I want Casey to run against Sanitarium

[mrgorth]

Supposedly, he got more votes in PA this year than any democrat running for anything, ever. His pro-life stance would erode Sanitarium's base. I know he's a compromise for some of you but Sanitarium has to go. Anyone?

[PittLib]

1. No way

Barbara Hafer

[mrgorth]

2. She can't beat him.

Do you want Sanitation out or not?

[PittLib]

3. I disagree...

She's very well respected and a recovering republican. I most definetly want Santorum out ... but not by compromising my pro-choice stance.

On edit: I don't think Casey is all that popular either ... unless you're just trying to appease the "religious" with his pro-life stance.

[Cornus]

4. Please...

...don't refer to *them* as pro life. The new reference for *them* is that they are pro birth....once the child is born, they couldn't care less what happens next.

[PittLib]

5. Right-O

Sorry ...

[mrgorth]

8. So is a left leaning

populist democrat who just happens to favor SOME restrictions on abortion pro-birth or really pro-life?

[meow2u3]

27. The difference between Casey and Santorum

Casey will put his money where his mouth is, just like his dad did when he was governor. He may well try to get an abortion alternatives act passed in Congress, even if it's just to challenge Republicans to live up to their stated beliefs.

Santorum, on the other hand, is about as pro-life as Osama bin Laden. He talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.

[IrishDemocrat]

6. Hoeffel again or Chris Heinz

Here's why:

Joe Hoeffel- He did not do that bad against Specter considering he did not have the AFL-CIO in his corner and Specter is pro-choice. He now has name recognition, would get NARAL and the AFL-CIO on his side. I can forsee a victory with Hoeffel vs. Sanatarium

Chris Heinz- Problem is he's young. However, he's good looking (not to be gay), has money, and a legacy in Pennsylvania. Can self-finance. Also has added name rec from Kerry campaign. Hopefully Kerry voters would turn out for Chris Heinz which would likely translate to a victory.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

18. Strategy to oust Santorum....

How about shooting at the BIG ELEPHANT twice:


STEP 1 - Get Chris Heinz to agree to run in the PA Republican Primary AGAINST Santorum.

STEP 2 - Get a lot of PA dems to switch to Repub. registration just to vote in the PA Primary for Heinz against Santorum

STEP 3 - The PA Dems switch back to Dem party after the primary

STEP 4 - Hopefully it would be a Heinz (R) against Hoeffel? (D) in the general election

I would be happy with either Heinz or Hoeffel.

By the way, I am a moderate Republican who HATES the Republican party right now and Santorum is my public enemy #1.

[Freddie Stubbs]

7. The problem is that he doesn't want the job

He was urged to run in both 2000 and 2004 for the Senate. He declined both times saying that he did not want to be a legislator. There is one job that he does want, but Ed Rendell has it.

He is probably more confortable staying in Harrisburg serving in state-wide elected office than risking it and running for the Senate. He will bide his time, running for reelection as State Treasurer in 2008. Then he can run for Governor in 2010. If he is unsuccessful, he will be a may very well be the first Democrat elected as PA Attorney General in 2012.

[Township75]

9. That would be nice...

I would like a pro gun rights Dem to run for once...we might actually win something.

Klink could of won if the party and donors hadn't believed the polls showing him losing by 20 points.

[meow2u3]

10. I've been saying that for quite a while

...since Casey lost the primary in '02 to Rendell. Only I got shouted down by the purists who insist we have to run a pro-choice Dem against Bobblehead Ricky In 2000, the national Dem party, controlled by pro-choice ideologues (back abortion rights--or else!), effectively abandoned Klink and thus, cost us control of the Senate, because back then, they'd rather have lost a Senate seat to a regressive Rethug ideologue than support a neoprogressive Dem who could do us good because he disagreed with the leadership on one issue. Four years ago, the national party cut off its nose to spite its face, and we got stuck with Sanitarium until at least '06 (It makes me wonder who's calling whom the intolerant bigots).

