Prop 200 passed...

[jtb33]

I had mixed feelings about this one, but I admit that I did vote for it, more as a message for some sort of reform. What else could I do?

Anyone have strong feeling about Prop 200, one way or another?

[madaboutharry]

1. You could have voted against it , that's what.

Prop 200 is a shameful play to the lowest common denominator. Go read it again.

[jtb33]

4. No groups were "for" it...

Dems, Repubs, Governor, etc... everyone was officially against it, but the vast majority of the residents were for it. Go figure.

Like I said, I voted for it as a message to get some sort of reform going. I also don't see how it could be a bad idea to have voters show identification to vote.

[asianjoanne]

11. it's not about just...

having to show identification to vote! It's also about having federal employees (teachers, professors, librarians, post office employees, etc) being REQUIRED to report any "suspicious persons" who seem to not be American citizens. If they do not report these people, the federal employees can be put in jail for not "doing their job" as a newly hired INS employee, thanks to the passing of prop 200.

Like I said before: Arizona has lost a teacher (me). There is NO WAY I'm teaching here in Arizona and having to be required to turn in innocent immigrant children to the INS just because they wanted a better life here in America.

Remember people...this is how it starts. First it's discrimination against immigrants, next it will be against Catholics, and then it will turn into another police country much like the time of the Nazis when they were "reporting Jewish people"...much like prop 200 is requiring federal employees to "report mexican illegal immigrants."

This country has sunken to a record LOW when it comes to people living "free" in America.

[blondeatlast]

18. Research who'e behind it, too. nt

[Is It Fascism Yet]

31. it was fubar no matter which way you voted on it

it was one of those ballot props that is fubar no matter which way you voted on it. If you voted for it, you were prolly trying to say you don't want illegal aliens wandering around using up our public services when they should be shipped home. Many persons didn't want to vote AGAINST prop 200, because that could be interpreted as an invitation to drop the borders and just let anybody who wants to flow in and have at it. Have to agree with that. But on the other hand, it makes cops out of health care providers, who are now not supposed to give aid the illegals in the throes of an emergency, but call the cops and have them carted away instead. They deliberately write some of these props in such a way that you can't win no matter how you vote on the thing, it sends the wrong message.

[Kali]

2. WTF?

Arizona shows its best to the rest of the country AGAIN. Racist, xenophopic bull shit is what 200 is. Prepare for a tax hike to pay for it as well.

[lapfog_1]

3. It's very stupid

If I'm an employee of the state OR receiving money as a contractor
for services.... and I provide services to an someone who does not
have the proper ID... this law holds ME CRIMINALLY LIABLE! (Jail
time plus fines!)

My brother in law is an ER doc. He is close to retirement... he
already told me that if this passed, he is done.

It's an insane law.

I know that illegal immigration is a problem. This is not the way
to fix it. The reason Bush and the rethugs DON'T want to implement
real border security is that many of the large industrial farms
in the southwest and Florida DEPEND on cheap illegal immigrants.

[jtb33]

5. I know that it's no fix...

In fact, it's far from it, but it's passage sends a big "DO SOMETHING" to lawmakers about the situation.

If you're an employee of the state OR receiving money as a contractor
for services, if you don't want to be criminally liable, just make sure that they display proper ID.

Your brother bought into talking points - it doesn't have any bearing on providing emergency services.

In fact, Prop 200 isn't something new, it just emphasizes and clarifies existing laws.

[iamladybug]

7. Seriously...

If you don't understand what you are voting on, please have the common sense to not vote on it. You didn't 'tell' anybody to 'do something', you just took a shot in the dark. Guess you and the rest of us can suffer the bullet.

Sheesh!

[jtb33]

8. I knew EXACTLY what I was voting for...

[blondeatlast]

24. What, then?

What were you voting FOR?

[blondeatlast]

19. Hope you enjoyed the Kool-Aid.

You certainly don't act like someone with "mixed" feelings.

200 is hideously racist bullshit.

Sorry you fell for it, but your vote was wrong.

[FatSlob]

25. Racist?!?

Only if you committed a crime by crossing into the United States illegally. they don't belong here, send them all back and seal the border. Legal immigration, YES! Illegal immigration...FUCK NO!

[rene moon]

6. Stick Prop 200 up your ***!!!

God, Arizona and it's citizens who voted for this suck---the same as Bush voters in my book. Racists!

[jtb33]

9. Just how is this racist?

It doesn't matter if you're white, black, brown, yellow, pink, blue, tall, thin, short, fat, blonde (etc), EVERYONE has to show ID to vote. How is that "racist"?

[asianjoanne]

13. it's racist to the point that...

when a WHITE person goes to a voting booth, they just need to show their voter card or ID card. But if a mexican or asian person comes in to vote, they need to show TWO forms of citizenship.

The fact of the matter is: prop 200 promotes racial discrimination, believe it or not. It does. My boyfriend is part Mexican, BORN IN AMERICA, but the way he "looks", he would be considered "suspicious" and he would be treated AT FIRST as if he were illegal. Almost like "illegal until proven legal" to people who are NOT caucasian. I am part asian, I LOOK Asian, and because of this prop passing, I too will be discriminated against.

Thank you prop 200 voters....

[jtb33]

15. Nope... wrong.

And why are you misinformed? ANYONE that has a driver's license can use that to vote - regardless of race (or anything else). Why? Because in order to get one in AZ, you have to prove you are a resident of the state and provide proof of citizenship (at the DMV). If you don't have a driver's license, even if you're white, you must ALSO show "two forms of citizenship".

[blondeatlast]

22. And if you think it's going to be used fairly and equally, there's a bridg

in Lake Havasu I can sell you.

Proposition 200 is racism at it's worst. I won't say anything about those that voted in favor. I've drawn my own conclusions.

My husbadn has brown skin, by the way.

[jtb33]

26. It looks to me like YOU'RE the one who's discriminating...

As the proposition doesn't make any distinction of race, color, sex or anything else. I don't think you read my above post. EVERYONE has to show the EXACT SAME IDENTIFIACTION, REGARDLESS OF RACE (or anything else)!

*sigh*

[Kali]

29. Bullshit

Unless something has changed you did not need to prove citizenship to get a drivers Lic.

[blondeatlast]

20. The HELL it doesn't. It's aomed at the Latinos.

Ask one, if you know one.

"Mixed feelings" my lily-white ass.

[Kali]

30. um, ..... because its aimed pretty much at Mexicans?

Just a hunch.

[asianjoanne]

12. Whew...I was about to

get angry there for a second. I was about to say that I'm an Arizona resident, but I didn't vote for prop 200, so therefore...I don't suck. lol

[asianjoanne]

10. Prop 200 promotes

racial discrimination and makes federal employees become puppets for the INS. Because of Prop 200 passing here in Arizona, I refuse to start my job as a teacher here. If I started my job here in Arizona, I would have to report children who "seem" to be illegal immigrants. Especially the children I help NOW who speak NO English. I would have to ask THEM and their parents for their papers just so I wouldn't go to jail?!? FORGET THAT!

Arizona lost another teacher (me). I am NOT working here. If I would work here, I would end up going to jail CONTINUOUSLY because there would be no way in hell that I would report one of my 7 year old students to the INS so they can be shipped off to a country that is worse off than we are here in America. No way.

ADIOS ARIZONA! STICK PROP 200 UP YOUR @$$e$!!!! And I'm sure MANY other teachers will agree with me on my motion to start my career elsewhere where there is NO discrimination.

[DrRock]

14. ^

First off, don't leave AZ, we need good progressive-minded people like you to turn things around. Secondly, prop 200 is already being challenged. People have some impression that it is a step toward immigration reform, but the reality is that the government doesn't want immigration reform. Why would they? They are slaves to the corporations and the business elite, who save tons of money by hiring illegals and avoiding hiring Americans. So when someone says, "illegals are taking our jobs" you need to say to them, "no, the business owners are GIVING AWAY YOUR JOBS". It's not as if illegals are telling these people who to hire. Management wants cheap labor, and they don't want to pay benefits. Hiring illegals solves both of these problems. It's one of the many benefits of AZ being a right-to-work state. These greedy bastards would rather pay illegals less than to pay Americans a higher wage. Don't blame the illegals, they're just going where the getting's good. Blame the people with all the money who want to hang onto as much of it as they can.

[69KV]

16. That's an interesting point

Arizona is a "right to work" (for minimum wage in non-union workplaces) state.

As long as union organizing is next to impossible, employers will not only pay as low wages as they can, they will skirt the wage and labor laws entirely wherever they can. This includes hiring illegal labor at sub-minimum wages. Illegal laborers come because they can make more money illegally in the U.S. than they can legally in Mexico, and because there are unscrupulous U.S. employers more than willing to break labor and wage laws. Much of these unscrupulous employers are in big agribusiness, which has been steadily supplanting family farms now for 50 years.

It seems to me that illegal immigration will stop when:
1. Mexico's workplaces become unionized, which is the only thing historically proven to end sweatshops and establish a strong middle class.
2. Arizona and other states repeal their "right to work" laws, so workplaces in the U.S. including farm laborers can organize.
3. U.S. and state labor and wage laws are strictly enforced with zero tolerance for violations. Congress refuses to do this - there was a great Time Magazine article a month or so ago on this.
4. Family farms make a comeback, and start supplanting big agribusiness instead of the other way around. This will only happen if family farms are put back on a level playing field with agribusiness. That level playing field will only happen when big agribusiness becomes unionized.

Prop 200 addresses none of these things, and it's going to be thrown out by the courts anyway. Next time, we need a real solution: Unionization. Unionization in the U.S., and unionization in Mexico. People who understand how much of a crisis illegal immigration is, also need to understand what the only long term solution is.

[FatSlob]

27. I think it is great.

It is another tool to catch criminals, the illegal immigrants who violate Federal law by crossing into our country illegally. They deserve none of our services, none of our sympathy. They need to be stopped at the border. If they are already here, they need to be rounded up and shipped back to where they came from. I favor armed troops on the border to prevent more of these criminals from crossing our border. Legal immigrantation? YES! Illegal...FUCK NO!

[asianjoanne]

28. I hope that you're...

being sarcastic...

[Erratic]

17. I'm outta here ASAP

This proposition reeks of discrimination and unfair treatment of people AND public employees. I kick myself daily for not going to college sooner, but when I graduate it's New England or the West Coast for me.

[blondeatlast]

21. What specific message did you want to send?

Details, please.

[blondeatlast]

23. It was also cleverly designed to GOTV for the opposing party.

I'm assuming you AREN'T happy about us once again going red?