Why are DU'ers so thin skinned about K/E?

[SeekingTruth]

What is it about so many thin skinned DU'ers out there? It seems like every time someone offers constructive criticism or a critique of K/E it is time for the throwing of insults or worse.

For crying out loud - the damn repuglicans control all three branches of elective government, they are stacking the courts against us and when people offer insight in how to fight better and smarter it's "you smell like a freeper" and other stuff like that.

This is what I expected from a conservative site.....

(Now I guess I should get ready for the "well, why don't you go there, freeper.")

[Stephanie]

1. Perhaps you could provide an example

So we can judge for ourselves.

[HFishbine]

5. Yes, an example.

Please.

[ThomCat]

11. I was accused of being

"a water carrier" for the republicans for stating that I don't think Kerry is as progressive as we would like.

So I can personally testify that there are people at DU getting WAY to knee-jerky in support of Kerry.

[Zorra]

64. I guess that the fact democracy is dead in America if Kerry is not elected

makes me wonder why anyone would post anything negative at all at this point.

So, with the election about 40 days away, I figure anytime someone posts frivolously and negatively about Kerry there's about a 90 - 95% chance that they are a freeper.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

114. I was told to post on FR

because I thought Real Time was good last night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2412844#2412892

Ridiculous

[SeekingTruth]

7. Just go to any thread that offers constructive criticism...

and it is there.

More specifically, I started the thread about whether THK hurts or helps the K/E campaign. In that I was accused of being freeper and some others threw in a few snide and insulting remarks.

As I've said before, we have to understand where our side is weak, tweak them and learn to fight in more effective and smart ways.

Sticking our heads in the sand and hoping things away won't do it.

[aquart]

10. As you've said before?

Gosh, why have we been ignoring all this wisdom?

WHOSE skin is thin, please?

[ThomCat]

13. Geez. Because discussing and understanding

is SO much less important than just showing support.

Right. :eyes:

[sonicx]

17. what issues about kerry would you like to discuss

:)

[ThomCat]

25. Tangent

Getting into those discussions here would be a tangent. The point of this thread is can people have those discussions without being called a freeper.

The answer is no. The discussions happen, but then so do the insults and accusations.

In other threads, some going back a ways, we have discussed Kerry's unconditional support for NAFTA, the WTO, and the IMF. He talks like a progressive but he supports turning over more monetary and extra-legislative control to corporations.

Until more people realize what is really in NAFTA and what the WTO and IMF are doing I'd like to see those discussions continuing.

Threads I'd like to see...

I'd like to hear more about, and discuss, Kerry's position on reforming the criminal justice system, our incarceration rate in this country, and the privatization of the prison industry.

I'd like to hear more about, and discuss, his position on trimming the pentagon budget and getting an actual audit done. After all, they've been unable to account for a large percentage of their expenditures since Reagan.

Yes, he's better than Bush, and yes, we can all go read his campaign promises, but what's he really going to do?

[sonicx]

27. simple answer

many here don't like it (i don't either) but:

kerry's running to the middle, not as a progressive. nothing you can do about that, except email the campaign: [e-mail]

[ThomCat]

29. I agree.

Writing to the Kerry campaign is vital. Done it.

But how much more influential would we be if we'd all discussed these issues and more of us write to Kerry? Biting our tongues and writing lone letters to Kerry does a little, but talking together does more.

I posted on this thread simply to agree with the original poster than this kind of talk is often criticised and shot down. I'm hoping people calm down after the election and start participating in real discussions again.

Then again, I'm one of those people who thinks it's going to be Kerry by a landslide so I don't feel that discussions are a threat. I can understand that anyone who is worried about losing is going to be a bit more defensive.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. That's not constructive criticism, that is micharacterizing his positions

On NAFTA, his support is not UNCONDITIONAL. He is for ENFORCING aspects of NAFTA that pertain to labor and environment, that BUSHCO and even Clinton conveniently ignored.

On IMF and WTO, he does favor some restrictions and again ENFORCEMENT of overseas banking legislation that is much more restrictive than the current status quo. It's all on his site.

Finally, do you think any candidate that goes up against this power and states they are going to rip it from their claws is likely to survive? Do you think that MAYBE having a vp that has successfully sued corporations might be a clue as to what tack he will take?

[Toucano]

72. Thank you! n/t

[aquart]

21. Is that what's being discussed?

Or is someone pissed at not being applauded for the brilliance of telling us we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand?

Kerry is not my perfect candidate but I like a LOT of things about him and his record and I loathe every single thing about Bush. I do not possess the contemptuous belief that my neighbors are too stupid to notice what I do.

