Wesley Clark sitting out debate on Sunday...the 3rd one of the year...

[helleborient]

Again, the only major candidate sitting out MSNBC's Brown and Black Forum on Sunday in Des Moines is Wesley Clark.

"All the candidates except for Gen. Clark participate in MSNBC's Brown and Black Forum on Sunday night from Des Moines."

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html


Still seems to be running scared of facing the other candidates.

[neuvocat]

1. He's not running in Iowa.

[helleborient]

3. Yep, Clark's not running nationally...Lieberman will be there

And he's not running in Iowa either.

[Bolo Boffin]

18. Another chance for Lieberman to bash Dean

Another chance for Clark to take the high road.

[Jack_Dawson]

63. Lieberman needs face time

Clark doesn't.

[Jack_Dawson]

67. Clark is too Presidential to waste his time

sharing the stage with Lieberman. Let the field thin out...these debates are a huge fucking waste of time if you ask me. If I was Dean I'd skip it too.

Nothing good can come out of sharing the stage with Lieberman and other lessers.

Sound elitist? Sorry.

[SahaleArm]

20. Really, has Dean been to Alaska?

The argument is absurd.

[LuminousX]

56. Too costly to go but... Alaska for Dean

http://www.alaskafordean.com/

Not that THAT means much

http://www.alaskaforclark.com/

[KittyWampus]

2. Maybe He'll Go Up Another 8-10 Points In NH & Beat Dean

[helleborient]

4. Bush and Clark...the debate avoiders (n/t)

[KittyWampus]

24. He's Done Four Already

Last one he did was awesome.

Next round of debates will hopefully have fewer participants and Clark will have more than 7 minutes air time.

[helleborient]

29. Done four...and avoided 3 in a row....hmmm...how well did he do?

Does he feel the same?

If he felt the same...that he did well...it seems he would be itching to debate again.

[lurk_no_more]

85. What happened to the dean/Kerry debate?

And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[pa28]

6. Maybe Dean should skip it too

He may be too distracted about the possibility of losing New Hampshire to perform well.

[helleborient]

16. Dean has the guts to face the attacks...why doesn't Clark?

He's the candidate of professional handlers it seems...the ones who tell him to avoid debating because it is what a true calculating politico would do.

Wesley Clark's comments of not being a real politician must be true...he's letting the real politicians handle his campaign and keep him out of debates.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

30. Oh please... Clark has kicked butt in the last several debates, has won

a couple of them. He's just concetrating on New Hampshire. Those debates are a joke and everybody knows it.

I would hardly call going on Meet the Press where he was grilled for a solid hour by one of the toughest interviewers vs. a debate where he only gets "soundbites" running away from attacks.

[returnable]

35. "He's the candidate of professional handlers."

Oh, really?

"Gina has veto power."

'Nuff said.

[helleborient]

41. Let's see this duplicity...

On one hand crow about support and advice from Clintonite career politicos....

On the other hand "I'm not a real politician"

Clear duplicity.

[returnable]

48. Duplicity?

You mean like railing against "Washington Democrats" and the party "establishment", then championing their virtues when the endorsements start rolling in? :eyes:

You mean like complaining about negative campaigning then admitting to passing out negative flyers at another candidate's campaign appearance? :eyes:

Yep, one of these candidates is duplicitous, alright...

[helleborient]

52. Dean mentioned Democrats voting against specific issues...

But you seem to want to use a broad brush.

[returnable]

54. Specific issues?

Like the IWR?

The same IWR that Harkin voted in support of? :eyes:

[windansea]

11. good one!

:evilgrin:

[BuelahWitch]

83. Harkin apologized for his mistake

unlike other Senators who shall remain nameless :eyes:

[waltisfrozen]

5. I can't blame him

His performance in the other debates has been pretty weak. Skipping these debates probably does wonders for his campaign.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

47. Didn't Clark win at least 2 debates according to our DU polls?

n/t

[Bread and Circus]

104. He has kicked ass in some and stunk in some...

overall, though his best venue is town halls...

