Has the Harkin Endorsement swayed you in support of your candidate?

[TrueAmerican]

[quinnox]

1. No

I still support Kerry, but I do recognize this is a major boost for Dean campaign in Iowa.

[joeybee12]

2. What did I miss--who did he support? And no, it wouldn't change my

position.

[CWebster]

4. Dean.

;-)

[Padraig18]

6. He endorsed Gov. Dean n/t

[Padraig18]

Nope.

I still support Dean.:)

[cally]

3. Come on,

it won't sway most of us living in other states, but it sure means a lot in Iowa. It's a very important endorsement for Dean. I think it may ensure his victory there and allow him to spend more time in NH. Very important!

[deminflorida]

20. I don't think so....the media has decided to smash him in Iowa..

those tapes were damning. The recent cheating tactics that are making the news, are being broadcast into every house in America..then there's the scathing NewsWeek and Time articles that will be on every grocery store shelf in America early next week,

And to top that off the major polls are due I think to come out on the 12th...look for a huge drop nationally in the polls for Dean.

Nope he'll be bleeding all the way thru to South Carolina. Gephardt will still make it very close for him in Iowa, Harkin was important for Kerry, and the endorsement going to Dean probably guarantees 2nd to Clark in N.H. if he doesn't win that state outright now.

If Gephardt loses look for Missouri to be the big play by Clark on Feb. 3rd.

[bowens43]

5. I think most here are die hard poltical junkies, not easily swayed.

The real question is will it sway any fence sitters in the general population?

[Hep]

8. He's trying to prove a point.

Trying desperately to believe that this doesn't matter. But the fact that he has to ask the question means that has already mattered in his mind.

[youngred]

10. sure it does

:eyes:

[Hep]

14. You rolling your eyes at him or me?

n/t

[youngred]

16. I replied to you so......

endorsements shouldn't mean anything and the question was valid.

[Hep]

23. Wrongo.

To everyone who said, "Good for Dean" or "Congrats" and left it at that, it didn't matter. To anyone who feels the need to prove to themselves it didn't matter, it DOES matter. Pretty simple really.

Endorsements shouldn't mean anything, but they do, and you can't change that. I mean, I'm sure this whole conversation would be going differently had it been MADONNA who endorsed Dean, as we couldn't talk about that ENOUGH yesterday.

[youngred]

26. wrongo to me or yourself?

who's trying to "prove to themselves" that it doesn't matter. That's pure speculation on motive on your part...and fairly shoddy speculation at that. Did you *Possibly* think that the question might be asked to...I don't know...see if it changed anything? No that would be too simple for you. It wouldn't exactly matter to a Clark supporter what happens in Iowa now would it?

as for who madonna endorses...who fucking cares

[Hep]

27. Keep up! You can do it!

The OP is trying to convince himself that it doesn't matter. Come on, try to keep up with the conversation.

No, I know the question wasn't asked to see if it changed evrything, and I can tell you that most of the people who are voting YES are only doing so in mockery. It's obvious that Harkin's endorsement will do nothing more than Gore and Bradley's endorsements did for DU'ers, NOTHING.

God it's so clear, so simple, I'm amazed that you haven't gotten it.

[youngred]

29. You're right it is simple

I'm surprised you are putting this much thought into it.

You can assure me of what those anonymous internet voters really feel?

Wow you seem to know everything about everything I should obviously just bow to your patently superior intellect and omniscence.

sod off mate :hi:

[Hep]

32. I haven't had to devote a holw lot of thought to it

nor do I have to devote much thought to replying. Some things are easier than others.

I can assure you of what those internet voters really feel. I can tell you that more than one of the people who voted yes in that poll are Dean supporters who still support Dean. It's not a very tough conclusion to draw.

Thank you for bowing to my superior intellect, if there's anything else you'd like to know about anything, just ask. :)

[youngred]

34. see my original response to you

:eyes:

[Hep]

41. I love engaging in discourse

with people who let SMILEYS speak for them.

