Which candidate has the best health care plan?

[WillyBrandt]

I have no idea, to be honest. Which one does, and why?

[burrowowl]

1. DK

single payer or universal, like Europe.

www.kucinich.us

[Clark4VotingRights]

12. Another vote for DK's plan. Universal.

n/t

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. the better questionn is which candidate is mostly l;ikely to be

able to get anything done. who has the experience to work with a likely pubbie congess to make progress? the perfect plan is usless if it can't be enacted.

[DemBones DemBones]

52. "Shoot for the moon! If you miss, you hit the stars."

Ask for a little change and you get NADA. We should elect Dennis and show Congress we are serious about wanting change. Otherwise, it'll be the same old same old. Some Dem gets in and tries to do something right but the Pubbies beat up on him so he backs down. I am really sick of that game, aren't you?

[lapauvre]

59. DK isn't the only one.

Sharpton and Braun are also for the single payer system. It's the rest of them who are talking about "affordable" medical plans.

Affordable, for those too sick to work, in need of immediate medical attention, for their family's medical attention, who cannot now pay for it, will not be able to pay for the other's "affordable" plans, especially since none are putting caps on md's or pharmaceutical corps.

[maxr4clark]

2. Clark

According to an independent analysis, Clark covers the most currently uninsured for the second least amount of money.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. But in addition to people who are uninsured

there are people whose insurance is on the brink of totally unaffordable.

As I understand it, Clark's plan relies on tax credits for people above the Medicaid level. Well, as a self-employed person, I already get tax credits, nearly 100% of my insurance premiums, but it's still a huge burden on a month to month basis.

[Printer70]

47. Please cite links- facts are helpful

...in validating assertions.

[revcarol]

3. DK, of course...

who won't break the national treasury to get us universal health care.

[IndianaGreen]

5. I agree, Dennis has the best plan

It is time to start treating health care as a human right, not something that is based on wealth.

[AP]

4. Edwards.

It gets us from point A to point B (universal coverage) in a way that makes sense.

First of all, he's going to give everyone coverage today until age 25.

Just think, when those 25 year olds turn 26, there going to demand the program they've become used to.

I'll explain more later...got to go to bed.

[MercutioATC]

6. As a member of FEHBP, I vote for Dean's plan...

The fact that there's no exclusion for pre-existing conditions is just HUGE. I also really like the fact that, by simply expanding existing programs, we get the coverage we need with a minimum of legislative fuss.

[burrowowl]

7. But it is based on HMOs

private corporate profiteering. Eliminate the profiteering and over spending on Offense (woops! Defense) and like Europe, Americans will spend less on health and be healthier. We spend the most on health and are 37 th on being healthy.

[revcarol]

8. Furthermore, on examining the Dean plan,

I would be in the 10 million that wouldn't have ANY coverage, even inadequate insurance.

Choose the one where no one falls through the cracks..the DK plan.

Someone please post his plan, will you.(Computers are instruments of the devil and the devil is keeping me from knowing how to do this.)

[cryofan]

45. where are the cracks in dean's plan?

also, I heard that because Dean's plan is HMO based, it would call for unemployed or selfemployed low income types to pay 300-600$/month. That is no better than we have now!

[AP]

10. His big idea is an expedited appeals process when you're denied coverage.

People who have memories which extend more than a decade ask why the eff you even have to have an appeals process? What happened to the days when you got the treatment your doctor recommened?

[Enjolras]

13. Uh-huh

Edwards proposes no change to the privatized health care system, already by far the world's most expensive. Seriously, what do you think this proposal will do to our premiums and/or the level of coverage provided for the exorbitant prices we pay?

If Bush's prescription drug "benefit" is a bone to drug companies, Edwards' does the same for trial lawyers. No surprise there.

[AP]

16. Whazza?

Edwards is forcing insurance companies to provide a solid, well-regulated, low cost program for everyone under the age of 25. For those who can't afford it, medicare and medicaid will cover them. Once all the vulnerable groups are covered, Edwards is going to work towards taking the huge, guaranteed profits out of health care. Meanwhile, Edwards will be taking the money out of politics (lobbyists and CFR are his targets).

So, soon there will come a point when critical masses of people will be turning 26, and when big money doesn't have the grip on government that it has now, and then we will have the universal health care debate, and democrats will win, thanks to a huge segment of the public who will understand it as something that brings great value to society.

