Web screenshot shows idiocy of CBS post-debate spin:

[Skinner]

I was on the CBS Website, and I noticed these two links, side-by-side, which clearly shows the Media Spin vs. Reality:

Here's the Screenshot:



First link is: Experts Rate Debate a Draw

Second link is: Poll: Uncommitted Voters Say Kerry Won

Click the second link. The poll results are DEVASTATING. The voters know the truth, even if the media refuses to report it.

(I kinda think it might be in our interest to start collecting more of these "Media Spin v. Reality" links from other news media.)

[HuskerDem]

1. First thing I heard this morning

Was one talking head on MSNBC asking another talking head if there was any clear winner last night for undecided voters.

Second talking head: Absolutely not!

Yet on their own network last night, 6 out of 6 undecided voters they had gathered said they were leaning to Kerry.


Really sick.

[MallRat]

2. The most revealing poll number in the CBS poll.

Does the candidate have a clear plan for dealing with the situation in Iraq?

Kerry:
Pre-debate: Yes 14%, No 82%
Post-debate: Yes 52%, No 46%

Folks, that's a 38-point swing in public awareness on Kerry's position on Iraq. Absolutely stunning.

In one magnificent night, Kerry has absolutely eviscerated Bush's primary criticism.

Folks, the closer has taken the mound.

-MR

[deutsey]

3. Reminds of when Clinton's State of the Union was trashed by "experts"

and was a huge hit with the public.

Shows how disconnected pundits are from people.

[sangh0]

4. The debate was about credibility, and not just bush*'s

The media's credibility is also on the line.

[chromotone]

5. Yeah, and check this out...

There was no clear winner in Thursday night's first presidential debate, according to interviews with experts across the country.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/01/politics/main646711.shtml

Yet, a poll on the very same page says this:

Who won the presidential debate?

John Kerry:
88.97%
President Bush:
9.77%
Neither man. It was a draw :
1.26%

So, 1.2% agree with the "experts?"

[MsUnderstood]

10. C'mon you guys

We all know we are not the experts about who should be the president.

Let's leave this job up to the media. Ignore everything and about 2 weeks before november, start tuning into your radio and tv stations and let them tell you who to vote for.

Remember, Bush is a straight shooter, and will stick with a horse even when it is lying on the ground dead with flies buzzing, vultures swirling and maggots crawling. . .

[Wapsie B]

11. Yeah!

And who would you rather have a beer with? A fancy-pants elitist like Kerry or a common guy like Bush? /sarcasm

[dumpster_baby]

6. And yet most democrats still buy the media's spin against Leftism

Here after the debate, before the Iraq War, after WTC911, you have all seen how the media SYSTEMATICALLY lies and slants its coverage to favor those in power. Surely you must now acknowledge that they have been manipulating us all along.

[Fridays Child]

7. Experts? There can be only one reason for bringing in "experts..."

...and that's to spin it. The only opinions that matter are those of the voters. But you know that Kerry won the night when the best that the so-called experts can say in defense of Blinky is that it was a draw.

[Boredtodeath]

8. The spin isn't WORKING!

All morning we've been jumping around the channels (but not CNN) and watching the talking heads and "reporters" try to spin this for Bush and it just isn't working.

Just one example on MSNBC:
They spin, then bring on a 13 yr. old reporter for Scholastic that shoots them all to hell with "Kerry supporters are more supportive, and Bush supporters are more supportive, but the undecideds who watched with me all went Kerry."

She kicked their asses.

Then the male reporter said "that's not a 13 yr. old mind in that 13 yr. old girl" and the female said "I wouldn't want to argue with her when she asks to go out."

It was hysterical!!!!

[deutsey]

9. A dyed-in-the-wool Bush supporter I know even conceded that

Kerry won the debate. This guy is a typical Fox/Rush/Hannity listener who thinks CBS and other networks are controlled by liberals.

[whattheheck]

14. Time Mag called it a "draw" too! WTF?!?

I had the same bewilderment when seeing the Time Mag headline, calling it a "draw". Who are these "experts", by the way? I haven't looked at the CBS article yet, but I'm curious to see exactly which reporters are willing to put their credibility on the line and say they think it was a draw, when even Joe Scarborough scored this a clear win for Kerry last night. As John Stewart said in closing last night, "And tomorrow we will learn that everything we just saw actually never happened..."