[youngred]

42. sorry

was trying to find something you'd understand...perhaps I overestimated

[Hep]

43. Yeah, OK

I might just have to leave and come back after CURFEW.

:) We're so going to get in trouble for this, by the way.

[youngred]

45. oo Age cracks! originality at its best

not unless someone alerts on us O8)

[Hep]

47. Originality

Yeah, I can't come up with anything original like :eyes: !

OK, I have to do work at some point.

[youngred]

49. didn't say that was

but it certainly beats a crack about my age.

the point of all of this is that this thread was NOT an attempt to slam on Dean, howevermuch you might like to think so.

[Hep]

51. I never said it was an attempt to slam on Dean

I said it was an attempt of the OP to convince himself that it didn't matter. But it mattered enough to start a poll about it. A poll the results of which I knew in advance, give or take a vote here and there. I see no slam of Dean here.

[youngred]

52. again, do you know their psyche

and purpose for posting? no you don't, and yes we knew the poll's result in advance, and we also know the polls about who's leading in Iowa...so why not just not hold the caucases since we obviously know what's going to happen

[Hep]

54. Empathy

Sometimes it's a little more obvious than others, no? Some people are more transparent than others some of the time. In this case, it wasn't hard.

What's hard is figuring out how the caucuses will turn out. I won't venture a guess there. I don't know how you get from me talking about TA's motives to canceling the caucus, though. And you must be wearing your tin foil hat, because I can't figure out for the life of me that logic.

[KC21304]

37. Where did you get your Phd in psychiatry or psychology ?

Or are you just a plain old mind reader ?

[Hep]

39. I'm empathic

It's a blessing and a curse.

I do notice though that NO ONE has actually produced anything resembling an argument against what I've said. Only these one liners and thinly veiled insults.

[youngred]

44. I did actually

which you dismissed as stupidity. When you present a logical argument maybe we can talk again...and you yourself seem to rely heavily on "these one liners and thinly veiled insults"

[Hep]

48. Look

I saw your argument, and it wasn't stupid. But I know that endorsements don't matter a bit here. They don't sway people here. They haven't up to this point in any significant way. Whether it's madonna or Harkin or the prince of persia, people here don't care. I am SURE it makes a difference in the real world.

But does anyone who has been posting here for the past three months really have to ask if Harkin's endorsement makes a difference?

[youngred]

50. it will to some people

and there are always newbies who join, as well undecided's (believe it or not). I know many DUers who don't have a candidate yet and some of them may or may not like Harkin enough to switch it. Naive question sure...slam on Dean...not at all

[Hep]

55. Never said it was a slam

And I'll repeat that as many times as I am forced to.

[OKNancy]

18. Why would a Clark supporter care?

It's good for us....gets rid of Gephardt.

[Hep]

24. I don't know, why?

I'm not trying to say why a Clark supporter would care, as that's a mystery to me as well. It just happens to be the case.

It's just funny how divided all of our campaigns are. Yesterday, certain Clark supporters couldn't talk enough about Madonna's endorsement. Today, Harkin's endorsement doesn't matter. I'd love to know whassup widdat?

[mmonk]

7. No

endorsements don't sway me. It's a good one for the Dean campaign though, and probably a tough one especially for the Gep campaign.

[joeybee12]

13. Agree with that, because most polls show it tight between Dean and Dicky

in Iowa. Maybe Tom knows something more--I tend to think most politicians don't go out on a limb unless they are sure their "endorsement" means something and they are backing whom they really believe will win. He must see which way the wind is blowing in Iowa.

[youngred]

9. if you like a candidate enough to cast your vote for them

why should it matter who else supports them?

endorsements shouldn't matter for shite

[LuminousX]

11. It shouldn't sway anyone who already backs a candidate

If someone has already chosen a candidate, all this means is 'shucks, Harkin didn't endorse the right guy.' At least that was my reaction when Hart endorsed Kerry. It didn't make me change my opinion, even though I think the world of Hart.

