Ezra Klein (WP) On ALL THE FLYING BULLSHIT Re: The PO

[Beetwasher]

A little sanity...or not:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/10/white_house_to_reid_we_hope_yo.html

--snip--

Within the last week, Chuck Schumer moved from talking to various senators about a national public option with a state opt-out clause to actually conducting something of a whip count on the proposal. His team found that a number of moderates didn't love the idea, and might vote to strip it on the floor, but it wasn't enough to push them toward a filibuster. At about this point, Harry Reid began sending out some feelers of his own, and the response was positive enough that he warmed to including it in the bill.

Then Max Baucus held a meeting.

Here, stories begin to diverge. Depending on who you talk to, Baucus either held a routine, informational meeting telling the Senate moderates and members of the Senate Finance Committee what's going on, as he's been doing fairly regularly, or he held a meeting in which he tried to rally Senate moderates to change Reid's mind. Or maybe there's no difference between the two. The first to really speak out after the meeting was Sen. Ben Nelson, and, as one staffer pointed out, Nelson didn't need Baucus to remind him that he was opposed to a national public option. Soon enough, Olympia Snowe was also making firm statements against the public option, and threatening a filibuster.

On Thursday night, Reid went over to the White House for a talk with the president. The conversation centered on Reid's desire to put Schumer's national opt-out plan into the base bill. White House officials were not necessarily pleased, and they made that known. Everyone agrees that they didn't embrace Reid's new strategy. Everyone agrees that the White House wants Snowe on the bill, feels the trigger offers a safer endgame, and isn't convinced by Reid's math. But whether officials expressed a clear preference for the trigger, or were just worried about the potential for 60 votes, is less clear. One staffer briefed on the conversation says "the White House basically told us, 'We hope you guys know what you're doing.'"

--snip--

This interpretation makes more sense to me than O is 'pushing' the trigger. But I guess we'll see. One thing for sure, the misinformation, propoganda and outright bullshit sure is flying fast and furious.

[Captain Hilts]

1. We elected the president to guide this debate, not follow it. nt

[Beetwasher]

2. Empty Phrases Mean Nothing

But go ahead and spout them anyway. The fact is, with all the bullshit flying, we don't really have a clue who is doing what. Don't believe half of what you hear and none of what you read.

[janx]

3. TRUE!

This was to be expected. The closer it comes to a vote, the more media excrement will fly.

[Captain Hilts]

4. I've worked with politicians. I've helped frame debates. Trust me, I know. nt

[Beetwasher]

5. No, I Don't Trust You

Why should I? Because you say so? I'm the queen of England. Trust me. :eyes:

You've said nothing to "trust" you about. You've spouted an empty, meaningless phrase that means absolutely nothing.

[Captain Hilts]

12. So far, Reid, Baucus, and Snowe have held more sway than they should.

[Beetwasher]

19. LOL! Um, They're Writing The Fucking Bill

Obama will get involved much more heavily in conference, as he should.

[DrToast]

6. Let's put it this way. Nobody wonders where Rockefeller stands

Now can you say the same about Obama?

He says he supports a public option. Okay fine, but his support seems pretty lukewarm.

[Beetwasher]

7. Yes, He's ALWAYS Said He Is For A PO

He's not writing the legislation though. And he shouldn't.

[geek tragedy]

8. he supports it, but doesn't want it in the Senate bill.

I guess he was for it before he was against it.

[Beetwasher]

9. SAYS WHO???? An Unnamed Source????

The WH, today:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/23/796335/-White-House-again-voices-support-for-public-option

Man, you people are suckers. Just spout any crap you want, claim an unnamed source close to the WH said it, and you eat it up and whine like children.

[joeycola]

18. So, what was preventing the Pres from stepping out to say he would FIGHT

FOR A STRONG PUBLIC OPTION?? Instead we get wishy washy crapola from his No. 2 man!!

[Beetwasher]

20. It's Called Politics

He's letting Congress do their fucking job.

[joeycola]

24. I call it weakness.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

39. You're always accusing the President of "weakness" and I

reject your narrow little whiny view.

[janx]

27. He has always touted the public option.

He hosted many town hall meetings, explaining it in detail.

[Whisp]

32. but that so..... lukewarm of him...

:eyesroll:

[janx]

34. Indeed.

He showed no passion, no commitment. ;-)

[joeycola]

35. That is true.

[Whisp]

36. maybe you are watching a different Obama

I see plenty of both in him.

or do you want his eyeballs to pop out of his head while strangling some of his more vocal opponents right on camera? that kind of passion?

what kind of passion do you mean?

[janx]

37. I was being sarcastic.

Hence the ;-)

[Whisp]

38. hee hee. ok

:blush:

I just heard 'lukewarm' on tv newsies a couple times in the last half hour or so...
geee, coincidence?

[janx]

41. It's amazing the way that people parrot each other.

George Orwell wrote a famous essay about that: "Politics and the English Language."

