To Dean supporters: Will you vote for Clark if he's the nominee ?

[creativelcro]

[dansolo]

1. Absolutely (n/t)

[Padraig18]

2. Of course.

I'll also donate money, walk precincts, phone bank or whatever else needs to be done to eject the Unelected Fraud from the People's House.

[Bozola]

10. Same here. Heck, I'd even wear rubber lederhosen for the good general

(I already do this for Dean, tho') .... ;)

[Padraig18]

13. LOL!

Shall I bring a ball gag, and make it a party! :P

[RogueTrooper]

3. Please, for the love of God

enough of the loyalty tests.

[Bozola]

11. The "no" votes are the freepers

standing up to be counted....

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tinoire]

28. That's 4. Keep counting. Congratulations on Clark's latest endorsement!

And nice shot categorizing us as Freepers- not surprising though and neither is your poor form. Both just make you look silly. But what the hell.

Congratulations on the latest endorsement for Clark!!!

:bounce: :bounce:

Mike Savage? Quite a little coup there. Nothing like having the racist vote! Whoo hoo! The other candidates, with their proven track records, must be frothing at the mouth with jealousy </sarcasm> :)

:bounce: :bounce:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=80074


As we enter 2004, only GOD knows what fate will bring us. But, I believe we can determine our own fate, to a great extent. Likewise, I believe we, the real Americans, can and must determine the future of our country. We can do so by adhering to the Founding Fathers' genius, as well as by following the 10 Commandments. And remember there is now an 11th Commandment written by Michael Savage; Protect Our Borders, Language, and Culture.

GOD Bless America!

Michael Savage

MEN AND WOMEN PROTECTING AMERICA

Michael Savage founded The Paul Revere Society (PRS). With a crisis of leadership threatening the United States, PRS stands for the reassertion of our Borders, our Language, and our Culture.

Some say that the borders are arbitrary, English is only one of many languages in our new "Multicultural America," and that we share no common history or values. We believe in the Sovereignty of our Nation. That English is our national "glue." And that we all do share in the pillars of the Bible, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. These documents and what they stand for are our common cultural heritage.

The Paul Revere Society (PRS) will assert the values inherent in these pillars of freedom. We will seek to educate the citizenry about our nation's freedoms.

1. End Affirmative Action.
2. Close the Borders now.
3. Deport all illegal immigrants now.
4. Eliminate bilingual education in all states.
5. Require health tests for all recent foreign born immigrants.
6. Make tax cuts permanent.
7. Reduce the number of Federal Employees.
8. Tort Reform - Stop Class Action Lawyers.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/Membership.html
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

UNFORTUNATELY THE TENT IS ONLY SO BIG

You're absolutely right though. If Clark somehow gets the nomination, which I highly doubt- I will consider my 3.5 years at DU totally wasted and will remain home. I will not vote for Clark- I would prefer 4 more years of Republican right-wing rule than this little cosmetic changing of the guard where both parties will be merged into one right-wing party; that's not what my country is about.

[Crunchy Frog]

74. If we're going to go there

then I also want to congratulate Dean on having gotten Karl Roves endorsement.

I am not happy that I've just allowed myself to be baited into engaging in the same sort of behavior that I deplore in other people.

Thank you.

[Atlant]

29. No, the "NO" votes are the people sick of loyalty oaths.

Count me in as one of them.

I'll decide on Election Day for whom I shall cast my vote
and no amount of "Loyalty Oath" threads in GD2004 will
coerce me into supporting a candidate (who, BTW, is yet
to be named) whom I may not believe in.

Atlant

[drfemoe]

78. I'm not a freeper

dear. I won't vote for the General.

Not only that, I will tell all my friends and relatives who I've talked to about Dean that Clark is an imposter.

[Phelan]

85. Congratulations on joining the Bush Rangers!

I'm sure Bush will welcome people like you in his campaign.

[Bozola]

86. No one's making you take a loyalty test for gawds sakes

don't answer the bloody poll if you don't like it.

If you really think that ANY democratic candidate (this includes Lieberman, may gawd help us all) is NOT worth voting for over that festering mass of human waste, George W. Bush, then what are you doing here?

[LuminousX]

4. But I will campaign for him in Dean's name

Clark hasn't earned my support.