Time article:
http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,703928,00.html?cnn=yes

[Shae]

20. Exactly the same here ...

The guy that my son and I refer to as "The Republican," and who is 115% behind Bush* said today that he was very disappointed in Bush*'s performance -- that he seemed unprepared.

I only hope that the media's spin on this will enlighten people on how right-biased the media has become.

[ClassWarrior]

12. What kind of idiot parent ARGUES with a 13 year old about anything??

If she asks to go out and you don't want her to, you say NO, and that's that.

Those MSGOP whores are so frickin out of touch it's ridiculous.

23.

[chenGOD]

13. And to complete the irony....look at the link above that...

"In the Din of the Spin Bin"...

Those poll results let me hold out a little bit of hope...

Although the spin that spews forth from the "experts" is digusting:

"My impression is that very few Americans are going to change their vote. They made their positions clear," said Stephen Hess, a presidential historian at the Brookings Institution. "They in a sense cancelled each other out."
Yeah the Brookings Institute, that impartial bastion of liberty and democracy...

[AZCat]

15. Here's more of the "he said, she said" crap (from Reuters)

Focus Group Gives Slight Edge to Kerry
By Alan Elsner

Here are the anti-Kerry media talking points that appear in the article:

"John Kerry is cold, he was yelling all the time. Bush is friendly and speaking to us, not to Jim (moderator Jim Lehrer). Bush -- I believe him, I believe everything he says. He still has my vote," he said.

...

She was pleased that neither candidate had indulged in personal attacks and said Bush had made it clear that he had a lot of real world experience as president. Overall however, she finished the evening a stronger Kerry supporter than before.

...

"I really felt Bush made eye contact with his audience. Kerry was looking askance," she said. "He didn't stand up and show that he had not been inconsistent on Iraq."

Once again, the reporter fails to draw any conclusions and instead parrots what other people say. To someone who didn't watch last night's debate, reading the article provides no insight. Maybe Alan Elsner's original article was longer, but the one that appears on Yahoo! sucks.

Caveat: Because of copyright limitations, these quotes have all been pulled out of context. Read the actual article if you have any doubts about meaning.

[spanone]

16. CBS must have gotten the memo about the FCC revoking their license

[Bread and Circus]

17. Nice Catch....

The "so called experts" need to get fired.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

18. Jeb Bush says that for undecideds, debate "probably a draw"

<snip>

"I think it will be marginal as to the impact in the election," Bush said during a speech at The Herald's Americas Conference this morning. He added that he thought his brother, President George W. Bush, won the exchange, which took place at the University of Miami.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/9810645.htm?1c

[bemildred]

19. You will always hear:

a. "no knockout punch"
b. "the race is still close"

No matter what. You cannot manipulate or finesse (steal)
a race that is not close. If they admit Shrub is toast, it
means they have given up, and they will never give up.

[MADem]

21. Please forgive me for taking out my blunted cudgel

...and beating my favorite dead horse one more time.

I saw that article. I immediately clicked on the email for the CBS website and sent them an email asking, politely, what those so-called experts were smoking, and was it a legal substance? I positioned myself as a soft democrat, and said that even from that perspective, Kerry wiped the floor with George, after he ripped his head off and crapped down his windpipe. I used nicer language, of course--it was actually quite temperate--but I made it clear that I thought the story was utter, absolute nonsense, and they were dead wrong.

I'm telling you, friends and neighbors--they are going to try for "Sigh, 2004." That 'Gore Sighs' debate was initially rated a tie or a win for Gore, until Rove's cretins got to the press. Let no bullshit remark go unanswered, challenge these talking boobs at every damn turn, become ardent keyboard commandos in the Kerry Navy, at least until this is no longer the top story. Keep your remarks brief, but let them know that you hoist the bullshit flag on their spin.

BUT!!!!!!! In breaking news, they may have found Lori Hacking's corpse in the landfill--that'll move the debate to the back burner! One dead body beats a live Senator and a whining frat boy in Newsroom Poker any day....

[ProfessorPlum]

32. One small correction

It wasn't Rove's cretins getting to the press.

It was the press themselves. The press themselves created that spin. I think originally one of Luntz's focus group people mentioned that they found Gore sighing to be a bit of a distraction, and the media ho's went with that all by themselves.

F*cking presstitutes.