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. dupe

[helleborient]

10. Yep, we know, he avoids the Midwest and only counts on NH and South

I want a President who takes the ENTIRE country seriously.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Of course you do. n/t

[Renew Deal]

21. Midwest?

He is skipping 1 state. Just 1. Get over it.

[helleborient]

33. Where has he been in the Midwest? Dean is campaigning in MI and WI

And has been to Chicago multiple times, too.

Edwards has been here in central Illinois as well.

Wesley Clark? Nope. Nada.

[Renew Deal]

51. Clark has been to MI, MO, WI, and Chicago several times

Oh, did I forget ND, MN, and TN? I guess I didn't

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. I live in Illinois

and met Clark at a fundraiser in Chicago. He's been here many times. This argument over a debate in Iowa is stoooopid. Clark is not runing in Iowa. Clark is not running in Iowa. Clark is not running in Iowa. Please, repeat that to yourself over end over and over. Maybe it will sink in.

Wes Clark was on the debate team at West Point. He's not AFRAID to debate. :eyes:

[returnable]

87. You don't know what you're talking about...

"Nope. Nada."

I've personally attended two Clark appearances here in Illinois. And he's been to Wisconsin a couple of times (in fact, he'll be there tomorrow in Superior. The first candidate to visit the south shore of the Badger State, actually).

Off the top of my head, I also know he's been to North Dakota and Minnesota.

So I suggest you educate yourself before circulating untruths about other candidates.

Otherwise, you're doing your own candidate a tremendous disservice :hi:

[Tweed]

97. I live in Chicago

Wesley Clark has been to visit here and a great deal of people in Chicago have woken up to the Clark train.

[kayleybeth]

116. helleborient- PLEASE ANSWER THIS

you said:

I want a President who takes the ENTIRE country seriously

Is DC not part of the country?

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[Clark4Prez]

119. Really what about Washington DC Dean skipped debate there

Dean skipped the Debate today in DC, I guess he's running scared!

You would think the supporters of the frontrunner would have better arguements than this. Oh, well, a boy can dream.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

120. Haven't seen him in Florida much. Clark's been here several times...

n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. He needs to

stay in NH and speak to the people who will be voting for him. He said that should he win the nomination, Iowa will be the FIRST state he campaigns in, but for now, he needs to campaign in NH. By the poll results, it's paying off.

[wndycty]

9. Will Dean's advisors let him talk. . .Clark is not the one running scared

:kick:

[helleborient]

14. So if Clark's the nominee...we get no debates?

Perhaps a gentleman's agreement between Clark and Bush and just TV ads and media talking heads...but no direct debates?

[wndycty]

17. Clark is running hard to win New Hampshire. . .

. . .he is not avoiding the debate. Also he is not running in Iowa. Go ahead crow all you want. . .what matters most is who secures the nomination, not who goes to the debate. Besides the Chicago Tribune felt that Clark benefitted the most last week by skipping the debate.

[Bolo Boffin]

25. This is silly.

Clark's not running in Iowa. He's not in the Iowa debates.

When Clark gets the nomination, he will be at the national debates. He'll cut a fine figure next to the Vietnam-avoiding, AWOL Bush.

You can't honestly believe the spin you're spreading.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

49. It's obvious they have nothing else to attack him on....

n/t

[returnable]

28. Oh, please...

When Clark wins the nomination, we can talk about debates with Bush, OK? :hi:

Clark has already participated in a slew of these debates. He hasn't "avoided" anything.

He'd rather spend his time campaigning in a state where he's actually competing.

Judging by the latest tracking poll numbers, it's been a wise strategy.

[wndycty]

37. Not to mention. . .

. . .he will let Gephardt and Kerry beat up Dean for the alleged fraud in Iowa.

[Lobo_13]

12. He seems to be hell bent

on not winning the nomination.