It's up to us not to make that same mistake twice. We have to urge the national party to put their money where their mouths are regarding consistent-life Dems. The party should abandon its litmus test and help raise funds for these Democrats who don't exactly fit the mold, like Casey. Otherwise, we'll come across as the very hypocrites we routinely accuse Rethugs of being.

[mrgorth]

11. Here, here.

[Township75]

12. Well said...

they could run Klink again and I would be happy.

[IrishDemocrat]

14. People keep saying that

But my theory is we need the Dems of Montogmery and Bucks Counties to win this. Sure Northeast Philly Dems would be on board with a pro-life Dem, but we need a pro-choicer to energize Montgomery and Bucks Counties. Sure we will lose some conservative Dems, but chances are we were losing them anyway. A Hoeffel/Heinz would crossover liberal Republicans as well.

[Township75]

15. Hoeffel had his chance and not enough crossed-over...

granted Santorum is way more conservative than Specter. But recall that Santorum got 52% of the vote last time around. I don't think we can rely on a significant cross over vote for some one like Hoeffel.

[IrishDemocrat]

17. Not all about crossovers

Remember, a lot of Dems crossed over for Specter. Most likely, they won't be for Santorum. Also, Dems had incredible registration drives. They will be eager for 2006 to boot him.

[PittPoliSci]

13. there are a lot of reasons why klink lost.

that was just one of them. he ran a terrible campaign.

[Patiod]

16. Did he ever set foot west of Harrisburg?

No one at my polling place knew anything about him - was he "pro-life"? "Pro-choice?" Where was he on the gun issue? Death penalty?
He didn't even give us any flyers. It was the one time people were actually approaching us, ASKING for literature - they didn't want to vote for Santorum, but they weren't going to vote for someone they knew nothing about. Most of them just didn't vote for that office.

[PittPoliSci]

19. klink is from western pennsylvania.

i don't know much about him, but his campaign wasn't run very well, and thus why we got 6 more years of santorectum.

[demodonkey]

20. I know Ron Klink personally. He is a good guy.

I thought he was an excellent Congressman, was always very accessible to his constituents, and kept his original campaign promise to run for limited terms in the House.

He is anti-choice BUT he puts his money where his mouth is and has adopted two children and is a wonderful father to them.

Comes from a working-class background, became a journalist then later was a News Anchor for KDKA-TV 2 in Pittsburgh.

I think one of the problems with Ron's Senate run was that there were too many Dems fighting each other in the Primary. Used up a lot of campaign money and some of the negative stuff that the Dems threw at each other during the primary stuck. Also later the Re-thugs pulled their usual smear-crap, including hiring a helicopter to video Ron's house (which Ron's SON caught them doing, and video taped THEM using his own video camera.)

Ron came darn close to beating Saint Ricky, considering all. It really wasn't a total blowout; the margin was not THAT wide. I think a lot of people would like to see St. Ricky go.

For 2006, Dems need to stick together -- another Primary race with a gazillion candidates will not be in our best interest as far as getting Saint Ricky voted out.

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. The helecopter incident didn't happen when he was running for the Senate

It was during his 1998 reelection campaign against Mike Turzai.
Despite his mixed political lineage, Turzai’s first big campaign—his 1998 run for Congress—became one of the most bitterly partisan races in Southwestern Pennsylvania history. His campaign sent a helicopter out to photograph incumbent Democrat Ron Klink’s house, and had camera-toting operatives ambush Klink and shout provocative questions. Klink turned the incidents into a potent issue, and a week before the election, Turzai apologized for his campaign’s tactics. “He apologized, and I accepted it,” says Klink, now a government-relations consultant. “He changed that campaign overnight. Literally in a moment, it was a different campaign.” Klink won handily.


http://www.wqed.org/mag/features/0603_houseparties3html.shtml

[demodonkey]

22. O yes, you're right it was 98-- So many GOP smear campaigns, they all...

blur together... I guess what I remember is that the Re-thugs used that "info" they "learned" in 98 and smeared it around during the Senate campaign, at least around in my area... and not directly, you know, just the little innuendo, hmmmm the little "hint" that Ron wasn't really honest, you know... that he wouldn't answer questions; that he lives in a "rich" house in Murrysville while his constituents starve (as if St. Ricky doesn't, and in VA no less!) And they twisted it around into the vague idea that Ron was the one who had somehow attacked his opponent, and therefore he was bad news for years...