Panicking and screeching Wrong track! everytime a CNN poll shows an edge for George is not appreciated by me. And I express that.

Accusing us of being thin-skinned when the writer can't take the heat in the kitchen........well...that may pass for discussion where you come from.

[ThomCat]

28. Kind of hostile today?

Chill. Calm down. We're on the same side. Can you post something that isn't insulting or an attack?

"discussion where you come from." Well, where I come from discussion normally involves more than just bashing people as "screeching" and accusing people of not being able to "take the heat in the kitchen."

Please take a moment to go reread your posts. And please cut back on your coffee.

:pals:

[sangh0]

67. Every day I'm hostile to lies

and saying the Kerry supports NAFTA "unconditionally" is a lie. The issue isn't why people are hostile to lies, but why you are so comfortable repeating them.

[MoonRiver]

18. What's the point of making such a statement about Teresa?

She's his wife and isn't going away. (Personally, I like her a lot and so does every other Dem I know.) But having DUers putting her down just makes Kerry look bad. Maybe THAT'S why people got upset! doyathink??
:eyes:

[aquart]

23. I missed that. THK is Teresa.

And this person started a thread for the purpose of dissing our candidate's wife?

And is angry at not getting our attention and respect?

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Perhaps if Teresa baked SeekingTruth a cookie.......?

[Bunny]

31. Yep. It pissed me off too, aquart.

Maybe because we've had 12+ years now of Hillary bashing, of how she was "hurting" us, and shouldn't we be worried about it? Weren't we concerned about the peoples' perception of her?

Anyone who wants to start the same shit about Teresa had better be ready to get some shit fed back to him/her. And then wonder why we're all so touchy about it?

Some people... :eyes:

[MoonRiver]

32. And wonders why people question his alliances!

With "friends" like this...

[SeekingTruth]

35. BS....

I was not intending to be dismissive of THK. My point was to ask others if they thought her behavior hurts or helps the K/E campaign and point out some behavior of hers that in my opinion does not help. That is it.

But you come here and post some comments and the next thing that happens is immature insulting.

[sangh0]

69. Those being criticized often say the critics are "immature"

It's a great way for people who say they want a discussion to avoid being constructively criticized themselves.

It's called "constructive" criticism in order to misportray any criticism of their critique as "destrucive". Constructive criticism is mature. Criticizing them is just childish

[Andromeda]

45. Not everybody thinks like you...

When you criticize Teresa or John Kerry you leave yourself open to criticism so you have to be prepared for that.

People in this forum are pretty feisty and they are passionate about their candidate.

I happen to think John Kerry is doing great. Does he make mistakes? Yes, but he's open to suggestions, not rigid and uncompromising.

If you feel strongly about something Kerry is saying or doing or if you wish he would talk about something he hasn't addressed yet, post your suggestions on the Kerry blog or e-mail his campaign.

It's not what you say but how you say it. Lighten up, this is a lively board so try to develop a thicker skin.

[Cha]

62. I give you my answer right now...Teresa is

part of the package..and she only helps our Campaign!

Sorry.. if some people can't handle an intelligent, eloquent, independent woman!

[benburch]

2. Because if they do not win, the Dark Ages arrive permanently.

It is because there is SO much at stake. I cannot think of any Democratic candidate that could be running for whom the same sort of defensive reaction would not be had.

I seriously believe that if Kerry is not elected, the result will make the Nazi atrocities look tame.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kaitykaity]

42. If Bush "wins" steals another four years, our country is over.

"Oh it won't be that bad" is BULLSHIT.

[dennis4868]

80. I remember after Bush stole....

the 2000 election I was very upset because I know all about Bush and their corruption and I told my father-in law about this....he said, "dont worry, it's not like buildings are going to start falling down."

:puke:

[papau]

3. constructive criticism or a critique of K/E that does not sound like GOP

reason we should accept Kerry loss now?

GOTV is about the only real thing that DUers can do that changes things prior to election.

I'll worry about Kerry's whatever after the election.

[sui generis]

4. there are a wide diversity of people here SeekingTruth

don't feel too negative about your experience here. So much is under assault by rabid neo-cons all the time that some of us forget that we're all on the same side some times.

The "thin skinned" part is just a reflex, most everyone here is actually fairly reasonable. Don't let it get you down - remember no one person's opinion here represents the entire board. Participating is the most important part of this process.

[On the Road]

6. There's a Ton of History

dating back to before the primaries. A lot of people are on edge that Kerry's been unfairly attacked and maybe lose support or even the election because of negative perceptions.

Although accusing other DUers of being freepers banned, not everyone is up front about their motives or point of view. Criticism that's meant as constructive isn't always taken that way. Too bad you had to be subjected to it.

