The last time we hit 10.2%...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

The last time we hit 10.2% people were really freaked out. Much more than today, or at least appeared to be more freaked out than people appear today.

Two changes since then:

1) In the early 1980s the stock market was some abstract thing for millionaires. Pre-401K, ordinary people did not look to the DOW (which measures/predicts only corporate profits going forward) as the barometer of where we are economically.

2) (a possible factor added on edit) The news media today is less interested in average people so freaked-outness may be under-reported.

3) Americans are more docile -- politically and in general.

Discuss

[Billy Burnett]

1. Yes. Many people's retirement funds are invested in the destruction of the US economy.

Parents and grandparents retirement investment growth are based on the shipping out of the kids and grandkids jobs.

[sandnsea]

2. People were as freaked out then as now

I really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

The biggest difference between the 80s and now is that people know the bankers are the ones who blew up the economy and that when you take $5 trillion out of the economy, it's going to take a while to fill that hole.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. The OP states people were *more* freaked out then

[sandnsea]

15. They were equally freaked out

People were no more freaked out then and we had skyrocketing inflation going on as well.

You're just looking for something to freak out over, it's what you live for. No clue why.

[tekisui]

3. Big news overshadowing it today.

And, it's been a long time coming. I think a sense of fatalism has set in, to a degree.

[Beacool]

4. I think that it hit 10% in 1983.

I was too young to notice it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. 3) the people who lived through the great depression were still around. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. +1 my correct friend nt

[treestar]

19. Right. And the 1983 recession ended, and people who remember that

are still around.

And nobody remembers widespread suffering in 1983 either. These recessions are not depressions, much as the drama queens would like it to be.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

23. The suffering I saw in 82-83 was at least as sharp as today

Homelessness did not exist in the public mind before that recession, and it never really went away since.

I am shocked to this day by things I saw in '83. Washington DC turned into a Hoovertown almost over-night.

Probably regional differences in play.

[sofa king]

46. Yep.

That year is an important one for me, because it's the year that I noticed hundreds of homeless vets suddenly turned out into the streets of DC. Reagan had cut funding for the vet homes and the mental health wards, and those people were simply turned out into the cold. It took me years to figure out what had happened, but when I did, I became a Democrat.

Eventually, I became friendly with some of those tragic, damaged people. Some of them didn't even know where they were.

That bastard, Reagan. I hope he's burning in Hell!

[treestar]

51. I never understood that to be because of the recession though

but from what you've cited, Reagan cut the funding. Claimed people liked or chose to be homeless. Asshole (Raygun).

[uponit7771]

22. yeap

[Another Bill C.]

6. Unemployment history here:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt

[high density]

7. The media has no clue about how to talk about the economy

They talk about the Dow and I'm guessing most people don't even know what that is. They talk about "points" when the only rational numbers are percentages. But numbers on a website easy to "report" on, so they'll continue to talk about the stock market in day-to-day terms as if all of the country are a bunch of day traders. (Having a 401k doesn't require one to monitor the stock market like this, in fact it's completely ridiculous.)

The problem is more about what I don't hear. I never hear anybody explain to us how these companies earn revenue in the future. Our economy is built greatly upon consumer consumption and at the same time the corporations do not want to pay any livable wages. Domestic cash flow is grinding to a halt. We can't buy all this stuff that they want us to buy if we don't have jobs. It seems like a crushing snowball of a cycle that leaves CEOs with a huge pile of cash and the rest of America (including long shareholders) with nothing.

[Oregone]

9. Everyone also thinks a supernatural 4 dimensional chess player will save them this time

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. You're right...the invention of religion in 1985 has been a disaster

:eyes:

[Oregone]

14. It was the reinvention, whereas you deify your politicians

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. Whatever that means

[Oregone]

17. Youll figure it out eventually. Its all chess, baby

[Aramchek]

25. I pity you. such bitterness must make life hard.

[Oregone]

26. Who's bitter?

I smile with pity myself when I post about such a ridiculous population. It is humorous and sad at the same time, but I'm surely not bitter about it


Are you projecting? Quite a biting reply may suggest such

[Aramchek]

31. you think you know just exactly what's going on,

but if you were in Obama's place, you would accomplish nothing.

and of course, it would be someone else's fault. not yours. it couldn't be that you have a rather limited perspective, could it?

[Oregone]

32. Now who is making presumptions?

Its a nasty habit, and again, all that seething anger behind your words could indicate that you are merely projecting. I am quite comfortable with my own perspective, mind you, but your insistence upon examining it may suggest that you should look inward for the source of your problems and irrationality--not outward.

[Aramchek]

33. quite the little psychologist, aren't you?

But when the Public Option passes,
I will be celebrating with the rest of the Democrats.

What will you be doing?
Crying in your beer because you didn't get your Single Payer Pony??

[Oregone]

34. No, but I may shed a single tear for the American people who will still be fucked

I already have my "Single Payer Pony", so it really isn't a personal matter with me or about my virtual boyfriend. Rather, just about good public policy. Its sad that the Democratic Party is going to be the ones to tie this anchor around their necks.

Enjoy your celebration of this reform. Everyone needs something to be happy about, I guess

[Aramchek]

35. are you Canadian or something?

[Oregone]

36. No

Are you Sri Lankan?

[Aramchek]

37. how do you have Single Payer then?

