Red State refugees considering Portland or Eugene, any advice?

[Greyhound]

My SO and I just won't take this anymore and want to live where sanity still has value. I've lived all over the country, while she has always been a desert dweller. Aside from the usual complaints, I loved living in LA, but found Northern California far too regulated. I've never had any trouble getting along with people of all political stripes in the past, but the intolerance and bigotry here is unbearable.

There are no knee-biters involved, so quality of school districts and "family friendly" are irrelevant, possibly a detriment if the area is controlled by the "won't somebody think of the children" crowd. We are not interested in the slow-death of living in the suburbs but she appreciates the country lifestyle and I am adaptable. We want to be near where things are happening and after 5 years of the *Co. economy we have pretty limited means and will, in essence, be starting over.

Any information about jobs (political activism, high tech sales & service, management), particularly smaller companies where integrity is more than a buzz-word

housing (we'll be renting & have four dogs), neighborhoods to avoid, are the historical districts at all affordable, high speed internet access is a must

where's the best Trader Joe's, public transportation, libraries, shopping choices that support local independent businesses & farmers markets, non-chain restaurants, do you know a good chiropractor, where do the "weird people" live and go

These are the sorts of things we're looking for and any and all help & advice is greatly appreciated. :hippie: :toast:

[Greyhound]

1. 3rd day kick

:kick:
Nobody want to help us?

[mcking]

2. I lived in Eugene for 13 years

but have been away from there (in a mid-Willamette valley redneck town) for about 20 years now. My ex still lives in Eugene. It's very possible to live a "country" kind of lifestyle even in the city. My daughter resisted living there for years, but eventually did move there and loved it. Jobs can be a problem because of an oversupply of U of Oregon graduates. Daughter now lives in the San Juan islands in WA and is making roughly double what she made in Eugene.

Eugene is a very liberal town, Portland just slightly less so. If you do choose Eugene, you may want to avoid Springfield (just across the river), as that's were all the RWers tend to congregate. At least, that was true 20 years ago.

Sorry I can't give you more detailed info. Personally, I'm considering moving to Washington, even though I've been an Oregonian my whole life. The employment situation here is getting me down.

[SeattleGirl]

12. Hi mcking!

Just a word on Springfield. I know at least 5 liberals there -- my sisters, my BIL's and my mom. I graduated from Springfield High School (many years ago). I do agree that Springfield is no where as liberal as Eugene, but when I go down there to visit family, so far no one has run into me or keyed my car for my DU and Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers in the back window of my car. :hi:

[Nostradammit]

15. We are taking over Springfield.

We may end up driving them all the way up the McKenzie! Most of my neighbors are liberal around here,
and most of the ones who are aren't seem to have caught on to the Bush con game.

Eugene is almost Portland expensive by now, but it's a hell of a lot more convenient to the good places in the area.
There are three bridges that connect the towns, so it's not too hard to get over there.
Eugene has a less "growth friendly" attitude than Springfield; most of the larger businesses
are springing up on this side. Maybe ten years from now, all us hippies who bought in Springfield
will look like geniuses, but it's often a surreal experience to be surrounded by so much
All-American ignorance like we have. However, Eugene is almost overpopulated with a certain burn-out type who can wear on you.
And do not, repeat- DO NOT expect to make much money around here. Lots of people willing to trade the spiritual
and environmental opportunities for the financial ones. And we live at the end of a most fertile, organically-farmed valley,
so the food is often fresh, fresh, fresh.

Portland is the only large city in the U.S. worth considering, in my mind. My sister says it has a "benign seediness" that she
likes, and I concur. It rains more up there, so you gotta have a lot of indoor hobbies or you'll go nuts. Stress this fact
to your SO. It rains a lot around here, and if it's not raining it's usually overcast half the year. We came from Colorado years
ago and thought we were prepared but, yikes, Winter can seem interminable.

Hope you enjoy wherever you land.Hope any of that helps...

[MissB]

3. Portland is a bit expensive, from a housing standpoint.

If you're planning on moving to Pdx, consider the Eastside. It is more affordable and there are plenty of happening areas. NE Portland was awfully scary 15 years ago, but now it is full of families and artsy places. Either SE or NE are great places. Some will say N Portland, but I wouldn't only because I am less familiar with that area. I like SE up to about SE 60th and not any farther south than Powell Blvd, and NE up to oh, not any farther north than Columbia Blvd or so. There are wonderful walking areas around Hawthorne Blvd between downtown and 60th, and NE Alberta Street is pretty cool too.

