Debate Q: Bush "Why did your grandfather Back Hitler and Nazis in WWII?

[seventhson]

and how did YOU benefit from it???"

I would be SO happy if anyone had the courage to ask Bush this question in the debates.

Whattya think?

[jpgray]

1. Not a chance for any moderator to ask that

But Michael Moore could work his 'deserter' magic, perhaps. Make the claim, have everyone talk about how outrageous it is before people start to discover it is true.

[evilqueen]

32. Israel

Yanno what I don't quite *get* is why Israel would side with Bush... unless they just don't know the background, but I find that a little hard to believe.

Is it just the money? Does the Holocaust only come up when it's convenient?

[grace0418]

2. I would die from happiness

but we all know it won't happen. I guess I'll just be satisfied if I don't hear any bullshit like "I don't really have a comment, I just want to thank you for bringing God back into the White House." GACK!

[Eye and Monkey]

3. how does one feel when hearing "Your Grandpa was a Nazi, a REAL Nazi."

Chimpie would melt down or brag - one or the other.

[seventhson]

6. It would piss him off and THAT would great!

Don't you think?

[Silverhair]

4. Bad idea.

There are many things in life that might be emotionally satisfying, but would backfire big time. That is one of those things. We (hopefully) gained a lot of ground Thursday night. Don't blow it.

[seventhson]

5. No! Americans are generally ignorant of this. They deserve the TRUTH

and if the truth hurts that is just too bad.

But it will NOT hurt Kerry and it WILL damage Bush if enough people KNOW about this.

What are you afraid of. A backlash against KERRY because the BUSHES are actual and virtual NAZIS???

And if we on the democratic left cannot make the significance of these facts understandable to the electorate, then it is OUR fault for both remaining silent and being afraid AND for not demanding that our candidate address the issue.

[ClassWarrior]

19. How would it backfire on US if THE PRESS asked it?

I really don't care if it backfires on those whores - their credibility's non-existent for me and most Americans anyway. And then the story gets out there.

Sure the RW would try to turn it on us, but you have to expect that kind of behavior from snakes - no matter what we do.

23.

[seventhson]

25. It WON'T backfire because it is the TRUTH. Most people are just ignorant

of the fact that the Bushes were AMONG THE PRINCIPLE FINANCIERS OF HITLER.

The fact is that the media was complicit with Wall Street and Hitler in WW II too and will refuse to touch it(to a certain degree - there is an excellent book on the NYTimes and its failure to report adequately the Holocaust and there are plenty of books on the corporate media which show the same finaicial players with Hitler as with our media). 60 Minutes killed the story in 2000 - they were cowardlyt chickenshits who kowtowed to the Bush media whores in the executive offices.

It is just like the Saudis today owning HUGE blocks of shares in media corporations.

It will NOT hurt us at all to SOEAK TRUTH TO POWER.

If speaking the truth is wrong, I don't wanta be right.

[HFishbine]

7. Irrelevant

Guilt by association decades removed is not going to get any votes.

[DavidDvorkin]

8. Exactly right, HFishbine

And I wish DUers would stop harping on what Bush's ancestor did. It is indeed irrelevant.

[seventhson]

10. "Harping"???? About Holocaust profits and the Bushes backing Hitler???

It was Bush's grandfather and great grandfather who backed Hitler.

It was THEY and their friends who inundated the US with Nazis after WWII. It was Prescott who used these profits to become a US Senator in the 1950's. It was he who got his son GHW into politics and into the power elites and hence into the global intelligence seat of power at the CIA where they PROTECTED Nazi war criminals and they used neofascist networks for bloody purposes globally. GHW USED these Nazi ties to helpt the Republican party in the 1970's and 1980's and 1990's. His son was handed the Nazi blood money, the Holocaust profits, the Nazi apparatus globaslly, the neoNazi neocon political and intelligence apparatus globally and is NOW using that apparatus to effectuate the goals of Hitler which they have been financing for 70+ years!!!

