Thinking about Oregon: Potential migrants want opinions

[politicat]

The Love of my Life and I have decided that we really can't take too many more Colorado summers - hot, dry and fiery. So we have shortlisted several states as potential new homes while I get another master's in either Spanish or Slovak languages and he gets his DPhil in robotics. Oregon is on the short list.

So the questions we have are:
1. Would out-of-staters be welcome? (In Colorado, they're not really welcome.)
2. Would we be able to find work? (He, senior level programmer/architect; me medieval historian or psychologist.)
3. Are the state universities good for post-grad work?
4. Is housing available for less than the $350,000 average house price in this area?
5. What would you, as a resident of your state, warn us to be careful about?

Thanks!

[greenman3610]

1. a friend, recent Oregon transplant, writes:

"Outside of the sanity of Portland, Oregon is a Conservative LOGGING state and the views expressed in the essay would get you fucked up but good by some unemployed logger. I generally have to keep my mouth shut with regard to these issues. The local paper has actually published letters to the editor that threatened to "run off the road" any person with a Kerry bumper sticker. There is a bar a bit north of me that has no toilet paper in the men's john (true). The bathroom has several dead birds brought in by locals and a sign that says "Wipe Your Ass With A Spotted Owl." True."

[Blue Topaz]

9. Have they never heard of Corvallis, Eugene, or Ashland?

Portland is definitely the largest, but Oregon has several college town hotbeds of liberalism!

Regarding the OP, you could buy a helluva lot of house in Oregon for $350,000, especially outside Portland. It does rain here, but not as much as people think. Worse for some people is just the gray skies; it is overcast here about 8 months out of the year (though not without heartbreakingly beautiful breaks). We have hot, dry summers that generally run from late June to early October. It is an outdoor paradise here, with hiking, skiing, mountain biking, and an entire coastline of public beach.

I second the caution about K-12 funding. I have school age kids and am still bitter about the way Oregon voters were convinced to permanently fuck up our schools.

[Nostradammit]

2. Are you willing to work for a lot less?

A whole lot less? It's called the Mississippi of the West coast for a reason. You like rain? Really like rain? Can you occupy yourself for days on end with indoor activities?

[roguevalley]

3. I grew up in Oregon and my experience living in a red place as the

daughter of a logger was just fine and dandy. Oregon has EVERYTHING and wonderful places to live. The Portland area usually thinks they ARE the state and everyone else is a squarehead. Frankly, I am tired of that stereotype. Eugene down is the southern part of the state. I grew up in the rogue valley and loved it. Medford is the biggest city there with Ashland, a college town and cultural center, nearby.

The rain used to be greater when I was a kid. The rains come but you can live with it. The summers in August are very hot. Its got every kind of weather and terrain possible from sand dunes to rain forests. Urban and rural mixes, nice small towns, farming. I love it dearly. Its the home I think of when someone asks me where I come from.

There are liberals and conservatives. I have never been bothered for my progressive beliefs and you will be amazed at the diversity. Go and be happy. I was.

[Nostradammit]

4. Hey, roguevalley, keep it under your hat a little, willya?

;-)

[insanity]

5. Yeah

Oregon has a lot of nice places. The Rogue Valley in my mind is one of the most gorgeous places in the pacific northwest. Even though Portland and Eugene are the liberal havens, Southern Oregon has Ashland, and overall the entire region cares about the environment.

[politicat]

7. Thanks for the honesty.

Money, yeah, well... we can work for less.

We love rain. And yes, we both have gamer tendencies and I basically write and talk people through crises for a living. Neither of which are necessarily outdoor activities.

Thanks again. I get some indication that we'd be better off elsewhere from you. That works. (I'd rather be east coast, frankly. There aren't any renaissance habitation sites on the West Coast, and getting to Iceland is hard enough from Colorado.)

Thanks again.

[funflower]

18. I'd forgotten how humble our lifestyle is until I spent some time w/

relatives in other states. They have comparable jobs but MUCH wealthier lifestyles than we do here in PDX. Wages here are low, and the cost of living is high. However, I LOVE this state and wouldn't trade it for all of the beach houses on the Atlantic coast.

[kostya]

19. Funny. If you can't handle a little moisture then yes, definitely not

the place for you. We Oregonians don't let anything short of a downpour to keep us indoors. :)

And actually, the Portland area has 50/50 sunny/cloudy skies on average, though unlike many places with equal annual rainfall, ours is spread out mostly from Nov through April/May. The summers are spectacular. Not unusual to get 60-90 days of no rain and low humidity.

