Of what possible good are Schumer and Clinton?

[itzamirakul]

Other than the fact that they both carry the party affiliation label...of what possible good are they? Both are Republican-lite. I called, emailed, and faxed both of them asking that they at least please stand to support the Conyers report and show solidarity with Senator Boxer and therefore the Democratic Party.

Every Democrat who wants fair elections should take note of the fact that the people we voted for, do not have our best interests at heart.

It is useless to say that we will vote for someone else when Clinton has to run for re-election in 2006, because the party will not allow ANYONE to challenge her for the Democratic ticket. I would hate to see a Republican win her seat, but in fact, what difference would it really make?

I simply cannot support Clinton any longer and I hate the fact that I pulled the lever for Schumer.

[NYC]

1. That must be a rhetorical question.

Otherwise, I don't have an answer.

[rooboy]

2. I could pull the lever for Schumer...

oh, you mean "voting" lever... :evilgrin:

[roenyc]

3. i am so disgusted by these two but especially

Schumer! did you post this in the other forum? its some little tidbit:

we have to write these numbskuls. any ideas? jackson said that hillary is a flip floper. she said she would stand and didnt.


"My view is that you don't hold up the election unless there is concrete real evidence of fraud. I haven't seen that," Schumer said Thursday.

In contrast, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., took to the Senate floor to thank Boxer for her move, saying the government needs to set higher standards for voting accuracy.

"As we look at our election system, I think it's fair to say that there are many legitimate questions about its accuracy, about it's integrity, and they are not confined to the state of Ohio," said Clinton, considered an early Democratic frontrunner for the 2008 presidential race.

Clinton has previously called for electronic voting machines to provide written receipts for voters. Clinton spoke with Boxer on the Senate floor and they agreed to re-offer the legislation together later this month.

She spoke during a debate required under law once a member of the House and Senate formally protest the ceremonial counting. Lawmakers are allowed to speak for no more than five minutes.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/state/ny-bc-ny--schumer-electoral0106jan06,0,2540056.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. None, that I know of....

I didn't vote or support $$$ Schumer last time for all of the reasons you describe. There was someone on the ballot from one of the left-wing mini-parties named David McReynolds, who I...think... is the long time anti-war activist: War Resisters League, etc. Didn't know he was running til I got in the voting booth. Nothing like democracy.

I'm all for recruiting someone to challenge Hillary in the primary.

Both Clinton and Schumer are following the Moynihan model for political success: win an seat and park your ass there til you kick; meaning, finger forever in the wind, never take a risky stand, appeal to ignorance of general public re. foriegn affairs, etc. etc. etc.

It's a strategy that's hard to beat, but why progressives don't mount a challenge... or even dare to CRITICIZE this sort of cynical and unproductive mentality is something that I have not figured out.

It is NEW YORK, after all.

[itzamirakul]

5. I think Clinton is going to live to

regret her decision not to support the protest re voting irregularities. Personally, not only will I NOT vote for her ever again, but I will take an active part in seeing her defeat. She is warming a seat...that is all. I will never vote for a Republican but I will never again pull the lever for her name either.

She lied to Jesse Jackson, indicating that when he asked for her support he was "preaching to the choir," and then the bitch did not support the objection! What does she think this says to the black voters of NY, not to mention everyone else?

Can anyone think of ANYTHING valuable she has done since she has been in office?

[Rhiannon12866]

6. I will vote for Hillary again

because who is the alternative? She may have let us down with her vote, but not with her words, both yesterday and since she's been in the Senate. With Hillary, at least we know that she shares our values, but we have to let her know, as her constituents, we expect her to match her words and beliefs with her actions. I also have contacted her more than once on this issue and was extremely disappointed. But everyone on DU must be disappointed, unless they are from California.

I have asked here, as others have, why did the vote turn out as it did? There were many eloquent speakers yesterday, Barak Obama, Tom Harkin and Joe Biden come to mind, along with Hillary, but when it actually came to the vote, they let us down. Why? It has been suggested that they were afraid. My answer to this is that, if this is the case, we have to somehow make sure that they realize that they have more to fear from dissatisfied constituents than anything the Republicans can threaten them with. We all have to stand together on this and contact our senators as frequently and with as much vehemence in letting them know how disappointed we were with their votes as we were in asking them to support the Ohio recount effort. But we all have to do it. There is power in numbers.