A global fascist power run by Aryan supremecists.

Jesus, how blind ARE we. How ignoarantr of history? How unable to see beyond the texas chainsaw massacre psycho-mug of the shrub?

It is ALL part of the same game plan hatched with Hitler and the Bushes seventy years ago.

Fascism, as Camus demonstrates in "The Plague" is patient. It can wait in moldy places for the right moment to infect for centuries.

In this case it was barely hiding in the crevices of the Bush psycho mindset of Aryan nightmares wrought on humanity.

Dubya and his minions purpose was. among other things, to keep these crimes hidden forever and to hold that power so none of them will even be held accountable.

You are only helping them when you say "so what?".

[zmdem]

23. Read your first sentence

"It was Bush's grandfather and great grandfather who backed Hitler".

Both are dead, neither is running for office, and G.W. Bush was not responsible for their actions.

Probably best to go after the president on the things he is responsible for. I doubt if the public will hold Bush responsible for Hitler in the 1930's. Even Karl Rove can't get earpiece messages back to W. 70 years ago.

[seventhson]

30. GW profitted from the deaths of millions and is covering it up

this makes him complicit NOW.

[MetalFingersDOOM]

24. You're completely right...

The Bush family has carried Hitler's torch into the US, and have no intentions of letting the huge amount of progress toward American fascism they've made over these past four years be set back by "some silly election."

[AntiFascist]

33. If Iran attacks Israel with nukes....

because of Bush admins. plan to carry out "regime change" in Iran (published on PNAC site) would that change your mind about irrelevance? There was something I heard on the news yesterday that I had never heard before, it referred to the "War on Terror" as the "World War on Terror." If the administration really wants to protect Israel, would it be stirring up the Arabs so much at the last minute?

[seventhson]

9. It is an ongoing fascist criminal enterprise. This makes SHRUB complicit

it is NOT guilt by association.

The Bushes pocketed profits from the death and slave labor campsd.

Did you not even SEE the Guardian article a few days ago about Holocaust survivors suing the Bushes for stealing from the dead and dying and using slave labor.

The money is in Dubya's pocket.

It is being used against us NOW.

It represents the whole Bush extrem fascist idealogy of global fascist terror and power vias ruthlessness and the use of "Christianity" and rabid Nationalism (hear him say he "leads the WORLD" in the debates?)

It is an intergenerational corporate war against US. Against America. Against our values of freedom, human rights, and human dignity.

How is THAT f#cking irrelevent???

[seventhson]

11. These people have the blood of millions on their hands and Shrub is

the beneficiary and the man they have placed in power to cover up the crimes in perpetuity.

It HAS top be said.

The souls of MILLIONS are crying out for truth and justice FINALLY.

We may never see justice. But we may see the dismantling of theior operation if we acknowledge it and tear it down piece by piece via the political process and the international courts of justice.

and it is NOT just Nazi Germany that they are accountable for for sure, but it is the same M.O., the same methodology of propaganda and lies and brute force andf ruthlessness and intolerance.

Mark my words.

If Kerry loses it will be WORSE here than Nazi Germany.

It is approaching that now on a global scale.

The Holocaust will look like only a DROP in the sea of blood.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Could You Elaborate?

Bush sucks no doubt but I don't think the dystopia you suggest will materialize...

[seventhson]

14. The Dystopia is already here for BILLIONS of people & Bush makes it worse

Main Entry: dys·to·pia
Pronunciation: (")dis-'tO-pE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from dys- + -topia (as in utopia)
Date: circa 1950
1 : an imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives
2 : ANTI-UTOPIA 2
- dys·to·pi·an /-pE-&n/ adjective


I work in the inner city. It is a place of fear and dehumanization.

Much of America is fearful and dehumanized and this is magnified a hundred times over around the world BECAUSE of Bush.

Take off the blinders and read this:

http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/fwis/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. "worse here than Nazi Germany"

Hitler killed 12,000,000 Germans....