[0rganism]

6. To answer your questions...

First, a caveat:
> Colorado summers - hot, dry and fiery

Oregon's forests and tree farms have their share of fires, too. You won't be leaving that behind entirely.

> 1. Would out-of-staters be welcome? (In Colorado, they're not really welcome.)

Yeah, pretty much. The whole "native Oregonian" thing gets overplayed, cos it seems like most of the folks who live here moved from somewhere else. Especially in the urban areas, you'll find whole bunches of people who came not just from another state, but from another continent.

> 2. Would we be able to find work? (He, senior level
> programmer/architect; me medieval historian or psychologist.)

Yes. Urban Oregon has lots of opportunities for programmers and psychologists. If you're into writing books, the gloomy rains we get in western Oregon half the year can be a great incentive to get in touch with your cloistered monk-like alter-ego.

> 3. Are the state universities good for post-grad work?

Probably better for grad and post-grad than undergrad, I'd guess, due to overcrowding. You'll have a few places to choose from, and there are some opportunities for part-time associate professorships at area community colleges if you can't get hired on at your school of choice.

> 4. Is housing available for less than the $350,000 average house
> price in this area?

Yes. Although prices have gone up sharply over the last decade, $350k still buys you a lot of house in Oregon, even in the university towns.

> 5. What would you, as a resident of your state, warn us to be careful about?

Thing number one would be the public school system, which has been in sharp decline since Grover Norquist decided to make Oregon a poster child for tax slashing and established a puppet program through local tax activist Bill Sizemore. That's going to affect your higher-ed possibilities, too, though you won't suffer as a post-grad the way the K-12 do. However, until you establish state residency (one year of local employment should do it), expect to get REAMED on tuition.

[DesEtoiles]

23. New to Oregon

I love photography and I am constantly looking for the great shots. Oregon is great for landscape photography.

If you like natural beauty, plenty of easy road trips - Columbia Gorge, Multnomah Falls, Mt. Hood, St. Helen's, Cannon Beach, Astoria, Crater Lake, Bend. Haven't yet been to the high desert but I can't wait to see it.

Easier to get to California, Hawaii for vaction.

It may be the case that the schools are suffering, but at least you know your kids are growing up with your values (instead of being bigoted rednecks).

[CascadeTide]

8. I moved to Portland from a red state and love it here

1. Out-of-staters are definitely welcome in every area I've been in. I haven't spent any time in the Klamath Falls area but pretty much everywhere else the people have been great.

2. Work can be harder to find than other areas and salaries are a little lower but cost of living is fairly low. I don't make as much as I have in other states but I also don't spend as much and therefore don't need as much. I guess that all depends on what kind of lifestyle you have and want.

3. I'm not qualified to comment on this...

4. There is still affordable housing around Portland but it's becoming more scarce. There are still some neighborhoods in Portland that are seen as less desireable but, compared to most other areas, there are no dangerous parts of town. If you end up somewhere else it's likely you can find a nice house for less than 350k.

5. I would warn out of staters to not listen to the gloom-and-doom locals that seem to play up the downside of Oregon to keep people away for whatever reason. This really is a great place to live and full of great people. I welcome the steady influx of optimistic people.

[grasswire]

10. easy for you to say!

Native Oregonians have seen a horrible decline in liveability since the massive influx of Californians (who had ruined their own state) arrived in the last couple of decades. Housing costs were driven up, the particular local culture was polluted, and so natives are naturally wary of the particular pressures that immigrants will bring. No one likes their home town crowded by people who want to change it.

[Tom Kitten]

11. since you say you are a native...

do you mind me asking what tribe you are affiliated with?

I moved here from California in 1969, when I was twelve years old...But it wasn't my fault...my parents forced my youger sister and I to "immigrate" here, along with them...I really didn't have a say in the matter...I do have to say arriving here was a culture shock...everything seemed so backwoods here but I couldn't worry about it because I had to deal with growing up here!

So tell me exactly how I have I driven up your housing costs and polluted your particular local culture?

[CascadeTide]

12. I wish people would give specifics when taking this stand

What is it that changed so much that is specific to Californians? How has local culture been polluted?

Housing costs are up pretty much everywhere that people want to live. I'm sure you can still get affordable housing in large parts of rural Alabama and Mississippi but who would want to live there?