[Renew Deal]

19. He's doing a bad job of

losing the nomination so far. :eyes:

[LoneStarLiberal]

13. "...Lieberman Will Be There"

OK.

Why?

He's not running in the Iowa Caucus. He shouldn't be there. Just like Clark shouldn't be there. These debates are first and foremost for Iowa Caucus participants, although there is a national audience.

What's Lieberman going to do? Attack Dean some more? Probably. Take up valuable time when Iowans could be hearing more from the candidates they will vote for in the caucuses? Every time he speaks.

Moving on...

[neverforget]

22. Why do you care? It's more face time for your candidate, isn't it?

But thanks for your concern though

[slinkerwink]

23. Lieberman will be there, isn't competing in Iowa, but wants media focus

so why isn't Clark doing the same?

[wndycty]

27. Is Dean allowed to speak to the media yet?

:kick:

[slinkerwink]

44. well, he was just on CNN right now---looks like you missed it

[returnable]

31. And exactly how would you rate...

...Joe's campaign strategy so far? :shrug:

Methinks the Clark campaign knows what it's doing.

[jmaier]

32. I don't know Slinkerwink

but it's pretty obvious that Clark and his campaign team are no dummies. They are running a very tightly focused campaign. I suspect that 1) they aren't competing in Iowa so they have no business crowding that stage and 2) he's in the trenches in NH and with forays off to other states and that strategy is working fine at the moment.

But, who knows. Maybe he's just really, really scared of these other guys. LOL




Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[Bolo Boffin]

38. Lieberman wants to bash Dean

Isn't that obvious by now? What other reason could there be for attending a debate in a state you aren't running in?

Media focus? Have you seen the ratings of these debates? Clark got four times the ratings at Meet the Press last Sunday. That lets him skip four Iowa debates by my count, and if you include actual speaking time, he's got permission to skip five or six.

This is silly.

[in_cog_ni_to]

66. That's the only reason

Lieberman goes to the debates....to bash the other candidates. I suspect it will be piled high on Dean during this one by Kerry and Gep too. :)

[jmaier]

26. It's the right decision

Since Wes Clark isn't running in Iowa then he shouldn't take up air time from the candidates who are attempting a last effort to reach the caucuses voters. By rights, Sen. Lieberman should do the same thing.

[SahaleArm]

36. Lieberman is going to Iowa to attack Dean nothing else - Fine by me n/t

[helleborient]

40. Yep, Clark skips out where you genuinely have to organize and connect

He's the ultimate last-ditch candidate - no governing job experience and wants to steal the nomination from those who have taken the WHOLE process seriously.

I'm sorry - I seriously question how honorable it is to ditch parts of the process - and decide that 3 months before the first contest takes place.

[SahaleArm]

43. I want to see Dean and Clark in a 2-3 person debate...

Soon enough that will happen; right now the 7-9 people debates are awful.

[returnable]

71. Talk about duplicitous...

...Dean skipped "a part of the process" today.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

I guess he was just scared of facing the tough questions, right? :eyes:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

122. That's what he's doing in New Hampshire. Iowa= state that sucks the

life and money out of candidates.

[Rowdyboy]

34. Absolutely terrified

n/t

"George Bush, I believe, in his soul, is a moderate"....Howard Dean

[Langis]

138. That was 3 years ago

I am sure a lot of people felt that way.

[tigerbeat]

39. makes sense

i'm a dean supporter, but i gotta say that staying out of the debates has worked for the good general in the last two weeks. i don't really blame him for continuing this strategy.

clark has run a good campaign lately and i congratulate his supporters on it.

[SahaleArm]

42. I think the strategy is to gain in NH and let the field narrow.

A debate with 4-5 candidates is better than one with 8-9; and there's one right before South Carolina.

[tigerbeat]

53. don't think it'll winnow that much.

at the most gephardt will crash and burn after IA/NH. but i think everyone else is in until after feb.3, so i still think the SC debate will have the same faces.

but, i don't think clark can avoid anymore debates without it being an issue. he can claim "i'm not competing in IA" for these last three. after the caucus, it's a harder sell, IMO.