As for what Hillary has accomplished, I know that she has an excellent environmental record, since I also take part in many environmental "actions." The latest effort of hers that comes to mind is that she is leading the fight in the Senate to restore overtime pay to working families. This should never have been eliminated, but she's actively working to rectify this.

[mdmc]

7. Hill will need a backbone against Rudy

It sucks that we don't have a progressive voice.

[Rhiannon12866]

20. I think that she has one

I really don't think that he could intimidate her. He may have 9/11 on his resume, and he did very well when confronted with that, but so did many others, on that terrible day, and they weren't in his party.

[Renew Deal]

8. Republican lite? BULLSHIT

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=001939M

Check both Schumer and Hillary. 95% agreement with the ADA.

But wait, there's more. How about the American Conservative Union lifetime ranking

Clinton 11
Schumer 6

They both voted with the ACU on one item last year. You know what that was? Voting AGAINST the medicare reform scam.

http://acuratings.com/acu.cgi?ACT=3&STATE=NY&YEAR=2003

The whiners really need to take a minute and think about what they're saying and what they expect. Is Boxer the only real democrat in the senate or are you the only real democrat in the world. Get real.

[TheWraith]

23. Amen.

The suicide dove niche of the party makes so much noise about a few votes driven by political survival, never thinking to check the actual evidence. Look at voting records, and you'll notice that even the relative DINOs like Lieberman are far better than the most moderate of Republicans like Chafee, Snowe, and Specter. But no, everyone has to vote the doves' way every time, or else they'll stay home and sulk. Grow up. This is politics, and that means that sometimes you don't get to do things the way you'd like.

[nedbal]

9. Arline Spector is repug lite,, not these two

get real , Hillary needs our full support, as does Spitzer. You want Rudy or W O R S E in there . IF Dean were to move to NY I'd back him. Kucinch <sp> is too progressive for a NY win .

[mtnsnake]

10. I'm sick of Schumer & Clinton getting accused of being worthless

when that's simply not the case.

Before they were elected, the only politicians I've ever seen up here in republican northern NY were repukes. Those two have attempted to do more good than I've seen done by any other pair of Democrats in a long time. They're both very popular up here.

[mdmc]

18. I can understand Chuck (he works hard)

Hillary actually came to your town? really?

[vinessa4freedom]

22. Hillary was in Rochester the Saturday before

election day. She spoke powerfully and eloquently on behalf of Susan John and John Kerry. She doesn't forget that Western NY exists.

[trotcop]

11. They're way right of center

Where the hell are the Liberals in this State? Schumer and Clinton drank the Kool-Aid long ago.

[nedbal]

13. Where the hell are the Liberals in this State?

oh would you like Dinkens back in office, I even supported Rudy after experiencing Dinkins, Just WHO is liberal enough for You ?

[itzamirakul]

26. I supported Dinkins...He did a fine job....

whites simply did not want him in office and like yourself, voted against him, purely on racial reasons, rather than Party affiliation and loyalty. Race drives a lot of politics in "liberal" New York.

[nedbal]

37. purely on racial reasons...Nope not true..

He would not have been elected for his first term if everything was race only. Race was not it solely. But once he was in on just too many incidents he gave a free hand and protection to just too many of his cronies. Kotch knew how to balance things , that's how Koch lasted 3 terms.

[iwantmycountryback]

24. They're right of center?

You've got to be kidding me. They may not be as liberal as we'd all like sometimes, but calling them right of center is freaking ridiculous.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=H2661103
These are Schumer's interest group ratings

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268
These are Hillary's.

You're honestly going to tell me these people are "right of center?"
That's just a lie.

[Dancing_Dave]

12. U do have to use your primaries for something....

Maybe the Iraq war follies are a better issue...that's all going the way of Vietnam in any case, so why not emphasize that MOST NEW YORKERS WERE TOTALLY RIGHT TO OPPOSE INVADING IRAQ? Get someone in there who was on our side...they won't be to hard to find!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. On the run up to the war in Iraq, I emailed Hillary several times pleading

with her not to. Here I was, little old me knowing that the WMDs were no longer there, and yet of course she voted to give Bush the power. I received a form email from her telling me her reasons (WMDs and our safety) and swore I would never vote for her again.