[aquart]

8. If people are reacting to you in a negative way

Perhaps it is not us, but how you phrase your comments.

Maybe they are inappropriate or ill-timed for the job at hand.

You might want to examine what YOU do to get such a negative response. I mean, there is that possibility, isn't there?

[Burma Jones]

9. USUALLY...............

The person getting insulted etc. has a low post count..........

Anyway, we're putting up a highly united front. This site is not private and is read by mainstream media types. So, while the fight is on, we do not second guess our nominee, that is suicidal and stupid. When the fight is over, that's a different story.

[AuntPatsy]

14. Good post and I believe says it all....

[SeekingTruth]

36. Oh, now that is a wise decision....

let's see, let's all be quiet in our critique until AFTER the election...now that makes sense to me.

Hm, that is along the same line as saying a person is unpatriotic for criticizing the US's Iraqi policy.

[Burma Jones]

39. What are you going to do? persuade someone to vote for.....

Clark, Dean, Lieberman?????

This ain't like opposing a war, it's more akin to not bad-mouthing your coach or teammates before the Super Bowl.

[richgriffin]

41. thanks for making me laugh!

shut up allready, don't you know the media is listening in on us? They are too busy cheerleading for mr. bush and his thugs to give a hoot about our opinions!

[sangh0]

71. I was wondering how long it would take to get to "You're censoring me"

:crazy:

[Kahuna]

102. If you criticize things that are unlikely to change, like who Kerry's..

wife is, or the fact he is running a centrist campaign like all candidates do who run for president, you're very like to get the brush off. Why talk about things that can't be changed? It's not helpful and it's a tremendous waste of time.

[sonicx]

12. email John Kerry about it...

[e-mail]

we at DU aren't john kerry.

[luaneryder]

15. For one thing it's crunch time

For many here, like myself, it is just a few short weeks until we know if we are doomed to another four years of "staying the course" to the total ruin of this country or be set free from fear. I can understand someone getting annoyed with K/E campaign when one imagines something could have been done another way, but constant criticism at a time like this just makes short tempers shorter for no good reason. I don't think constructive criticism is attacked here, but this is a stressful time and words may have been misconstrued. Do you have an example?

[ThomCat]

16. It looks like some of the posts on this thread proved your point.

[sangh0]

73. Yes, Seeking Truth is thin-skinned

S/he can't take criticism

[moondust]

19. I did a search of your thread.

FYI: There is not a single mention of the word "freeper" in the entire thread.

Nearly all replies appear to be reasonable arguments/rebuttals (as opposed to name-calling). I suspect you are offended because so many heartily disagree with you!

[SeekingTruth]

38. No one actually said the word, but...

one of them made it clear...as clear as when Bush talks of the Iraq/9/11/Hussein link....

[sangh0]

74. So you can misportray Kerry's positions

but it's wrong when a poster misportrays yours?

[SeekingTruth]

77. Where did I misportray Kerry's postions?!?

I don't know what you are talking about. The point of my thread is that anytime it seems people here at DU criticize, bitch or moan, tons of people end up tossing insults instead of destructing the ideas of the person who is offering the criticism. That was my point - that and how offended people here seem to get when Democratic icons are supposedly attacked or criticized.

It is quite hypocritical for us Dems to sit around and whine about how the Repugs tag us as unpatriotic when we criticize Iraq and then turn around and write that this member or that member isn't really a progressive because he or she offers criticism of our party leaders. Jeez...

[sangh0]

97. Right in this post you engage in more distortion

It is quite hypocritical for us Dems to sit around and whine about how the Repugs tag us as unpatriotic when we criticize Iraq and then turn around and write that this member or that member isn't really a progressive because he or she offers criticism of our party leaders. Jeez...

You are not being criticized by me nerely because you offer criticism. My criticism is based on the subject matter. You have repeatedly claimed that discussion of THK's effect on the campaign is "constructive criticism", but I see nothing constructive about it.

When you claim that the criticism you are recieving is due solely to the fact that you are critical, you are dismissing the actual complaints that have been made about your criticism. IMO, you ought to address the substance of those criticisms instead of accusing your critics of being "unpatriotic" and "intolerant of dissent"

[gardenista]

90. Ya know what? If you're legit, you'll stick around and contribute to a

constructive discussion. And you'll occasionally get into heated disagreements with people. Some with high post counts, some with low ones.

I'd say at around post count # 879, I got accused by another DUer of being paid to express my opinion that violent protests were hurtful to our cause. I had also expressed a general disdain for the sort of tactics used by anarchists in protests I had attended. You know what happened?

