Do Floridians support the US embargo on Cuba & travel sanctions on us?

[Mika]

We know that it is an important issue in Miami to the Cuban expat community, but where else is maintaining our political policy against Cuba important in Florida?


Poll: Americans on Cuban Sanctions
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=770
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Poll: Cuban-American focus is local
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/6269237.htm

[DAGDA56]

1. I, for one, do not support the embargo and travel restrictions...

...it just rubs me the wrong way that an American government can tell its citzens where they may or may not travel to...as to the embargo, you can walk into any Western Union office here in Orlando and wire money to Cuba...you don't have to buy stuff, you can just send money!

[FloridaPat]

2. Just in the Cuban areas - probably extends up to Ft. Lauderdale.

Now you have to realize, these people have been holding a grudge for 45 years and want to go back to Cuba. They now have children and grandchildren that are quite happy here. It's kind of a shame so much hate for so long.

[Mika]

4. Not all Cuban-Americans and expats are old. Many are young

The Miami Herald link in the first post is a poll study on the local Miami-Dade Cuban-American and Cuban expat political interests, which are mainly local issue in focus - not Cuba. It also indicates that the emerging MiamiCuban youth population is not supportive of current punitive policies like the embargo and travel sanctions (travel sanctions are on Americans of non Cuba descent, not Cuban-Americans & Cuban expat "exiles" who can go to Cuba on daily flights out of Miami).

[DAGDA56]

5. An important point about travel restrictions...

...not only do they strike me as anti-American (telling me I cannot travel to a certain destination) but the law is not imposed on all Americans equally. Why hasn't this been challanged on that basis?

[Mika]

6. Ask the Dem party (they collect more $$ than the GOP from Cubans)

chart from www.opensecrets.org





LBN Thread on the travel subject by JudiLyn..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x500514

April 20, 2004
Cuban-Americans ask U.S. government to relax restrictions on travel and remittances to Cuba.

We call on Congress to lift all restrictions on our right to travel to Cuba and our right to send remittances to our loved ones. We also call on Congress to eliminate the Cuban Adjustment Act. Moreover, we call on the Bush Administration to resume the Migration talks with Cuba and to abide by the agreements already entered into with Cuba in 1994 and 1995.

Washington, D.C. (PRWEB) April 20, 2004 -- As Cuban-Americans we yearn for a normal relationship with our country of origin. We have families on the island that we desire to visit and help on a regular basis. U.S. laws severely limit our ability to visit and to send remittances to our loved ones in Cuba, and the Bush Administration's recent suspension of the U.S./Cuba migration conversations threaten to further isolate us from our families.

We are now permitted only one family visit to Cuba within a twelve-month period, and our remittances are limited to only $1200 per family per year.

It is immoral to premise our foreign policy toward Cuba on isolating the Cuban people from their loved ones and causing unnecessary economic hardship to our families there. Moreover, we have a constitutional right to travel to Cuba to visit our families, and we have a constitutional right to send remittances without any arbitrary restrictions imposed on us by the United States government.

The U.S. Interests Section in Havana routinely denies visitors' visas to our families in Cuba, because of concerns that under the terms of the Cuban Adjustment Act any Cuban who touches U.S. soil is eligible to remain as a lawful permanent resident. As a result, Cubans risk their lives by trying to cross the dangerous Florida straights on flimsy rafts in an often fatal effort to reach U.S. shores. Many Cuban men, women and children have lost their lives trying to cross those shark-infested waters.
(snip/...)

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/4/prwebxml119879.php

[thexanman]

3. Hell no

I don't support either. I think they're moronic.

[dryan]

7. This needs to go!

Unfortunately, the Cuban-American lobby is very powerful in DC. Cuban-Americans that are for lifting the embargo are pilloried, threatened, and in some cases victims of violence.

[seasat]

8. Definitely stop the embargo.

It makes sense now since Castro is old and will be passing the torch soon. If we open up now with Cuba, it will pave the way for greater freedoms for the country. It's hard to operate a secret police and oppress the populace when you have a bunch of tourists with video cameras running around.

[Mika]

9. HUH??

"It's hard to operate a secret police and oppress the populace when you have a bunch of tourists with video cameras running around."

