Bishops mailing Minnesota Catholics DVD opposing gay marriage

[dflprincess]

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/103494984.html

More than 400,000 DVDs are being mailed to the homes of Minnesota Catholics on Wednesday, courtesy of Catholic bishops in the state who want to stop the campaign to legalize same-sex marriage in its tracks. Critics say the mailing, from state bishops, is aimed at November voters.


The 18-minute DVD includes an appearance from St. Paul and Minneapolis Archbishop John Nienstedt in which he says it is time for Minnesotans -- not the "ruling elite" of legislators and judges -- to vote on a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman. Thirty-one states have passed such an amendment.

"It is the people themselves and not politicians or judges who should make this decision," Nienstedt says on the DVD. "This is the only way to put the one man, one woman definition of marriage beyond the reach of the courts and politicians."

Gay advocates who have worked to change the Catholic Church's stand on same-sex marriage said that coming six weeks before the November general election, the DVD distribution is aimed squarely at voters. "It's an effort to have Catholics vote the way the bishops want them to vote, but by and large Catholic voters are
well-educated and they are independent-minded," said Brian McNeill, president of Dignity Twin Cities. The group for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people works to change what it calls the "antiquated sexual theology" of the church. "We would like to talk to the archbishop about it, but he won't talk to us," McNeill said.

[trotsky]

1. 400,000 DVDs.

Even if it only cost them a dollar to make & ship each one, how many people could that have fed?

Perhaps we could make up enough DVDs to send them to Catholic bishops around the world, telling them that they should turn pedophiles over to the authorities instead of covering up for them and transferring them to new places with fresh victims?

The organization that protected, and as far as we know, continues to protect child rapists has absolutely no moral authority to tell anyone what to do.

[CatholicEdHead]

7. It says it was funded by a private donation

and even at $1/disk, that is still $400,000. A sum which like you said should be used for more needy people.

[progree]

18. Basilica employee suspended for launching project to build protest sculpture out of DVDs

Job on line over DVD protest http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/103901758.html
09/28/2010
JIM SPENCER
An artist who is protesting a church DVD against gay marriage was suspended from her job at the Basilica.

Artist Lucinda Naylor did not think about losing her job when she announced plans to build a protest sculpture using anti-gay marriage DVDs distributed by the Catholic Church. But two days after launching the project, Naylor was suspended from a part-time job she has held for 15 years at Minneapolis' Basilica of St. Mary. ...
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/103901758.html

=====================================================
Readers write for Sept. 29, 2010
CATHOLIC CHURCH Suspended employee reopens DVD debate
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/103965268.html
======================================================
Website to collect Catholic bishops' DVDs is launched
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/103975368.html

[CatholicEdHead]

21. She should not have been suspended

but that is the air of fear around the Archdiocese by Nienstedt unless everyone toes the line.

[CatholicEdHead]

23. Here is another speech Nienstedt gave on Sept 20 @ the Church of St Helena

http://thecatholicspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/marriage_life_study_day_speech.pdf

He rehashes the same old tired points (if you can stomach to get through all 34 pages), yet just like in the Prop 8 trial, never makes a definitive case against gay marriage. His points support a model that two parents are better than one, but the best he can do is use lack of a definitive study of same sex couples as a negative, which is faulty reasoning. He also does not include the point that stable personal economics weighs heavily on any relationship/marriage.



http://thecatholicspirit.com/news/local/protecting-traditional-marriage-is-focus-of-state-bishops%E2%80%99-initiative/

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. I know Lucinda --she is a cool and feisty person

Her reaction is totally in character.

[dflprincess]

36. Ask her if it's okay for you to keep us posted on her situation

I doubt we'll see much more in the paper about it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. I haven't seen her lately--

I know her from the YWCA, and I haven't been in there this week, due to too much work.

[CatholicEdHead]

55. Well, she is now finished with it

http://www.startribune.com/local/106192243.html

Artist Lucinda Naylor has created a 6-foot-high, wave-shaped sculpture from nearly 2,000 anti-gay marriage DVDs mailed out by Minnesota's Catholic bishops.

The symbolic protest that goes on display this weekend is her response to the bishops, who mailed out nearly 400,000 of the DVDs to Minnesota Catholics spelling out church teachings on gay marriage and urging them to support candidates who endorse putting the issue to a vote.