I kept having the discussion, and we kept disagreeing, and we all still post here. But at least we were talking about something relevant.

Grow an epidermis.

[AmerDem]

20. give us your "constructive criticism"

OOH wait, you only replied once to your own post. Never mind, do a hit and run piece somewhere else!

[treading_water]

22. I think it's the post count

I am also pretty new to this forum and I, too, an uneasy about the hostility that is often displayed toward newcomers asking questions, though none has been directed at me personally.

This is my take, though - As a newcomer, one has to establish ones "street cred", so to speak. DU is a highly visible forum that is a haven for progressives, but it also constantly under attack by those opposed to the values that we hold dear.

I think it is natural to act with suspicion when one is under attack. I think it's important for us to be patient and to participate in other conversations until one's credibility is established. At that point, hopefully the long time posters will give you the benefit of the doubt instead of jumping to conclusions.

Or not. :) What do I know? I'm still under 20 posts. :)

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmyStrange]

89. !!! Welcome to the DU !!!

check out the "unoffical" DU slang dictionary when you have a chance:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org/

and what you say is so true about street creds, but there are some people here who don't start any threads and do nothing but attack other people and they are utterly mean and nasty about it.

For some reason they think this helps John Kerry, but in my opinion they are no better than the freepers who attack the DU in a constant barrage of hate and vileness. The only diff between them and freepers is that they have been here for a long time and they are (supposedly) for John Kerry, but I think they just enjoy insulting and ridiculing people and they use JFK as a way to get a free ride to do this.

To make a long story short, ignore them. They aren't worth the toilet paper it takes to wipe your a**,

d

[FirstDoNoHarm]

24. They are all we have and we must go with them

The whole goal here is to defeat Bush and who does it does not really matter. Sadly it has come to this.

[AuntPatsy]

59. Thats not true, it does matter! Would you vote another hitler in

office? Kerry has proven he is more than capable and deserving of the next commander in cheif, I am tired of hearing the abb slogan, that is nothing more than a copout for those hiding in their own little worlds and do not take time to research what is good for our country and the candidates that we vote in to lead us...

[Bridget Burke]

26. If we want to hear Republican talking points,

We'll watch FOX or listen to Rush.

Suggesting Teresa H Kerry be stifled is not "constructive criticism". If you wish to offer any suggestions to the Kerry campaign, I suggest you contact them.

[AmyStrange]

99. Is this what we're suppose to tell people...

who ask us these critical questions while out canvassing for Kerry?

I'm sure that kind of attitude will get swing voters to swing their votes to Kerry. I think critical criticism here is vital in helping to convince folks not to vote for Bush or Nader.

If while out and about in the "real" world someone ask me a critical question of Kerry, I am eternally grateful for the folks here who take these questions and critique here seriously and give good advice.

According to advice some of the isiots here have offered (and I'm not refering to you at all), we're suppose to tell them they are freepers and they should f*** themselves and vote for Bush.

What's the point of even going out into the "real" world then to help Kerry get elected.

I PERSONALLY THANK THOSE WHO ASK CRITICAL QUESTIONS AND DOUBLY THANK THOSE WHO ANSWER THEM SERIOUSLY. You make my job out there in the "REAL" world a little easier,

d

[kurtyboy]

30. Because there's only 40 days left!

Save your discussions for Nov. 3rd--Right now we need total unity.

A ding here and a ding there at this point in the cycle only fuels the opposition. We can't afford it. Spend your time more wisely for victory: If you have questions, make sure they are directed at the failures of the current administration.

To use a sports analogy, don't go criticizing our team's marathon runner just as he's approaching the finish line--encourage, encourage, encourage!

Kurtyboy

[trogdor]

33. Because most of them are coming from the Chicken Littles

Oooooh, Kerry said X; the sky is falling!

Aaaaaaah, Kerry wouldn't call Chimpboy on Y; the sky is falling.

That, my friends, doesn't constitute constructive criticism. If you really want to beat Bush, regardless of how you feel about Kerry, I would cut this shit out. This is neither the time nor the place for this bullshit.

/end rant

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Cheerleaders vs Questioners/Dissenters.

The pom-pom brigade that advocates burying their heads in the sand, even when the pablum campaign is falling apart, gets the heebie-jeebies and throw tantrums when some anyone points out that Kerry/Edwards have made blunders - starting with their IWR vote.

They bitch and moan and make accusations but remain fixated on the idea that K/E have to try to please everybody rather than have clear cut principles and run on them.

The sorta/maybe/kinda rhetoric, and the idiotic DLC/windsurfing/gun-toting/alhpa-male is having the usual effect. A squishy candidate that appears to stand for nothing but trying to win.

