve office for himself. His team spirit pervades everything he does and he generates enthusiasm among all those who work with him. His strong populist message will energize Texans of various political persuasions across the state. He will truly seek the common good.

And, besides all this, he's won several statewide races when he was the underdog. He knows how to do this, and I think he has the best chance to de-rail the regressive republican freight train and bring the entire Democratic ticket along with him.

I would love to have a leader of his stature at the helm in Texas.

[Czolgosz]

7. Why I support Gammage in a race with 2 good candidates

First, I want the Democrat to win. I believe we have a dramatically better chance of winning in a three-way race than in a four-way race. I've been working to bring Kinky voters into the party, and from my experiences talking to them, they don't like Bell at all because they think of him as a business-as-usual Democrat, and if Bell's the nominee, they aren't with us. Gammage's more progressive campaign will stand a much better chance of bring progressive Kinky supporters to the campaign and will take the wind out the sails on Kinky's petition drive. It think this is a make-or-break issue because I cannot see any possibility that we win a four-way race, and I think a Bell nomination greatly increases the possibility of a four-way race.

Second, I want to ensure that the future of the Texas Democratic party is progressive and populist rather than compromising and middle-of-the-road moderation. Gammage is the candidate from the progressive, populist wing of the party (some call it the Democratic wing of the party), and so long as the more progressive candidate has as good a chance at winning as the other candidate, I'd like to be counted among that progressive candidate's supporters. That's not to say I oppose more moderate candidates in those elections where a moderate can win but a progressive can't, but I don't see the governor's race as such an election (largely because of the Kinky/Carole 4n3p factor). I like Bell. I have met with him personally on two occasions. I think he represents a very good moderate choice, and he makes a good argument that a moderate may stand a better chance in November. If I agreed with Bell on his assumption that a moderate Democrat would stand a better chance in November, I would probably support Bell in this race, but I do not share this assumption

Finally, I generally do not place too much emphasis on endorsements, but some of Gammage's endorsements did weigh strongly with me: State Representative Senfronia Thompson, U.S. General Wesley Clark, Former U.S. Senator Bob Krueger, Texas House Democratic Caucus Chair Jim Dunnam, State Representative Aaron Pena, Former State Representative Debra Danberg, State Representative Lon Burnam, State Representative Harold Dutton, State Representative Marc Veasey, and State Representative Paul Moreno. This list represents less than a quarter of Gammage's endorsements, but these names are the ones that mattered most to me.

[Czolgosz]

8. Here's a DU Texas forum thread comparing the candidates on the issues

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=180x26203#26251>

[evelync]

9. I voted for Gammage and I've been volunteering for Gammage too.

I think this race should be looked at in the context of national politics. Anyone who has hopes for a major shift toward progressive government in this country should stop to consider the relentless and vicious machine we've been up against these last too many years. That machine has taken a beating in the polls lately but we know that in November there will be a fierce and vicious fight waged on behalf of the Bush/Cheney/Rove Texas clone in the Texas governor's race. I believe that Bob Gammage has the experience and the intestinal fortitude to fight back.
That said, I also believe that Bob Gammage is the best qualified candidate with almost 25 years of public service as reformer and progressive populist. As Governor of Texas, he would not buckle to special interests but would be committed to fairness and equity for the people of this State. I appreciate that Chris Bell challenged Tom DeLay on ethics in response to having been unfairly redistricted out of his seat in Congress. But that does not mean he has the experience or qualifications to fight the battle that awaits Democrats in November. And I am not comforted by some of Bell's votes when he served in Congress - voting for the Republican 2004 Omnibus Energy Bill including drilling in ANWR (no payoff for 10 years and then a nominal payoff that doesn't justify despoiling that pristine wilderness), voting for the Republican Bankruptcy Bill, voting for the Bush tax cuts. That's not my idea of reform or sound policy. We need someone who understands that business as usual by Bush and Company is getting this country into a financial ditch and a constitutional crisis. We need, as Ken Molberg said a "grownup" in the Governor's mansion.
And Bob Gammage has committed to working for down ballot candidates because he understands that only a committed team effort by people willing to fight for reform is necessary to get our state and our country back.