I just don't see cattle cars, death camps, and forced relocations in our future....

[seventhson]

17. They already exist, but MOSTLY they are overseas

What were the post 9-11 roundups.

What is Guantanamo.

Germany put most of their death and slave camps in Poland - outsourced.

The environmental decay is killing millions here.

It is only moderately different in kind.

Yeah Hitler AND the Bushes killed Millions and Millions in Europe and globally (Africa, Asia, etc.)

Cattle Cars were used in Afghanistan and Guantanamo.

Wake up and take your rose=rimmed glasses off.

They WILL do it again if they can get away with it.

And the way they will get away with it is people, just like many Jews in Nazi Germany, will simply go "Nahhhh! Won't happen. The worlkd won't let it."

Guess what?

The world was wrong then and it CAN happen here.

Mark my words.

[Octafish]

21. Family fortune built on -- in large part -- profits made off of Hitler.

That's pretty relevant to why the BFEE is so powerful today. Don't you think?

[Union Thug]

13. Better Question: How much of the Bush family fortune...

...is being paid back to the jewish people as reparations for the war profiteering and tacit (or overt) support of Hitler's Germany? Don't you think that would be the right thing to do, considering a portion of your family's wealth was extracted from its relationship with the Nazi Germany?

[seventhson]

15. Robert Lederman, a Jew, wrote a great piece on this

do a google on him and Bush and Nazis and you will find LOTS of great material on this subject from a Jewish perspective.

[Octafish]

18. That question would knock the BFEE -- OUT of power and business!

Naysayers and those new to the subject might want to read:

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power

Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are still being felt by today's president

Ben Aris in Berlin and Duncan Campbell in Washington
Saturday September 25, 2004
The Guardian

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

CONTINUED...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

Instead of prosecuting Bush, the guy used the NAZIs brought over after the war -- Nazi spymaster Gen. Reinhard Gehlen was hired by CIA -- to consolidate conservative power in the USA. Nice people. They kill Presidents, Senator, and anybody else who gets in their way.

[seventhson]

20. If only more people actually Read and UNDERSTOOD this

the history is getting clearer and clearer.

The Bushes WERE the enemy in WWII. GHW joined the navy as COVER for his father - but the crimes continues and continue today.

ONE criominal enterprise. 3 generations and counting

[Octafish]

22. They also "forget" these turds tried to kill FDR.

When that attempt killed the Mayor of Chicago, instead, these turds tried to overthrow Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- a Liberal President, ELECTED four times to that office.

The Attempted Coup Against FDR

By Barbara LaMonica

The John F. Kennedy assassination represents a theme in our political history. The causes, even the inevitability, of the assassination were born out of the power struggles among the ruling elite which are consistent throughout the American story. These struggles revolve around questions of what is the proper role of government vis a vis the business community’s pursuit of its own self-interest. Is the government’s role minimal or laissez-faire? Should government only provide a stable environment of "law and order", through increased police powers, conducive to the maximization of profits and the minimization of workers wages and benefits? Or does the government have a higher purpose? Is it responsible for the common good? Is it the one entity capable of implementing justice, equality, and a partial redistribution of wealth through the regulation and taxation of corporations in order to provide a cushion against the more egregious effects of the free market? Should it ensure the worker’s share in the profits they helped to create?

At various times factions of what has become known as "corporate America" have argued over which role of government is ultimately more advantageous to their own ends. Generally speaking, banking and Wall Street favor less government. Retail, light manufacturing and small to medium size corporations are more tolerant of an activist government which might put more money in the hands of their consumers, and protect small businesses against the unfair competitive practices of larger corporations.