[xrepub]

5. Consider the alternative

4 more years of dubya

It is hard to imagine anything worse for America.

If Dubya wins, you may have wasted your last vote allowed.

[drfemoe]

79. This is what the Party needs to think about

before they shut out Howard Dean.

[bowens43]

83. I have considered the alternative

4 more years of bush and then someone I consider to be a Democrat (not to imply that I would get to make that decision) on the ballot in 2008. There are worse things.

[Hep]

6. I'll vote for him, but I'll be campaigning for local candidates

...

[Atlant]

7. I'm tired of being asked *DAILY* to take a "Loyalty Oath".

And I'm done doing it.

Atlant

[cthrumatrix]

8. i see rove casting his vote soundly....nice Karl

[wryter2000]

9. Of course

Clark's a fine candidate. In fact, he'd be my second choice.

And shame to the people who said no.

[RamboLiberal]

61. Agree with you - those of you who vote NO

I think you're fools. Why the hell would you want another 4 years of *? And if you're voting Green or for another independent, sitting home or writing in Daffy Duck you're allowing the BFEE to Win!

Dean is my first choice, but Clark is a close 2nd and I think Clark may actually have the better chance.

I just wish had opted out of the matching funds.

[Jack_Dawson]

12. Hmmm...split loyalty

While the Clark supporters would overwhelmingly vote Dean. I hope I don't see another Green Party disaster looming...

[Padraig18]

15. You don't, Jack.

This is NOT a slam, OK? *peace sign* What you see is just anger at the unrelenting attacks on Gov. Dean here for the last month or so. They'll get over it, come November. :)

On edit: You strike me as a fair person, Jack, and while there certainly have been attacks on Clark, I think you'd concede that they have been significantly outnumbered by the attacks on Dean, wouldn't you? :hi:

[Jack_Dawson]

17. Hope so

Whatever doesn't kill us will make us stronger against Chimpy's attacks, right?

:toast:

[Padraig18]

19. Bingo!

Slainte! :toast:

[Donna Zen]

69. I disagree

I think you'd concede that they have been significantly outnumbered by the attacks on Dean,

Now I never open the Dean threads so they might not stand out, but I would think the Clark people have just as much reason to complain. However, seem to have risen above it. You are one of the only Dean supporters here who has consistently been civil. There have been at least three "health scare" threads that I know of.

[boxster]

14. Wow, only 60/40 so far.

That's pretty scary. I guess a chunk of Dean's supporters (on DU, at least) really aren't transferable and would apparently prefer another 4 years of Bush.

Here's hoping that the ratio improves.

[Ninga]

16. It means nothing of the sort

[boxster]

27. Please elaborate.

40% of Dean supporters in this poll will not vote for Clark if he wins the nomination. In a purely hypothetical extrapolation, if that 40% translated to all Dean supporters, Bush will surely win again in 2004.

Do you believe otherwise? It would be Nader, the Sequel.

[Padraig18]

30. A couple of problems

1.) You don't know that it's Dean supporters voting 'no' at all.

2.) DU does NOT reflect the overall makeup of Democrats, Independents and other cross-over voters nationwide.

[boxster]

43. Yes, in part

1) True. There are, however, a significant number of DU posters that have professed that they are NBD. Those posters could certainly be voting here. Or, as I said elsewhere, it could be Kerry, Kucinich, et al, supporters trying to make DU Dean supporters look bad.

2) "In a purely hypothetical extrapolation". I think that I made it pretty clear that this was a hypothetical argument.

[w13rd0]

18. No, Dean just has stronger support...

...among Independents, Greens and those not traditionally associated with the Democratic party. I'm sure they resent "bait and switch" marketing tactics. I vow come November, that I will not vote for Bush.

[boxster]

31. Oh, please.

This is DU, not the general public. How many people who voted in this DU poll do you suppose are "Independents, Greens and those not traditionally associated with the Democratic party".

This is Democratic Underground. I certainly hope the members are associated with the Democratic Party.

And, for the record, I'll vote for whomever is the nominee. The bottom line is that Bush has to go, regardless of who our nominee is. My point was that a chunk of Dean supporters in this DU poll don't seem to share that sentiment.