The same is true for Harkin. Even though I think he is definitely one of the good guys, if he did endorse Kerry over Dean, I wouldn't have altered my opinion of Dean.

All the endorsements do is help those who haven't decided focus on a potential candidate. Well, that and gives the candidate some organizational assistance. Harkin's campaign machinery will be churning for Dean during the caucus and that can't be discounted.

[helleborient]

12. My expectation is it solidifies many Iowans leaning Dean's way or wavering

They trust Harkin and will firmly be in Dean's camp now.

I also wonder if some of Gephardt's supporters will stay home now...seeing it as a lost cause.

[youngred]

21. seeing it as a lost cause?

well Dean is doing so well now, why don't all the other candidates just stay home because they can't possibly win over the mighty Dr.

the supporters are supporterss because they believe in a candidate, but I, for one, refuse to give over all support because the media and polls say that Dr. Dean is the only one who can get the nod before a single ballot has been cast on the issue.

[helleborient]

64. Some value the words of government leaders...

Would you attack Iowans for valuing the words of their own elected Senator?

[youngred]

69. I didn't

what I said was why would it automatically be a "lost cause" for gephardt supporters.

Dean hasn't won yet, but some are willing to hand him the keys to the white house before a single vote has been cast.

[Rowdyboy]

15. Certainly helps him in Iowa

Can't see how it would help a lot anywhere else though.

[helleborient]

22. Harkin is well respected throughout the Midwest...

So I would expect Sen. Harkin's endorsement will help some in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois.

Now we just need to work on Feingold and Durbin endorsements!!

[Rowdyboy]

30. Do you really think endorsements mean all that much any more?

I know, its sour grapes, but seriously, do they still matter as much? Party identification is so low these days and Democratic party machinery has fallen into such disrepair that I really question the ultimate value of endorsements.

That being said, would I turn one down? HELL NO! Would I kill to get the endorsements Dean has received? Yeah, I would, if for nothing else to keep the campaign going forward and positive publicity.

I respect Harkin tremendously-it was not meant as a dig at him. Its just interesting to see how politics is evolving from decade to decade.

[helleborient]

38. Paul Simon's endorsement before he passed away was very meaningful

In Illinois.

I can't speak for elsewhere...but Sen. Simon was exceptionally well respected here and across the country. He was respected specifically for his honesty and fair play...that's why both Republicans and Democrats spoke at his memorial service.

I do believe some endorsements carry a great deal of emotional impact.

I would expect Dolores Huerta and Richard Chavez endorsing Dean in California had strong impact as well...they are true heroes of the Hispanic community, labor movement, and human rights movement in this country.

[bearfartinthewoods]

62. at the very least, they monopolize the news cycle

fake news....but it works

[helleborient]

65. The support of our elected Democratic leaders is fake news? How sad

If you don't listen to them...that is very sad. Why elect them in the first place?

[iowapeacechief]

60. It matters tremendously...

...if Harkin is the difference between Dean falling apart in Iowa or getting a major bounce out of here. That will matter everywhere.

This is huge for Dean and a disappointment for the others, however they spin it.

[Rowdyboy]

63. That is a VERY critical point

Harkin stopped the hemorrhaging in Iowa and Dean certainly benefited from that.

[Clark4Prez]

17. For supporters its good news

The Dean team this has been a tough week (I know how that is, we had a few of those too, like the week we pulled 7% in a poll), this is a boost for them.

I think that some of the undecideds will move to Dean because of this. I think it was a given that he will win Iowa, but, now it should be in the bag. It hurts Gep and Kerry, but only time will tell.

All part of the primary rollercoaster I guess, it's gonna be one heck of a ride.