[SahaleArm]

61. He'll be attending the rest since they are in states that matter...

Why are there 3 debates in a row in Iowa? Really too much emphasis in a state that has an overblown sense of entitlement, so I agree with Dean ;)

[tigerbeat]

70. beats me....

...personally i like lots and lots of debates. if for no other reason it keeps criticism of the chimp in the news.

[helleborient]

45. Once again the Clark supporter duplicity...bash Bush if he avoids debates

But Wesley Clark avoiding them is "good sense"

Yeah, I get it.

It's only good if it's good for Wesley Clark. Everyone else has to play by different rules.

[wndycty]

57. This is not a one on one debate. . .

. . .and its in a state he is not running in. The is a low impact debate.

[returnable]

60. Don't waste your time...

...this Dean supporter can't see the difference between those two scenarios.

Is there a cure for myopia? :hi:

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. an optometrist, maybe?

:shrug:

[_NorCal_D_]

81. You should be thanking Clark.

Dean will get more air-time with only 8 candidates attending. :evilgrin:

[Cheswick2.0]

46. why the hell won't he debate?

I have my own opinions of him and they aren't very favorable. However I would like to see him in a debate. I'd like to be reasured that if he does get on the ticket I don't have to stay home that day.

[kayleybeth]

64. Why didn't Dean participate in the DC debate today?

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[returnable]

78. He must've been running scared...

...that can be the only explanation for skipping out on such a vital part of the democratic process :hi:

[democratreformed]

89. What was that other one Dean missed?

It was somewhere in the south and Carol was stuck in Arizona (?). Dennis and Al had to leave early and Clark had the whole thing to himself for quite some time.

[bain_sidhe]

50. Good move, strategically, imho

Not only for the obvious reason, that he's not running in Iowa, so his time is better spent in NH, but also because I think it will help Kerry, because it gives Kerry the "veteran/foreign policy" spotlight to himself. Kerry's been moving up there, and if Kerry passes Gephardt and takes second, THAT will be story coming out of Iowa. It'll suck a lot of the oxygen out of the Dean coverage going into New Hampshire.

IMHO, of course.

**edited 'cause I forgot a point**

[kayleybeth]

58. Be very careful where you tread...

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[flaminbats]

59. We need a new DNC rule for debate participation...

every time a candidate misses a Presidential debate, leave an empty podium on the stage with a goofy cardboard cutout of the missing candidate. The candidates at the end will evenly split the nonparticipant's time, adding to their time available for answering questions and closing remarks.

At the end, candidates will have the option of disposing of the cutout in any way they can agree on! :spank:

[MIMStigator]

62. so he won't get his 5 minutes to spout sound bites with 8 other people

big deal

[returnable]

68. Quick!

What was the most memorable moment of the last debate?

tick

tock

time's up.

The only thing that got any play here was DK holding up a pie chart, and most of that discussion was about the absurdity of using a visual in a radio debate. (Never mind that fact that many Dean supporters here chose to ignore the substance of what DK was trying to illustrate.)

In other words, I think Clark, and the democratic process, will somehow survive him skipping yet another one of these joint press conferences. :hi:

[Rowdyboy]

65. We do need new rules for candidate debates....

Like random drawings so two or three candidates can debate at a time, carefully chosen real journalists to ask issue/policy oriented questions (not process questions about polls etc), an end to "gotcha" questions and enough time to answer so that candidates can't possibly respond in soundbites.

[flaminbats]

74. I prefer debates which focus on the details of a single issue.

We need a series of debates on education, healthcare reform, national security, taxes, the environment, the new economy and jobs, regulation of commerce and trade, and the state of democracy.

This series of hour-long townhall meetings on narrowly focused subject matters will force the candidates to give us more than nice soundbites, while ending the need to exclude any candidate from any of the debates.