Even the NYC Council voted not to support the war!

I thought she was going to redeem herself when she was going to investigate why a group of NY GIs came back from Iraq with DU poisoning, and there has been absolute silence about it now.

Schumer is just as useless....

They should both be screaming at the top of their lungs about how ** lied and said it was safe for those living and working by the WTC to go back there a week afterward. There were was no evidence that it was true and now thousands are suffering from debilitating respiratory disease, including pets. This is another very well kept secret sin. ** should be put in prison just for this! Not only were NYers victimized by the attacks, but by this unconscionable act!

[roenyc]

15. Schumer is so far up the neo-cons butt

in fact every one that bush has nominated since november for a post this idiot has said oh that person is just wonderful. they both thought kerick was dandy. probably just wanted him out of the ny nj area. lol

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. lol on Schumer! True to about Kerick. Wait until we see the roll

call for murdering Gonzales' nomination. It will show everyone who is hand in hand with the Sociopath and his Lunatics.

[nedbal]

17. Just WHO is liberal enough for You ?

[mdmc]

19. seems like Rudy, right?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. I would love to see Robert F. Kennedy Jr. run for office. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

28. I have heard that he's going to

Attorney General of NY State? I just caught a snip of this, on the news. But if he runs for any elective office, he sure has my vote. He's already done so much good work.O8)

[justy329]

25. Are you serious?

If Hillary and Schumer aren't Democratic enough, then who is? That would be like Republicans complaining about rank and file members such as Judd Gregg or Lamar Alexander. They are no where near Zell in terms of ideology. Yes, they are not raging liberals like Dennis or socialists like Bernie but they espouse mainstream Democratic values. This is DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND not the SOCIALISTUNDERGROUND for goodness sakes.

[itzamirakul]

27. Yes, this IS the Democratic Underground...that is why ALL

Democrats have a right to express their own viewpoints, whether or not YOU agree with them.

IMO, Hillary has stood with and voted with the Republicans far too much for my taste. I would support either Robert Kennedy Jr or Andrew Cuomo in her place.

She is a useless seatwarmer. Her "honeymoon" period ended long ago. We gave her an opportunity to show IN SOME WAY, that she represents the Democratic Party. IMO,She has failed miserably.

[Rhiannon12866]

29. I agree. I am very disappointed

"Countdown" had the list of the brave 13 who opposed the Rice nomination, like this was a tough choice, but neither of my senators was on it. What gives?! Hillary continues to talk the talk, but where is she when it comes to the votes? And what the hell is wrong with Schumer, who only shrugs?! I voted for these two for a reason, and certainly let them know how I felt on this issue, and I can't be the only one! Let's let them know, in no uncertain terms, how we feel and that they had better start stepping up to the plate. I'm angry too, but still have hope for Hillary. *sigh*:shrug:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. Unless they both undergo a sea change, I will never vote for them again.

[feelthebreeze]

31. We need to ask what they are doing for us

I do believe they have never had to deal with a growing grassroots movement like this one and are still stuck in the arrogance of their power positions. By playing the losing centrist stance they are putting all of us in danger. Continue to write and remind them of their representational duties. Mark every one of their missed steps and add it to the growing list of disturbing actions that they are continuing to do. Every time you add to that list send it to them and let them know of their losing ground with their constituents. Let them know that they are not in a special bubble and we are watching and we will remember. Ultimately we give them their job, and not the opposition. They apparently need to be reminded of this by this growing storm. If they are unble to fill this power vacuum we will switch models.


The winds of change are blowing...do you feel the breeze?

[itzamirakul]

32. Welcome to DU Feelthebreeze...This is how rightwing columnist

Charles Krauthammer sees Hillary:

<snip>
New York's Hillary Clinton may have made not only the correct decision, but a politically apropraite one as well by voting for Rice's confirmation. Clinton is steadily moving to the center with her relatively hawkish work on the Armed Services Committee, her recent conciliatory speech on abortion and now her unwillingness to go over the cliff in opposing the Rice nomination.

