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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:45 AM
Original message
38 million uninsured Americans are just inconvenient “collateral damage”
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 05:55 AM by FrenchieCat
To the HCR Naysayers, cause for them, the plan needs to benefit all or in the case of the teabaggers, no one can benefit, and certainly not the measly 38 million, as well as those additional folks who would directly benefit from this bill!

In speaking directly to the "Liberal" Naysayers, or those who continue to rag, day in, day out about how nothing is better than something, first let me say....How Liberal of you! :sarcasm:

Perhaps Liberal naysayers should read more than naysaying opinion pieces from other "Liberals" willing to stand down this health care plan because they would prefer the status quo and don't have a problem with Collateral damage, i.e., 38 million who are currently uninsured and all of the millions that will directly benefit.

Meanwhile, I'll be fighting for the 38 million....cause I don't consider them as collateral, damaged or otherwise. Indeed, they are the very people that I am fighting to get health Insurance coverage. If I get something out of it, fine. If not, fine too.

House Health Reform Bill Expands Coverage and Lowers Health Cost Growth, While Reducing Deficits
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2973


House Health Reform Bill Would Help Ensure Affordable, Quality Coverage for Older Adults Aged 55-64


The House bill would address this affordability problem by providing premium subsidies for health insurance purchased through the new health insurance exchange by individuals who have incomes that are below 400 percent of the poverty line but too high to qualify for Medicaid. The subsidies would cover the remaining premium cost after applying the individual’s required contribution to the cost of the health coverage, which would be set on a sliding scale based on income. Individuals just above 150 percent of the poverty line (the level at which the Medicaid income limit would be set) would be required to contribute 3 percent of their income for premiums, with the required contribution rising to 12 percent of income for people just below 400 percent of the poverty line. Subsidy-eligible individuals would also qualify for significant help with the deductibles and cost-sharing charges under their insurance plans, which would reduce the out-of-pocket costs that individuals who purchase coverage through the exchange would incur.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2905

New Protections for Consumers

Regardless of your place of employment or the kind of coverage you have now, new regulations would take effect in 2010 that would go a long way toward curtailing the insurance companies' worst abuses.

Insurance companies could no longer deny coverage to people because they've had health problems in the past, nor could they charge hugely different rates for different groups of people (premiums could only vary by age, geography, tobacco use and family size).

The House bill bans recissions -- the insurance industry's habitual practice of collecting premiums until someone gets sick, and then digging through their histories for an excuse to cancel coverage.

Insurers wouldn't be allowed to cancel an individual's coverage for reasons other than failing to pay the premium.

Insurers would no longer be permitted to impose annual or lifetime caps on benefits.

Insurers that sell insufficient, cheapo plans that leave people vulnerable to medical crises would be required to disclose that fact to their customers.

All insurers would be required to disclose how much of their spending is on health care and how much goes to costs like overhead, advertising, etc.

The legislation (especially the Senate HELP bill) creates new tools for fighting insurance fraud and abuse.

One of the most significant of these regulations is in the House bill: a cap on out-of-pocket expenses. If the measure passes, individuals would face a maximum of $5,000 in out-of-pocket expenses a year, and families no more than $10,000. For poorer families, the limits would be much lower: $500 per year, for example, for a family making less than 1.33 times the poverty rate.

People Who Could Never Get Decent Coverage Will Finally Be Able To

So far, one of the great victories for the anti-reform movement has been convincing many small-business owners that health reform will put them under.

The reality is that small-business people, their employees, independent contractors, freelancers, entrepreneurs, part-timers and the "marginally employed" would be the biggest winners from the legislation if it passed as currently drafted. Small business owners and their employees -- as well as those other groups -- would, for the first time, be able to get decent coverage at a fair price, and if eligible, both employer and worker would be able to get extra help paying for it.

Under the current system, most of the largest employers in the country self-insure -- they pay their employees' claims directly and cut out the middleman.

Big firms that don't self-insure buy insurance on the large-group market, where risk is spread out over a large pool. Large-group plans tend to be more or less comprehensive and, relatively speaking, affordable.

But those forced to purchase coverage on the individual or small-group markets have little buying power and are routinely forced to pay budget-busting premiums for the worst possible coverage -- plans with high deductibles, caps on benefits and strict limits on what is and isn't covered.

This gets to the heart of the "public insurance option" -- the most contentious point of debate in the reform battle. It would work like this: The government would establish regional exchanges, or "gateways," that would be open to those who would otherwise be forced into the individual and small-group markets. These gateways would have relatively large insurance pools just like large employers -- and public programs like Medicare -- have now.

Within these large purchasing pools, people would be able to choose from among different insurance plans -- one a government-run "public option" and the rest offered by private insurers.

In order for private insurers to sell plans through the exchanges, they would be required to offer a standard set of benefits (which the public option would have to offer as well). They'd also be permitted to offer plans with more bells and whistles at a premium price.