The mailing evoked protests that the church was inserting itself into partisan politics and alienating parishioners who support gay rights.

"My whole idea all along was transforming something that was divisive into something that was inclusive," Naylor said. "Wave of change is sort of what's in my brain. I'm trying to make the art symbolic of the movement of the Holy Spirit in the church, which would usually mean a water or fire motif."...

[CatholicEdHead]

27. I read the final cost was around $1 Million to do this

so much money that could have been used to help the needy in these down economic times.

[dflprincess]

29. And that's without knowing what the drop in Sunday collections may cost

especially the one taken for the Archdiocese every year (I think it's annual).

[Scruffy1]

2. Funny-here in Nordeast, I don't hear much about it.

Could it be that the church hierarchy is totally irrelevant? Maybe they should just stick to molesting young boys.

[glinda]

13. I am from Nordeast but do not live there now. Will ask my folks and see if they got one.

Funny thing is my folks do not have a DVD player! What a hoot!

[annm4peace]

3. They are trying to break down the liberal Catholic churches

They know this will piss off many liberal Catholics and those who support churchs like St. Joan of Arc in Mpls.
they know this will turn many away and so it will weaken these powerful Catholic Churches who are more Christ like.


I will mail my "Arch-Bishop's Catholic Appeal letter" back with the DVD to the Arch Bishop

[CatholicEdHead]

8. Yep

St Joan, St Francis Cabrini, and others have been marginalized already and I am sure there are many who would rather they just be shut down so we get the boring, rule repetition, paranoid preachings like they give at the Cathedral.

[glinda]

14. This came down influenced by the Pope's Encyclical on "Evangelizing".

I would like to know who donated the $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[Minnesota Raindog]

4. The first place I'd turn to for advice on sexual morality would be the Catholic Church

Maybe the bishops are just trying to preserve gay sex for the exclusive practice of their priests/bishops/cardinals and young boys.

One question: Urging their sheeple to demand a political vote on a constitutional amendment sounds like an overt political mailing. So why is this cabal of criminals allowed to continue to enjoy tax-exempt status?

[geardaddy]

26. Bingo.

It reminds me of the priest at Holy Family telling parishioners who to vote for.

[dpbrown]

5. Homosexuals are, in context, this epoch's tax collectors - "worthy" in the face of public opinion

The new Archbishop is turning out to be a disappointment. Festering sexual abuse still taints the Church (a good deal of which is, ironically, same-sex based), membership numbers continue to decline, fewer people choose religious service as a career, and the only thing he can think of is wasting Church money on discriminating against people loving one another.

[dflprincess]

9. Anyone who was familiar with Neinstadt's work when he was bishop of the New Ulm Diocese pretty much

knew what to expect.

My 88 year old aunt lives in that diocese and she & her pals were ready to throw a party when he left. She said he did his damndest to set cooperation with other denominations back to preVatican II days.

He also refused to allow anything but wheat based Hosts to be used for Communion (claiming that's what Jesus used at the last supper) so there were people in the diocese who could not take Communion because of gluten allergies. This included kids who could not make first Communion thanks to his attitude. Apparently he has no regard for what Jesus would do.

The Vatican apparently thought it was time to reign in an archdiocese that was leaning a little to left for them. They even broke a supposed agreement that the Bishop in St. Paul would be Irish & New Ulm would get the German (a very old agreement). And it also puts a very conservative person in charge of St. Thomas, which is the only Catholic university in the U.S. that has the local archbishop in charge.

[dpbrown]

10. Bad news all around

I really don't like this guy.

[CatholicEdHead]

12. This attitude is common all around

and not just in Minnesota dioceses. In Wisconsin their bishops put out a election letter with these priorites in this order: 1. Abortion 2. anti-gay marriage 3-5 helping the poor (big gap here). Also Milwaukee has the former LaCrosse Bishop which is similar to what they did with us by bringing in a rural ultra-conservative into the big city Archdiocese.

Neinstadt is a real piece of work. He only cares about what Rome wants and totally ignores anything from below, as we are only to be followers with no power in the Church whatsoever. We need to serve the Church instead of how it has been with past Archbishops where the Church serves the people.

[dpbrown]

16. They consolidated three churches into one in my neighborhood already

This is only going to add to the drain on finances, attendance, and membership.