Who has the politics of the Rice vote right? My guess is: Hillary, as usual. <snip>

NY Daily News 1/28/05: Wrong to use Rice vote as dissent

It is a pretty state of affairs when Rightwingers can publicly tell Democrats how they should run their affairs and make judgments on which Democrat is right and which is wrong as though we have to follow their mindset.

[Rhiannon12866]

33. I was giving up hope, too

But I just checked and both of them voted against confirming Gonzales and both spoke out against his confirmation. It's up to us, as constituents, to let them know how we feel on all important issues, like this one. Unfortunately, we don't have the numbers, but I feel much better about my votes after learning that both of them stood up to the Republicans on this important vote.

[itzamirakul]

34. It's way past time that they stood up for

Democratic ideals instead of giving a lot of verbiage and then voting FOR Bush's policies.

[Rhiannon12866]

35. You must know that I completely agree with you

I have become very disheartened. And I voted for both of them. I was totally demoralized when Schumer appeared on "The Daily Show," shortly after the election, and when he was asked what happened, instead of speaking out against voter disenfranchisement, he just shrugged. But this vote, against Gonzales, by the two of them, does give me some hope. Maybe they are gaining courage, from Boxer, Kennedy and Kerry, and finally, speaking out. I sure hope so. Actually, I have more hope for Hillary than I do for Schumer. She wants to be there. He had planned to run for governor, but was convinced by Mario Cuomo, to remain in the Senate, because we need the numbers. I don't think his heart is in it, not a good thing for us.:-(

[nedbal]

36. Sign the petition:

Dear Friends,

What better way to advance our Count Every Vote reform initiative than to show the power of democracy in action!

Last week I asked you to become a citizen co-sponsor of this vitally important reform legislation that Senator Barbara Boxer and I have made a top priority for 2005.

100,000 of you answered our call to action -- and the number is growing every day.

Sign the petition:
http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/t?ctl=BAA7F9:334321F

Today, we take the next step. This afternoon, I will step onto the Senate floor and formally introduce the Count Every Vote Act.

Providing paper receipts for electronic voting machines, creating uniform standards for provisional ballots, and guaranteeing adequate equipment to prevent long waiting lines are common-sense reforms. They will help strengthen our democracy and they are supported by the vast majority of Americans.

But here's the reality. Many of the Republican leaders who make speeches about democracy abroad will resist this attempt to strengthen it here at home. They don't want to face the issue of electoral reform, and they don't want to vote on it - so they are going to try to ignore it.

That's why I am committed to building grassroots momentum -- to insist on action for the Count Every Vote Act of 2005. We are going to show that the American people are determined to have fair, free and credible elections - our democracy demands no less!

100,000 citizen co-sponsors is a great start. But, it is only a start.

Will you continue to help me build support? Will you forward this email to your friends, and ask them to join us? The more citizen co-sponsors we have, the louder, and stronger, our voice will be!

Thank you,

Hillary Clinton



Please help spread the word by forwarding this message to your friends and family!







Contributions to Friends of Hillary are not deductible for federal income tax purposes

All content copyright 2005 Friends of Hillary

Paid for by Friends of Hillary, 1717 K Street, NW, Suite 309A, Washington, D.C. 20036Dear Friends,

TUNE IN! This Sunday, February 20, Hillary will appear on NBC?s Meet the Press and on CBS?s Face the Nation to discuss her trip to Iraq. Check your local listings for details.

Thanks, as always, for being a Friend of Hillary.

Sincerely,

Ann F. Lewis
Director of Communications



Please help spread the word by forwarding this message to your friends and family!















To view the Friends of Hillary Privacy Policy, please visit: http://activate.friendsofhillary.com/



Contributions to Friends of Hillary are not deductible for federal income tax purposes

All content copyright 2005 Friends of Hillary

Paid for by Friends of Hillary, 1717 K Street, NW, Suite 309A, Washington, D.C. 20036

[Rhiannon12866]

38. I've already signed this, and sent it to everyone I know.

But thanks for posting this, and here's a kick from me! Good luck!:kick: