As far as the final version of the PO...

[ruggerson]

...none of us know what is going to emerge in the final bill. None of us.

Various stories about what Obama may or may not be advocating at this hour are not much more than idle print gossip.

Various pronouncements from the WH denying or confirming those stories are not much more than public relations posturing.

To argue endlessly about this nuance or that as reported in the media, or this or that statement from the WH, before a final bill emerges, is kind of E channel frivolous entertainment, but it is certainly not serious discussion about the merits of the various proposals.

Nobody knows how this is going to play out. What we do know is the various possible forms the final version of a public option may take, if there is one.

I'm impressed that the Dems (both the Congress and the Administration) have actually taken us this far down the road towards some kind of meaningful reform.

That's the real story. The fact that this is actually happening.

[Clio the Leo]

1. best op of the day

and it's not even noon!

well said. took the words out of mouth.

[MarjorieG]

2. Getting healthcare legislation with a narrow margin of available votes, at all, becomes instructive

to all those who have sweated every twist and proclaimed doom. Obama has always wanted a public option, period, despite media efforts and a Congress needing to get elected from people watching that media. We don't call it legislative sausage-making for nothing!

[patrice]

3. When "a starving cannibal" has a gun on you, you don't unilaterally disarm.

They have to protect their bargaining positions. That said, triggers and an opt-out are NOT nuances.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. arguing about the unknown may be frivolous, but...

arguing about the unknown may be frivolous, as a personal activity, but the broader level of suspicion and emotional intensity on the left plays a meaningful role.

Had the left-o-sphere's top priority been being 'fair' to the administration and waiting to see what developed we would be screwed.

Much of the progress we are seeing has arisen from lefty reaction and over-reaction. The WH and some congressional leaders were surprised when progressives from every corner drew a line in the sand at a public option.

Take the current flap over whether the White House is favoring a trigger over an opt-out... nobody knows for sure, but it doesn't follow that freaking-out is incorrect.

If the story is utterly wrong and the WH considers a trigger unacceptable then there is little downside to the left pitching a fit over a trigger.

But if the White House IS favoring a trigger then pitching a fit over a trigger is potentially vital.

Giving power the benefit of the doubt is a losing strategy in almost all variations.

And the insane wheel gets the grease. I have read a lot of OPs here that were clearly over-the-top but had to acknowledge that "I will not vote for Obama again if there is a trigger" is, as something someone says on the internet, likelier to influence policy than a more fair-minded alternative.

[patrice]

5. Wise words Kurt_and_Hunter. I just hope people are pitching a fit on the phone.

Not just on the internet to turn off potential, though perhaps somewhat naive, support.

[FrenchieCat]

6. I think I know how Health Care Reform will play out......

First, I will wager that there will be a Public Option in the final Senate bill....
and it will, more thank likely, be a robust Public Option.....not a trigger....

But let it be noted that I'm not talking about the bill that has to get voted on to get INTO conference;
I'm talking about the one that COMES OUT OF CONFERENCE.
The one that needs a cloture vote of 60,
and then a majority vote of 51.

I believe that Obama's strategy is to get a bipartisan vote for the initial Senate bill,
without a lot of controversy even if it doesn't have everything that progressives demand
in that bill....

Get it to conference...where a Robust Public option will be inserted into the final bill,
and then get that bill back on the floor for a 60 senator Cloture vote.

Once that is done, all the senate bill w/t a Robust PO will need is a 51 majority vote to pass it.

I think that is why Pres. Obama isn't as concerned as to what the initial Senate bill looks like....
cause he doesn't plan on using his powers until the bill is in conference.....
because that is where it will matter....what ends up in the bill.