I'm not trying to pick a fight but I would love to once hear a rational explanation about how outsiders ruined Oregon.

[insanity]

13. look at Ashland

Ashland is the perfect example of what Californians have done. Ashland used to be a vibrant town that was affordable to live in, but that is not the case. Because of the Shakespeare festival, Ashland has attracted wealthy retirees from the Bay Area, who saw their local culture go to waste. In turn, they have tried to recreate some of the Bay Area feel, and Ashland has lost its personality. Now that Ashland is becoming a retirement community, educating is getting shafted (there are no young families anymore). It is one thing for a Californian family to move here and attempt to assimilate into Ashland, it is another for a wealthy retiree to move here, and expect the same culture from his old home.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kostya]

20. Agreed. I'm a native and I think OR is a better place than

when I was growing up. It's gone through a lot of changes and is always on the edge of getting messed up politically (the day they pass a sales tax, though, look for ice in Hades), but it's still progressive overall and there is room for grass-roots efforts. Diversity has gone way up, livability is good (and most of that raise in house pricing is probably due to the Urban Growth Boundary, that I'm sure many Californians would like to dispense with), preservation of the environment is better than many places, and the scenery is still beautiful.

As noted before, though, we have done a piss poor job in funding our schools, due some to property tax limitations, but since school districts can always put up bond measures to overcome that, you really have to say it's from simple lack of support from the voters. We also have a ridiculous majority-of-registered-voters law now that makes passing bond measures much harder.

[HuckleB]

15. Ah, yes, "natives."

A hilarious term for anyone whose ancestors have spent such a very short time in the area. It's time to get over yourself and realize that you aren't any different than most of the folks who didn't happen to have been born here.

[kostya]

21. In only use the term to indicate I was born and raised here. I agree

it is a term that's over-used and disrespectful to the original inhabitants. I like the term Canadians use, First Nation, to refer to the indigenous peoples.

[LiberalGuy000]

14. They still can't handle change

People love to hate. It's so easy to do. Oregon is famous for its desire to be a provincial state and to disparage anyone who dares to move there.

I prefer to be surrounded by people who don't give a damn about where you came from. In that respect, it doesn't get much better than the SF Bay Area.

[HuckleB]

16. If you like to spend your life in commute, SF is great.

Oregon handles change better than most places, because we actually discuss and plan for it. California's problems are what they are because ya'll never discuss jack until it's too late.

[ErisFiveFingers]

22. Fairly recent migrant to PDX here...

I traveled through 45 US states last year, trying to decide where to live, staying in a bunch of places, and wound up deciding to come back and settle in PDX, aka Portland (I'm in the city, and yes, there is a distinct city vs. rural conflict.... liberal vs. conservative, weird vs. traditionalist). My short list at the end of the trip was NYC, PDX, SFO, and Seattle (mostly west coast, because the whole east coast mentality drives me bonkers). Portland won out because of its culture, extremely low cost-of-living, and general wildness.

Here's what I have to say on the subject:

- The "heat factor". Well, my house has *no* AC, Swamp cooler, or anything of that nature. Doesn't need it. I don't think it even broke 90 degrees this summer. Of course, there are hotter, and drier, areas of Oregon, but PDX is heavenly. Folks used to cooler climates may think it's hot, but I spent 32 years in Tucson, where it gets to 112 degrees.
- Dry? Not compared to AZ. It rains fairly often here, which is nice. Folks from sun states sometimes find themselves in a funk during the rain season(s), but it hasn't happened to me, because I'm not much of a sunbather (skin cancer rates in AZ means that lots of folks raised there try to avoid the sun).
- Out of staters? Well, I have had some gentle ribbing about being from Texas, Colorado, Utah (whatever)... "you know, the southwest, it's all the same", but people are pretty nice, *unless* you're from California, in which case you may be singled out for trashing the economy of Oregon by driving real-estate sky high and trying to convert Oregon into yet-another-shopping-mall with inflated prices for everything. Californians are the butt of many jokes about social ills. Er... note this whole thread, for example.
- Finding work, programming: Well, PDX metro does have the "Silicon Forest".. there's tons of computer gigs here (Intel, IBM, etc.). Just to give you an idea of *how much* computing work there is around here, along with a hint about PDX culture, check out free geek: http://www.freegeek.org/ ... even our brazillion computers are freely rebuilt and recycled for the needy and non-profit.
- Work, psychology: Well, there's the whole rainy season "funk" to mine for patients. :) Seriously, dysthemia and depression is simply part of the culture here.
- Dunno about universities.
- Less than 350,000? LOLOLOL. Of course there are houses available for much less, the whole cost of living here is pretty darned *low*. Note, as others have indicated, that the lower wages come with the package, though. (See also complaints about Californians).