[KaraokeKarlton]

42. I'm registered Independent and a bona-fide swing voter

I support Howard Dean. I don't trust Wes Clark. He has no politcal record for me to look at to decide if I can live with how he would run the country. As an ex military wife, I don't want to see the country run like a military base. I'm not convinced that Clark wouldn't end up being worse than Bush. If he had ever actually won an election and been in political office, I would have something to judge him on. Unfortunately, I have nothing to look at, and as a result I can't say I'd vote for him. I would support him being Secretary of Defense 100%, but president? No.

[boxster]

44. Obviously, we disagree.

Any of our candidates would be light-years better than Bush. Bush is a right-wing extremist and has governed as such. From my standpoint, it is impossible for Clark or any of our other candidates to be a worse President than Bush has been to date.

You may not trust Clark, but I seriously doubt that someone who professes such liberal viewpoints could be worse for the country than Bush has been.

Re: "something to judge him on". Try his web site. Try issues2000.org. Try the thousands of editorials written in the past year or so. There is certainly enough information available on all of our candidates, if one only takes the time to look for it.

[KaraokeKarlton]

46. Positions he claims to have is not a political record

And yes, it is possible to be worse than Bush. That's not saying Bush isn't bad, because he's horrible. But it could get worse and I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to take ANY chances on an untested and never before elected candidate. It's just not going to happen. Clark has a great MILITARY record, and I would whole heartedly support him in a cabinet position that directly relates to the military. Clark's website lists positions. Positions are NOT a proven record. I want to see proof because my country is at stake here. This is too important to toss out a military uniform to counter that stupid flight suit, and that's what I honestly feel Clark represents to many of those who support him. I can't jump on that bandwagon. I'm sticking with the one I KNOW I can trust, my ex governor, Howard Dean.

[boxster]

65. So, you'd rather have Bush for four more years?

Sorry, but I'm not willing to accept that as an option. If you really believe that you're better off staying home and letting Bush win, then you don't really understand how bad Bush has made things for us and for our descendants. He has caused damage that will stretch decades into the future: in the economy, in the environment, in our personal rights and freedoms, in the legal system, and in a multitude of other areas.

Show me ONE piece of evidence that shows that Clark is capable of wreaking that kind of havoc with the economy or the environment or any traditional Democratic issues. Good luck, because there isn't any.

This wolf-in-sheep's-clothing stuff is ludicrous. Some Dean supporters seem to think he'll suddenly go neo-conservative on us and be worse than Bush. I think not. I don't see how it's possible. Apparently, you do. Feel free to enlighten me with details on why and not just "I don't trust him".

If you want to know how Clark has dealt with issues in the past, read editorials that have been written by people he served with. Read articles written about his experiences with helping military families while he was in the service. As I said before, the record is there for anyone who bothers to look. Claiming he has no record is misguided, at best.

In fact, Clark's record is arguably more available than Dean's. It's been trumpeted by both his supporters and his detractors, including members of the military on both sides. Hundreds of articles have been written by news agencies in a variety of countries. I'd argue that some of them are probably less biased than U.S. news organizations and may provide a better view of Mr. Clark.

Dean, of course, sealed his governor records. So, we're apparently supposed to accept Dean at his word and assume that he'll do what he says and that his current positions reflect his record, but the same doesn't apply to Clark?

[KaraokeKarlton]

66. You really don't have a right to get angry with me, you know

If Clark had a political record in an elected office that I could compare to Bush's then I would be able to get an idea of how he'd be either better or worse. I can't do that because he's NEVER held a public office before. Bush is bad, and I can't stand him. I DO know what to expect from him, though. I DON'T know what to expect from Clark, and for all I know, he could be even worse than Bush.

As someone who lived on military bases and who is VERY familiar with the military...I DON'T want a military leader presiding over my country, and you know what...that's my perogative. If Deomcrats choose to nominate someone without a political record for concerned voters to look at and compare with Bush's record, that's your perogative too...but I don't owe you my vote. That must be earned. Dean has earned it, Clark hasn't.

Again, it's would be a horrible mistake to run against a flight suit and not the full spectrum of important issues.

I won't vote for Bush, but I won't vote for Clark, either.