The Pearl is a wonderful place, but far too expensive. Don't get sucked into the suburbs of Gresham, Hillsboro or Beaverton. Just because they are on the public transportation lines doesn't make them wonderful places to live. (No offense intended towards DUers that happen to live there.)

Check oregonlive.com for job listings. http://www.oregonlive.com/jobs/

They also have a rental section. http://realestate.oregonlive.com/?classification=real+estate&temp_type=search&property=oregonlive.com&finder=hfr

http://www.oregonlive.com/nowrentingguide/index.ssf

Pretty much any Trader Joes is a good Trader Joes. There's one on 39th just south of Powell, one on Burnside somewhere around 22nd or so and I'm sure there are more.

Trimet.org will give you an idea about the public transportation system in Portland. As Lydia Leftcoast once put it (paraphrasing), Portland figured out how to get people around town without a car. You can use your ticket or pass on Max (light rail system), the bus or in some parts of town the trolley system. Downtown Pdx is fareless square (though you can ride over the bridge to the first couple of Lloyd Center stops) and many employers offer a subsidized pass. Dh's company, for instance, offers a yearly pass for just over $100, a huge savings.

Portland is also very bike friendly if you like biking.

The downtown library is hands down the best, but many of their satellite libraries are excellent. I usually order things into my closest branch (which is a free service and maybe adds a day or two wait).

I have high-speed internet access and I live on the edge of Pdx. There is a farmers market downtown on the weekends and on the eastside on Wednesdays. Portland's Saturday Market is pretty much legendary.

If you're into books, then Powells Books is a must-see. Their Burnside store is the best.

I don't know a good chiropractor. There are plenty around. There is quite a few of them on Hawthorne from 39th down. Weird people tend to go to Hawthorne.

If you take a trip here, check out Kennedy School - it's an old elementary school turned into a brewpub by the McMenamin's brothers. It'll give you a reasonable idea of what that part of Pdx is like.

[0rganism]

4. Desert dwelling wife? Visit in December before you leap into the lake

I say this to everyone who asks, tho, not just the desert natives. Remember please that NW Oregon has 4-6 months/year of semi-continuous cold rain. Yes, Virginia, "sun break" is actually a meaningful word in weather forecasts here. So with that in mind...

High-tech is pretty iffy around here lately, what with Intel amputating random parts of its workforce and shipping its fab jobs to SE Asia. A lot of the smaller tech firms in the area do business with Intel, so it's looking like the udders on the cash cow are running dry. I suspect the mid-income job growth is going to be mostly in medical services and adult re-education. Anway, check out sites like http://www.employment.oregon.gov as they do keep stats on the major players.

If you want to live in Portland, be prepared to get some pretty stinky terms on housing unless you're bringing a fair bit of capital with you. Houses here aren't a bad investment, tho, and you'll have a fun time trying to rent a place with four dogs in the city. If you're really "starting over" as you say, there are probably easier places to do it than Portland.

[Stargazer09]

14. I agree about the climate

Portland is not the place to be if your wife prefers the desert. However, east of the Cascades is a good place to live, too. Bend has grown exponentially in recent years, and the climate there is quite dry. They call it "high desert," because you're at a fairly decent altitude, but it's not wet and rainy like western Oregon.

You can live in one of the outlying areas (Redmond, Prineville, LaPine) and still be within an easy drive of a fairly large city. I'm sure that real estate in Bend is nearly as expensive as Portland by now, but you should still be able to find affordable housing outside of town.

Granted, I haven't lived in Oregon since 1990, due to the military, but I am still a legal resident of Deschutes county, and I try to keep track things back home.

Politically, that area seems evenly split rather than leaning progressive. I'm not too happy about that, but it is my home, and all I can do is vote for the candidates who share my political beliefs.

I also agree with the others who say that Californians are not really welcome in Oregon. There have been enough bad apples to make all of you smell bad. No offense intended. If I were you, I wouldn't advertise your affiliation with California.

Good luck!