For those enrolled in the public exchanges, the process would be quite similar to what employees in many large companies experience -- they would simply choose from among a variety of plans, with slightly different levels of coverage and costs.

Compared to the plans now available in the individual and small-group markets, they would pay a lot less for significantly better insurance (which, in reality, is what those "teabaggers" are protesting).
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/141916/10_awesome_things_that_would_happen_if_health_reform_passes/?page=2




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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Too many on this god damned board are willing to sacrifice a good majority of us.
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 06:13 AM by vaberella
Why? Because of their puritanical beliefs, conjectures, and persistent need to blame Obama for EVERYTHING. I'm fucking fed up with it. I'm covered by this health reform, millions like me and a few people on this bloody board would be covered by this reform. And just this reform. There is nothing to suggest this bill won't get better, it could get worse but it also could get better. But the people on this board---SOME----would rather sacrifice me and so many others, for the those three things.

I realize this isn't perfect....and I would want perfection. But this bill does a lot of good and I mean a lot of good. I'm not about to deny people access to all those things when I know I we can amend it in future, fight for it in conference and so on. To see these people saying what they say---is just rich. And to me, like Kucinich means nothing, at this point. Imagine if we didn't win those two house seats. Remember when you asked House or Governorship?! If we didn't win those seats we would have lost this bill. Then where would we be?

You know. Just for some perspective, some of these people are like Obama is not doing enough; he's not doing this or that and he's not moving fast enough. And yet when this bill has a chance at life to put some pressure on the wound----most of them then go, we're moving to fast. We need to slow down, this bill needs to be perfect. People are dieing on a daily basis, daily. Millions of them would be covered once this bill goes into affect and yet they don't want it. There's no winning.

I'd love a panacea, but right now we got this and it's good. It really bloody is. And I'd like to think that some people care enough to support it, but on DU.... Just like the freepers who are flipping out---many of them are of the same ilk from what I can see. They can join those clowns for all I care.

Edited for grammatical corrections.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. if it doesn't benefit them personally, or if it isn't their ideal, than fuck it, they will say!
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. See my post number 7, below about how my sister died because
of the broken system. Let them lose somebody dear to them like that and then they can come back and bleat and howl about their purist concerns.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. We compromised single payer away for the public option, and it in turn was emasculated
According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) study of the House bill, only 6 million Americans would be enrolled in the public option by the time it's fully phased in, in 2019. That's just 2 percent of the 282 million Americans younger than 65 (who aren't covered by Medicare). The CBO explains that the low numbers are in large part because the plan "would typically have premiums that are somewhat higher than the average premiums for the private plans."

http://socialistworker.org/2009/11/03/public-option-mirage
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. How could you "compormise" something that was never, ever on the table..
and never ever would be on the table. I mean really, single payer would have been 10 times more politically explosive than "public option." You could get maybe a handfull of Dems to support it, because they would be branded with the dreaded, "socialist" smear. For some reason, the Dems don't want to be called, socialist. Go figure.

I like you would love a single payer system, but I know that politically, it's not going to happen until we completely bury the republican party. That hasn't happened yet. With the help of the MSM, they always manage a resurrection. Look at how the media is pushing the meme that the two republican governors elected means that people voted against Obama. They totally ignor the evidence to the contrary.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Medicare is a single payer system; a system the GOP opposed since day one
HR676 was Medicare for All. We are all already paying for Medicare. People should have been given the option to go under Medicare before age 65.

Obama not only put single payer off the table, he also put the peace option in Afghanistan off the table as well.

The American people will suffer for the former, but Obama will pay dearly for the latter!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. I'm fed up with them,
also. They're in the way.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. all the anti-HCR democratic comments help Obama & Pelosi
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 06:26 AM by tomm2thumbs

they can say 'see, even our own folks aren't happy with us' and it makes them look more moderate. So let everyone who is against this bill yell long and hard.

You benefit things in the long run by giving the folks who passed the bill good cover. And it also is entertaining for me to imagine how many people on all the chat boards across the internet must actually be freepers up all night on Royal Crown Cola and cheezy puffs, trying to pretend to be 'concerned dems' but leaving just enough clues in their posts to reveal the truth.

I enjoy that.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. +1. Definitely here. Cheezy Puffs and cola. I love it.
Your right..you've earned a spot on my buddy list, like the OP.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. You're right ..they do
have their uses.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wow, Frenchie..Unsurprisingly, you're getting unrecs. At least I tried
to give you a rec. :applause:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Truth hurts.....
especially when pointing out hypocrisy!

Let the purist care more about what Insurance companies might get than about
how people will benefit! Guess they've made their choice, and would rather see
the insurance companies go out of business, than to see the folks get some long awaited help.

They are making their choice. Collateral damage is exactly what they don't really give a fig about.