The Church is going backwards. And, frankly, it IS Rome. Pope Ratz has set the Church back.

edit: title

[CatholicEdHead]

20. The trend will continue

There are just not enough priests and they filter out all but the most conservative seminarians nowadays. Crap like this DVD will turn off even more moderates and liberals (besides mandatory celibacy and no women allowed) to be able to minister to all the people.

[dpbrown]

24. I think that the Catholic hierarchy thinks it needs categories of sexual behavior to remain deviant

The Catholic hierarchy relies on a constant influx of males who will agree to renounce sexual satisfaction and monogamous sexual relationships to continue the Church. People who believe that the type of sexual satisfaction or sexual relationship they crave is deviant will be, I believe, more likely to renounce that life for one of supposed sexual chastity in the Church. Therefore, by continuing its war on homosexuality, the Church is working to maintain the flow of the sexually guilty into the, by comparison, safety of the priesthood.

Since the Church relies on luring the sexually suppressed into the priesthood, and maintaining a sense of sexual damage around them by demonizing homosexuality, it's no wonder that priests falter when they find that chastity is no complete answer to their Church-enhanced sexual guilt.

[glinda]

41. The intention is to make "small pure Churches" as opposed to having liberal Churches.

[CatholicEdHead]

46. True, though as of now St Joan of Arc and St Frances Cabrini are safe

We will see what happens in time.

[glinda]

47. Yes. I understand that at St. John's and Ben's that there is a strong GLBT community so

no wonder that was a target of "a special visit".

[CatholicEdHead]

48. Actually I heard the AB was invited by SJU's President

It also just happened to coincide with the end of GLBTQ week.

[CatholicEdHead]

6. I remember the Archbishop recording a message in May

and this is it apparently. What a epic waste of archdiocese's money. He posted a real gem of a article in the archdiocese paper last time.

http://thecatholicspirit.com/that-they-may-all-be-one/standing-up-for-the-truth-about-marriage/

Besides talking down to everyone reading it as children, to him Marriage is the epoch of everything to rally for this fall, even with the economy falling apart all around us. :puke:

[Angry Dragon]

31. I went and read the article

He talks about marriage as a sacrament. So priests are not allowed to fully experience the church by not being allowed to marry??
Sounds pretty backward.

[mnSky]

11. The Gospel of Hate

Check your mailboxes! The Catholic Bishops are sending you a GOSPEL OF HATE..... The Minnesota Catholic Bishops have launched an aggressive and expensive six week campaign telling Catholics to hate gays, urging them to contact their legislators calling for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, and vote in the November 2 elections for legislators that will support their homophobic hate agenda. (that would be Emmer for those keeping track of wedge issues!)...more at TruthSurfer: http://truthsurfer.blogspot.com/2010/09/minnesota-archbishop-nienstedts-gospel.html

[CatholicEdHead]

15. There is lots of fear by the Archbishop by taking this response

Which goes beyond the St Paul/Mpls Archdiocese or New Ulm & other outstate dioceses. While on the face Nienstedt appears to be talking from a position of strength with his office, he is actually taking a position of fear. Fear of what their choices of life have taken them and the costs to get there. The Catholic Church is demoralized by the sex abuse scandals and is still in major denial. The abuse has taken away the innate respect for the institution.

Instead of opening up and publicly clearing house by interacting with the people they are in theory supposed to shepard, they are holed up in their offices and are scared of outside ideas and discussion. The fear of outside discussion and ideas makes you question the strength of their faith, as it comes across that the threat of new ideas may shatter their ideas of faith. If you are secure in your faith you are expected to discuss issues with others and not fear differences in opinion.

So Dignity Twin Cities actually has the long term upper hand and position of strength here as they are willing to have a face to face, heart to heart talk with the Archbishop and are secure in their spirituality to discuss these matters, whereas Nienstedt is refusing from a position of weakness by refusing to meet and discuss matters.

Until this innate fear leaves the Vatican highest levels, change will be slow and regression will continue, though that will eventually turn around with future generational shifts.

[glinda]

42. U r 2 kind in describing him. Even my uncle, who is a priest, is really nasty sometimes.

[annm4peace]

17. how much will it cost the Church to send it back unopenned ?

I know I"m sending mine back unopenned. just gonna write on it. and then send back..

I hope it gets him fired.