So, onto the warnings and other notes for people thinking of moving here(?):
- We have some hardcore redneck types here. Mostly logging culture, mostly in the suburbs and rural areas. Of course, if you're coming from CO, you're already likely used to them. They're also, in my experience, a whole lot nicer than many southwest rednecks. Very much "live and let live".
- Rain. Gloom. Rain. Fog. Rain. Some folks can't handle it, others do just fine.
- PDX has some *seriously* weird folks. I don't consider this to be a bad thing (as I'm a tad odd myself), and if seeing tattooed, dyed, pierced, and wild folks as, say, a receptionist at your doctor's office, or as your supermarket checkout clerk, is perfectly fine with you, you'll be happy here.
- The cops here are occasionally brutal, or incompetently useless, or sometimes, both. Thankfully, they don't seem to be out on the streets all that often.
- Strip cubs and sex-industry workers... PDX has the highest per-capita rate of strip clubs in the country. You can easily walk into a random normal looking corner bar and realize that you accidentally stepped into a strip club. Definitely not a city for the sexually inhibited.
- Much of Oregon, and even PDX, is *really white*. Utah-level white. I searched for housing in the city until I found what I thought was a less segregated area, just because I hate mono-colored culture.
- The whole Meth craziness. As an out-of-stater, I was surprised at how much people here have been freaking out about meth. There are news stories almost every week about meth-this, meth-that. *shrug*
- No sales tax means high income and property taxes. Adjust budgets accordingly. It also means that smack-dab in the city, there are unpaved roads, potholes go for months and months without repair, and services such as the police (*cough*) aren't as up-to-par with other cities.
- No sales tax also means the "Lottery" is pervasive. What "Lottery" means here is that almost every bar in the city has casino style video poker and video slot machines, as well as Keno, scratch tickets, Powerball, etc. Not a good thing if you're a compulsive gambler.
- We get Ice Storms. The city totally shuts down, it's un-drivable, un-walkable, etc. Prepare to hole up.
- The dance clubs here are fairly limited (nearly non-existent), unless you're into watching gay porn while dancing, in which case the clubs are absolutely *great*.
- The primary social scenes seem to revolve around beer, and coffee.... pubs and coffee shops are everywhere. Might not be a good place for LDS migrants.
- Public transit here is fairly good. It's not NYC good (where you never need a car), but you can reasonably get by without driving most of the time... the bike scene is huge, and there's an interconnected set of rail and bus lines.
- Our local "meetin" group is absolutely huge, it's a great way to get to know people here (there's also "drinking liberally", but I haven't hooked up with them yet).

[Trajan]

24. Politicat ... Surely you remember me .....

I messaged you in DU about available rooms in the Denver/Boulder area sometime in April .... I appreciated your kindness ...

I am now in the Portland area, and I fucking adore it here; but I have to admit: I deeply regretted leaving Boulder ... Waking to the Flatirons every day is simply amazing .... I wouldnt have missed any other place as much as Boulder ... It is just an amazing place ....

Portland is superb for it's culture, it's innate natural beauty is everywhere; from Forest Park to Multnomah falls (45 minutes) to Silver Falls (65 minutes) to Tryon Creek to Powell Butte to Mt. Tabor ...

This area is rain forest: it is thick with ferns and mosses, which fill the forest floor below towering pines .... My greatest compensation for leaving Boulder was the incredible natural beauty here ....

I came here for a good job, but I am quite pleased with all that Oregon has to offer .... It was a good choice for me ....

I often wonder: Where am I 'native' ? .. I was born near NYC, and moved to CA at age 10 .... THEN moved to Missouri 30 something years later, THEN moved to CO .... THEN moved here ....

I am not native anywhere at this point .... I choose who I am now ...

I think you will love it here ..... especially the DU meetups at the Lucky Labrador ....

Speaking of which .... Organism ? ... Viva ? ... Tom ? .... Depakid ? .... WHEN TF are we gonna meet again ? ...

Im THIRSTY ! ....

BTW Politicat ? ... Portland has innumerable microbreweries and brewpubs .... The bohemian areas are simply to die for .....