The complain about the "media" not celebrating Kerry. But refuse to acknowledge that in order to get headlines you have to say something that will make headlines.

[deckerd]

49. Good point (n/t)

[AuntPatsy]

37. I believe it is pretty easy to figure out, in all my years I have

never seen the media so biased against a presidential candidate and so open about their preferences, nine times out of ten all you hear are Kerry smear talking points, why no one has denounced this new add about Kerry wind surfing as about the most ignorant and childish of them all is beyond me, so of course people are a bit sensitive to all this Kerry bashing, it is plainly easy to see why...

[richgriffin]

43. I cna't imagine it but who knows?

That windsurfing ad I would imagine would work in Kerry's FAVOR, precisely because it is so silly!! yet, who knows? people are not all that bright, that's for sure!

[deckerd]

51. Repubs are behind the times if they think windsurfing is elitist (n/t)

[JSJ]

44. criticize, yes- but make it good, edifying nt

[unfrigginreal]

46. What a bunch of crap

DUers thin skinned about K/E? Yes, but that's not what stinks about your post. What you offered earlier today that drew insults was a post suggesting that Teresa was hurting the campaign. Exactly what did you expect to come from that? Do you want the campaign to hide her so that Drudge can start another headline, "Missing Teresa!", that would again draw a posting from you about Teresa causing problems for the campaign.

Take it from someone that doesn't hesitate to criticize K/E, you have every right to post critical thoughts but expect to be called on it, for you will be in the minority. Sometimes the heat will be greater than others but like they say "If you can't stand..."

[SeekingTruth]

50. Pick up the new issue of the New Yorker magazine..

In regards to THK, the author talks to advisors inside of the K/E campaign that point out some of the same things I have mentioned.

Geez, I'm not saying muzzle the woman or hide her on an island in the Pacific, I was just asking what others thought. For the majority here, the choir loves her, but what concerns me is the group of people who are not K/E or Dem diehards.

So someone tell me, how does it help the campaign when she calls people "idiots", "scumbags" or tells people to "shove it"?

After reading the article, I have an even more favorable opinion of THK - it explains much about the way she is and how she got there, but she doesn't have to persuade me. Almost any Dem has my vote going out the door.

Oh, and I can take the heat, it's just a bit immature and erodes true and open discourse. And all of this has again shown how Dems have to work on ways to fight with more effect. We keep on ignoring the changes in American politics and must quit doing that.

[sangh0]

75. How is that constructive?

Your entire claim is based on the idea that criticizing your motives is unfair because your criticism is supposedly "constructive". So tell us how "asking what others thought" of THK's behavior is "constructive"?

For the majority here, the choir loves her, but what concerns me is the group of people who are not K/E or Dem diehards.

And I like how you implicitely declare that those who love THK are K/E or Dem "diehards". Have you ever considered the possibility that they are THK diehards? Or has her behavior ruled out that possibility?

The message is clear. Those who praise J/E are thin-skinned diehards. The reasonable people are offering "constructive" criticism, even though we never hear about how it's constructive.

[SeekingTruth]

78. Reading too much into comments...

What I meant is that more than likely we here are going to vote for K/E; that we don't have to be sold on any of the Dem ticket, but the next battle is getting those who aren't solid partisan democrats to do so as well.

Hope that clears that up...

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

83. You're about as clear as mud

You don't give any examples except to bash Teresa Heinz Kerry. I think she said best at the Democratic convention and I'm paraphrasing, "Wouldn't it be nice if women were thought of as outspoken when they voice their opinion as opposed to mouthy."

[sangh0]

98. NO, s/he is being clear as day

I asked how her/his remarks are constructive, and s/he has clearly shown that s/he has no intention of explaining how they are constructive.

[SeekingTruth]

111. Whew.....

All of us need to discuss our Party's weaknesses - we need to study them, learn from them and craft better tactics to win. That is my point in offering criticism.

The reason in the other post I mentioned THK was because from co-workers and other people, I have a concern about some of her behavior and wanted to know the thoughts of others out there. I wanted to know if it was valid concern or not. To those here, her behavior is not and that is great. But the problem is, could it be an issue to wavering voters.

For example, during a focus group discussion broadcast last night on CSPAN of undecided voters, the biggest laugh came when the moderator asked the panel of ten or twelve people what single thing could Kerry do to improve his campaign - the man replied, "get a new wife".

As I've mentioned, I LIKE THK. And after reading the essay about her in the new New Yorker, I like ever even MORE.

But as I've stressed - WE here do not have to be persuaded by the Kerry campaign.