[Rowdyboy]

113. I could see that

One debate on taxes, one on foreign policy, one on security

[in_cog_ni_to]

72. I know what

the fear is here. The Dean supporters are afraid that Wes is going to get as much attention as he did last week. They don't want Clark in NH by himself, winning more votes. Why else would they care?

[_NorCal_D_]

77. Indeed

Clark will have New Hampshire all to himself! :evilgrin:

[Jack_Dawson]

79. Exactly Incog - last debate Clark "avoided" he gained 8 points

Doesn't take a 4-star General. He'll debate when it matters. An Iowa debate matters not for the General. Oh that's right, skipping Iowa was a "huge mistake" LOL

[democratreformed]

73. I guess all the other candidates where then scared to debate Carol, Dennis

and Al today on C-SPAN, right?

[kayleybeth]

75. helleborient... care to answer?

Why didn't Dean participate in the DC debate today?

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[artr2]

76. Just comes down to the same thing all the time

If a clarkie slams Dean it's political discourse

If a Deanie slams Clark it's a sliming attack that couldn't possibly be true.

I've seen it too many times, for you to deny it

[kayleybeth]

82. Before you accuse Clark supporters of double standards

care to answer why Dean didn't participate in the DC debates today?

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[Fleshdancer]

80. I know he's not competing in Iowa, but I wish he would still debate

I like the guy and I want to hear what he has to say. He did well in the last debate he was in and these debates get national exposure, I don't know why he chooses to opt out. :shrug:

[w13rd0]

84. Clark is running on the Schwarzennegar strategy...

...empty platidudes, avoid debates, avoid questions, no record of domestic or political accomplishment...

Hey, it worked for Arnold.

[kayleybeth]

86. w13rd0 do you care to speculate

why Dean didn't participate in the Washington DC debate today?

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[returnable]

88. I see they keep avoiding your question...

...Gee, I wonder why? :hi:

[kayleybeth]

94. LOL!

I'll just keep asking anyway. I'm really curious how they're going to square this with what's been said about Clark earlier in the thread.

[returnable]

96. I'm curious, too...

...since Dean's supposedly "competing" in DC.

[kayleybeth]

101. Yeah

I think they're just hoping the thread will fall off the front page.

:kick:

Any Dean supporters care to address this?

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[drfemoe]

90. It's the Arnold Play Book of American Politics

play-acting ..

[returnable]

92. A book Dean must be reading...

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

I guess Dean is just play-acting, huh? Or is it OK for Dean to pick'n'choose which debates he attends, but not OK for Clark?

Hypocrisy. Look it up.

[KaraokeKarlton]

91. Seems like Clark is a bit of a chicken-shit

Why is he afraid of facing the other candidates?

[returnable]

93. Is Dean chicken-shit?

He was sure running scared from DK, CMB, and AS today:

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1


Bawk! Bawk! Bawk :hi:

[kayleybeth]

98. LMAO!

:kick:

Any Dean supporters care to address this?

[returnable]

99. It appears we may be waiting for awhile...

...perhaps they have to run it by Gina first :hi:

:kick:

[KaraokeKarlton]

135. Nope, he was busy getting Harkin's endorsement today

You know Harkin, right? He's Iowa's MOST beloved Democrat. You're familiar with Iowa aren't you? Oh, gee, wait, I forgot! Maybe you aren't familiar with Iowa since your candidate finds Iowa "insignificant" and isn't even campaigning there. Clark isn't going to win the nomination and he's not even going to be chosen as VP. If he's lucky he might be considered for Secretary of Defense, but I'm sure there's others more qualified for that job too!

kiss kiss!

[returnable]

137. Oh, I see...

...it's OK for Dean to pick'n'choose which debates he attends based on their relative importance to his campaign, and not OK for other candidates. Gotcha.

Love the double standard. Thanks! :hi:

"Clark isn't going to win the nomination and he's not even going to be chosen as VP. If he's lucky he might be considered for Secretary of Defense, but I'm sure there's others more qualified for that job too!"

