White House says Obama won't pull US out of Afghanistan

[KansasVoter]

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama won't walk away from the flagging war in Afghanistan, the White House declared Monday as Obama faced tough decisions — and intense administration debate — over choices that could help define his presidency in his first year as commander in chief.
The fierce Taliban attack that killed eight American soldiers over the weekend added to the pressure. The assault overwhelmed a remote U.S. outpost where American forces have been stretched thin in battling insurgents, underscoring an appeal from Obama's top Afghanistan commander for as many as 40,000 additional forces — and at the same time reminding the nation of the costs of war.

<snip>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091005/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_afghanistan

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Perpetual war.

:woohoo:

[KansasVoter]

2. Meet the new boss.......

[earth mom]

3. Same as the old boss.

Told ya'll so during the primaries.

:grr:

[IndianaGreen]

8. sight!

Buyer's remorse.

[Enrique]

10. so did Obama

he said during the primaries he was going to escalate Afghanistan.

[IndianaGreen]

15. He also promised universal health care during the primaries and he opposed mandates

We were never told that some pigs were more equal than others, as Orwell would say.

[Cha]

18. Link for the "promised universal health care" link?

Not that I don't trust those who Fail Push.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Did you sleep during the primaries?

:eyes:

[Cha]

21. Just as I thought.. you have

nothing.

[IndianaGreen]

25. Obviously you forget the one debate between Obama and Hillary

in which Obama attacked Hillary for supporting mandates. In his speeches in Indiana prior to our primary, Obama spoke of universal health care, covering everyone.

[inna]

51. i don't remember if he actually promised "universal health care" during the primaries

- actually, it's a good question: did he or did he not use the actual term "universal health care"?

- but he most certainly ran ads against Hillary's idea of individual mandates: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6510742&mesg_id=6511074

[Clio the Leo]

38. and I want a link to.....

.... the "no longer wants universal health care" claim.

'cause I SWEAR I heard him say it .... AGAIN ....... about 7 hours ago. ;)

[TheBigotBasher]

30. He never proposed universal health care

but he did say he opposed mandates.

Fine, but he is delivering the first major health care reform in history - something that was not the top of any other candidates agenda.

[IndianaGreen]

34. Excuse me? Hillary supported universal health care

Kucinich supported single payer, as did Mike Gravel.

[Cha]

48. So?

[Cha]

47. I know he didn't but that doesn't stop the lies does

it? I know he opposed mandates, too..and who knows maybe we won't have them?

[jeanpalmer]

60. It won't be major healthcare reform

unless he at least delivers single payer. Anything short of that, especially mandates, is a step backwards.

[dionysus]

73. so a public option would be worse than what we have now?

:crazy:

[jeanpalmer]

58. That was his first mistake

Totally idiotic statement.

[Cha]

17. You told us fucking shit and you're

still spouting it.

[earth mom]

61. So War is Peace, right?

:puke:

How is continued War in the Middle East ok'd by Obama any different than * & Co's warmongering?!

I'd like to see you even try to justify Obama's warmongering and say it is any different that * & Co's warmongering.

Just fucking try.

[CakeGrrl]

20. You must have missed his discussions of Afghanistan during the primaries

He said he'd start pulling us out of Iraq and increase efforts in Afghanistan.

And that was based on intel that Bin Laden and company are established in Afghanistan, as they always were - never Iraq where Bush lied us into occupation.

This is consistent with his stance during the campaign, and if the intel indicates that strategy needs to change, I'm guessing he and his advisors will act accordingly.

If you simply never supported the President and still don't, just own up and say it, but don't ignore what was actually discussed during the campaign and act like some sage prophet who knew it was going to turn out like this.

To act as if he promised immediate withdrawal from and peace in Afghanistan is ignorant in light of his repeated statements.

[IndianaGreen]

26. bin Laden is in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan

in the tribal regions.

[CakeGrrl]

31. My error on bin Laden's location

However, I stand by the President's statements on Afghanistan during the primaries. He repeatedly stated the plans for Iraq and Afghanistan troop levels.

[TheBigotBasher]

32. Do you know that as a fact?

Do you have contact with him? Or is this like the McCain bull where he said he knows how to get Bin Laden?

[IndianaGreen]

36. You can google as well as I do

bin Laden is hiding in the tribal areas of Pakistan.

[Phx_Dem]

43. Which is exactly why we're not leaving Afganistan. It's our way

in to Pakistan. Pakistan may not like that but tough shit for them. We'd all love it if they could protect their own nukes (and they will for the most part), but we're not going to sit around while Bin Laden and the Taliban try to take over a nuclear country.