Now you ask how are these points constructive? Well, for one, it doesn't help that a person's spouse is perceived by misunderstood potential voters as being a loose cannon, abrasive or dismissive of others. We must observe these things and work on them.

For example, in the New Yorker piece the campaign strategists have found out that THK really connects with people in small, intimate settings.

Are any of those constructive?

[gardenista]

91. No. "We" here ARE voting for K/E. Not "more than likely"

Check out the "More Than Likely Underground", and once you've made up your mind, come on back.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

93. Check out the "More Than Likely Underground"

LOFL. He probably didn't mean to say what he said.
I'm sure he'll explain what he really meant to say.
Once more again.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

100. I am terribly terribly disappointed

to see that you have insulted me. I thought
we were getting along fine, having a fabulous
discussion about all kinds of interesting things,
and then now here you go and insult me out of the blue.
I am glad it has been deleted because I don't know
if I could stand seeing the actual insult itself,
something like me being "about 17" or something awful
like that, because I'm thin-skinned about ageism. I
hope you feel better.

[Kahuna]

103. THK, apparently did learn the error of her ways. And she has ...

"stiffled it" and is now less controversial. Haven't you noticed? So why harp on it? You're harping on something that is irrelevant at this point. That was yesterday. This is today. Let's concentrate on right now instead of what happened in the past and cannot be undone.

[dumpster_baby]

48. Heh heh! I get blasted on a regular basis around here....

After posting something critical, one DUer congratulated my mother on her good taste.....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. Why must you regularly start threads complaining about him?

Start a thread on a specific issue. If people disagree they will say so. If your point is defensible or worthy of debate, then debate it.

Frankly, I think THK is about as much of an issue as Pickles is...i.e. a non issue. Granted Repubs will use her as a lightening rod just as they did Hillary, but what is your recommendation? That she NOT campaign for her husband when she does so to adoring crowds that cheer her? That she take a back seat and act like a Stepford wife?

I've read all your threads and posts that you start on these issues. I've yet to see one FRAMED in a "constructive" manner, including this one that I just wasted two minutes on that I will never get back.

[Gyre]

54. The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Good intentions abound in these forums. Panic and frustration are also evident in varying proportions and it's not totally inappropriate because the stakes are as high as they are. However, DU is like a family, and if you accept them as your tribe you put up with a certain amount of what you deem "stupidity". We don't need to be using verbal shotguns on each other.

Taking a deep breath before you submit your post, is a positive exercise. I don't always do it, but I try.

Gyre

[A-Schwarzenegger]

55. Quit freaking whining.

Get real, Thin-Skinned One. If you're gonna play
dumb so well, don't be shocked when people treat
you as if you were.

[SeekingTruth]

79. This is what I mean.....

oh, boy, say the emperor has no clothes and it's shoot the messenger....

[A-Schwarzenegger]

81. Now you're comparing Kerry to the Emperor.

Keep digging, Transparent One.

[SeekingTruth]

82. Wow......

No, all I meant was that this obsession around here when it comes to criticizing the democrats has led our party to a perpetual second place finish. We do not have the House, Senate or Whitehouse and why? Because we are so afraid of self-examination and change. Look at how the DLC has continually screwed all of us just so they can keep their own little fiefdom.

We have to evolve and change to win. By finding our faults, it will only make us stronger.

And if you don't think our party doesn't have problems, look at it this way - how the heck can we be a 50/50 nation in the time of Bush? In my years of following politics, and it is many, I have never seen a more corrupt Whitehouse (moral wise, party philosophy wise, human wise et cetera) than this one. Heck, in my opinion it even tops Nixon's administration.

Here is another example, when the Dem primaries started, a friend talked up Kerry (and out of our candidates I believe Kerry is the best that ran - though I am a Dean supporter) and suggested that Kerry, the real war candidate, would have a cakewalk against the draft dodging Bush. I told her not to be surprised, because the Repugs would find some way to dirty up anyone, even a combat veteran.

So, it does no good for us ignore these problems because the other side certainly has already observed the most obvious ones.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

86. "No, all I meant was.."

You're the one who compared Kerry to the Emperor With No Clothes.
Which says all you need to say, whether you meant it or whether
it just slipped out. You're also holding yourself out as the only
fella around here who has criticized Kerry or the Dems. Dream on.
Everything you say in your silly posts (the Teresa one was a gem)
has been said here by better and worse than you. Yawn. Newsflash:
The Dem Party is not hanging on your every brilliant word. Get off
yer whining ass and work to get Kerry in there and * out. Otherwise
you're just blowing gas.