Let's see, first you call Clark a chicken-shit in this thread (unprovoked, I might add), then you attack his qualifications to serve.

I'll remember this next time I see you squawking about the level of discourse on this board. Kiss kiss, indeed :eyes:

[dogman]

139. A cockroach?

A panderer to special interest? Catering to the extremists? Ignoring the centrists? Oh yes that was before. What will it be tomorrow?

[Hep]

95. I don't have a problem with it.

I stopped watching them, and most people never started, so I wonder what the point is.

[in_cog_ni_to]

100. Let's kick this again

and see if a Dean supporter would like to tell us why Dean didn't participate in the DC debate with Sharpton, CMB and Kucinich today. :shrug: Is he afraid? Is he running from a debate? Whaaaaaat?
Still waiting for an anwer.

[kayleybeth]

102. And another kick

Any Dean supporter out there who would like to address this:

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[returnable]

105. We really need an HTML code...

...for the sound of crickets chirping :hi:

:kick:

[drfemoe]

106. I would guess because

he's campaigning in states that are having primaries. He can address DC voter's rights at the appropriate time. What is the General gonna do about it? Send him to gitmo for some re-education?

[returnable]

109. DC doesn't have a primary?

That'd be news to Skinner, who owns this site. He plans on voting in it.

But I guess it's OK for Dean to pick'n'choose which debates he attends based on their relative importance to his campaign, and not OK for other candidates. Gotcha.

Hypocrisy. Look it up.

[Hep]

118. Skinner knows they don't have a primary

He referred to it in his post. It's non binding. Most candidates aren't even on the ballot. It's not a big deal.

You guys are responding in the worst possible way. The correct answer is that Clark's missing the debate is JUST NOT A BIG DEAL. It's up to him to go or not go to a debate. It's a CHOICE. He has done his fair share of debates by my standards, as has everyone else. I don't even watch the damn things anymore, because frankly, I'm skeptical of their value. I hate them, and I have a far higher tolerance for boring shit than your average american does. THIS IS NOT A BIG DEAL. And whether or not you agree about it's importance is a MATTER OF OPINION. And whether or not it will benefit the candidate HAS YET TO BE SEEN.

Someone copy and paste this into a post so I know you get it!

[kayleybeth]

124. Ding ding ding ding!

Good answer!!

It's a shame that some of your fellow Dean supporters could not come forward and admit this.

Thank you Hep!

[Hep]

130. To be fair

If you wanted Dean supporters to concede this point, calling them out about Dean missing debates was a bad way to motivate them.

[returnable]

132. For me...

...getting Dean supporters in general to concede this point wasn't the issue. I know plenty of ya realize how ridiculous it is.

But some don't. I wanted those "specific" Dean supporters to address this discrepency.

But since DU has rules about calling out individual posters, we just have to play the waiting game. They know who they are - their posts are all over this thread.

And they haven't been around in awhile. Hmmmmm... :hi:

[Hep]

133. Yeah

If we could round up that crowd and give them their own forum, life would rock.

[returnable]

127. Hey, I'm with you...

...I agree that these debates aren't a "big deal."

I tried arguing that point repeatedly with several folks here, who repeatedly said Clark was "running scared" and a "chicken-shit" and subverting the democratic process.

I'm still waiting for one of those posters to reconcile Dean's no-show in DC.

Do I care he wasn't there? No. But I'm on record as saying these debates aren't all that important.

Other folks in this thread can't make that claim. Their silence now is quite telling.

"THIS IS NOT A BIG DEAL. And whether or not you agree about it's importance is a MATTER OF OPINION."

Amen, brother :toast:

As for DC, it IS still a primary, even if it's non-binding.

[Hep]

131. It's OK to think that's it's a big deal

but it's becoming clear to me that this is human nature. Not necessarily a good aspect of it!

They're certainly not going to come out now and give you the satisfaction. Not that this phenomenon is candidate-specific either.