[CatholicEdHead]

19. Doubtful it will get him fired

If anything beside GOP get out the vote this fall, this moves the Archbishop one step closer to a promotion to Cardinal in the future. The trend is the louder the bishops whine about non-issues like these the more likely they are pushing for a promotion. Nienstedt is well connected in Rome to begin with and he may (hopefully) move on, but with a promotion to a Cardinal. I would then guess then the current Winona bishop Quinn would be on the short list as the replacement for Archbishop as he is the second most vocal proponent in this disgrace of a DVD.

[dflprincess]

22. Even if they make him a Cardinal there's a chance they will keep him here

It was always rumored that Archbishop Roach would have gotten a red hat had he not let the Vatican know he didn't like its position on birth control - even though he didn't go public with it.

[geardaddy]

25. Ha! Ruling elite.

Methinks Rev. Nienstedt lives in a glass house.

[wellstone dem]

28. I will be returning mine and asking

when I can expect the DVD on Catholic teaching on Domestic violence. They can quickly get one on DV and one on immigration out before the election too.

[CatholicEdHead]

30. Good article from the National Catholic Reporter on this

http://ncronline.org/blogs/young-voices/knights-minnesota-archbishop-endanger-church-neutrality

In the speculation that the donor is either the Knights of Columbus (Men's lay catholic social group, now a quasi GOP-PAC) or the National Organization for Marriage, or some combination of the two.

[dflprincess]

32. Surprising LTTE from the pastor at St. Edward's in Bloomington -

Especially the last 3 paragraphs. I don't know anything about Father Tegeder. I would guess he doesn't have any ambitions to more up the chain of command and I'd bet the archbishop will not be happy with him. More priests with his outlook could lead me back to the church.

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/104184043.html?page=2&c=y

I have watched the DVD sent out by the Minnesota Catholic bishops in favor of a constitutional amendment limiting marriage to one man and one woman.
The premise of the DVD is that same-sex couples and their committed relationships are a grave threat to marriage. To be clear, these bishops hold that sacramental Catholic marriage is in essence different from what is considered marriage by society. Nevertheless, the bishops claim they have a concern for marriage in the overall society.
What are the real threats to marriage? The Sept. 29 story "Economy is hitting hearts and wallets," about the effects of our current economy on marriage, said that "being broke and unemployed is not conducive to matrimony, young Americans are finding. In 2009, the number of young adults (25-34) who have never tied the knot surpassed those who had married for the first time since data collection began more than a century ago."

In every serious study, poverty is the top reason for marital breakdowns. It is very hard to make the case that a small percentage of the population who bond with members of their own sex and seek to live in a committed relationship could have anything but a positive effect on the general population's appreciation of stable, faithful, life-giving unions.

The very thoughtful letters to the editor about this subject reflect the fact that Catholics have very diverse opinions about this issue. The bishops themselves are not united on how to approach this new reality of gays and lesbians claiming a right to have their own families publicly recognized with corresponding rights and responsibilities.

Since arriving in Minnesota as a bishop in 2001, Nienstedt has had the constitutional amendment as a priority. In 2006, he promoted postcards, which as archbishop he has upgraded to DVDs. I do not believe any of our other bishops would have been on such a crusade. "Minnesota nice," if not prudence, would have prevailed. Ask them privately.

Just recently the Cardinal Archbishop of Vienna, Christoph Schönborn, the main author of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and friend of the pope, publicly stated that the church needs to look differently at committed same-sex relationships. His fellow Austrian bishops concurred. These are thinking, serious church leaders. They listen.

The constitutional amendment being promoted by the archbishop does not allow even for civil unions, and it would limit current rights enjoyed by our gay and lesbian citizens. We as Catholics can have our own beliefs about marriage. But we must recognize that people of other faiths and of no faith have conscientious beliefs as well.

Most scandalous is that Archbishop Nienstedt has compromised his office with the use of anonymous money to fund this effort. The constitutional amendment is a very political issue. The impression is given that political funding is at work here.

PASTOR Michael Tegeder, Church of St. Edward, Bloomington

[CatholicEdHead]

33. Archdiocese Parish Priest speaking up against Archbishop

I applaud him and his courage to speak out.

http://ncronline.org/news/justice/minn-pastor-challenges-nienstedts-dvd-campaign

Here is his letter:
http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/104184043.html?page=2&c=y



The Archbishop also refused to give communion to the St John's/St Ben's students of PRISM, who support equality on sexual issues.