[MADem]

35. Given that they have found TWO GOP shills

...in focus groups for this first debate (the Miami Herald and the CNN focus groups both had fake undecideds who were revealed to be GOP operatives--all in under 24 hours!) it would not surprise me if Luntz (a GOP pollster, who just got shitcanned from NBC) planted that guy in his group back in 2000.

If I had to bet, I'd bet the "sighing" guy was a plant, he was planted by Luntz, and Luntz was the one who "conversationally" spread the word amongst his peers, on marching orders from Karl.

Of course, you are quite right about the press. it didn't take much for the press to smell blood and go on the hunt, that is certainly true--they went after Gore like they went after Dean--a pack of assholes. They were in the "tearing down" mode, and relishing the role. Since weecowboy has been elected, they've been transitioning into the "fear" mode...from pack dogs to neutered lapdogs in four short years!

[wildeyed]

22. My home town paper ran an editorial saying the debates

were 'too close to call' and all Bush had to do, basically, was not crap himself on camera to hold his own. Geez, talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations. I sent my LTTE in already siting the polls. I will notify some local like minded folks to get writing. I hope they get eviscerated in tomorrow's forum.

[PotatoBoy]

23. What the *FUCK* is this supposed to mean?!

When you vote, this appears at the bottom of the window:

NOTE: This is not a scientific poll. The results above are for information purposes only, and should not be confused with the results of the scientific polls conducted by CBS News.

SCIENTIFIC polls conducted by CBS News?! What the fuck is so scientific about them? How can you get any more scientific than just adding up the numbers of votes for each candidate? Yeah right. Scientific = biased.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. Simply acknowledging the freepers...

If you look at Free Republic you'll see them boasting about how they deleted cookies to vote 20, 30 times, running up their numbers. They're just saying you can't put a lot of stock in on-line polls. OTOH, despite all the freeping of the polls our guy still destroyed the chimp!

[SoCalDemocrat]

24. Its up to DU to bombard CBS over that Draw article

I did. Started a seperate thread for it as well. Not sure where it scrolled off to though.

[bigpathpaul]

25. Here's a CNN snapshot: Slight Edge or 73 Point Edge?!?

[Kierkegaard]

30. Um...

A slight 73 point edge?

[UrbScotty]

26. But... CBS is a liberal organization!

:eyes:

[MessiahRp]

27. Our local paper was spinning HARD for Bush today

http://www.wisinfo.com/northwestern/news/local/stories/local_18049893.shtml

They even identified a supposed Green Party voter that switched to Bush which you know has to be BS. I am writing a LTTE today about it but it is absolutely ridiculous. Anyone that watched the debate last night and wasn't on drugs or intoxicated could not say what these people are saying.

Rp

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

28. "Mr. Bush had a command of facts"????

WTF? What debate were they watching?

This is interesting though:

Kerry was presidential.

Mr. Bush had a command of facts.

[Kierkegaard]

33. Kerry had a banner night.

Bunnypants had a freakin' meltdown. To call it anything else is absolute unmitigated bullshit.

Keep those LTTEs coming. The news cretins have got an ass whoopin' to deal with. I'm sick of being talked down to like I'm some kind of degenerative social misfit with a single digit IQ. F'in assbags!

[KittyWampus]

29. Skinner, Thanks For Doing This

[LibertyLover]

34. Debate Winner

I had not intended to watch the debate last night - I mean, why put myself through the agony of having to listen to Bush, but my husband was flipping channels and landed on the local public television broadcast and we watched it. Both of us are voting Kerry of course, but it was a joy to see him in action. The zinger he got in about Kennedy's sec. state going to talk to de Gaulle and offering to show him photos of the missiles in Cuba and de Gaulle's response that the word of the president of the US was enough for him, he didn't need to see photos and that clearly such a response would not be forthcoming for any messengers sent by the current occupant of White House literally had us cheering, albeit softly so we didn't awaken the sleeping 2 year old upstairs. Afterwards listening to the pundits, we wondered if they had watched the same debate we had. Kerry clearly had Bush on the ropes, but the talking heads refused to admit it. However Bush had done so badly that the best the "experts" could do was declare it a draw. Such silliness. I'm relieved to hear that the public wasn't fooled.

[greekspeak]

36. This is exactly what I am talking about

Kerry mopped up the floor with Shrub last night so badly that we should start calling Shrub Resident Swiffer.