[johncoby2]

10. I like Chris.

The one thing he lacks is that roll up your sleaves, shake every hand like it is your last, and the fast pace of a candidate acting like he is behind in the polls.

But...that can be learned. (and it must be)

I like his stance on everything else. Well almost everything else. But pretty much everything else.

If we can get Texans to pull their heads out and THINK, Bell has a great chance. But that will be hard to do. Texans are generally stupid.

[muse]

11. I voted for Chris Bell today.

Great guy. I met him a year ago or so before he announced for governor and liked him as a person. He hates DeLay's guts. He had all the right qualifications for me early on, so I've stuck with him and never have personally had a reason to switch to Gammage.

[VelmaD]

12. I'm going to speak from the heart on this...

I like Chris Bell. I met him in person and had a chance to talk to him and see him interact in a very informal setting with some of the other Austin Democrats. I admire him standing up to Tom DeLay in the House. But...and this is a big but, I am VERY uncomfortable with his focus on the "New Mainstream"...whatever the hell that means. I don't think running to the middle is the right way to go...it sure as hell hasn't worked for Democrats in Texas for the last few cycles. It's time to do something different and put out candidates who have some passion. And I flat out just can't get excited about Chris Bell.

[Sooner75]

27. I've seen lots of good comments for both guys, but...

I'm with VelmaD on this. I think Chris Bell is a great guy and would be a great governor...osrta like Al Gore and John Kerry would have been good presidents. I'm just bone tired of losing to these GOP posers that frame themselves as protectors of the people and then spend every waking moment stickin' it to 'em. Being on the right side of things hasn't been very satisfying since we haven't have the power to drive actual policy. So....

I'm fairly certain that Bob Gammage is out there because a lot of Democrats don't see Chris Bell as the guy to turn the tide. Bob is in his 60s and frankly he doesn't NEED the job and he's not looking for bigger and better things. I think this is probably a one shot deal for him, but he's for real and he's Rick Perry's worst nightmare especially in a debate.

If Bell prevails in the primary, I'll go forward and support him same as most of y'all out there. But, since I know Bob better, I'd really like to see him the banner for us.

[gcole]

13. Gammage all the way

I'm pretty cynical about politicians in general, but I got to know Bob during the Wes Clark campaign and I assure you, he is the real deal.

[energyecon]

14. This I believe

I believe one person can make a difference, and on March 7th we will have the precious opportunity to make that difference by casting a ballot.

I believe that by dint of hard work and the courage of their convictions, small groups of progressive citizens can bring far reaching changes to our society and its institutions by persuading the larger citizenry of the justness of their cause.

I believe that sometimes these issues can be personified by an individual, a candidate who serves as the standard bearer for something larger than their own political interest or the moneyed special interests that exert so much influence in our politics.

I believe in this election that person is Bob Gammage, running in the Democratic primary for Governor of Texas. His record of service to country and community, his experience at the state and federal levels and his moral courage in taking on corrupt politicians - in the opposition and in his own party - demonstrate why he is the candidate best fit to lead our state in these troubled times.

That is why I have joined with many other Texans from across the state and volunteered my time, toil, and what treasure I can to help Bob Gammage bring his message of change and renewal to the citizens of this great state. That by working together we can improve the future for ourselves and our children, and his platform can be found on line at http://www.gammageforgovernor.com/ .

I believe I will make a difference on March 7th by casting my ballot for Bob Gammage.

[Lithos]

15. I like either one

Both would do a fine job if elected. Truthfully, my biggest worry is that people will get wound up here and damage whoever does win to the point that it hurts them in the General Election. As such I'm making it a point to highlight the positives with the idea that whoever does win comes out stronger, not weaker.

L-

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WestHoustonDem]

17. I'm a proud Chris Bell supporter

and will campaign for whoever wins the primary.

[boot@9]

18. my wife and I are

voting for Bob Gammage. We have met Bell and like him but Gammage is the better choice because of his support for state income tax and raising the minimum wage.

[johncoby2]

19. AMEN Sister!

Me too!

In response to "I'm a proud Chris Bell supporter
and will campaign for whoever wins the primary."

[Pilgrim4Progress]

20. Hello Friends

I recommended this thread yesterday because it started out as such a positive one, where people could share their personal reasons for supporting a candidate.