[diamondsoul]

19. I think I agree with the concensus

you're not going to find people here who are swayed by this stuff. Most of us here are pretty informed and settled on our choices for various reasons. Endorsements are a reason to celebrate for our guy or be secretly ticked for them. LOL

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. no but it has changed my opinion of him

i thought the days of den "king makers' was behind us.

guess not....they just dpn't trust us to make the right choice i guess.

well, next time we can save a shitload of money and skip all this messy voting stuff.
:puke:

[tedoll78]

33. Help me out here..

exactly how did Harkin deny Iowans the right to vote? Draw me a diagram, please. Geez..

[bearfartinthewoods]

53. not iowans...they still get to

and folks in NH but not me and not any one who's voting after the first week in feb. big name endorsements don't belong this early in the process. they front load the process. i'm not sure they should happen at all until the nominee is picked.

[Ficus]

61. this early

10 days before we caucus?

[Ficus]

35. TH is no king maker

He waited until 10 DAYS before the caucuses to endorse. I don't support Dean, but Harkin is not trying to be a "king maker." As with Gore, this just irks people who hate Dean...endorsements don't mean jack $hit, no matter who does them.

[bearfartinthewoods]

58. coincidentally, the same day as dean is stumbling, trying to figure

a way to undo the insult of the iowa tape....
yeah...pure coincedence.

i wonder, if he had endorsec Kerry or geph, what would happen to their polls numbers?

[Ficus]

59. nobody likes to campaign in Iowa

I've heard Kerry say similar comments. People here understand that I think.

The Harkin bashers here don't really know much about him when they use words like "kingmaker" and such. I suspect that many are just mad their guy didn't get the endorsement, or just hate Dean.

I think most people who follow IA politics have seen this as inevetable as of late. If this came tomorrow, you'd say the same thing.

If you truly think this cancels out your vote for some reason, perhaps you need to find a different party where your vote isn't canceled out I guess.

[helleborient]

40. So...basically you don't respect the opinions of anyone else...

Just keep to yourself and decide things...

In real communities...the opinions of others do have impact, including the opinions of community leaders.

Your comment is so very sad.

[Cheswick2.0]

66. If Clinton endorsed him would you hate him too?

How about your candidate, when he drops out and endorses Dean will you hate him too?

[hlthe2b]

28. No, but I'm just waiting....

to hear who my dog is endorsing. That will definitely cinch it up for me! :eyes:

Sorry, but the sniping back and forth for one candidate versus another, who is the more important endorsement, etc., etc. is sending me over the edge. No offense to your poll. It is a valid question.

[WillyT]

31. Yeah, I Keep Swayin, But It's Always To The Left !!!

:bounce::evilgrin::bounce:

[davsand]

36. Dean will pick up the undecided voters--maybe 5%

That is my prediction about the impact of the endorsement's impact. If they were firm on any one candidate before I doubt it will have any impact. IT may change a few of the soft support folks--but not enough to register much more than 2-3% points.

Interesting twist after yesterday's bad news day for Dean. Very fortunate for his campaign. Congrats to you folks working for Dean!

Laura

[w4rma]

46. Nope. I still support Gov. Dean. (n/t)

[worldgonekrazy]

56. It just gave me one more reason to support Dean

Harkin is a great Senator. He has done a lot for the people of Iowa and the United States.

I remember watching him give a speech to the Senate on CSPAN before the beginning of the Iraq War. He likened the endeavor to Vietnam and said that we would be there "for a long time." He was obviously right.

[Suziq]

57. I Love Tom Harkin . . . .

but I love Wes Clark even more!

:hippie:

[Adjoran]

67. No, I'm still undecided

I don't know anyone who makes up their mind on a candidate on the basis of an endorsement. If anyone does, I think they are being lazy and not exercising their right to vote with due diligence.

[MercutioATC]

68. Nope, I still support Dean(it's great to have Harkin's endorsement though)

.

[quaker bill]

70. No still a Dean supporter

[ClarkGraham2004]

71. It's weird, it made me donate $100 to Clark.

hmm?


www.clark04.com