[exlrrp]

5. Sounds like Eugene is more your style

I live in a litle town on the edge of the W Valley, but slightly up in the hills, about 30 miles north of Eugene.
My wife and I sold our CA holdings last year, bought this place and moved up here from the Bay Area.
I agree, come up here and stay a while, through the wet season, to see if you like it. I have to say as a Californian, I was pleasantly surprised--its not half as bad as paople say. I think the weather here is mostly delightful and sets off the gorgeous scenery.
I was born and grew up in Berkeley and I say Eugene is the closest thing to it on the West Coast but a lot better, sort of where Berkeley was 40 years ago (minus the protests) A mellow, hip community in a pretty place. There's everything you need here,all the stores CA has, including Trader Joes (the first thing my wife looked for) plus, largely because of the UO, all kinds of cultural activities: theaters, music venues, etc. Last weekend they had a big multi stage music festival right downtown. Very bicycle friendly, recycling, etc
Re the dogs: try looking for a place to rent slightly out of town where you can get some acreage. We have 10 acres on the top of a hill, surrounded by private lumber lands--like living in a huge park which gives us plenty of room to roam and we have 5 pit bulls (all friendly family dogs) You should be able to rent a place with acreage for around $800--900/month. I might say here that Portland was just selected as the most dog friendly city in the US. Eugene isn't far behind.
I like Portland a lot too, its become my favorite West Coast City. Both Portland and Eugene have excellent public transportation, even extending into the rural districts.
And finally, Oregon is blue and will stay blue for the forseeable future, which was also a consideration for me. I sort of stumbled on to this place when I worked on the Swing State Project 2 years ago. There's plenty of liberals around here, some still flying their Kerry/Edwards stickers. When I saw all the Kerry/ Edwards signs, even in the rural districts, I knew I could live here
Good Luck!

[grasswire]

7. argghhh!

You wrote: "its not half as bad as paople say"

#$#^*^ that!!

It wasn't bad in any way until Californians started liquidating their holdings and making a beeline here because they had fouled their own nest down there. Damn your arrogance!

[exlrrp]

16. First of all, get this straight:

I haven't fouled any nest in California--I left it better than when I started. You may be happy making sweeping statments against California and if so, Stick it! Your prejudices outshine your intelligence
Dam YOUR fucking arrogance! You don't own this state and i didn't need your permission or approval to move here or to make comments about it. I sure have met a bunch of people from Oregon living in CA and we never subjected them to the BS you put down here. You ought to look at your own attitude before you slam other people's
Oregon is my home now but Ca is still a great state. Fortunately the attitude you show here is not reflected in the rest of the population,.
Thanks for the welcome

[grasswire]

6. ordinarily I am opposed to encouraging Californians to relocate to Oregon.

...and you may find this sentiment prevalent with Oregon natives, as Californians escaping their own state wreckage have changed Oregon in ways many here don't appreciate. And I really would like more people who will vote FOR school bonds instead of AGAINST them in Portland. However, if you promise to live with good Democratic values, here are some hints.

Southeast Portland is everything you want, I think, as far as lifestyle. Your problem will probably be finding a place that will take four dogs. It's not impossible, but it will be difficult. Your best bet is to keep checking the listings at craigslist.org. Sometimes a landlord will adore dogs and be amenable to allowing multiples.

Okay, here's an example of an actual rental scenario. A family member rents a small house on the South side of Mount Tabor, in southeast. Quiet neighborhood, and the large fenced lot backs right up to the city park, making it very desirable. They have two dogs and a cat. The house is small and required a lot of cleanup and work and yard work. The rent is about $1100. Another family member lives in a craftsman style house built in 1912 with 1500 square feet in a really lovely quiet, tree-lined southeast street just two blocks from Hawthorne Blvd, for $1350. Apartments, of course, are cheaper but there you've got four dogs in a small space with probably no yard.

Two Trader Joe's are easily available on the East side -- the one on southeast 39th, and one in the Hollywood District in Northeast. Both are accessible by the same bus, easily. There's also a people's food co-op grocery in Southeast, and several farmers markets open a good part of the year. Also a place on 41st and Hawthorne called the Daily Grind -- a vegetarian and natural foods grocery.

[exlrrp]

17. Oh Yeah??

Several years ago, a friend of mine was driving to Seattle from CA. On the way through Oregon yahoos in a pickup truck made nasty comments about her and CA and tried to run her off the road. They followed her for miles gving her a hard time, telling her to get out of Oregon, go back to CA.
These musst be friends of yours, they have the same attitude. But you need to know I'm not a single woman in a car by herself for someone to bully and threaten. Someone who shows me that attitude will regret it--one of the things that Oregon is better at than CA is gun laws and I carry one just for people like that.
Highway 5 runs a long way through 3 beautiful states. None of them are better than any other. Paste it in your hat for future reference

[grasswire]

18. if they're all equal, then why are Californians..

...fleeing their state?

Seriously, you don't sound like an Oregonian at all.