[Oregone]

38. Do you think its a birth right or something?

[Aramchek]

39. you said you already had your single payer pony,

so I assumed you were in a country that had that system

[Oregone]

40. First correct assumption of the day

Though, its not exactly a "pony". Its attainable and sound policy.

[Aramchek]

43. so where are you located? France? UK?

[Oregone]

45. Why is it relevant?

Canada actually. The weather is quite beautiful here

[Aramchek]

47. it explains why you would rather have no Public Option than the one we'll be getting

It has no effect on you.

Those with nothing to lose can risk everything on a long shot.

[Oregone]

48. Im not emotionally involved. I don't have Stockholm Syndrome.

I am also familiar with the US and international health policies. Maybe I do have a little perspective that is valuable for evaluating sound public policy.

[Aramchek]

49. Do you think the Insurance Industry should be dismantled immediately?

What repercussions would that have?

You might be able to envision the ideal,
but we have to get there from where we are at present.
That just can't happen all at once.

[Oregone]

50. That won't happen at all on the current course

It essentially has to happen--the overhead is crippling the country economically, as well as burdening the working class.

The quickest way from point A to point B is a straight line, and to be honest, this is no where on that straight line. There are other incremental measures, such as single-payer catastrophic (high-deductible) insurance, which would eventually lead there if the deductible was slowly lowered. Anything in the realm didn't seem to get any reasonable consideration. This is your chosen course. Bend over and enjoy it.

[Aramchek]

52. I can't take your insults seriously anymore. You don't even have a stake in this.

[Oregone]

53. Yes, those who aren't desperate and emotionally blinded have nothing to add

How could they ever arrive at something "uniquely American"?

[Aramchek]

54. you definitely have something to add, I'm just trying to get you to consider all the variables

then you would understand why single payer is not within reach just yet.

and why the public option is something that will help alot of people soon and help everyone in the long run.
something that can be built upon.

Not all Canadian Provinces had Single Payer to start.
But once those who didn't saw what they were missing, they demanded it.

[Oregone]

55. I never said it was within reach today

That would imply there exists a party of politicians that actually care about people.

But incremental steps to it are within reach. Mandating and subsidizing private insurance is just not an incremental step on the pathway there. That is precisely why the Democrats and organized labor rejected Nixon's partnership with the private insurers in the early 70s (which this is pretty much a clone of, aside from the negligible shiny trinket that is the watered down "public option").

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. There is about 100x the TV, movies, music, and of course the internet

Talk about distractions.

[AndyA]

12. 10.2% unemployment...1983...hmmm...

Ronnie Raygun was the President then, wasn't he?

Recessions:

1980-1983: Raygun
1991: Bush I
2001: Bush II
2007-?: Bush II

It seems deficits also increase under Republican "leadership." Guess that trickle down bullshit really doesn't work, perhaps they should try it again...who knows...maybe next time it will work?

(And destroy the whole world.)

[bluestateguy]

18. We hit 10.8% in November 1982

Two years before Ronald Reagan's 49 state landslide.

[1955doubledie]

27. Huh? Reagan first took office in what year?

:shrug:

[bluestateguy]

28. January 1981

Not sure where you are going with this.

[nsd]

30. bluestateguy is referring to Reagan's re-election, not his first election. (nt)

[marlakay]

20. We didn't have that many tv channels or other forms of

communication. I think people are so over stimulated from cells, texts, twitter, email, 24 hr news, blogs, internet, that its like traffic, if you live in the country and go to the city you notice it, but if you drive in it every day, you don't like it but you are used to it.

I think most people live in a make believe denial land until they lose job, a lot of money in stock market or health care and are sick. Until then we all wander around like zoombies going through the motions in our lives hoping the negative economy doesn't touch us. We feel sorry for others but don't voice a sigh of relief that it isn't us.

[brentspeak]

21. Americans have become increasingly numb to the non-stop destruction and decline of our economy

The offshoring/layoff movement began in earnest during the Reagan years, and has gathered momentum ever since. Horribly enough, the American people have "gotten used to" the never-ending knee-caps inflicted upon them by Wall St.

[Sinti]

24. +1 n/t

[Fire1]

29. Point #3: Absolutely the case. n/t

[Armstead]

41. Americans have been trained to be docile

I am old enough to remember a time when things that are accepted now would have been considered ougtrageous.

The degree of abuse of the workforce, the frightening consolidation of then economy through mergers and aquisitions, the hollowing out of the American economy and job base through "free trade"....etc. etc.

Since the morass of the 70's that culminated in the recession of the 1980's Corporate Ologarcghs and their allies in the media and political leadership have steadikly brainwashed Americans to Accept the Unacceptable.

We have been subject to Orwellian lies presented as truth ever since. "We're eliminating your job to save jobs." "We're eliminating competition to protect competition." "We're gong to lower your wagews to protect your standard of living." "We are going to lower taxes on the rich to help the middle class."

For decades this crap was force fed to the public from Corporate and Financial Oligarchs, and was echoed by the political elite and the media. As the Official Party of Big Business, the Republican Party did their job very well. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party leadership failed to provide an alternative message.

As a result, the majority either gave up and accepted the message of defeatism, or else they misdirected their passion to support the right wing. We're seeing the result today.

[depakid]

44. +1

Couldn't have said it better.

Transport a segment of the population in time and they'd be rioting at half of the deals that are considered par for the course these days.

[ej510]

42. I was 5 years old going on 6.