"Voting for/against 87 Bil" RW talking point: Why hasn't this been

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

debunked better in the debates?

I thought this was rather easily debunked by pointing out the veto thread/tax cut preservation issues behind it. Perhaps I am wrong.

Kerry in his debate mainly responded that Bush was worse by leading us into war, which is a pretty damn good point, and he only had 30 seconds, but I was disappointed that this wasn't put to bed there. I thought it was a softball that I was eagerly awaiting Kerry to lay his Louisville slugger to and hit out of the park.

Didn't catch the whole thing but I heard that JE didn't really rebut this in VP debate either. What gives? Meanwhile the Repubs keep flogging this in commercials and on the stump, although I'm sure to less effect than before.

Insights? Wisdom?

[sonicx]

1. i have no idea

i've emailed the campaign many times about this. i hope others do to. Kerry needs to end it.

[e-mail]

[liveoaktx]

2. I wonder about this, too, seems like it could be laid to

rest within the time frame.
-Wouldn't have needed the supplemental if better planning, including needing money for troops
-Kerry wanted accountability for the money
-Bush threatened to veto Kerry's amendment, thus was also willing to stiff the troops
-Bush would have vetoed ANY BILL that wasn't just what he wanted? Why? Because in the second bill, he threatened to veto it if any part made a loan-had to stiffarm Republicans, too.
-Even after the bill passed, the troops still didn't get body armour, families had to buy it for them out of their own funds.

Is it that people are THAT DUMB that this is too hard for them to understand?

[loveable liberal]

3. 4 weeks to go mahhh brothaaahhhh

cant show your hand all at once, have to space it out a bit i figure....

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

4. Yeah but it worries me a bit. During debate #1 when shrub brought this

up, I was, like, literally rubbing my hands together, telling my wife, "now watch this shit!" But was very disappointed when he hit only a single and not a grand slam.

I think I will add to the volume of JK campaign email as suggested above.

[sonicx]

8. yes, please. Kerry has been terrible at killing this and the IWR issue

All he has to do is do a press conference on it and the issue dies right then and there. no more flip flop

[sonicx]

6. NO

this issue allows more flip flop talking points for rupukes. Kerry can EASILY kill it and make Bush look like a fool.

[yodermon]

12. I have been beating my head against the wall

about this one for weeks now. I can only assume that they CLEARLY and DELIBERATELY chose to NOT answer the $87B question (which is really a softball question, see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2443166).

So, WHY aren't they answering it?

1) They are saving it for later, because it is so easy to answer, and the fact that shrubco keeps pounding it will reveal their gibbering desperation.

2) There really is some political booby-trap by answering it this directly, which we (myself, anyway) have not seen yet.

Needless to say I hope it is #1. :evilgrin: .. but if there is some more analysis we can do on #2 then let's figure it out.

[LynnTheDem]

5. How to debunk and slay bush all in 15 seconds...

We voted FOR one version of the bill.

We voted AGAINST the 2nd, CHANGED version of the bill...the SAME VERSION that BUSH THREATENED TO VETO.

HOW COME no one is demanding bush explain why he threatened to VETO HIS OWN BILL and NOT FUND OUR TROOPS?

[Awsi Dooger]

7. Most baffling aspect of this campaign

Every anti-Kerry person I meet in Las Vegas mentions that $87 billion vote almost immediately. When I explain the specifics, they dismiss my claim because they've never heard it before and are sure that would not be the case if true.

If we're not saving the explanation for a better day, we're strangely inept.

[sonicx]

9. i say inept. Kerry or his advisors are dumb if they are holding back on

purpose. This is hurting him bigtime.

[secular_warrior]

20. His advisors are very inept - we should never be tied with these criminals

With the disasterous record amassed by this this criminal adminstration, this election should've been a slam dunk.

Some days I wake up and cannot believe we are not 15+ points ahead.

[secular_warrior]

19. "baffling" - I agree - it's the whole basis for the "flip flop" charge

They should've dealt with this as soon as the attacks came.

Bush sent the troops to war WITHOUT the items they needed to FIGHT and WIN the war. What the hell was Bush doing coming to Congress asking for money for the war MONTHS AFTER the war began.

Kerry voted for the 87B when it would be going to the soldiers, against it when Bush decided it would be a giveaway to Halliburton.

[NightOwwl]

10. "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11"

Maybe you missed this blatant lie by Cheney tonight. I think we should start flogging him with this, 24/7.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

11. I agree. But there's no reason that can't be flogged, AND one of the

MAIN RW talking points put completely to bed, all at the same time.

[Hello_Kitty]

13. It'll be addressed at Friday's townhall debate for sure

No worries. Then he'll have enough time to elaborate on it.

[sonicx]

14. if he doesn't, my head will explode. nt

[high density]

15. I wonder as well

Tonight I was a bit baffled as to why this didn't get smacked down once and for all.

[sonicx]

16. kick

[Dogmudgeon]

17. I think people know it's a bogus issue

We're learning fast, arent't we?

Team Bush's well-worn dirty tricks are looking mighty old. I think people have gotten wise to them.

--bkl

[usregimechange]

18. They wanted to counterpuch, but I agree...

Kerry voted against a method of funding.

[fujiyama]

21. I must agree with you

This is the one thing that kinda sticks out - "He voted for the war and then voted against funding the troops".

We know this is BS. Kerry voted for the 87 billion when the wealthiest agreed to pay their fair share. This should be made clear. That and the fact that the money was mostly going to Halliburton anyways.

Most effective though is that Bush threatened to veto the bill unless it appeared EXACTLY as he wanted it.