Sad.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. They should be in my shoes. Or try the shoes of my sister who died..
because her insurance expired because after six months on short term disability for breast cancer treatment, her insurance paid for by her employer expired. Long story short, the disruption in her treatments cost her her life. She went to the welfare office with her head bald from chemo, to apply for medicaid and they gave her an appointment for screening, a month away. So, there was a 2 month disruption in her treatments. It was a ferocious infection that she was fighting that actually killed her, not the cancer.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Dear God. My heart goes out to you, your family and your sister.
This is what I'm talking about. This bill is not perfect, but damn it to hell it will do so much good for so many people currently in need. And these "purists" on this board are like perfection. Nothing would be perfect for anyone. Everything is subjective. If this bill were perfect for me, gym memberships would be paid for by the government. But it won't be. And this is the first round, we have conference and a vote by the bloody senate. There is a lot to do and I for one support a step to doing some cleanig. Even if it's not a full renovation. People like your sister shouldn't have to suffer as she did or are doing right now. I shouldn't have to ration my meds because I can't afford due to lack of insurance. And the Dems on here and that Kucinich..ugh. I'm too disgusted.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Not if *I* have anything to do with it. ;-) NT
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
10. And pro-life St. Kucinich, for all his alleged concern for the uninsured, voted NO on HCR.
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 08:19 AM by ClarkUSA
He also voted against the climate bill. DU Failers must be happy to have him on their side.

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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Well, Frenchie,
Your solution is obvious. Throw them all out of the party. Then you can move on to a new round of purification.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
12. The "55 - 64" clause applies to my husband and I directly and
it will mean after years of being unable to afford medical care, we'll have some relief. Because of pre-existing conditions and self-employment, the last insurance quote we got was nearly the cost of our first house! It's not a perfect bill, but it's opening the door. Once the masses realize it's not something "eeeevil," we'll be able to tweak it more to our liking. Someday we'll be closer to Medicare For All, I'm sure of it.
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm in the same boat (almost)
I'm lucky enough to have a job with insurance but really need to retire to help protect what is left of my health but cannot because I am not insurable without reform.

While the "55-64" provision helps I'm hoping that when it comes back they add the option to buy into Medicare for those over 55.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Me too. n/t
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
14. Well I have my own self absorbed self promoting symbolic point to make instead.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. Was Something Positively Done To Improve Health Care? Yes.
Can we build on this positive step in the future when a new generation of politicians are elected to office? Yes.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Yes we can!
Problem for some is that they thought the motto is "Yes we can do it all, and do it exactly how I imagine it, and we can do it now via a dictatorship, and until then fuck it all!"

Collateral damage doesn't mean a thing to them,
except for when people can be used to make their point.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. Don't confuse them with the facts. Their minds are made up. Its a failure.
For the first time dating from FDR, a president has successfully challenged congress to address this massive problem. They have not achieved what some have desired, but no one can deny that significant advances have been made to make the insurance companies more accountable. I would like to know just way aren't the full effect of these measures not taking affect until 2013? I suppose that I was asleep and missed this, but I would appreciate some input.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. a few reason why 2013, and not now.....and what will be activated as soon as the bill passes,
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 02:56 PM by FrenchieCat
that will not wait till 2013:

Why 2013? Because that was the only way to minimize the cost of the bill,
and it is the time needed to set up the programs, including a PO and the exchange,
without screwing it up (which if went wrong because it was being rushed, would give fodder
to Republicans)

What will happen from the time of the Bill's passage till 2013?

If the House bill becomes law, it would become illegal in 2010 for insurance companies to rescind existing health insurance policies to avoid paying for an enrollee's health needs. Funding for community health centers and preventive services would also increase, and a health benefits advisory committee would be established that would come up with an "essential benefits" baseline that must be part of any insurance package offered in a health insurance exchange.

Under the bill approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, discrimination against consumers with pre-existing medical conditions would become illegal upon the bill's signing, as would capping lifetime insurance coverage.
http://www.cleveland.com/medical/index.ssf/2009/09/health_care_reform_bills_inclu.html


It is impossible to put this kind of infrastructure in place on short notice without causing tremendous disruption to our health care system. I know because I have lived through four years of disruption caused by an attempt to consolidate behavioral health services, previously administered by seventeen agencies, into a single, privatized system under a single statewide entity. After three years of chaos, the state fired the insurance company managing the services. We are now starting over with another. Billing and claims systems don't work. Most providers have not yet been paid for their services.

Granted, I am convinced that for-profit insurance is unethical. Nevertheless, the arrangement might conceivably have worked more effectively if we had allowed sufficient start up time.

We cannot afford a national health care reform debacle. I think Ezra was not entirely correct. It makes sense to allow the federal government time to put functional systems in place.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/20/795135/-Why-is-the-Health-Reform-Start-Date-2013
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Several on this board has said as much. It's a complete failure. n/t
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's sad. Some are more concerned with saving money on Insurance than about helping the uninsured
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-08-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Sadly true.......
and so their feet should be held to the fire!
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