:shrug:

[boxster]

80. Clark is more than the anti-flight suit

It seems as though the main issue here is that Clark is former military (I presume you have discounted Kerry for similar reasons.) If you discount Clark solely or primarily for this reason, there is little reason to suggest that you consider other issues.

However, you mentioned that Clark lacks "a full spectrum of issues" to counter Bush. I disagree. Try this, for starters: http://clark04.com/issues/

But, of course, he has no POLITICAL record on those issues, he's never voted on these issues, and so we must discount him as a candidate regardless of his experiences elsewhere and regardless of what he SAYS he will do in certain situations and on certain issues, ignoring policy statements, other experience, and the like.

OK, with that logic in mind, foreign policy experience is arguably an important issue to the average voter in the current political environment. Dr. Dean has little or no foreign policy experience. All we have to go on is what he says he would do.

So, should we then discount Dean solely because we have no foreign policy record to go by?

By the logic you are applying to Clark, we apparently should. Lack of foreign policy experience is arguably a bigger problem to most people than having an extensive military career.

I, however, do not discount Dean for this reason. His lack of experience concerns me because the current resident of the White House had little foreign policy experience before taking office and has been a total failure in that regard, but Dean is not Bush, so I'm hopeful that he's a quick study in the event that he wins the nomination.

Yes, it is your prerogative not to vote in November if Clark is the nominee, just as it was the prerogative of Ralph Nader to run primarily in states where he could be the spoiler in 2000.

And, if you have honestly researched Clark's background, beliefs, ideals, and experiences and still believe that he is potentially worse than Bush, there's no point in trying to convince you otherwise.

[KaraokeKarlton]

81. Clark has no political record for me to examine, period.

He can say whatever he wants to say and he has NOTHING on record to back it up. Bush said all kinds of things he didn't really mean, so who's to say Clark can't do the same? Didn't he also consider running as a candidate of the other major party as well? There are actions of Clarks that give me a reason to doubt his intentions. He did fundraising for Republicans. He voted for Republicans. He considered running as a Republican. He has promised more tax cuts, like Republicans do. He has NO political record for me to look at. His issues positions on his web page mean absolutely nothing to me because there isn't a record to back them up.

No, I don't like Kerry either, but it's not because of his military record. And it's for different reasons than I have for not liking Clark. At least Kerry has a long political record people can actually look at to see where he stands. And if I were looking for a military candidate, my choice would be Kerry, NOT Clark. I'm not looking for that, though. I'm looking for the BEST ALL AROUND candidate with the best record who has accomplished the most. That would be Dean.

And Dean does have some foreign policy experience. He worked very closely with the Canadian government on a number of issues during his time in Vermont. Any governor of a border state has some experience in that area. Also, Dean has been to over 50 countries, personally knows many foreign leaders and when he served on both the Democratic Governors Association and the National Governors Association he DID have plenty of dealings with foreign policy issues.

Yes, my mind is made up. I don't like Clark, don't support his candidacy as President, don't support him as VP and firmly believe the only position he is qualified for would be Secretary of Defense. On top of that, I don't even think he'd be the best choice for that position.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

75. Since these polls are anonymous

There is no way to know if the results are a reflection of the sentiments of Dean supporters, or if they are other people trying to make Dean supporters look bad.

People have run similar polls for Clark supporters that have also been abused to make us look bad, in fact there's one on this page right now. These polls are inherently flawed because anybody can click on them with no accountability.

I for one do not buy that this is a real reflection of most of the Dean supporters on this board.

[bowens43]

84. I am a Dean supporter, I voted NO

Do I look bad? I don't think so. Is there anywhere you would draw the line?Is there anyone you wouldn't vote for if they had a (D) next to their name on the ballot? How about Larouche? Would you vote for him if he got the nomination? Would you look bad if you didn't? How about traficant? Remember him? The Democratic congressman from Ohio now serving time in jail? If he had the nomination would you vote for him? Would you look bad if you didn't? We all draw a line somewhere and say at this point I have had enough,I won't support this person. Granted , my examples were extreme but you get the picture. I draw the line at general Clark. I will gladly vote for any of the other candidates but not for Clark. It doesn't mean I'm not a good Democrat. It doesn't mean I don't support my party. It just means I won't support Clark. And you're right, it ISN'T the attitude of most Dean supporters. But I feel strongly about this, so do others.

You really should quit 'makes Dean supporters look bad' stuff. It doesn't work and makes you look silly.

[Crunchy Frog]

89. I completely respect

you choice to not vote for Clark if he is the nominee, and yes there are lots of Dems who I also would not vote for (and I'm not talking about Dean).

With that being said, I nevertheless do not believe that these numbers are truly representative of the majority of Dean supporters on this board, and I stand by my claim that these sorts of polls are open to abuse by people who vote in them with the intention of making supporters of one candidate or another look bad.

And in case you didn't notice it, I was actually trying to defend Dean supporters here and not attack them. I'm very sorry if you took my post in the wrong way.

[BurtWorm]

22. It's possible Dean supporters are getting sick of this question

and are answering NO just to have a little fun with it.

[Atlant]

36. 'Ya think? ;-) (NT)

[boxster]

45. Considering how seriously many Dean supporters take most polls,

I rather doubt that they are answering "no", as that would encourage the negative perception of others.

[BurtWorm]

59. Which others?

[creativelcro]

24. That is assuming the NOs are for real (which I doubt)

[boxster]

34. Very true.

It could always be a bunch of Kerry, Kucinich, Clark, Gephardt, et al supporters who are trying to make Dean supporters on DU look bad.

[bowens43]

37. I promise you, my 'no' is for real.

[Atlant]

33. A bunch of us are tired of this sort of talk. (NT)

[bowens43]

49. That's misleading.

I will for one, will NOT vote for Clark but would gladly vote for any of the other candidates (holding nose if voting for Lieberman). So my vote IS transferable, just not to Clark. Maybe on election day the repugnance I feel toward the bushies will change my mind, but at this point I doubt it very much.

[BurtWorm]

21. Will we be asked this question every day until Clark loses the primaries?

Cause it might change from day to day. ;)

[creativelcro]

25. YES. Will ask every day! :)

[BurtWorm]

26. Maybe you should try an hourly poll

just to see how volatile we Dean people are. :hi:

[creativelcro]

23. sorry, I'm wondering how many Clark supporters voted in this poll.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. No, for the first time in my life I will not

I will stay home

[bowens43]

35. I would gladly vote for any of the candidates except Clark.

[TexasPatriot]

38. for every disaffected non-vote for clark

- and there will be, no doubt, some who really honestly at the end of the day would rather not vote for clark than oppose Bush (there were plenty of those last election) -

there is a soldier who will turn from voting bush to voting clark
and god knows how many republicans who will choose to 'protest' against bush because they feel comfortable with the idea that Clark will keep them safe. That translates down ballot in a BIG way.

This doesnt make us the party of the republicans, or the party of the military... it reinforces our classic democratic bigtent philosophy and its GOOD for our party.

I think a lot of the disaffected would come around in the end, especially if they used 'ignore' around here so they didnt attach the anger they feel at some of the Clark supporters to Clark the candidate (that works for all candidates). The candidate really is saying a lot of very good, very progressive, very positive things.

[CMT]

39. I won't vote in this poll, and I'll tell you why

First, I will vote for Clark if he is nominated--even though his supporters are turning me off daily.

Second, these polls are easily distorted. I don't put it past people who don't want Dean to vote NO they will not vote for Clark to make Dean supporters look bad.

Frankly, I worry about the vast number of Dean opponents on DU who daily do nothing but rip Dean if they will vote for Dean if he is nominated.

[AntiCoup2K4]

40. I'd vote for Clark before I would the two PNAC candidates

Both of whom are from the New England region and attacking Dean on behalf of the DLC.

[Lisa0825]

41. yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

add that to the 20 other times I have voted in the loyalty polls. Can I let these 10 yesses count for 10 days, so I can skip this daily nonsense?

[TLM]

47. Nope... if I wanted to vote for a war mongering civilian murdering...

conservative war hawk...I'd vote for Bush.


Clark is the only guy running for the dems that I will not vote for.

[MIMStigator]

48. Sore losers!

eom

[kerry-is-my-prez]

50. Wow! How many of you are actual Dems and how many Greens?

I had suspected that a lot of Greens and Naderites supported Dean but this is shocking!

[ludwigb]

51. I suspect there are Freepers involved

36% would not vote for Clark as it currently stands--I don't buy that for a second. It's not just Greeens--Dem Underground polls can be freeped.

[SEAburb]

52. The two polls are very telling

I guess it shows which candidate has attracted Dem party loyalist and which one hasn't.

I believe that when the Dean supporters get to see and hear more from Clark, he will win them over.

[Lisa0825]

55. previous similar polls had very different results

what you are seeing here is a very pissed off group of supporters, due to the constant bashing here. Plus, many of us stopped coming here at all because it was so nasty. So, this is NOT an accurate reflection. I am very confident that the vast majority of us are ABB all the way.

[SEAburb]

57. can you imagine what it will be like

if it is a two or three candidate race all the way to the convention.

[Atlant]

56. I vote on January 27th, and I'll be voting for Dean.

Sorry.

Atlant

[Atlant]

53. Unlike many of you, *I'M* not really anonymous here...

Unlike many of you, I'M not really anonymous here;
I'm willing to put my name behind my statements.

And anyone who wants to find out whether or not I'm
a REAL DEMOCRAT need only look as far as
http://www.opensecrets.org/ .

I assure you, I'm a real Democrat, just one who's
sick of loyalty oaths.

Atlant

[Rowdyboy]

54. Quite frankly

I don't believe many of these are really Dean supporters. I know there are a few NBD's but this result isn't rational. I believe there's at least some deliberate misrepresentation going on here. Hard to say in a venue where anyone can vote without IDing themselves.

[Capn Sunshine]

58. Your denial is interesting

If he was the nominee I would vote for Clark in a heartbeat. No contest.

[Rowdyboy]

60. Rereading my post, my comments were too vague

I think the vast majority of Dean supporters on DU would vote for Clark should he win the nomination. I don't think the numbers in this poll reflect reality. Merely reading the comments above would lead me to this opinion-some dislike Clark, but many, many more would support him.

I think many posters who are not Dean supporters are voting in an attempt to make Dean look bad.

There, that's clearer.

[bowens43]

64. How does refusing to vote for Clark

make Dean supporters look bad?

[Rowdyboy]

71. It implies that some Dean's supporters are the real DINO's

Democratic only if their preferred candidate wins. Otherwise, they'll take their marbles and go home. Obviously, if I felt that was the truth, Dean would not be my second choice and I would not defend him on these boards.

I understand that there are NBD's out there; that's fine. I just prefer to think that MOST of Dean's supporters are more dedicated to beating Bush than you. Perhaps I'll learn differently, but so far I'd say the NBD's are few in number and insignificant. The same few names show up time after time after time restating the same tired complaints against Clark. Its hard to take them seriously as Democrats. As Greens, Naderites, Socialists-sure, but not as Democrats.

[bowens43]

82. You're misreading.

We're not saying (at least I'm not saying) that we are NBD , we are saying we won't vote for Clark. I will happily vote for the Democrat who gets the nomination but I won't vote for Clark. It has nothing to do with my preferred candidate not getting the nomination. I just happen to think that Clark isn't fit to be president of the United States and IMO he certainly isn't fit to have the top spot in our party. If he's not a republican , he should have run as an independent, that's where he belongs.

[bowens43]

63. You're misreading the poll.

The no vote's do not mean NBD. They mean we won't vote for Clark. I have no qualms about voting for any of the other candidates. Most of us draw a line somewhere , I draw my line at the good general.

[lovedems]

62. I will vote for whoever gets the nomination and I am surprised on DU

to see the many NO votes. I don't know what has happened but 3 months ago, EVERYONE on this board was united in getting * out of the WH. Loyalty oath or not, I am a democrat first and a supporter of a candidate second. These no votes really suck if you ask me.

[SEAburb]

68. some people have lost sight of the big picture

Getting Bush out of the White House.

[lovedems]

70. Kind of makes me sick personally, but it's their vote.

The real disheartening part is, none of these guys are all that different in their policies.

[Mass_Liberal]

72. I am a Dean supporter and

to me every vote that isn't for the dem. nominee is a vote for Bush. No matter which of the 9 candidates that is. Period. Stop. .

[Crunchy Frog]

73. I believe that this is another poll

that is very open to being abused by people who are Dean opponents, and will click on no just to make Dean supporters look bad. While it's abundantly clear that there are some Dean supporters who will not vote Clark, I think they are much more in the minority than the responses to this poll would indicate.

I wish people would stop running these sorts of polls because they have so much potential for abuse by people who want to make the other side look bad, and can do it anonymously.

[goobergunch]

76. I voted no

However, I would happily change it to "Yes" if Pennsylvania lowers the voting age in time for the election.

[drfemoe]

77. Not "No"

HELL NO!!!!

[tigerbeat]

87. geez.

....i thought our job/goal was to get that usurping, traitorous jagoff out of the white house. and my two choices to do it are two firebreathers like howard dean or wesley clark? how freaking lucky are we?

i'm shocked that anyone would not happily vote for the general should the doctor not get the nomination. and i say this as a full-blown, thinks-he-walks-air deaniac.

really really strange.

[KaraokeKarlton]

88. Clark has no political record for people to look at

so there's no way of knowing where he really stands on issues and what kinds of things he'd actually do. Some people are VERY uncomfortable with the idea of voting for someone who has never held public office before. I'm one of those people. Seriously, how can we be sure Clark won't be just as bad as Bush, if not worse? We don't because we don't have anything beyond what he says to judge him on. Yes, he has a great military record, which makes him a good choice as Secretary of Defense...but President? I'm not willing to risk my vote for someone entirely untested. I won't vote for Bush either, but I can't, in good conscience, vote for Clark. Sorry. :shrug:

[Pithlet]

94. Well, we know for sure that Bush is bad

I would take a chance personally, just to get Bush out. If the choice is A. Bush or B. Dem candidate with no track record, but has made his political views known; to me, that is a no-brainer. This race is going to be close. Not voting is helping out Bush, no matter how you look at it.

[KaraokeKarlton]

96. And we don't know for sure that Clark won't be just as bad, or even worse

hence my refusal to vote for him.

Again, sorry, but I'm not one to take risks when so much is at stake. I don't play the lottery, either. :shrug:

[Pithlet]

97. There is a difference

between not being sure, and being certain. I could understand your position if the current president weren't such an abysmal failure. You'd really rather stick with a known failure who's ruining the country, then go with someone who could be better, because you don't want to risk the chance he MIGHT be worse? When there's no evidence that he would indeed be worse? It just doesn't make sense to me, I'm sorry.

I can understand your point about Clark; he's not the candidate I'm leaning towards. I share some of your uncertainty. But I will do whatever I can to make sure Bush is out. Better to give someone else a chance to succeed or fail, then keep a known failure in.

[regularcanoe]

90. belowstreetlevel.com

I couldn't vote for clark if he won. you know he's not even a democrat. i think it's silly that he would try and assert that he is.

[Qutzupalotl]

93. He is a Democrat.

See where he stands on the issues. Plus he voted for Clinton and Gore.

[NoPasaran]

91. Not only YES

But HELL YES.
Don't we do this every week?

[imhotep]

92. Hell no

I have worked too hard the last 4 years fighting for liberal causes to just throw it all away on a Neo-con.

[JPJones]

95. And you say Clark isn't a real Democrat

I hope that lots of Dems see this and see just how 'Democratic' the Dean movement is.

[CWebster]

98. This is intimidation

If you can't win the support of the voters, threaten them or question their loyalty, or attempt to embarrass them, or single them out or trash their hope. Bully them. Does that make you feel good about the way you have to insure support for your candidate? I am sick of it.

This is America, right?

You can point to the terrible monster we must all wage battle against, and then kick and spit on my hope and then expect me to align with you, when you are more likely to respond with Zzzzzz than confront any flaws in your constructed image. What if I am not enamored with your military images after protesting the war, and I am not afraid to look at the cracks in the carefully constructed persona? Why should I vote for someone who has no history or record in the Democratic party and hails from a mindset that is a terrible monster in itself, regardless of how they define their political identity?

Hopefully, I won't ever have to worry about this scenario, but until then I am going to endorse who I support 100%. And that means I don't appreciate the arm-twisting from anyone demanding that I transfer my vote as if it meant nothing.