Don't be embarrassed! :hi:

[geek tragedy]

42. He also promised to fillibuster any bill with telecom immunity. nt

[Captain Hilts]

17. FDR's White House wrote legislation and introduced it through Sen. Robert Wagner of NY.

So'd LBJ.

You want something done in DC, you do it yourself.

[Beetwasher]

21. Good For Him! Clinton Tried That W/ HC, How'd That Work Out?

I guess time is static for you and things never change so everyone should do things exactly the same as they did 70 years ago. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

14. Exactly. Yes, the prez supports the PO. But how much? nt

[Beetwasher]

16. However Much I'm Sure It Will Never Satisfy Some People

How many angels dance on the head of a pin? :eyes:

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CreekDog]

10. The trigger is not a public option

It simply means we are NOT getting the public option as part of this process.

Negotiating against yourself undermines rather than advances your goals. :grr:

[Beetwasher]

11. Blah Blah Blah

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/23/796335/-White-House-again-voices-support-for-public-option

I'll take the public statements from a non-anonymous WH spokesperson of some unnamed anonymous source any day of the week.

You? Not so much I guess.

[CreekDog]

13. What about blah?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/23/796365/-TPMDC:-Obama-Pushing-Trigger

[Beetwasher]

15. That's The Same Unsourced Crap

That you love to slurp up and regurgitate and then whine about.

[CreekDog]

23. Oh please

It's not as though I said the report was 100% true, but I have big concerns if it is.

[Beetwasher]

26. IF It's True

Big if. Why at this point would you give any creedence to any of this crap after all the bullshit and misinformation we've seen? Seriously?

[CreekDog]

30. Because if it's false, then working to stop it only helps the public option

and if it's true it helps us bolster the public option in light of important opposition.

so it doesn't hurt to act as if the public option is in danger but not acting when it actually is does nothing to save it.

that's why.

[Beetwasher]

31. I Never Said To Stop Applying Pressure, So Your Point Is Moot

But we need to realize that there is mega amounts of bullshit and misinformation that is PURPOSELY being peddled. You should give it no creedence at all, that doesn't mean stop applying pressure.

All this doom and gloom crap can be demoralizing to some and have the opposite effect. Ignore the bullshit and keep up the pressure.

[joeycola]

28. Liberal Groups Take Direct Aim At Rahm, Demand White House Take “Stronger Stand” On Public Option...

Forum Name General Discussion: Presidential
Topic subject Liberal Groups Take Direct Aim At Rahm, Demand White House Take “Stronger Stand” On Public Option
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8712467#8712467
8712467, Liberal Groups Take Direct Aim At Rahm, Demand White House Take “Stronger Stand” On Public Option
Posted by babylonsister on Fri Oct-23-09 05:03 PM

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/liberal-groups-take-direct-aim-at-rahm-demand-white-house-take-stronger-stand-on-public-option /

Liberal Groups Take Direct Aim At Rahm, Demand White House Take “Stronger Stand” On Public Option

In recent weeks, liberal groups have largely refrained from directly pressuring the White House on the public option — even as there’s been lots of grumbling behind the scenes that Rahm Emanuel is the leading force within the White House trying to trade it away in exchange for compromise.

No longer. A coalition of liberal groups is now openly calling out the White House, demanding it take a “stronger stand” in support of a robust public option — and in an unusual move, the letter is specifically targeting Rahm and demanding he make it happen.

A source sends over a letter signed by several dozen leading liberal groups — including MoveOn, the Campaign for America’s Future, the American Federation of Government Employees, the NAACP, the Progressive Congress Action Fund — that will be sent to the White House today:

Dear Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel:

We, the undersigned alliance for a robust public option, write to request that President Obama heed the will of the people and the organized progressive grassroots and take a strong leadership position in support of a robust public option. The public has spoken and the majority of members of Congress have spoken: Health care reform must include a robust public option…

The House has shown leadership by moving forward health care reform that includes a robust public option. We respectfully ask that the Office of the President take a stronger stand on a robust public option in order to enact true health care reform this year. We request a meeting with you at your earliest opportunity to further discuss this matter.


That’s pretty confrontational; it’s questioning Obama’s commitment to the public option and demanding that he show stronger leadership. The decision to call out Rahm is also suggestive, since he is widely seen on the left as the main voice within the White House pushing to trade away core liberal principles for moderate support and calling on liberal groups to refrain from training fire on their own.

[Beetwasher]

29. Yeah, So? Good For Them!

No one said let up the pressure. :shrug:

What's your point?

No one knows for sure what's going on behind the scenes, least of all, you.

[joeycola]

33. LOL

[Cha]

40. They know nothing but talk like

they know everything.

[joeycola]

43. Oh, I am sure you know a few things. te he.

[Cha]

45. Yeah, you got that one right..

[vaberella]

44. Yup...that's why I'll listen the real thing than sources or secret staffers. n/t