Experts agreed: both candidates performed well. Kerry was presidential; Mr. Bush had a command of facts. But while no one would declare a winner Text, all agreed Kerry scored points by standing toe-to-toe with Mr. Bush on foreign policy and national security.

BULLSHIT...even the people at FAUX admitted that Shrub got his ass whooped.

"My impression is that very few Americans are going to change their vote. They made their positions clear," said Stephen Hess, a presidential historian at the Brookings Institution. "They in a sense cancelled each other out." Hess believes that Kerry portrayed himself adequately in a debate focused on international issues, but Mr. Bush did so as well.

BULLSHIT...Bush stammered and stuttered and humphed and sweated like he was being grilled. This is called "adeqaute?"

"Tactically, I think both men performed strongly. I would not say that there was a strong performance and a weak performance. In that sense you can say there not a clear winner," said Professor William Galston, a University of Maryland political scientist. "On the strategic level, going into the debate the flow of the debate was in President Bush’s direction," Galston continued. "Kerry's goal was to disrupt and reverse that flow. I’m not sure he accomplished this."

BULLSHIT...Again, Shrub was like the criminal he is, being grilled. Kerry took him to task so badly that the RW nutcases are claiming he had access to the questions beforehand.

I will admit to everyone on here that the debate itself was not the trap that I thought it was. Kerry performed beautifully and punished Shrub. But this is being spun into the ground, even by CBS, who are supposed to be the only fair and balanced broadcast news service out there. "It takes a few days to see who won the debate." BULLSHIT. It was clear who won last night. This stalling and hemming and hawing that CBS is doing is designed to make people think twice about supporting Kerry if the debate made them go Kerry. What they mean is that "it takes a few days to spin a gold cup for Kerry into a gold cup for Shrub."

[brianmattis]

37. Joe and Jane Doe and Spin

This just shows the power of the right wing sound machine. I just listened to a PBS radio interview of some plain folks in Pennsylvania. I could not believe what I was hearing. Did these people see the same debate that I had watched? On the other hand, most of the polls that I have seen (which include local TV, radio, and newspaper polls that can be found on the web) show that Kerry won by an amount above the margin of error. But, they also showed that few minds were changed. Like Bush himself, very few people like to admit that they made a mistake when they voted in the last election. They tell themselves that Kerry might have won on style, but not on subtance. I wonder how many of them still think that Saddam was behind the 9/11 attack.

[MoonRiver]

38. Disgusting.

I feel like there is a dry rot eating away at my country from the inside.
:puke:

[javadu]

39. Give CBS a Break

It is hard being a news organization.

It is a tough job.

There are a lot of good people there working really hard.

I hope everyone gets the joke. :evilgrin:

[Andromeda]

40. Why can't they see that the Emperor ...

has no clothes?

This poll says to me that dim son had his rear end handed to him. Who are these "experts" who say it was a draw?

It wasn't even close.

[Terran]

41. Gotta love what this "expert" has to say:

"Anyone who declares a winner in this debate is a predictable partisan. They both did beautiful," said Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia.

:eyes: riiiiight!

[Firespirit]

42. Disgusting.

I read an op-ed, either the CBS article or something on CNN, where one of these "experts" said, and I paraphrase, that only a partisan for the candidate would call the debate for one or the other. The word used was actually "PARTISAN"! If that isn't psy ops I don't know what is. These "swing" voters don't want to be called partisans.

Funny... an awful lot of diehard repubs thought that Kerry gave * a royal ass kicking. (The Freepers were practically curled up in the fetal position crying.) And those 55-70 percent of undecideds thought the same. Most of the Repubs who voted in the polls probably did not really think that * beat Kerry. They just didn't want the result to look like 85-15 or worse... which is what it would have been.

[clevergirl]

43. After the revolution...

any journalist who called that debate a draw must be locked up in a dark room with nothing but a TV running the debate again and again and again...

[selmo7]

44. Everyday - it ain't Kansas more and more

I am also stunned, incredulous of yesterday's reporting of the results. I was happy that Kerry's win was being so tallied in quick polls and such. I felt a sigh of collective relief - at last, at last - something positive and on the upswing for Kerry in the media. But it was like scraps tossed to disarm or temporarily appease. Scraps thrown by necessity and hesitantly. With no headlines at all reporting it like it DID happen and DID impact. And what DID happen and the resulting impact was brilliant! What mass hypnosis IS going on anyway?