The stock market crash of 1929 and the ensuing Great Depression dramatically thrust the question of government’s role to the forefront of American political and corporate life. The election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt represented a revolutionary realignment of political power: the ascendancy of the Democratic party facilitated by new voting coalitions of rural south and industrialized north which dislodged the Republican Party’s nearly seventy-year dominance, signaling the abandonment of laissez-faire economics in favor of state regulation. The losers in this political process coalesced into right-wing Republicanism, and the next sixty years of American history is, in part, the story of their attempt to regain power, reinstitute Lassiez-faire policies, and dismantle the New Deal.1 I would like to suggest that the forces behind the assassination of President Kennedy were born in the furies which the Great Depression unleashed between these competing sectors of American political and economic life.

I believe that in 1934 there was a foreshadowing of the JFK assassination. A conspiracy was uncovered in which right-wing elements of big business, namely the DuPont family and the Morgan banking interests, planned to finance and arm a veteran’s army to march on the White House and hold President Roosevelt captive.2 The conspiracy was reported by two- time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler. Although the House Committee to Investigate Un-American Activities found his allegations credible, it failed to call major conspirators to testify, and the Committee deleted crucial testimony from its final report to the public. The press relegated the story to the back pages, and discredited those, including Major Butler, who tried to alert the public to the threat against republican government. No prosecutions were forthcoming from the Justice Department, in part because the main witness who would have substantiated Butler’s claims died suddenly from pneumonia at the age of 37. In short, there was a cover-up, maybe worse.

Background

Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected in November 1932, three years into the Great Depression. National income was cut by more than half and five thousand banks had crashed, wiping out nine million savings accounts. More than fifteen million workers had lost their jobs. Not only was the question "What to do" being asked, but also "Who was to blame?" A Senate investigation into the machinations of Wall Street found that investors organized raids on the stock market, pulled out all their money hoping for prices to drop, and then bought low. Insiders were also afforded the opportunity to buy securities at prices much lower than the public. Financiers were lining their pockets with fantastic bonuses, and the committee found that "...the Stock Exchange was no more than a glorified gambling casino where the odds were weighted heavily against the eager outsiders."3

CONTINUED...

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html

[JohnKleeb]

28. Ahh General Butler, unsung hero

Yep the elites tried to kill FDR, I am so glad I mentioned him as why I am a democrat today.

[genius]

26. Showing the Reichstag and suppression of civil liberties would be a great

commercial. At the end we could see something to make is clear it is happening here. At the debate, Kerry can't mention family skeletins but he can say that he wants to stop the kind of suppression of civil liberties in America and mention that the suppression of dissent was why Germany came totally under Hitler's power.

[sofa king]

27. Might want to check the Straight Dope on this.

The Straight Dope is rarely far from the mark when it comes to this sort of thing:

So, did Bush and his firm finance the Nazis and enable Germany to rearm? Indirectly, yes. But they had a lot of company. Some of the most distinguished names in American business had investments or subsidiaries in prewar Germany, including Standard Oil and General Motors. Critics have argued for years that without U.S. money, the Nazis could never have waged war. But American business has always invested in totalitarian regimes--witness our dealings with mainland China.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030214.html

[blondeatlast]

29. SD is the tin-foil hatters worst nightmare.

That's why I'm such a die-hard fan!

Thank you for choosing the ice tea...

[seventhson]

31. But...But... But WHAT? they have too many buts

The fact is that the Bushes were in on the China deals -- GHW was ambassadfor to China under Nixon and his brother is a HUGE China investment collaborator with those fascists in China.

Same thing with Standard Oil and GM. They were all in it with Bush together.

The BUTS do not fit very well.

They should be AND there were coillaborators with the Bushes and Hitler deals such as Esso and Chase bank and the Morgans YES!!!

But they were all in it together and the Bushes were the key players running and managing the dirty Hitler death money for the Morgans, Rockefellers and Dulles.

[Octafish]

34. Days after Tiananmen Massacre, Poppy Bush sent Scowcroft...

...to clink champagne toasts with the Red Chinese who'd just killed thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators. "Donworryboudid."



Down with the BFEE.

Unless you don't believe in the BFEE.