You throw in the phrase "trial lawyers" but I don't understand what you think its logical connection to Edwards's plan is. Care to explain?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. 18-25-olds are some of the healthiest people in the nation

and they can get existing insurance policies for less than $100 per month.

The people who are hurting are those between 50 and 65, who are considered "expensive" by the insurance companies but who do not yet qualify for Medicare.

[AP]

53. They're covered too.

The point is that people coming off the gov't insurance at age 26, whether they used the insurance or not are going to wonder why the hell they're losing their entitlement, and peace of mind, and they're going to understand why it's good for the economy that they had the flexibility and choices allowed by the low cost program. They'll be part of the political force to get universal health care.

[lapauvre]

57. Solient Green

for those over sixty five. Watch what you eat. Read ingredients carefully.

[DemBones DemBones]

48. Really! Why should you have to appeal to anyone to get

the treatment your doctor orders? Though I suppose I'd spend fewer nights at DU, I would actually prefer that my Blue Cross HMO would pay for all the medications my physicians say I need to take. Much as I love you guys, I'd rather sleep. The alternative (read: cheaper) medication they have me take doesn't seem to do a damned thing.

As long as we have insurers, it'll be like this because they don't like having to pay for people who have chronic illnesses (read: people who need medical care and medications.) News flash for them: We'd all be delighted to be in the "never sick" group -- any ideas on how we swing that?

Universal health care NOW!!!

[MercutioATC]

20. Incorrect. It's not all HMOs.

There are PPO and PPV plans too. Yes, they do involve private companies, but I really don't see single-payer getting through Congress any time soon. It's a plan that will get more people covered...that's what I want to see.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. "I don't really see single-payer getting through Congress"

unless the president uses the same tactic that Reagan used so successfully, energizing his base to bombard Congress with letters and phone calls. A little LBJ-style horse trading wouldn't hurt either.

I agree, though, that a pink tutu Dem who thinks that his job is not to upset the Republicans couldn't get such a bill through.

If we don't ask for single-payer, we won't get it. That's 100% certain.

If we ask for single-payer, we may not get it, but whatever we do get will be much more equitable than anything that's currently on the table from most of the candidates.

[Printer70]

49. Single-payer won't pass congress

Let's be realistic.

[windansea]

9. which candidate can really pass one?

for me?

[AP]

11. Edwards.

Go over to his web site and read what he has to say.

Kucinich wants the pie in the sky today. Dean wants something crappy because it can pass.

Edwards has the plan to get America from point A to point B within a decade.

If Kucinich were president, America would spend the next 35 years arguing over his plan. If Dean were president, we'd spend the next 35 years with a health care program that was crappy.

[revcarol]

15. Kucinich would phase in his program over 10 years.

and over 70% of the poeple want a universal single-payer health plan.
Let's bust our butts electing Democrats to the House, so that we have a Democratic majority.

http://www.kucinich.us Check it out.

[AP]

17. See post 16.

I'll add: Edwards's "let's protect the most vulnerable (kids and old people)" is playing exactly to America's deepest concerns. It's a very clever way to say to insurance companies, do the right thing, you're making so much money off the rest of us, you're going to have to do what's right for the vulnerable. That's happens immediately. It's the 26 year olds who will then drive the democratic movement for full coverage for everyone.

Edwards's plan is brilliant.

[diamondsoul]

54. Then it's not all that different

from Kucinich's except with Kucinich's we demand single-payer up front and fight for it.

The implementation plan he had up at one time showed a gradual phase in process beginning with infants up to 7 years old, I think(might have been 9 but as I recall it was single-digit age), and the elderly beginning with age 85, I think, in the first phase. (going totally off memory here since they see to have removed the implementation plan for some reason).

I believe each phase takes affect bi-annually, every other year a new group is added to each end of the age gap until they meet in the middle, insuring every citizen in the country. Seems to me the only difference is when the decision to go universal is made according to your description, plus we'd have to hope that there are enough 26 yr. olds screaming for it all at the same time. Call me kooky but I don't envision that happening.