:wtf:


Cuba doesn't have an oppressed populace. Ask tourists who have been there.

Tourists from all over the world go to Cuba. Do a google search on Cuba +travel.

Its only Americans that are travel banned by their own government from going to Cuba to see for themselves.

American tourists in no way automatically bestow "freedom" upon any country.

[seasat]

12. This is what I'm referring to.

(Human Rights Watch)


Exactly one year ago, on March 18, 2003, the Cuban government launched a massive crackdown on peaceful dissidents, independent journalists, human rights defenders, and independent labor unionists, librarians, medical doctors, and teachers. Almost 90 democracy advocates were detained in a matter of days, their houses thoroughly searched, and many of their belongings confiscated.

Over the following three weeks, 75 of those arrested were tried, convicted and sent to prison with sentences ranging from 6 to 28 years. The government accused the democracy advocates of attempting to subvert state authority, of spying for the United States and other governments, and of reporting lies to the foreign press about the Cuban economy. The trials fell far short of international human rights standards. Judges and prosecutors in Cuba are not independent, but operate under direct government control. International observers were barred from the proceedings. Defense lawyers were not given an adequate opportunity to prepare their client’s defense. They were granted access to court files less than 24 hours before trial, and, in most cases, they did not see their clients until an hour before court proceedings began.

Now while I don't propose that something as simplistic as US tourism will automatically bestow Democracy upon a country, it will help some especially once Castro is gone. The only way he could have treated these dissidents worse is if he carted then off to a foreign country and locked them in a prison camp without any benefit of a trial. I wonder what other country did this? ;-) With the US only a short boat trip away, the tourism business would be much greater than from other countries. Opening up trade would also spur more capitalism. Castro has done one thing that I think is necessary for a successful Democracy to begin, he has educated his populace. With more money flowing into Cuba and more capitalism there will develop a stronger middle educated class that will push for more freedoms. They won't put up with arrests of proDemocracy dissidents like occurred last year.

[Mika]

13. Cuba doesn't exist in a vacuum

I don't really want to turn this thread into a tit for tat discussion as to the veracity of HRW reports on Cuba and the USA. But your point about American tourists using video cameras to help "free" Cubans is just unrealistic and uninformed. Millions of people from the world over visit Cuba every year.

-

Cuba and Cubans have been victimized by 4 decades of US sponsored terror.

The 75 Cuban "dissidents" were on the US NED, USIA, USIDA payroll (via US created news groups like Cubanet.com etc), just as many of the terrorist supporting Miamicuban "foundations" and Miamicuban "exile" information agencies are. The US government approved over $22,000,000 of US taxpayer money for the Support of Cuban Dissidents bill sponsored by Joe Lieberman. The US Helms-Burton law, the Support of Cuban Dissidents bill, and the US embargo on Cuba are tantamount to declarations of war. Those who aid and abet foreign government interference in Cuba, including terra, are subject to life sentences under Cuban constitutional law #88 - supporting foreign entities seeking to overthrow the government of sovereign Cuba - which was a law passed by the Cuban National Assembly in response to Liebermans bill.

The convicted "dissidents" were not expressing free speech. They were aiding and abetting an avowed enemy foreign government's attempts to overthrow the Cuban government.


Here's what Phillip Agee (former CIA) has to say about the "dissidents" and their US based funding sources,
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2003/julio/mier30/30agee4.html



Here's what the American Librarian Association has to say about the so called "independent" journalists and "independent" libraries in Cuba,
http://www.lisnews.com/article.php3?sid=20010314225701



Now, on to the democratic process in Cuba..

Here are some of the major parties in Cuba. The union parties hold the majority of seats in the Assembly.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html

* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

Plenty of info on this long thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6300&forum=DCForumID70


http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

--

Representative Fidel Castro was elected to the National Assembly as a representative of District #7 Santiago de Cuba.
He is one of the elected 607 representatives in the Cuban National Assembly. It is from that body that the head of state is nominated and then elected. Raul Castro, Carlos Large, and Ricardo Alarcon and others were among the nominated last year. President Castro has been elected to that position since 1976.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/do/Dorticos.html

Dorticós Torrado, Osvaldo

1919–83, president of Cuba (1959–76). A prosperous lawyer, he participated in Fidel Castro’s revolutionary movement and was imprisoned (1958). He escaped and fled to Mexico, returning to Cuba after Castro’s triumph (1959). As minister of laws (1959) he helped to formulate Cuban policies. He was appointed president in 1959. Intelligent and competent, he wielded considerable influence. In 1976 the Cuban government was reorganized, and Castro assumed the title of president; Dorticós was named a member of the council of state.

