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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:02 AM
Original message
American Academy of Family Physicians compares health plans
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 08:03 AM by familydoctor
AAFP.org compares health plans:

Summary found here:

http://www.aafp.org/x29337.xml

On this page there is a link to the website that did the report.

Here is the PDF:

http://www.lewin.com/NR/rdonlyres/e3atrfxcgu4ge5exrxwbqcespnrtjpckiofchqjmc47ucccnysofc25cdom67s42ng2b446i7dnfyj/LewinAnalysisCandidatesProposals.pdf
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deek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. good stuff!
thank you
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. So I read through it.....
and i'm still not sure where the money comes from to pay for kerry's healthplan.


I'm vaguely aware of reducing spending via military budget, and the tax-cut rollback, but that is about a half-tril short of goal, no?

i need to be able to argue the finer points with those fence-sitters and rw-ers that don't want higher taxes.


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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. How many of your friends are in that over $200,000 bracket?
Those are the folks that will have a tax increase.

READ KERRY's tax plan.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. A couple actually....
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 02:47 PM by MsTryska
and that's why they are concerned.


and i have read Kerry's tax plan, which makes me even more confused, because along with the roll-back ont he top 2%, there's further tax cuts for the rest of us.

So where is the money coming from for Healthcare? I really don't see how we can pay for this without a tax increase. and I frankly don't mind a tax increas,e if it means people outside of the current system like my room-mate or my not-quite-old-enough-for-medicare Mom will be covered, and my overall insurance rates for myself will be lower. But i need to be able to discuss this with people who find God in the details.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. it is coming from the same place it is coming from now
Only instead of huge insurance company profits, we will be spending more on health benefits.
We are already spending more on healthcare now than anywhere else in the world. The money is just going to get moved around so that more people are covered and the only people who are going to suffer are the insurance companies who are currently raking in exhorbitant profits. Some businesses and people are going to pay more taxes, but they are also going to get less expensive health care. More small employers will be able to give healthcare to their employees and because of that people will no longer be going to the emergency room for colds which have turned into massive infections. Costs will go down and hospitals will pass on the savings. We are all going to benefit.
I just wish they had the guts to make a universal single payer government based plan. In the long run that would be best for all of us...but the insurance lobby will not hear of it.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. i see.....so basically a redistribution
of what the insurance companies get, i'm presuming some of the savings through the medicare RX overhaul, as well as the rollbacks, and Iraq savings. I'm guessing he'll be working on Tort Reform too, right? I'm of two-minds on that.

thanks for explaining! it helps me better answer the questions when they are put to me.

A Universal Healthcare plan would be great too, but baby steps.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Tort reform is all smoke and mirrors - "Jackpot justice" is a myth!
The insurance companies blame the alleged big verdicts as a reason why the insurance rates have gone up, but in essence the increased insurance rates (all types of insurance, home owner, health, malpractice, business, et cetera) are a result of the weak stock market and the poor investments of the insurance companies. Insurance companies make profits and pay their top executives big salaries and pass it off to the consumers by increasing the insurance rates and blaming nasty trial lawyers. That is sheer bs. California has had tort reform for years and their medical mal and other insurance rates continue to increase.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. let's jsut get rid of all Insurance companies!
it's all a racket, anyways. they really do catch you coming and going, but it seems they are a necessary evil.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. They need to be regulated in the same vein that Utility companies
are regulated.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You think that would work?
hmm...it's not a bad thought. i'm gonna have to ruminate on that one, and get back to you.
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Princess Turandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. You can administer a health plan w/o it being for profit..
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 05:44 PM by Princess Turandot
many of the Blue Cross Associations did it for years. (Many of them have now gone for profit.)They also process Medicare claims: the government doesn't process Medicare claims itself: it farms it out to insurance companies. In New York at least, a company often pays an insurance company not to 'insure' claims but rather just to administer them. (A percentage is added to the cost of actual claims processed.)

One problem is with the for profit insurers of the world, including the HMOS. They have to pay for larger executive structures, and depending on how they are structured, may need to pay dividends to investors.

I've been working in healthcare finance in NY for about 20 years now, both as an external CPA/consultant and an internal fiscal administrator. Up until the mid-90's, HMOs could not negotiate contracts with hospitals because the rates for all payors except for Medicare, were effectively set by the state. Most of our employees did not opt for HMO plans, but we did have some as options. The year discounting became legal, the largest HMO we dealt with demanded a 25% reduction on the inpatient hospitalization payment rate they previously paid to us under the state formula. At the same time, as a buyer of their services, they increased our premium for those employers who chose them by about 12%. Those reductions in payments & increases in premiums substantially left the healthcare system.

Insurance companies are a 'necessary evil' IMO because no one wants to take on the insurance industry, which would take a financial hit if the current system substantially changed. An employer for example, could buy their healthcare coverage from the government: a national system does not need to be paid for completely through taxation.

The single thing abt the Clinton Administration that upset me the most was its botched attempt at 'healthcare reform'. In reality, it was still including the insurance companies in the mix, by creating a ridiculous set of 'buying groups', so people could pay a little less for their insurance premiums. It also IMO made the HMO concept the be-all and end-all of proper healthcare, but left that management in the hands of the insurance companies, whose only motivation to keep a person 'healthy' is to make more money. And worst of all, it created the idea that healthcare reform had to be profoundly complex.

And no matter how people spin it, high quality healtcare is not going to be cheap. There are ways to keep costs down somewhat, but if you want the best healthcare in the world, it's going to cost you.
Imagine if you had a brain tumor in 1965. The best picture they could get of your brain wouldn't have been a whole lot better than a chest xray. Now we have MRI's which take beautiful pictures of the brain. It will cost you $3 million or so to buy one, and another $500,000 at least to install one, because they require substantial lead shielding. NYC probably has a few more MRIs than we need, and there are probably areas in the country that don't have enough, and something should probably be done about that. But I don't think we can have care 'reform' without people coming to grips with the fact that effective healthcare, which keeps us alive, cannot be done cheaply in a country the size of ours. But is paying for Star Wars defense systems a better investment?
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks for the great explanation Princess Turandot.
Edited on Tue Oct-05-04 08:55 AM by MsTryska
My Dad was a doctor, and I used to process his insurance when I worked in his office. This was beofre HMOs took over tho. I definitely agree that Health Coverage will be expensive, by it's very nature, and I feel it would would be way more effective for everyday people than Star Wars. And as I said, I don't mind paying more.

But it seems so many people just can't see beyong themselves. Unless, like my redneck coworker, they are experiencing the pain of high medical bills firsthand. Now he's for Universal Healthcare. And he's for Free Education for everybody. He is still against race-mixing tho. So who knows. As more people get bitten by healtcare expense, more will see the light I guess.



And really for me, after crunching the numbers, It seems Kerry Vs. Bush, as far as personal expense is pretty much 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.


Under Bush, my personal insurance expenses will go up, because rates will keep going up, as will my copayments, and deductibles. Pretty much more of the same, moneywise and less benefit for it. ANd it will be post-tax dollars (except for that medical savings plan crap - which i can guarantee you won't get any money from me - i can't even afford a regular savings plan, right now.)

Under Kerry - I most likely will spend a little bit more (whether as much as in Bush's plan - i doubt it), and we can have what? 75% MORE people covered. I'll take that please.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. good stuff: this is where the rubber meets the road
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. Kickage.
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