[sandnsea]

14. Kerry - cost cutting AND expanded coverage

He covers all SCHIP kids federally so states can cover the disabled and other adults. He pulls out catastrophic cases to reduce premiums people already have. Lots of prescription drug and technology improvements that will reduce costs. He provides tax credits for small business to cover their workers. And he doesn't create a whole new government program for the uninsured, he just provides access to the already existing federal insurance. Nobody can bury this program by calling it socialized medicine or a huge new program of govt. handouts because it's not. That's the pragmatism I saw in it right from the start. It will work and it will pass.

[morgan2]

18. no question, kucinich has by far the best plan

kucinich and cmb are the only ones proposing removing the profit motive from health care. Anyone who has the slightest understanding of economics can figure out that the private sector will never provide health care for everyone, no matter how much money the government gives them.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

19. Removing the profit...

The best plan has to remove the profit.

TWL

[genius]

21. Dennis

There's no question

[no name no slogan]

22. Kucinich

as somebody facing imminent unemployment (and the loss of my medical insurance), DK's plan is the only one for me.

As of next month, I'll have to pay $350 per month for a basic Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan-- just for MYSELF. I do not qualify for individual medical insurance because of a pre-existing condition: one for which my medications alone cost $250+ per month. Even when I qualified for my state's own version of "medical insurance of last resort", I was STILL paying over $200/month for bare-bones coverage. That's a big chunk of change when you don't have a steady income.

Kucinich's plan ELIMINATES premium payments by imposing a 7% tax on employers to pay for full universal coverage. This 7% may be split between employers and employees, so that the burden can be shared in any way. However, seeing as most employers are already paying 12%+ per year for medical coverage, the 7% will actually be a REDUCTION in what they pay now.

Not only that, we would get the freedom of going to ANY doctor or clinic we want, as EVERYBODY would be covered by the same insurance. We'd also get dental and optical coverage, and also coverage for alternative medical treatments, too. All for much less money than we're collectively paying today for substandard care.

As Dennis has said, "we're already paying for universal health care, we're just not getting it."

[Desertrose]

23. I have to say Kucinich...

....to cover 100% is pretty good.

Peace
DR

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/universalhealth.php
"The Kucinich plan is enhanced 'Medicare for All' -- a universal, single-payer system of national health insurance, carefully phased in over 10 years. It addresses everyone's needs, including the 40 million Americans without coverage and those paying exorbitant rates for health insurance. This approach to healthcare emphasizes patient choice, and puts doctors and patients in control of the system, not insurance companies. Coverage will be more complete than private insurance plans, encourage prevention and include prescription drugs."

[KaraokeKarlton]

24. Dean has the best plan because his will PASS.

There are certainly plans that look better without considering how likely they are to pass, but the reality is this...

It's ridiculous to argue about huge health care reforms when millions upon millions of Americans are currently without coverage. Get those people into the system FIRST and THEN argue about huge reforms.

This is why Dean developed his health care plan as he did...because he wants something that will actually pass.

[no name no slogan]

27. Just like the Clintons plan "passed"?

Dean's plan is nearly identical to the one Bill Clinton proposed in 1993. The only people who supported his plan were the big insurance companies, because they would get the lion's share of the benefit. And that is also the major reason why it failed.

Small insurers hated the Clinton plan, because they were effectively shut out of the competition. Insureds hated the plan, because it still funneled massive amounts of tax dollars into the private sector, while still allowing the private sector the same level of control over our healthcare-- in other words, if you have money, you get care. If not, tough luck.

Clinton's plan failed because it DID NOT provide truly UNIVERSAL coverage-- not just "insurance" (which many people still can't afford), but true COVERAGE.

Jim Hightower asked Clinton about his plan after it went down to resounding defeat in the Democratically-controlled congress of the day. He asked why the President didn't propose a true universal-coverage plan instead of the mess he did submit.

Clinton's answer was very telling: "because I thought it (the Clinton plan) would pass".

A majority of Americans favor a universal, single-payer healthcare plan. It WILL pass if people put enough pressure on their representatives. We have the opportunity to really change the way healthcare in this country is run, and provide it for EVERYONE, regardless of ability to pay.

Why on earth would we settle for less, when we can get exactly what we want?

:shrug:

[KaraokeKarlton]

38. If you think Dean's plan is "just like Clinton's" then you haven't even

looked at it.

Who is the ONLY candidate who has essentially universal health care for the children under their leadership? That would be Howard Dean. He had to get Republicans to pass that, and they did.

None of the other plans will pass. And single payer? There is NO WAY IN HELL it will pass, period. Dean's the only one who has gotten a plan passed before. And even Clinton said there is no one who has done more for health care than Dr. Howard Dean.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. It's just like Clinton's in that it's a patchwork

even though it's made up of different patches.

[blm]

25. Kerry's is 100% doable. People get the same coverage as congress gets.

NOONE in Congress can vote against it. BRILLIANT.

His plan to take all the catastrophic ilnesses (over 50,000) out of the pool will automatically lower all our insurance costs at least by 1000.00 per year.

www.johnkerry.com

[MercutioATC]

26. Dean's plan uses FEHBP too...I agree that it has a great chance in

Congress...

[sandnsea]

55. No, he establishes a NEW program

"Establish a Universal Health Benefits Program (UHBP), offering a choice of private insurance plans identical to those for members of Congress and federal employees, at affordable rates."
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_policy_health_healthcareforamerica

This is going to be called a big new socialist program and it'll go down in flames. That's why Kerry's is better right out of the gate. No big new government program.

[HFishbine]

28. Would have to be

Carol Mosely Braun.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clark4VotingRights]

31. Issue kick

n/t

[LWolf]

32. Dennis Kucinich, hands down.

It's detailed. It's comprehensive. It's practical. It's not about insurance "coverage." It's about CARE. Anyone who has ever battled their insurance carrier/HMO to get treatment knows that that coverage and care are not synonymous. And it will cover 100% of America. Take a look:

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/universalhealth.php

The only candidate to come close to Dennis' plan is CMB.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

33. Kucinich..

http://www.justhealthcare.org/PDF/scorecard.pdf

There is a comparison of the plans.

Here is more information on DK's

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/universalhealth.php

TWL

[isbister]

34. Kucinich & Braun

Kerry's more apt to have a chance to pass.

[TexasSissy]

35. I think it's not the detail of the plan right now, but the philosophy and

character of the candidate, and a general commitment to the health care issue. Exact plans always change, so I don't go by the details during races.

Having said this, Clark's appeals to me.

[nancyharris]

36. I am not sure I can trust Governor Dean’s Health Plan

From the Burlington, VT Free Press:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/specialnews/dean/185.htm

From the Huston Chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2316370

Here is an interesting (although admittedly biased) comparison between the Health Plans proposed by Congressman Kucinich, Governor Dean and President Bush from Tribalmessenger.org:
http://www.tribalmessenger.org/columns/blogs/tivana/kucinich-dean-bush.htm

[ThirdWheelLegend]

37. 'Democrats' have come a long way...

That some support truly undemocratic ideas.

TWL

[corporatewhore]

42. Dennis Kucinich he will put us with the rest of the modern world

[revcarol]

43. And he has a way to pay for it.

Good man, Kucinich.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

46. Amazing how behind we are compared to other western countries

Aren't we like one of the only few modernized counties that doesn't have some form of UHC?

TWL

[Printer70]

50. Which candidate has the best AND most realistic plan

That would be Howard Dean. Sorry Dennis- but Carter and Clinton have tried what you want (even less) and have failed. Politics is the art of the possible.

[DemBones DemBones]

51. Dean's a realist alright, he proposes so

little change we may as well keep Bush. And all the people who are willing to accept just a little change are enabling all the corporate heads who fear the people waking up and saying "HEY! Why shouldn't be have universal health care like everybody else?"

Elect Dennis and RAISE HELL with anyone in Congress who won't go along with this plan. They'll vote for it if people demand it of them.

[Printer70]

60. So we can get slammed just like in the 70's and 90's

...3 decades is enough to learn that incrementalism is the only feasible path with getting all of America insured.

[Tinoire]

58. Kucinich. Dean's is laughable

I'm astounded that people are buying it. It's nothing more than a plan to get those who can afford it insured.

Not looking for insurance here- looking for health care.