[exlrrp]

19. And neither do you, you provincial lout!

Everybody Ive met in Oregon so far has been really terrific and welcoming--up til now. I had heard about Anti Californian sentiment before but had discounted them as apocryphal. Now I see theyre alive and well. Thats going to change now that I'm here. I'm going to confront that bullsht wherever I find it.
Where the #$%^&^ do you get off with your Bullsht judgements about millions of people's motives for doing things? You don't know me or anything about me, or any of the other people who enter or leave California but that doesn't stop you from saying I "flee my state after fouling my nest!!" Screw you Jack and double screw you for spreading foul and damnable lies about people you know nothing about. I only wish I could say this to your face.
Do you know why everybody who leaves CA or any place else does so? I doubt it but that doesn't stop you from relying on your own prejudices for information.
You damn me for my arrogance (for making an inocent remark about the weather) Someone who is as prone to making sweeping insulting statements tarring 30 million people with the same brush has nothing to teach me about arrogance and no one so willing and eager to insult his neighbors based on his own prejudice has anything to teach me about class either. The worst thing about living in CAliforia is having people like you for neighbors.
Next time your yahoo friends and soul mates go out harassing Californians, insulting them and running them off the road, best tell them in advance to stay out of Linn County--there's an ex Californian looking for people just like that. And its not an unarmed single woman out on the road by herself.
Have a Nice Day (still talking like a Californian, I see)

[Greyhound]

20. Since I've seen the Californication process up-close and personal

three times now, perhaps I can provide an explanation why so many people get upset. All the usual stuff, particularly creating hyper-inflation of housing costs, is true but understandable. The big problem I've seen (and this isn't exclusive to Californians) is too many refuse to adapt to their new homes and insist on trying to make the new state like California.

When they invaded Georgia in the early 90's, they ridiculed and scorned the southern tradition, made fun of their accents, and brought the very "casual" social practices with them. The best example I can think of is the distinctly Californian practice of accepting an invitation to an event and then just not showing up, this is a terrible affront to Southerners and pretty much ensures there will be no future invitations and the resulting animosity. When someone in the south throws a party, it is a big deal, menus and activities are planned and considerable time, money, and effort are put into it, as opposed to the typical California "get-together", order a few pizzas buy a keg and open the front door. Instead of following the wisdom of "while in Rome..." they try to impose their beliefs and values on those that don't share them. Also, when they come, the nanny-state invariably follows them.

Disclaimer: Not all Californians are like this, so if you're a Californian and you don't do this, I'm not talking about you, OK.

[Stargazer09]

21. Great post!

What you said in your post, Greyhound1966, is right on target. Most of the Californians we knew refused to try to fit in.

Since I joined the military in 1985, I've lived in many different states, including one in the south, and I've traveled to Germany and Italy. I've seen first hand how some people will act like complete jerks to anybody who doesn't talk like them or look like them. One of my sons, who was raised in Washington state, was constantly teased about his accent when we lived in Louisiana. The school was full of military kids, and you'd think that the "locals" would be used to differences by middle school. It didn't matter that my son did everything that he could to fit in. They still made fun of him. They still bullied him.

The Oregon/California "problem" is not exclusive to Oregon. No matter where I've lived, outsiders were usually not tolerated. Only those people who made sincere efforts to adapt to the cultures in their new home would find acceptance, and that only came shortly before the orders came down to move. All that work to get accepted, only to say goodbye, is part of military life.

One thing that I really have a problem with is people who claim to be Oregonians simply to get the low car registration rates. I pay taxes to the state of Oregon. I vote there. My parents are no longer living, but their last home is my official home of record (and yes, Oregon knows that). I have the same driver's license number I had when I first learned to drive twenty years ago. My car is registered in the state of Oregon. My husband, who is a Texan, has his car registered in Texas and maintains his Texas driver's license. On military bases around the country, you will see hundreds of cars with Oregon tags on them. Most of the drivers are not Oregonians, and if I were a vindictive person, I'd report every one of them to the state for investigation. For instance, I saw one guy at my apartment complex years ago. He got out of his car, which had Oregon plates on them, and being my normal friendly self, I asked him what part of Oregon he was from. He said, "I went to college at Oregon State, in Eugene." I just shook my head and left.

I personally don't think that you will have any problems moving to Oregon. You seem to have a good attitude about adapting to your surroundings, rather than coming in and stomping on your neighbors. Best of luck to you!

:hi:

[Greyhound]

8. Wow, thank you all very much. I haven't checked for a week and this

really made my day.

As to the extended gloom, this is a big concern for me as well. I know it affected me in Atlanta but had luck with the daylight(?) bulbs, but Ms. greyhound has never lived anyplace like that, we'll be discussing this this week so any additional info in this area is appreciated.