The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.attcanada.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html#Democracy

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books





______


Here's a story by a Cuba tourist that might interest you,

http://www.whitedog.com/learnfromcuba.html

What I noticed most while we toured Havana by bicycle on the first morning of our recent trip was the relief I felt from the absence of advertising and commercialism, as well as the fun-loving nature of our Cuban guide and bystanders as we paraded through their city. In visiting a senior center, community block party, school, hospital, and family farms, we found a seemingly color-blind society, with a love of life, a generous spirit & a remarkably strong sense of community - one I find lacking at home where self interest is more common than concern for others. Born from necessity, Cuba has become a "green" country. Their model system of private organic family farms provides Cubans with fresh produce for the first time since before the days when all useable land was planted in sugar for export, while food was imported from the US. With a commitment to continue "living in harmony with nature," they may well become the only country free from the harmful agri-chemical companies who have wreaked havoc in other developing nations.

The Cuban constitution provides the right to education, health care, a job, social security and access to culture and recreation for all citizens. As a result, Cuba has a literacy rate of 98.2%, the highest in the Americas, more doctors, art teachers, and olympic gold medalists per capita than any other country, no homelessness, and an infant mortality rate lower in Havana than DC. As reformers slowly privatize the economy, they are justly cautious about losing the hard-earned social and environmental accomplishments of the Revolution, where a philosophy based on inclusion turned the once exclusive Havana Yacht Club over to trade unions and transformed Batista's military barracks into a school for special needs children.

I'm certain that anyone with modest interest and ability to use a search engine might discover much that they did not know about that nation. But, of course, one must be serious about wanting to learn rather than wanting to do something quite different.

More importantly, doesn't our freedom to travel and to travel to Cuba usurp the special interests of a few disgruntled Miamicuban "exiles" (most of whom travel to Cuba annually, legally by US law).



FYI, I've been to Cuba dozens of times (with legal permits from US OFAC), including a long stay during the 1997-98 election season. From the nominations, to the runoffs, to the elections, to the manual public ballot count and onward to the ratification elections across the country.

Why don't more Americans know about this? 1)- A near TOTAL information blackout regarding real Cuba news in the US media, 2) - the US travel ban on American citizens and resident aliens (except those of Cuban descent, who can go back to the country that they "escaped" from).

[hilaryxdotson]

10. Don't support,

In fact, I honestly don't see why they still exist.

[Mika]

11. THAT'S IT??? SIX of us??

Its one of the major issues relating to Florida electoral politics - on both sides of the aisle (not to mention the impact of the embargo to the export industries of over 40 US states that desire an expansion of trade betwen themselves and Cuba).

This is the total response - six of us?

[gator_in_Ontario]

14. I remember

wanting to visit Cuba from an early age....(probably because it was not allowed...hehe).
It is so close, too.
It just feels like a childish grudge to me...children in a sandbox.

[Mika]

15. Only the USA is playing in the sandbox on this one

The government of Cuba has been seeking the normalization of relations with the US since day 1 - post revolution (Jan 1 1959).

All property claims against Cuba have been settled by all claimants in all other countries that had citizens or businesses that lost property due to abandonment or nationalization, except those in the USA - by US law (the Trading With the Enemy Act).

[gator_in_Ontario]

16. I agree

the Us is playing the child
That's what I meant...

[carols]

17. Don't support...

Definitely don't support...
Carol

[Scurrilous]

18. I don't support the embargo...

...I think it's just a ploy to punish the Cuban people for having the temerity to defy the U.S. I don't support the travel ban either. It galls me that my Cuban-American friends can travel to Cuba without any problem and I can't.

[Mika]

19. Kick

:kick:

For the new Florida Forum DUsers

[ornotna]

20. No

Absolutely not. They are criminal in my opinion.

[methinks2]

21. nobody I know supports the sanctions