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/faith/104352108.html

Good job to the students for doing this, shame on the Archbishop to refuse to give it to them.

It looks like a consistent revolt against the Archbishop on this matter across the state.

Edit: More in PRISM at CSB/SJU, they are well accepted on campus even by the Republican students on campus. Much of this is a generational thing.
http://csbsjurecord.com/2010/09/prism-students-celebrate-progress/

[dflprincess]

34. Pay attention EdHead

I copied most of that letter into my post right above yours last Sunday... Not that it doesn't bear repeating. :hi:

I'm wondering how close the parish priest is to retirement. I imagine he's on the Archbishop's list now and may be whisked off to a monastary for reeducation at any moment.

[CatholicEdHead]

37. Thanks, I missed that this past weekend

lots of things going on.

[glinda]

43. Communion was offered right after by another Priest. No mention of that.

[Zambero]

39. The Roman Catholic hierarchy has absolutely no moral authority...

let alone credibility. Perhaps having the current pedophile-enabling "spitual leader" step down would be a step in the right direction? Until that happens, and until the church's hypocrisy in opposing gay rights (when a high % of the clergy are in fact gay) abates, any more lecturing on how to vote will likely fall on deaf ears.

[CatholicEdHead]

40. Lay Group playing two issue campaign

Some undisclosed group of lay Catholics is reducing the election to two issues, abortion and gay marriage. Nothing else matters for their "Catholic Vote".

http://www.minnesotacatholicvote.org/voters-guide/

:puke:

[dflprincess]

44. I saw an Emmer ad this morning that was especially nasty about Gay marriage

I think it may be a reedit of the one he was running a while ago as it struck me as being similar, but more extreme than what I remember the other one to be.

In it he talks about "unforeseen consequences" of Gay marriage (what? Marcus will pack up his "fabulous taste" in women's clothes & leave Michelle to dress herself?) and a "charitable group" that had to stop adoptions. The voice over does not mention the group but the ad shows headlines about Catholic Charities in DC refusing to do any more adoptions.

[CatholicEdHead]

45. With Emmer down in most polls they seem to be pulling out all the stops

That Catholic Vote site really turns the nasty rhetoric up to 11 with saying (quoting the Pope's past words) that same sex marriage is a "intrinsic evil". No compassion at all.

Given that MN is one of the last states to deal with this, they are finding that this scare tactic wedge issue is not getting traction in these down economic times. Also it is all based on a future "threat" to them. People realize a bill is a bill in the legislature and nothing is imminent in the short term (still just a matter of time eventually in the state), as many bills are brought up and never go anywhere.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. One of the people I know from the Y said that 400 people from the Basilica

(and probably the entire membership of St. Joan of Arc) mailed their DVDs back.

[CatholicEdHead]

50. And also probably St Frances Cabrini

There are a lot of alienated Catholics out there right now. I see the laity of the Archdiocese pushing back and making their voices heard in the coming years.

[glinda]

51. Maybe this will push the CC to finally split into two with one being

more like the progressive and understanding Catholics of old and the other being the one that merges with the Evangelicals.:dilemma:

[CatholicEdHead]

52. I do not see that happening

At the Vatican level, they see only themselves as the Church and even the laity who are not 100% with them as not one of them (see recent remark by Nienstedt). Nienstedt is really pushing for the Cardinal cap with a move like this for his resume.

I see the two sides continuing to get farther and farther apart in coming years, but the pendulum will swing back to welcome more liberal Catholics back. Many will stay in and push back as much as they can. It may still take a couple generations to move the needlessly overly strict JPII-era Catholic hierarchy on.

Edit: There are other views out there. Other parts of the world publicize other parts unlike the US media. Here is a good piece from a Australian Priest talking about how homosexuality will eventually be more accepted.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/encounter/stories/2010/3029756.htm

[glinda]

53. I see your point and it is well taken but do not think that some people will

wait that long to form a more liberal Church. I know the Papal connection but do not see the Catholic Church, as we know it, coming back around. There was a recent appointment of some sort? VERY conservative Italian?

[FiveGoodMen]

54. Your comment sounded encouraging until the words, "merges with the Evangelicals."

:scared: