So what's the problem?

[SidneyCarton]

While I don't necessarily see myself as an Obama "cheerleader" per say, I freely admit that I am currently satisfied with much that the current administration is working on, and have to admit I'm a little stunned with the degree of vitriol I see getting spewed in all directions here. (Yes I realize vitriolic name-calling is a DU tradition, I'm not quite that naive.) So I have to ask:

Why exactly are y'all pissed off?

and...

What is it exactly that you were expecting instead?

In all honesty, I'm not questioning your right to be pissed off, I would assume that the pursuit of unhappiness is as sanctified as its opposite, I'm just trying to figure this mess out.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. You have to imagine what could have been!

Obama is doing a terrific job and he can't build Rome in a day.

Just think McCain/Palin

[Oregone]

2. I think what initially pissed people off was sacrificing good policy in the name of bipartisanship

This started early with the stimulus bill and has continued beyond. Allowing the corporatist to influence policy when their ideas have failed consistently for decades, most notably in the last 8 years, seems ludicrous. It is unknown whether there is a Taoist belief that bipartisanship magically bestows goodness to a nation that policy cannot, or if it is being used as an excuse to not pass progressive policy. But it most certainly pisses people off to see them given great influence when voices for more Keynesian stimulus, more comprehensive health reform, more adequate climate change initiatives, and the with drawl of troops from combat zones are being shut out.

Its a pattern that tends to get under people's skin, right or wrong. The Obama admin has done a great job mending fends abroad and strikes a nice chord from time to time, but there are large issues, that, well, have advanced without much influence accepted from the left.

[SidneyCarton]

8. Bipartisanship is certainly no panacea.

I think the hope was that, could a minimum consensus be reached, it would provide the foundation to further consensus that might break down the partisan gridlock. As this would have been a universal good, (things would have been easier to fix, do, etc...) I think it was decided upon to not come out of the gate swinging. It was admittedly unsuccessful, but I can understand the reason for trying.

[SpartanDem]

21. How much really been sacrificed?

outside a few provision of stimulus package. The GOP has been irreverent to the healtcare debate, this has been an internal fight between different factions in the party and the same is true for the climate bill

[high density]

3. The problem is absurd expectations

Some DUers demand a left version of Bush and Obama isn't that guy. I do wish congress would be more on board with the Democratic agenda, but it seems they may have finally seen the light.

[Oregone]

10. Next time, they shouldn't expect progressive change with anything shy of 90 Democrats in the Senate

And if that doesn't look like its going to happen, just stay home. Blah

[Enrique]

4. you're exaggerating the "vitriolic namecalling"

people rarely call Obama any name whatsoever, let alone vitriolic. Keep in mind what was ROUTINELY said about Nancy Pelosi.

Compared to other dems, Obama gets treated extremely gently.

[SidneyCarton]

6. The vitriolic name calling in question is between DU'ers...`

Not in reference to the treatment of President Obama.

[DrToast]

5. Who are you talking to?

What an odd post.

[SidneyCarton]

7. I am talking to the people who are (unlike me) pissed at the President.

If the post was odd, it was because I was attempting not to post flamebait on a flamey subject. (kinda like pogo-sticking in a mine field)

[treestar]

9. People react immediately to media framing

They let the media push and pull them. Without looking into facts for very long, and based on very few facts and some media mudslinging, they will jump to the conclusion that Obama has "sold them out" or the like.

[Dr Fate]

13. Not just media framing, but 10 + years of DLC,Blue Dogs & "centrists" actually selling us out.

Media framing may play a part, but learning from history may have something to do with these perceptions as well.

A DUer may look at how "centrists" caved on the war, caved on Bush's tax cuts, caved on Republican crimes, etc, etc. and come to the conclusion that it could happen again.

They may end up wrong, but I cant blame them for being cautious & untrusting.

[treestar]

28. OK, but their caving at that time was at least explainable

On the war, for instance - the country was so hysterical about the threat of terrorism - they could have been doing what they thought the people wanted.

Now they can have more confidence that the voters are not warmongers afeered of terra.

[JuniperLea]

22. Bingo

Ring in the nose syndrome.

[Dr Fate]

11. People are worried that they will not get a strong public option.

But I'll bet you already knew that.

Having said that, I do see some positive signs that we will get something better than what they were shoving down our throat a few months back.

I thank the progressive "whiners" for that, not the "keep your powder dry and see what happens" crowd.

[SidneyCarton]

15. Fair enough, but I also see in such reactions from the left an unfortunate combination

of ignorance of the legislative process, coupled with a saturation of 24-hour-"news" coverage, which makes every possible consideration, or possible development in negotiation (regardless of its actual likelihood or importance) into an issue of massive proportions. Everything becomes cataclysmic, leading to endless outpourings of punditocratic nonesense, and vitriolic outrage.

I wonder sometimes if our relationship with the media hasn't become a little Pavlovian, with them ringing the bell and us frothing at the mouth on cue.

[Dr Fate]

17. I think you make good points.

Assuming the worst could be a Pavlovian response-but these days assuming the worst might just be a rational response or a defense mechanism that should be expected...

It's kind of like the average voter assuming that "all politicians are liars"- are they reacting to media, or historical facts known to them? Sure, it's a broad brush, but maybe they are simply on to something....

The best possible scenario is for Obama & DEMS to prove them all wrong. I hope they do.

[SidneyCarton]

23. Assuming the worst certainly was a logical reaction under Bush II

It is understandable that such habits will be hard to break, and will likely require definitive proof that they are no longer necessarily justifiable.

[Dr Fate]

26. Also a logical reaction as to "centrist" DEMS who had Bush II's back on the major issues.

Dont look now- but many of the "Blue Dogs", "DLCers" "centrists", etc- who went along with Bush in the most damaging ways are still major drivers here.

Remember- these are the guys who are associated with attacking anti-Bush II DEMS as "far left kooks" on one hand, while supporting Bush on major issues on the other hand. Guess who turned out to be correct and who turned out to be 100% wrong?

Many DEMS who actually were correct on the issues are saying "I still dont trust these centrist guys" instead of shrugging their shoulders and saying "What's the big deal here?"

I think they might be justified in that thinking.

Like I said, the best scenario is for Obama & DEMS to prove these naysayers wrong in a big way. I hope they do.

[SpartanDem]

19. You're right a lot of it is ignorance and media over saturation

the problem is a lot DU'ers may follow politics, but have more passion than knowledge about the political process. Too many seems to fly off the handel every time the messaging isn't tailored to the base of the party or believe that unless you're publicly calling your opposition assholes that you're not really fighting. Not understating that the majority of Americans consider such things distasteful. That passion also means too often people overreact to rumors and innuendo, I can't remember how many times I seen DU blow up over some speculative report on for it not to be true hours later.

[kenfrequed]

20. I'm sorry

But when the bluedogs and DLC started dancing to the "But America is a center-right country" tune many progressives took note.

Many of us progressives actually track the legislative process carefully and have gotten screwed by it before. Stating that those of us expecting the worst are somehow ignorant makes NO sense considering the number of times we have been cut to the quick on bills.

Noise and clammor are required in a proper democracy. If we all played nice and said "Well I just know Barack is going to do the right thing, and we have no reason whatsoever to express ourselves or show any anger at all" I am sure Max Baucus would be having a much better time of it.

[SidneyCarton]

24. Clearly not everyone who is displeased is ignorant, I apologize if it appeared I was broadbrushing.

Yet I have seen (and I have no doubt you have as well) an astonishing number of posts in which DU'ers have been critical of Congress, or the President for doing what the Constitution, or legislative custom determines they ought to do.

There was a notable post several weeks ago where one DU'er advocated the President passing Medicare for all as an Executive Order. Forget the fact that legislation is the prerogative of Congress and that Executive overreach was one of the biggest problems in the previous administration, all abuses seem to be justified when "our issues" are the ones being championed.

The noise and clamor is fine, but I think you would agree, that such things are far better for democracy when the noisemakers know what they're talking about. Otherwise we end up with a lot of "sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[Fire1]

25. And there is certainly an abundance of "sound and fury,

signifying nothing." Which is probably why many don't post as much.

[Dr Fate]

27. +1- fantastic analysis. n/t

n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. I'm very upset about the DVDs he gave Gordon Brown.

The Greek columns he had at the convention.

Rezko, Rezko, Rezko.

And he's done absolutely nothing about chemtrail abatement.

[SidneyCarton]

14. Dont forget ACORN.

Damn Squirrels, they hate us for our freedoms you know.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. There are relatively few complaints about ACORN on DU.

Our crazy ass paranoid nonsensical complaints are totally different from those other crazy ass paranoid nonsensical complaints.

[Cha]

18. You may not be a "cheerleader" per se

but when I see your name I know whatever.. is going to be reasoned.