To clarify, I'm not talking about U.S. troops "invading" Pakistan, but flying drones acrossing the Afgan/Pak border.

[IndianaGreen]

52. Those drones are recruiters for Al-Qaeda

Every civilian killed, every village destroyed, by a US drone is another recruiting victory for the Taleban and Al-Qaeda. Even a corrupt shit head like Karzai has been forced to condemn the drone attacks.

[Phx_Dem]

75. The good far outweighs the bad.

Those drones have killed more al Quaeda, including top leaders, this year than previously during any similiar time period.

Maybe we should send them candy and ask them to be nice to us.

[slay]

45. Yeah it's really pissing me off and what gets me is

how now that we have a Dem president all of a sudden "the left" is OK with war? WTF! Do we seriously not have ANY anti-war party? Ugh. The similarities between the two parties especially in this regard is sickening.

[LittleBlue]

69. Yep, same as the old boss. I'm getting so sick of this. Why is he making this war a liberal war?

It's the same shit as Bush.

[earth mom]

70. The peace movement sure is quiet these days isn't it?

Meanwhile the genocide is still going on. :cry:

[quantass]

4. He should go all in or get all out...this inbetween leaves him open to attack here at home and

apparently overseas too. I've been getting my understanding of this war through TYT and so far what has been accomplished is quite extraordinary by Obama...he seems to be a brilliant tactician at war but sadly doesnt like to brag about it to the media and so the very little that we do here from Afgan seems to only be about the casualties. If you are going to war there are sadly going to occur. But what he has and continues to accomplish is impressive and honestly i think it would be a mistake for him to pull out now. I think he should send in more and finish the job. It's a tough situation and whatever his decision there is going to be backlash.

[IndianaGreen]

6. We owe our troops in the field to either give them what they need

or get them all out of harm's way. There is no in-between in here.

[snake in the grass]

65. Go all in?

I've heard that before. It was called der totale Krieg and it didn't work out too well. Afghanistan is not called the Graveyard of Empires for nothing. Looks like we'll have to learn the hard way.

[eridani]

71. How about defining "the job" before blathering about finishing it?

There is no such thing as a country that Al Qaeda "needs." 9-11 was planned in Hamburg and London, and the necessary flight training was obtained in the US. Terrorist cells can be, and are, anywhere.

[IndianaGreen]

5. The 'Peace Option' is off the table

Lots of good options off the table lately.

[CakeGrrl]

23. What "Peace Option"?

He said during the primaries, repeatedly, that he would decrease troops in Iraq and increase them in Afghanistan where Bin Laden and company are established.

As far as I understand it, Bin Laden is still out there. 9/11, however much the RW whores it to their gain, was not a figment of our imagination.

There ARE threats to our security out there and 9/11 was evidence of that. The fact that Bush lied us into war in the wrong country doesn't negate that.

[IndianaGreen]

27. bin Laden is in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan

in the tribal regions.

[CakeGrrl]

33. See my response above - same. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

37. If he were in Afghanistan, the CIA would know about it

[Clio the Leo]

39. 'cause they would look it up on Google. NT

[IndianaGreen]

40. Because our CIA has long standing ties with several tribal leaders in Afghanistan

[Clio the Leo]

42. Oh trust me...........

..... I agree with what you're saying .... but you have to admit, #36 was pretty funny.

[IndianaGreen]

44. Oh, well!

:P

[phleshdef]

7. So what? We broke it, we fucking bought it.

I'm glad Obama has a sense of responsibility, unlike some DUers.

[IndianaGreen]

9. I heard some DUers say the same thing you said

as justification for staying in Iraq even after everyone knew there were no WMDs in Iraq.

[phleshdef]

12. America can't just go around upsetting the natural order of other countries and not be responsible.

Should we have went into Iraq? Of course not. Now that we are there, should we make sure we leave it with at least some measure of stability? Yes of course we should.

I believe that my country should take responsibility for its mistakes. If you don't, then thats just a difference in principles I suppose.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Tribal loyalties are stronger than national loyalties in Afghanistan

I don't want our troops to end up like the Red Army.

[phleshdef]

14. What does that have to do with being a responsible nation?

[IndianaGreen]

16. That we have no nation to defend in Afghanistan

add to that Karzai's stolen election, and you got our troops in the line of fire to keep the narco-trafficker Karzai as mayor of Kabul.

[eridani]

72. Taking responsibility means paying compensation for damages and getting the hell out

If you trash my house, I sure don't want you hanging around trying to "fix" it. Just give me the money to pay for damages plus interest and get out of my face permanently. There is no such thing as creating a functioning society by force among people you don't have the slightest clue about.

[Enrique]

11. we're still breaking it

we'll be breaking it as long as we're there.

[frylock]

49. so lets just keep on breaking soldiers..

and buying more body bags.

[Skittles]

68. THERE IS NO FIXING IT

[niyad]

22. so, are the dead soldiers from these two latest pointless wars going to get their own wall?

[branders seine]

24. Another Obama domino falling?

[Thickasabrick]

28. What if the other members of NATO bail? nt

[IndianaGreen]

29. Despite Gordon Brown's statements to the contrary

the British people want their troops home from Afghanistan now.

[TheBigotBasher]

35. Actually they do not.

They are pissed with the British Government for poor supplies and the incompetent handling of the war, but not with the war itself.

[Phx_Dem]

41. I can't believe anyone actually thought we'd leave Afganistan altogether.

I thought the question was whether he'd send more troops in or reduce troop size and use more drones. Now, it's about "pulling out?" I could have told you that isn't happening soon. And the reason is PAKISTAN. Areas of Pakistan, near the Afganistan border region, are being taken over by Al Queada and the Taliban, and since Pakistan is a nuclear country we can't just sit around and watch.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Not even the Pakistani army has control over tribal areas

And those fabulous drone attacks that Joe Biden is advocating, are turning people against us.

[Phx_Dem]

50. They've also killed alot of terrorists including quite a few top Al Quada leaders.

In fact, the stories I've been reading say we're killing alot more Al Quada terrorists now than during previous years.

So, if I had the choice of having Pakistani's mad at us or having terrorists with nukes, I'd definitely choose the former.

[IndianaGreen]

54. We probably have more to do in destabilizing Pakistan than the Taleban has

Our support of the Musharraf regime did not endear us to the population. The current Pakistani government is barely in control.

The madrassas that train the next generation of Taleban fighters are funded by Saudi Arabia. Pakistan's ISI has been mentoring the Taleban for decades.

Pakistan's ISI still linked to militants, U.S. says

Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:37am EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has indications that elements of Pakistan's ISI military intelligence agency provide support to Taliban or al Qaeda militants, senior U.S. military officers said on Friday.
Navy Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Army General David Petraeus, head of U.S. Central Command, said the agency must end such activities.

The officers made their remarks as the United States unveiled a new strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, which promises more aid for Pakistan but seeks increased cooperation in the fight against al Qaeda and Taliban militants in return.

Mullen noted Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence service had links to militants on both its western border with Afghanistan and its eastern border with India.

"Fundamentally, the strategic approach with the ISI must change and their support ... for militants, actually on both borders, has to fundamentally shift," he told CNN television's "Situation Room" program.

Asked if there were still elements within the ISI who sympathized with or supported al Qaeda and the Taliban, Mullen said: "There are certainly indications that that's the case."

Although links between the ISI and Islamist militants are widely suspected, it is rare for senior U.S. officials to talk publicly about them, for fear of damaging possible cooperation with Pakistani authorities.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52R03R20090328

[Kaleva]

53. I never thought Obama considered pulling out as an option

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

55. He didn't. I'm enjoying watching everyone stroke out about this though.

:applause:

[Skittles]

67. you think senseless war is funny?

[IndianaGreen]

56. Obama had the choice of being either JFK or LBJ

JFK decided to pull out from Vietnam shortly before his assassination.

LBJ decided to escalate the war.

Obama is not JFK. We know this because the "peace option" is off the table, according to the White House.

[Kaleva]

57. It's always been off the table

[IndianaGreen]

59. Then he will end up like LBJ

[ShortnFiery]

62. I hope and pray that we won't lose 58,000 troops before we realize that

half hearted (less than 500,000 overwhelming forces) OCCUPATIONS don't work.

However, in the interim, there's a *whole lotta money* to be made by the Masters of War and their buddies in the multinational Oil and Natural Gas industries. :puke:

[phleshdef]

76. 869 of the total 1445 casualties in Afghanistan were American, thats the entire 8+ years too btw.

Its sad and I would never say anything to denigrate their sacrifice, but give me a break with these crazy Vietnam comparisons.

[amborin]

63. perpetual war, draft, huge U.S. casualties, U.S. NO safer! a WASTE! n/t

[phleshdef]

77. Not to denigrate their sacrifice, but saying we have had huge casualties in Afghanistan is a LIE.

[masuki bance]

64. It's time to end the occupations. nt

[Skittles]

66. he is a fucking fool

[harun]

74. How about pulling out of Iraq?