That's one way they operate... and they already started doing it it THIS time to a few potential Dem candidates who could put St. Ricky out in '06... mark my words, little GOP "Truths" discovered in past campaigns will come back to bite plenty of Dem candidates who might dare to challenge His Holiness in 2006!

Forewarned is forearmed.

[IrishDemocrat]

23. Can he go back and beat Melissa Hart?

I don't understand why a Club for Growth (Plutocracy) Republicans keeps winning Populist Democratic areas in PA-4. I'm from Phialdelphia. I would have no idea. If you cane xplain it that would be great.

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. Gun control and abortion

Hart and Phil English both represent districts which have more Democrats than Republicans. Many of these Democrats are union members or retirees. But they are also hunters and Catholics.

[hopein08]

41. English, yuck

He's my representative who promised that when he was elected (in 1994) he would stick to the Contract With America and serve no more than two terms. Six years after those two terms are up, we're still stuck with him!:grr:

But to clarify, English represents Erie County, Crawford County, and part of Mercer County. I live in Erie and it is very Democratic. The problem is that Crawford and Mercer and completely Republican. Hence, the long presence of English. That and there seem to be crappy alternatives. On a funny note, in 2002 English's opponent was a woman named AnDrea Benson and her slogan was "If you can read English, vote Benson."

When Bush came to Erie, the majority of the people who attended were either bused in by the Repubs from NY state or from Crawford and Mercer. Cheney visited the stronghold of Crawford. Kerry and Edwards both visited Erie.

But Chris Heinz has been mentioned in all this so I'll leave by saying that I read an article (which I cannot find now) that quoted English as saying that he wants Hart on the Ways and Means Committee so that if Chris Heinz runs against her, she'll have more to run on.

How can Chris say no to that for the House or the Senate?!

[demodonkey]

28. Answer...

Irish, are you asking if Ron Klink can or would go back and beat Hart? I don't know, I worked very hard for his campaigns, especially in his first couple of runs for the House (92, etc); later on my own family situation made it difficult for me to get involved in anything... but I still think Ron is a good, decent person. As a candidate he might not have been "left" enough for some Dems in the 90s (though good for the more conservative Dems in Western PA), and of course OTOH he draws the usual RW attacks from the GOP, as any Dem does, so...

All that said, my first reaction would be that I don't know why he'd want the aggravation of running again for office; he's been in business for himself now (and I think nothing wrong with that BTW)... but then just last night I saw Ron Klink go back to his TV anchor roots and host a Pittsburgh area political show "Nighttalk". Didn't see it all; I tuned in just as they were letting Saint Sanitarium have it about his recent "residency problem". The guests, a pretty conservative group BTW, brought up how Rick attacked his first opponent on the exact same issue, so how hypocritical and totally stupid it was for Ricky to even have gotten himself into this mess at all... (I have to think Ron was just loving this -- ha ha).

As far as why Western PA is so much working class Dem and yet voting Red... my own belief is that
1) it is the media here (we have Scaife's "little" local media empire here, plus the 50,000 watt "flagship" hate radio station KDKA, and others, screaming 24/7 how "bad" Dems are).
2) GOP has succeeded in demonizing organized labor; i.e. got people to actually believe that it was the unions' fault alone that the steel industry fell (this attitude may change though, as the Bushco union-busting gets more and more audacious -- as in look what "they" are doing to US Air employees and especially US Air pensioners)
3) we need to take back a lot of issues such as God and guns. Dems are absolutely as moral as the RW (more so!) and we don't want to confiscate anybody's hunting rifle. But we need to let people know that loud and clear.
4) (BIG ONE!) the local Western PA Dem party organizations are waaaayyyy too complacent... party leaders here now include a lot of very old, very sweet people who are pretty much clueless about how nasty and aggressive today's GOP has become.

For example, a week before this election, this so-called 'election of a lifetime', with JK/JE under national attack, and with our wonderful Dem State Senator Allen Kukovich "targeted" and under HORRIBLE local attack, for their monthly meeting my local Democratic Club held a "fun" Halloween costume party... then they did precious little (nothing, basically) to GOTV a couple of days later. And of course, in my once-strongly Dem Township, we took a real whipping on November 2.

WE CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE; Pennsylvania Dems (especially Western PA) have to get with it, get in touch with each other and with what is going on, get organized, and get aggressive.

IMHO.

[Township75]

30. I agree with #3 alot

But we have to go beyond treating guns and the 2A as only relating to hunting.

Plenty of people own handguns which are not used for hunting, so just stating that hunting rifles and shotguns are not up for banning is not good enough. Additionally, very few gun owners believe that banning guns such as assualt weapons will stop at assualt weapons.

I think gun control is pushed from within our party by people who live in DC, NYC, Boston and other parts of the country with a much different gun culture. It seems as if the party wants to push outside values on the state when they support gun control. This is one reason I believe Casey would demolish and Repub he went up against in PA. Hell, the only place he lost in the Dem primary in 2k2 was Philly.

[IrishDemocrat]

32. This sounds very similar to our local papers

Back here in Northeast Philadelphia, we have two local newspapers: The Northeast Times and the News Gleaner. While our big city papers slant heavily Dem, these neighborhood papers have a GOP slant especially the News Gleaner. I've read articles in both papers demonizing the Democrats as causing labor problems and being solely responsible for allowing Section 8 low income to expand into more neighborhoods. The GOP is unfortunately making inroads on local/qualtiy of life issues plus the Catholic church issues as well. The Archdioscese of Philadelphia has been covertly anti-Dem in the past 30 years.

I think our city-wide papers may have saved our hides here plus the fact Montgomery County is becoming drastically more Democratic. I find this funny because most of Montgomery County is fairly wealthy, but very socially liberal. Some have suggested while you guys took losses, the Philly suburban Dems were kicking it out.

[Patiod]

35. The Montco Repubs are gnashing their teeth

about losing the county, even though they thought they had gerrymandered themselves a nice safety margin.

One wingnut who was working the polls was explaining to me that the "good old" folks who used to vote Republican have "sold out" and moved to Florida, and the people buying their houses are bringing their "city values" out to Montco, and thus destroying it.

It's always educational to get a peek into these people's worlds.

By the way, I don't read it anymore, but it seems to me that the "Metro" paper that SEPTA gives out is kind of right-leaning. They strongly supported the war, and they have that idiot Clark DeLeon pontificating about rightwing nonsense.

[Joy Anne]

29. Klink campaign

He had two commercials running in central Pennsylvania:
1. That he was anti-choice, which would have led me to sit out the election, had he been running against Specter rather than Santorum.
2. That he was pro-education--he was from a working-class family, couldn't afford to go to college, and wanted college available for everybody. That led me to the conclusion that Klink was lazy or stupid or both. He's my age, and he could have gotten an education the way the rest of us working-class kids did--night school, community college, saving money, borrowing money. That he didn't bother negates his message: If he were truly pro-education, he would have gotten himself one.

I was disgusted that this guy won the primary. If he runs again, I'll sit on my hands, as will most of us liberals, and he surely won't get the southeastern liberal Republicans coming out in droves, which is what Democrats need to win statewide.

Re Bobby Jr., he's a good man, and I'll vote for him and work for him for any office that doesn't enable his anti-choice views, but not for attorney general, governor, senator, or representative.

[demodonkey]

33. Re: Klink Campaign

...from a working-class family, couldn't afford to go to college, and wanted college available for everybody. That led me to the conclusion that Klink was lazy or stupid or both. He's my age, and he could have gotten an education the way the rest of us working-class kids did--night school, community college, saving money, borrowing money. That he didn't bother negates his message: If he were truly pro-education, he would have gotten himself one.

No offense, but your remarks are incredibly elitist. Have you ever considered that a man who is intelligent and resourceful enough to rise to an anchor position in TV News, and then go on to serve several terms as a United States Congressman, all of this done without "benefit" of a college education, is neither lazy nor stupid? Apparently not, and that's a shame.

Since when is having a college education a prerequisite for being an industrious and intelligent person? Where is it written that only college graduates may espouse a belief in higher education being available to all? Or that it is somehow "wrong" for a person who was able to succeed in spite of not having a college background, wanting future generations to have the advantage that he did not?

Your post indicates you have a college education; I hold several college degrees myself. That alone does not inherently make either of us more or less fit for public service. If you are truly a liberal, you must accept that government, and service in it, ought to be open to all individuals based on the merits of what they can bring to the table in the way of ideas and ideals, not "credentials".

I was disgusted that this guy won the primary. If he runs again, I'll sit on my hands, as will most of us liberals, and he surely won't get the southeastern liberal Republicans coming out in droves, which is what Democrats need to win statewide.

As I said before, I really don't see Ron Klink wanting the aggravation again, but who knows... it was good to see him return to TV though.

As I also said on another thread, hopefully there will be a less-strident (and less cash-using) primary this time; if we really want to put St. Ricky out, it would behoove Dems to work out our issues and get behind someone as early as possible.

[Joy Anne]

34. You missed my point

His ad was all about how he was going to make college more accessible for young Pennsylvanians. He didn't have the opportunity; therefore, he was going to see to it that today's youths do have the opportunity. IMHO, he did have an opportunity that he didn't take; therefore, his ad makes no sense.

This was his only ad that ran multiple times. All anyone outside his congressional district knew about him was that he was anti-choice and didn't go to college. Ergo, he ran a lousy campaign.

BTW, I've read that Peter Jennings dropped out of high school in Canada at age 16.

[Cheswick2.0]

38. great let's work out our issues and find a candidate who is not

anti-choice. An anti-choice democrat can not win in Pa.

[corporatemedia]

24. Santorum CYBERGATE SCANDAL Links - updated 11/19/04 UPDATE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1004471&mesg_id=1006663&page=

[Penndems]

25. The Senate slot is Bob Casey's for the taking, if he wanted it

The man just won the Treasurer position with the highest vote margin of any candidate in the entire history of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. That's saying something, in anybody's book. It certainly got the attention of the Democratic National Committee.

Problem is, Bobby Casey doesn't WANT to be Senator--his family's in Scranton, he wants to be Governor in 2010, and he feels that his public service abilities are better served within PA. It would be up to Governor Rendell to convince him that it's time to "go national" (and Ed Rendell can be VERY persuasive).

[mrgorth]

31. Hmmm.

I think I know a tree I can bark up.

[Penndems]

36. LOL, well . . . Ed Rendell can be VERY persuasive. . .

But, in the end, it's strictly Casey's call. I have a hunch he'll continue to turn down any and all offers to run for Congress.

Unfortunately, IMHO. I met Bob Casey two years ago, and he struck me as a very honorable, decent man. He would certainly do Pennsylvania proud in Washington.

[Cheswick2.0]

37. his pro-life stance hurts more than it helps

the real nuts will not vote for him because he is a liberal democrat. Women won't vote for him because he is anti-choice.

[iwantmycountryback]

39. We don't have to compromise to beat Sandickhead

How many times in a row have pro-choice Democrat presidential candidates won PA? Somebody like Hoeffel again or perhaps Chris Heinz would be a fine choice. Hoeffel did pretty well against a 4-term moderate incumbent without the help of unions, which Democracts usually get.