Most of the posts continued in that spirit. Just wanted to say thanks for that.

[johncoby2]

21. MOST? How about ALL except for one.

[Pilgrim4Progress]

22. OK

OK, let me rephrase -

I really appreciated all the positive posts - on behalf of both candidates - and wanted to commend them.

[johncoby2]

23. OK. Much better. Now stay in line. :-)

Darn its hard to keep us independent thinkers in line! :-)

[Lisa0825]

24. I agree.

When I posted an email from the Bell campaign a while ago, I ASKED FOR feedback from both sides on it. There is nothing bad about a good civil debate. I appreciate the folks who don't resort to smears, but instead choose to lift up their candidate by providing us with more information about him.

[w8liftinglady]

25. i saw chris bell on washington journal this morning re:redistricting

he was very well informed and has his facts straight.
http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=9&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=206&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=100&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

[Melissa G]

26. I was there for the blow by blow on Texas re redistricting..

Sonia and I kept each other company for most of it..I was deeply grateful for Chris' and others stand on the issue. ( Big Fan of Richard Raymond here..)

While I really appreciated Chris Bell's work, I did not find him that articulate then... Perhaps he has improved. It's sounding to me like Gammage may be the way to go. Thanks for folks' input on this thread.
It's been helpful (except for rumor mongering comments that don't rise to the typical level of well documented comment that we generally have on this forum that is...:eyes: )

[Melissa G]

28. I emailed my Dem savvy friend Alfred Stanley..

Here is what Alfred publicly wrote about this which is reprinted with permission of the author..

Melissa: Chris Bell first came to my attention when his ill-considered campaign against Houston's incumbent Democratic Mayor Lee Brown threw Brown into a harrowing runoff with Republican Orlando Sanchez. Brown, an African-American, is a revered figure in Houston's African-American community, which is arguably the most important Democratic voting bloc in the state. Bell built his career as a Houston City Councilman by being a strident and media-hungry critic of Brown's. The Harris County Republicans actually gave him an award for running against Lee Brown! After his defeat by Brown, Bell leveraged his name recognition and fund-raising network into becoming a one-term member of Congress. While in Congress, Bell voted for the Iraq war, for drilling in Alaska, for the Republican bankruptcy bill and for eliminating the estate tax. That's a lot of bad votes for one term in Congress. When Congressional redistricting cost Bell his seat, he filed an ethics complaint against Tom DeLay making Bell a hero to some who know very little about Bell's past as a darling of Houston Republicans. Basically, when he started hearing the loud sucking sound of his career going down the drain and had nothing left to lose, Bell finally stood up to DeLay. That's not heroism -- it's the same expediency that's been the hallmark of Chris Bell's political career from the beginning.

I'm glad that Gammage has given us a choice. He comes with a distinguished resume: State Rep, State Senator, Congressman, Appellate Judge, Texas Supreme Court Justice. He has impressed me with his energy and vitality including stomping up and down New Hampshire, Oklahoma and New Mexico campaigning for Wesley Clark. Bell's attacks on Gammage amount to nitpicking a career spanning more than 20 years in elective office, while in truth the theme of that career has been standing up for Democratic values. Former State Rep. Debra Danburg, for example, credits Bob with being a leader of pro-choice legislators before the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade. And today Bob is outspoken as a veteran opposed to the war in Iraq, the war that Chris Bell okayed.

Alfred Stanley

[lastliberalintexas]

29. Very succinctly stated

As most people in the southeastern section of the state know, Bell has unfortunately seemed on too many occasions to be a paid operative of the republican party. He's done more damage to more Democrats in Houston than the Harris County republicans could have dreamed, especially the charges aimed time and again at Mayor Brown. And what was the name of the other Councilperson that he was always railing against? I don't live in Houston, so I don't remember that many specifics from that time.

No, I do not think that he was actually a paid operative. His actions just made it *seem* that way far too often, just like the DLCers do nationwide. There have been plenty of times that Lieberman seems like an operative within our own party, and Bell is even more conservative than him.

I think Bell would be a good candidate, Gammage a great one. Either would likely be beaten in November, but Gammage could probably make it a little scarier for Perry than Bell.

[Melissa G]

30. whomever you choose..Remember to VOTE Tomorrow

if you did not already vote!