[SeekingTruth]

88. This is what I typed....

"oh, boy, say the emperor has no clothes and it's shoot the messenger...."

That is not a comparison to Bush - but a generalization of how things appear to be around here - Kerry is the king here and when people toss some criticism his way, people like you tend to offer back insult after insult after insult toward the poster. That is what I'm getting at.

Here is a sample of your insults in just one posting:

"You're also holding yourself out as the only fella around here who has criticized Kerry or the Dems."

"Everything you say in your silly posts (the Teresa one was a gem)
has been said here by better and worse than you."


"The Dem Party is not hanging on your every brilliant word."

"Otherwise you're just blowing gas."


Again, in regards to THK, pick up the new copy of the New Yorker - Kerry's inside strategists are commenting about the same thing I asked - and oddly, if there wasn't some sort of kernel of truth to that concern, have you noticed that over the past few weeks she has been sort of tucked away?

And what is so hard for DU'ers to understand that preaching to our own choir is not needed? We don't need to convert others or persuade others? And throwing petty insults at each other doesn't work either.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

92. Try reading.

"oh, boy, say the emperor has no clothes and it's shoot the messenger...." That is not a comparison to Bush...

Nobody said it was a comparison to Bush. I said you compared
*John Kerry* to the Emperor With No Clothes. And that is
exactly what you did. If you would like to say you misspoke,
or you didn't mean what you said, or you have changed your mind,
or it was a slip of the keyboard, or you exposed yourself
inadvertently, then stop wiggling and moaning and say so.
Just like you said people previous to this thread called you
a freeper, when in fact they had not. When that was pointed out to
you, you weasled out of it by saying, Well, they almost
called you that, and THEN you compared a DUer to Bush lying.
You must be very busy being a prophet in your own country,
shooting yourself in the foot with one hand, and digging the
hole you're in deeper with the other. And give the "we" a rest,
Kemo Sabe. It's a dead giveaway.

[Kahuna]

104. What has caused our, "perpetual second place" position is not

what you claim. It has been our lack of cohesiveness. The repukes learned long ago that in order to win they needed to stick together, stay on message and above, not criticize other republicans. That's why they win and we lose. But we're learning. That's why you probably get jumped when you publically criticize Kerry and his wife for all to see. So that the mainstream media can pick up your quote and others in a thread and do a story about how, "Dems Fear THK." You think it can't happen? It can. And, it has.

[SeekingTruth]

112. They already know all of this...

come on, 99 percent of the stuff that is written here, the other side knows already.

As many scholars have noted, the repugs have been working on things for over 30 yrs.

And I agree - we are a fragmented party while they are somewhat fragmented but have common strands of glue (god, guns, gays, bible) that hold them together. Dean was right on about so many things. He was just a little bit before his time.....

[Trajan]

56. We need unity ....

Nitpicking about minor peeves is hardly conducive to creating a unified front this november ...

IF you have legitimate gripes about K/E: then dont hold back ... but even then: expect legitimate gripes about your opinion ....

Perhaps the problem isnt YOUR freedom to speak, but of those whom criticize YOU ? ...

You want THEM to shut up ? ...

IF you came to DU to expect superhuman behaviors you have another thing coming ....

[Forkboy]

57. Heh...seems I've missed very little the last couple of months

just the same ole same ole.

[unfrigginreal]

61. Damn glad to see you back!

Funny, I was just thinking to myself "I sure miss Forkboy" when I ran across this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x895022

[Forkboy]

66. Thanks!

I'm like that bad rash that keeps coming back just when you thought you were finally rid of it :D

[newyawker99]

70. Hey Forkboy!!

I was just thinking about you.

:hi:

[Forkboy]

76. Hi there!

My ears were burning...now I know why.

Either that or my blood pressure is too high again ;-)

[JohnKleeb]

58. Because we have to defend the guys against republicans

We get tired and exhausted from that, you really think we're gonna have much patience in late September to people who like to nitpick at our own party's nominee, sorry I don't mind questions but I have to defend Kerry-Edwards at least once a day, and I don't have patience for democrats who think they're not good enough when Kerry is on our side on the bulk of the isses.

[Kahuna]

105. An aside... John Kleeb, constantly amazes me... For one so young..

you are so wise. :loveya:

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnKleeb]

63. You and NSMA have been great on this

I got better things to do than trash Kerry, like umm actually working for him, spreading the word about him out, sure he's not perfect but I really think he was one of if not the best we could have had.

[Misunderestimator]

65. Exactly right. Which is what we're all doing...

well, most of us anyway. :hi:

[JohnKleeb]

68. yep

really, we deal with this stuff from our right wing friends, family, coworkers, etc, like for instance I had to defend Kerry today against a Bush supporter, we shouldn't have to defend our nominee against our own party especially now, sure Kerry isn't perfect but I trutfully think he will be great.