[mdguss]

40. Casey Should Run:

I like Barbara Hafer, but there is another office she should run for...I voted for her when I was in Pennsylvania and she was still a Republican.

Casey should run for the Senate. He'd win. He'd get rid of Santorum (who meddles in state politics, and who--if defeated in 2006--would run for Governor in 2010). Casey would be a fine Senator. He's a principled guy. He has done great work as Auditor General, and he will still do great work as Treasurer.

At the federal level, Casey could use the Senate's oversight powers to make sure the publics money is being spent effectively. He could be a forceful advocate for unions, a higher minimum wage, etc. (Issues he cared about and emphasized in his 2002 campaign for Governor--I voted for him then).

Even so, it's likely that he won't run. He has a pretty big, and understandable, interest in state government. He's done a lot of good in Harrisburg, and he may feel that he could do more good there than in Washington.

I don't think running for Senate against Santorum precludes him running for Governor in 2010 or 2014. Further, I think he's probably the only candidate--and I still respect and would support Hafer--who could beat Santorum.

To get Casey to run, the Democratic Party would probably have to pledge its financial support to his campaign; the pro-choice people would probably have to agree to tolerate him (and quash any third party challenges); and Rendell would have to make it clear to people in the party that this was the guy we should nominate. Even if that were to happen, I'd say it's 70/30 against Casey running in 2006. I hope he runs, but I'm not counting on it.

[Joy Anne]

42. still antichoice

He'd have to make some pretty big promises about Supreme Court votes, family planning funding, etc., for me to want him as my senator. I became a Democrat in 2002 in order to vote for Rendell, whom I disliked when he was my mayor. (Rendell had a good point to make about unfunded mandates, but as his poster child he picked ADA curb cuts--while I was stuck in Somerton and couldn't push my late husband's wheelchair anywhere but around the block because the %#&@*% curb onto Bustleton Avenue was a foot high!)

[JPZenger]

43. Rendell Said Hafer, Casey or Hoeffel

Yesterday, Rendell said Hafer, Casey or Hoeffel would be good choices for the Senate. I believe Casey would be the most electable in the general election. He can appeal to the middle "heartland" of PA. I could live with one pro-life Senator if it would help get rid of that embarassment to PA. - Santorium.

I didn't see much evidence of an aggressive campaign by Hoeffel. He was almost invisible in the 3 big PA. newspapers I read.

Is Hafer that popular in Western PA.?

In any case, the Dems need to rally around the most electable candidate and try to avoid an expensive and divisive primary. However, having two good candidates running a positive campaign in the primary could be useful to get millions of dollars worth of free media attention about what the candidates are saying.

(Rendell also said he would run for re-election and serve a full 2nd term).

[Joy Anne]

44. here in the middle of the heartland of PA

is where I am. As far as Hafer, I'd have voted for her over Rendell, if the Republicans hadn't good-ole-boyed her out of the nomination.

[mdguss]

45. Casey would be a great Senator:

He's been a forceful advocate of a higher minimum wage. He's pro-union. His experience as state Auditor General would aid him in Congressional oversight responsibilities. I don't think that people should not vote for him because of one issue.

Further, Casey is pro-life. He advocates policies to make the lives of all Pennsylvanians and Americans better.

Santorum, on the other hand, is anti-choice. He pulls political stunts to get attention, and uses abortion as a means of gaining power.

Casey would beat Santorum. My guess is that Casey would vote for pro-life constitutional amendments and policies that would restrict abortion. But I doubt that he'd participate in a 30 hour hot air fest decrying Democratic policies on judges. Rick Santorum did, and would do so again.

Making the perfect the enemy of the good is why this party lost the last two elections. Bob Casey, Jr. is a good guy. He's great on economic issues. To not vote for him because of his views on abortion re-elects Senator Santorum. (For the record, I am a pro-life Democrat who votes for many, many pro-choice Democrats).