[returnable]

134. Definitely not candidate-specific...

...I'm with ya on that.

[drfemoe]

126. DC Primary

look it up.

[returnable]

129. So you admit...

...it's OK for Dean to pick'n'choose which debates he attends based on their relative importance to his campaign, and not OK for other candidates. Gotcha.

Love the double standard. Thanks :hi:

[kayleybeth]

107. Still Waiting

Any Dean supporters care to explain why Dean didn't participate in the DC debates today?

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[Hep]

115. How about leading by example?

If you want sensible response from a Dean suppoerter, read mine. It's short and easy to understand!

Notice how I can actually defend someone I don't support! Notice how I can do it without making arguments that wouldn't fly in the schoolyard. It's on record!

[kayleybeth]

123. I appreciate that Hep

But I'd like to hear from the ones who chimed in and said Clark was cowardly, etc. for missing the Iowa debates. As usual they are strangely silent when it comes to light that their candidate is "guilty" of the same or similar "crime" as Clark.

I frankly couldn't care less why Dean missed the DC debate. I'm sure he had his reasons, just as Clark had his reasons for skipping the Iowa debates. I'm just curious how they square this with what they've said about Clark repeatedly in this thread.

I do appreciate your response, however, and I pretty much share your sentiments about the debates being worthless at this point in the game.

[Hep]

125. I understand where you're coming from, but

Those people are wrong. Flat out. That's all you need. You only need to explain why they are wrong.

There are countless childhood analogies for the "he does it too" or "he did it first" arguments. I don't need to conjure any up for you. You're fine to point it out. It's perfectly fair. I don't have a problem with that. But it's not a salient argument.

I don't want to sound accusatory or bitter, I just want to point that out.

[Bread and Circus]

103. You know, seeing as how he is not running in Iowa, maybe it's a good thing

Why steel the limelight from others? Are you really concerned
about Clark or are you just trying to stir sh#! about him?

[Capn Sunshine]

108. STRATEGIC WITHDRAWAL

AKA full retreat

This is NOT how to build momentum.

[kayleybeth]

110. Capn Sunshine- care to speculate?

Why did Dean skip the debate in Iowa today? FULL RETREAT?

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[returnable]

111. Where was Dean at the DC debate?

Guess he was in full retreat, eh? :eyes:

[kayleybeth]

114. C'mon Dean supporters...

Why did Dean miss the debates in DC today?

WASHINGTON - Howard Dean (news - web sites ) got the first question of Friday's radio debate. His answer was a second of silence, followed by muffled laughter and scattered applause. That's because the man who wasn't there couldn't answer why he wasn't there.

<snip>

"Governor Dean, if you cared so much about D.C. and you were so committed to the voting rights of the residents of the District of Columbia to have representation in the U.S. Congress, why aren't you here today?" asked Mark Plotkin of WTOP Radio, which broadcast the debate live.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040109/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_1

[Padraig18]

117. He was in Iowa...

... getting ready to accept Tom Harkin's endorsement. Eat your heart out. :evilgrin:

[returnable]

128. Touche!

:toast:

[Hep]

121. Check out my posts on the subject

and stop calling people out like a professional wrestler, please. We're smarter than that.

[kayleybeth]

136. Professional wrestler? LOL!

I was asking a legitimate question, Hep. I was genuinely interested in hearing from some of the folks who had been criticizing Clark. They didn't have an answer, so there's my answer.

Thanks for answering on their behalf.

[DancingBear]

112. Is it something in the water?

1) Clark is not running in Iowa - try and remember this
2) For every debate he misses in Iowa, his poll numbers go up in NH - try and remember this
3) He gets one on one time with thousands of NH voters vs. 30 second bites in Iowa - try and remember this
4) Do you HONESTLY think that Wes Clark is afraid of ANY candidate - especially Dean?
5) If you answered yes to "4", Ron Popeil is on hold - line 1 - something about wanting your credit card number