[Tinoire]

56. You can compare them all here:

The ones who failed are (in order) Bush (absolute worse), Edwards, Kerry, Gephardt/Dean (tied), Lieberman (barely worse) - all received a "no" in all 8 categories

The ones who did better are 1. Kucinich, 2. Braun/Sharpton(tied to each other and practically tied with Kucinich- but Braun has no real plan to get from A-Z)

The categories are

1 Includes Everyone
2 Controls Costs
3 Takes Profit Out
4 Cuts Link to Employment
5 Choice
6 Full Coverage
7 Fair Financing
8 Just Transition
9 Simple to Administer
10 Uninsured Covered
(in millions - 2001 data)


http://www.justhealthcare.org/PDF/scorecard.pdf
Sources: Commonwealth Fund, Physicians for a National Health Program, AFL-CIO, Candidates’ websites
====

Here is the problem with Dean's plan in a nutshell (both of the extracts are snipped from the critique of plan section):

A report on health care reform from the
ADA’s President, Congressman Jim McDermott
September 4, 2003

Dean:
Basing the UHBP on this model, with no improvements in cost control, is a recipe for insurance but not for comprehensive, affordable health care.

Kucinich's was rated the best- for what it wanted to acheive and for having a workable plan to get there.

Kucinich:
Mr. Kucinich’s plan is by far the most comprehensive,
because it guarantees coverage to all Americans and
overhauls the health care finance system. It would
also do the best job of controlling costs among the
Presidential contenders’ plans.
The strengths of the plan are also the source of its
vulnerability—one group’s ‘cost control’ is another
group’s lower payment. This proposal would
probably face substantial resistance from influential,
well-entrenched groups that would expect to lose
under this proposal, such as insurance companies,
pharmaceutical companies and health care providers.
In addition, the plan is expensive, requiring a new
and large tax increase. Also, the prospect of a
government bureaucracy controlling health care
delivery could bring opposition.
Many of the concerns about this plan are unfounded.
Most employers would benefit under the plan because
health care would become less expensive—the 7.7%
payroll tax for health services is lower than the 8.5%
of payroll most employers currently devote to health
care. Health care providers would also benefit from
a consistent and reliable government-guaranteed
revenue stream as well as increased utilization of
health services by both the uninsured and
underinsured.

www.adaction.org/ADAHealthSecurityNews.pdf


=====
About Just Health Care (Just in case anyone wants to know who they are)

Just Health Care is the Labor Party's proposal for national health insurance: a public insurance fund and a private health care system with free choice of doctors, hospitals and clinics.

Instead of over 1,000 insurance companies creating mountains of paperwork and wasting our premium dollars, one insurance plan will cover everyone.

Think of it as a health insurance policy that provides guaranteed, lifetime health care coverage, whether you have a job or not.

How Does National Health Insurance Work?
Patients. For patients, national health insurance is simple. All U.S. residents will have a health insurance card which guarantees access to quality health care whenever and wherever we need it. Simply walk into a doctor's office, hospital or clinic of your choice, present your card and receive the care you need.

No money changes hands. Premiums, deductibles and co-payments are eliminated. You never receive a doctor, hospital or insurance company bill. You never wait to be reimbursed while haggling with insurance companies over what is and isn't covered.

Administration. The plan is simple to administer too. National health insurance eliminates the need for private insurance by creating one public insurance fund. The government collects revenues and state or regional boards reimburse doctors and hospitals for providing care.

National health insurance will keep costs in check by putting everyone in the same insurance pool, eliminating wasteful administrative costs and avoiding duplication of services, equipment and facilities.


Key Features of Just Health Care
Profit Out of Health Care
Whether it is the skyrocketing costs of traditional fee-for-service plans or the poor quality of managed care due to cutbacks in staffing, closing of hospital emergency rooms and denial or delay of needed care, our health is compromised under a profit-driven health care system.

As much as 30 cents of every premium dollar is squandered on enormous CEO salaries, shareholder profits, advertising and administration. The Labor Party calls for taking the profit out of health care.


Comprehensive Coverage
Many of us with health insurance pay out-of pocket for services such as dental care and prescription drugs and most of us lack sufficient coverage for a catastrophic or long-term illness. Nearly half of the 1 million Americans who file for bankruptcy - the majority with insurance - do so largely because of medical bills.

Just Health Care covers all appropriate care, including:

doctor visits
nursing home and long-term care
hospitalization
preventive & rehabilitative services
access to specialists
prescription drugs
mental health treatment
dental & vision services
occupational health services
medical supplies & equipment

http://www.justhealthcare.org/w_index.html

[ThirdWheelLegend]

61. stop discussing the details

It makes it too obvious!

Kucinich has the best plan hands down.

TWL