[gardenista]

84. Hmmmm... must have something to do with this being DEMOCRATIC Underground

and Kerry being the DEMOCRATIC nominee.

Now, if you were actually offering anything constructive, or any "insight" like you say your're interested in doing, we might have a reason to have a polite conversation.

But you're just blowing smoke up your own ass. I'm not saying you're a freeper. Just wasting people's time with a post like this.

[SeekingTruth]

85. Thanks for making my point...

When we Dems have control of the Congress and Whitehouse, we can take a breather. Obviously our party needs to change our tactics to win our strategy.

Being myopic about our weaknesses will not get us there.

But it is good to read how you 1000 plus posters love to throw the insults when anything near criticism is mentioned.

[gardenista]

87. You're welcome. And the same to you!

Why don't you make a few "criticisms" and take us for a test drive?

Right now, you're still just wasting people's time.

Why not just post an "ask me anything" thread in the lounge?

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

101. Answer the question! How is THK criticism "constructive"??

You jeep claiming that you are only engaging in "constructive" criticism, but so far, you have been unable to explain how discussing the effect THK has been having on the campaign would be "constructive"

If you won't support the claim that lies at the center of your argument (ie that your criticism is "constructive"), why should anyone believe you?

[SeekingTruth]

113. Put it up here in this reply...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=893843&mesg_id=898512&page=

[Kahuna]

106. Our weakness is not sticking together. We're sticking together now..

and you complain about that. :shrug:

[ianrs]

107. as a first-time poster...

and only a member for a few weeks, I would join some of my 1000+ siblings in doubting the rationale and even the intention behind of every single post of yours that I have seen. If this is what you mean by insult, so be it, but if you are genuine about wanting people to be less "thin-skinned", do so in a constructive way. What could possibly be constructive about your bizarre THK question? Put another way it could have been interesting, but as it came across as a barely veiled attack, don't be surprised at the sort of responses you get. Likewise (and less veiled!) for this thread.
Sorry to intrude, I shall now retreat into quietland.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

108. Welcome, ianrs.

Join in & enjoy.

[Behind the Aegis]

95. thin-skinned or tired?

I am not sure what has posted "against" you, but I do know that I am tired of seeing the glorification of the Shrub in the media. I come to DU to see a some positives about our candidate. I have no need to be a democrat "dittohead," but I really enjoy seeing democrats and liberals in a more positive light.

Some of the posts I have seen on DU are very ambiguous. Perhaps it is because people cannot express themselves as clearly as they wish, I know I have that problem sometimes. When I see a thread about how THK is a liability with no substantial proof, it does anger me. When I see posts on how JK is so "off message," I get frustrated. Kerry was not my first choice, but I have come to support him as my candidate and not a ABB candidate.

WE are in grave danger if this misAdministration walks into another 4 years! We must pull together! The "liberal" media is no help as they do not wish to show the facts. The ONE thing I admire about the Repugs is they support their candidate to the hilt! Even if they question in private, they present a united front! Shrub could rape a nun and eat a baby on live TV and he would still have support!! Perhaps the Repugs are blind in their support and that can be bad, but when the safety of this and other nations is on the line, we, as democrats, need to pull together!!!

Dissent is a good thing. However, the candidate for our party has been chosen. IF he is not elected into office, will we still have our rights to dissent? With the current mis Administration's disregard for liberty and civil rights, I would say we will lose our right of dissent.

We have many things working against us. We should not be working against ourselves!

Brightest Blessings!

[skygazer]

109. Okay, I just read this entire thread

Nowhere do you offer ANYTHING remotely constructive. Nobody objects to real, honest and constructive criticism. "Kerry should focus more on this", "I wish he'd make a point of mentioning that". That's constructive, it offers a solution to something perceived as a problem. Sometimes we disagree as to whether that's needed but we recognize the constructive aspect of the OP.

However, tossing out unhelpful comments about how THK may be detrimental to the campaign does not offer anything constructive. What do you propose be done? You've not said and evidently are not going to. Simply posting negative comments about the candidate so close to the election does nothing positive and does much negative.

The key word is "constructive". I haven't seen anything constructive offered from you here.

[SeekingTruth]

110. In this thread, offering constructive criticism wasn't my point, my...

point was to point out that from reading other threads, whenever people offer criticism they end up getting insulted. De-constructing someone's points or ideas is one thing, but there doesn't have to be any insulting going on and people seem to take it directly personal whenever the Kerry campaign is examined. That was my point...