I am a Colorado native so I am very familiar with invaders from other states ruining yours and I promise we are both adaptive to our environments rather than fighting it like many Californians do. BTW, I also saw the same thing happen in Atlanta in the late 80's, except it was mainly people from New York, New Jersey, and Boston. I feel the whole point of moving to a different place is to learn about that place and how to best get along, the people that have called it home for generations probably know a whole lot more about it than I.

Have enough Arizonans moved there to have made a reputation I should know about?

Anyway, thanks for all of the great information, it will be put to use and I'll keep updating this thread. :applause:

[sandnsea]

10. "I live in the rain"

I moved here when I was in high school and my first winter was a huge flood, I swear it started raining in October and didn't stop until May. When I moved to the coast about 10 years ago, there were some rough days. I just consciously told myself "I live in the rain". Now, I can't imagine living anywhere else. I've done below zero in Montana, sweltering humidity in the south, 115 in CA & NV... the rain is a snap. From Nov-Feb, we usually get about 3 days rain, 2 days gloom, 2-3 sun - and it cycles through again. But after Montana - we also get flowers in February and that is pretty dang cool after having to wait until at last April for the snow to even stop. The valley is different, but here on the coast it almost never gets below 45 or over 80, during the day. Absolutely delightful, the rain is barely even an annoyance to me now. If we want some snow or heat, it's a 30 minute drive. What more could anyone want? (Well, higher wages and cheaper housing, but can't have it all I guess)

[murphymom]

9. 6 year Eugene resident

Re shopping: we have a Costco, a Trader Joe's, Safeway, Albertsons, an upscale Oregon-based market (Market of Choice w/4 stores in town), at least 3 health food stores that I'm aware of, an Asian market, and the Lane County Farmers Market, which runs Saturday and Tuesday downtown, and at the fairgrounds on Thursdays (I think). Several local farms offer CSAs and there are farm stands north of town.

Within a half-hour or so drive from town there are a good half-dozen wineries that offer tastings.

Lots of non-chain restaurants in town, many options if you are vegetarian or into healthy food choices.

Fairly new beautiful big downtown library. I believe for a fee you can also get a card to use the University library.

Lane County Transit (www.ltd.org) is the bus system in town (and the surrounding area). My only experience with it is the Duck Express - busses that take fans from 11 park and ride lots to Autzen Stadium (football) on game day. Great system for conveying massive quantities of people to and from the game - we take it .

Regarding politics, for every two Eugene residents there are at least 3 wildly conflicting opinions on any issue. There are the usual battles between the developers and people who want to preserve quality of life.

We are self-employed and brought our clients with us when we moved, so I'm not much help regarding job opportunities here - I don't really know.

The school year at U of O affects the town - summers are pretty quiet when the kids leave, which is actually kind of nice for the locals.

Weather: summer is drop-dead gorgeous here, fall is lovely and we get a lot more fall color than in California (where I'm from), spring is cool and wet and full of flowers - I think it's the law that you have to have at least one rhododendron in your yard :-). Winters can be cold, wet and dreary - but your own temperment will determine how you feel about them. I personally find the rain very calming and soothing and I actually start to get nervous when we go too long without it.

Couple of things to consider: if you have pollen allergies, I suggest you come during the worst of the season to see how you do before you consider moving here. Some people have a very hard time with it. Another thing, there is not a lot of racial/ethnic diversity here. I came from an area with a much more diverse population and that is one thing I do miss.

[classof56]

11. Have you considered Central Oregon at all?

I've lived all over Oregon (also did time in Washington and Colorado) and to me, the just-east-of-the-Cascades area is far and away the best. Growing like crazy, real estate prices going out of sight, a few traffic issues that don't really bother me all that much--these are some downsides, but the upside is the incomparable beauty and round-the-clock enjoyment of just being here...

Of course, if you choose Eugene (been there, done that), the Bend/Redmond area is not that far over the mountains.

Just a thought...!

I used to have a problem w/Californians migrating to our state (I recall the "Don't Californicate Colorado" bumper stickers when I lived there), but now I just figure if CA types are intelligent enough to leave there and move up here to God's country--welcome!

Class of 56

[Greyhound]

13. At this point it seems the relative job markets will be the primary

consideration in our eventual location, and it looks like Portland is the most likely.

LOL, :rofl: the Californication of Colorado actually took place after I left. The primary source of invaders I went through was Texas, and they came in droves and pushed us into the red column, not that Colorado was ever a bastion of the left-wing, but Denver was thoroughly blue and, due to the concentration of population in the city, always dragged the rest of the state along.

Anyway, it will be so nice to stop biting my tongue all the time as, after almost four years, it is quite sore. :toast: