Really cool graphic with the latest poll results. So much for a "center right" country.

[Happyhippychick]

[liberal N proud]

1. The first two on the right represent bu$h's base

[1776Forever]

2. Very good clear cut and too the point! Excellent! n/t

[Divine Discontent]

19. it sure emphasizes the fact that just because you get huge crowds of the idiots together who are

anti-progress (or just bigots), it doesn't mean they're in the majority. Fox News gets good ratings because all of those types of right-wingers watch them, the 'normal' folks watch a split of all the other channels for news, or get it off the net, like myself.

[Peace Patriot]

3. I made a similar point repeatedly about the Iraq War...

Nearly 60% of the American people opposed the war on Iraq (all polls, Feb. '03, just before the invasion). Their views were not only minimized by the corpo/fascist media, their views were positively black-holed by the corpo/fascist media, so that all of us--THE MAJORITY--who opposed that war felt isolated, disempowered and demoralized.

I think that the object of corpo/fascist propaganda--whether on health care, war or other corporate/war profiteer projects--is not to convince the majority, but rather to demoralize the majority. When you start having the thought: "Wow, my fellow Americans must be nuts," or, "The rightwingers are winning the argument," beware of what you are really thinking, deep down--that your views are in the minority and all is hopeless.

That was a VERY IMPORTANT realization for me, personally--pre-Iraq War, when I hunted around for opinion polls (and had to hunt hard) and found, to my utter astonishment, that MOST Americans opposed the war. Frankly, I was wondering if I had somehow ended up in a crazy, fascist, goose-stepping country. Not true. MOST Americans believed, as I did, that the Iraq War was wrong. They just couldn't be heard. Their views were NOT reflected by the corpo/fascist media. And something had gone very, very, VERY wrong with our democracy.

And if you add in some percentage of people who are naive and/or uninformed, or disinformed, say 10%, I think you get an even clearer picture of REAL American opinion--i.e., nearly 70% against the war, or, say, 66% approval of Obama vs 20% approval of Pukes (rather than 56/30, as per the above). I think there is, in truth, an overwhelming progressive majority in the country--not just big, REALLY big. The intensity of the corpo/fascist media propaganda needs to be taken into account. They disinform some--not a lot, but some. But it is not really that small percentage of naive or uninformed/disinformed people that they are after. They are after the rest of us--not to convince us--they know they can't--but to make us believe that there is no hope for change.

Just a note: There IS hope for change, but we have first to get rid of the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines, now owned and controlled mostly by ONE far, FAR rightwing corporation--ES&S (which just bought out Diebold, and, believe me, is worse than Diebold). Transparent vote counting is the fundamental condition of democracy, and of all beneficial change. Without it, we are essentially powerless. That is why transparent vote counting was taken away. That is how Bush/Cheney got "re-elected" in 2004, with such a big majority having opposed their war policy, and in the midst of revelations of torture and other scandals. There is no other purpose to fast-tracking a system on entirely non-transparent vote counting machines all over the country BUT to rig elections. That system is still in place. It gives the far, FAR rightwing the ability to play our system like a piano--to permit the election of an Obama, then to un-elect Obama; to switch from (s)electing Pukes for Congress to (s)electing "Blue Dogs" for Congress (who might as well be Pukes); and then to crash another rightwing junta right down upon our heads, while we stand helplessly by. Congress is not going to change this. It is up to we, the people, to change it--and this can still be done at the local/state level, where power over voting systems still resides and where ordinary people still have some potential influence. DEMAND vote counting that everyone can see and understand--of your local registrar and local/state officials. Join an election integrity group and get on it. This is the best thing that we can do to insure that government policy is responsive to the will of the progressive majority.

[Overseas]

5. Well said !!

And I can't help thinking that while most of the right wing cash going to the amoral right wing PR firms that stir up fear and hatred in vulnerable populations and get them to storm town halls against their best interests has been to protect private profits,

some of that "supporting genuine grass roots groups" has been designed to create enough of an appearance of "widespread discontent" so that a few key elections in 2010 can be flipped electronically or otherwise manipulated in the GOP's favor.

The GOP has been playing hardball for decades now. The bipartisanship of yore is long gone.

They were able to get the media pundits to pretend Bush the Torturer won fair and square because Kerry the War Hero was boring and had a price tag on his hunting jacket and those jerks in the leaky Swift Boat were just so damn powerful.

So yes, I have also been feeling the need to return to election protection issues, and do what I can to defeat electronic voting systems without audit trails.

We have millions unemployed who would love the income from hand-counting paper ballots. If I'm still unemployed at election time, I'd love to join them.

[glitch]

7. Excellent post, deserving of its own OP. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

13. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

You are right correct on all counts. K. R.

[Demeter]

44. It Wouldn't Matter What Kind of Media We Had

if our chosen representatives, from Obama on down, actually REPRESENTED us!

This is not impossible. Look at Venezuela. The press there hates Chavez, the rich seek to overthrow him, the corporations fund his enemies, and yet the people love him, and he gets things done for HIS PEOPLE. Not for the rich, not for the multinational corporations, but for the lowest of the low. AND he punishes the media that lie. Rather Christ-like, when you think about it.

[subsuelo]

46. Hi Peace Patriot

I have a question - in your posts you frequently mention the use of these trade secret voting machines... I was wondering where do you get your information about these machines and the way they are being used? Thanks!

[Overseas]

4. That's why the right worked hard to gain control of our major mass media.

They've been fighting to sustain the lie that we are a center-right country.

They've tried hard to make political beliefs into a culture war.

See Eric Alterman's book www.whatliberalmedia.com for detail on how this concerted campaign has been run for decades. And valiant watchdog groups like Media Matters who highlight the daily distortions of our national sentiment.

Right wing millions can "support genuine grass roots groups" that our conservative mass media will broadcast to show "widespread opposition to reform," and ignore the millions more desperate for change who hope the Democrats and President Obama can bring it about.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Shit. They didn't have to work too hard. They just bought the whole show.

Everything in the corporate media is captiali$$$t propaganda, intended to manipulate, control and disenfrancise the masses.

"Arise ye pris'ners of starvation"
...

[Overseas]

18. They may not have had to work too hard. But they did.

Bought up the networks but did much much more. Creating think tanks. Grooming politicians. Distributing talking points. Etc. Etc.

And the early Powell Memo to combat the enemies of free enterprise. Forgot to link that in. 1971:
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html

And ugly cold Newt Gingrich's famous memo from 1996: "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4443.htm

[BanzaiBonnie]

25. And sadly, Public Broadcasting has been bought out because

is no longer supported by public dollars. More of their support is from private entities.

We need to go back to public support so we can have at least one honest source of information.

[tabatha]

6. And what is good about this - is that it is AFTER the

summer of teabaggers. Guess they did not have much effect.

[tanyev]

24. Maybe even a negative effect.

[tridim]

8. I thought the Congressional Repuke "approval" numbers were in the teens?

Where did they get 30%?

[Laurab]

28. It could be 30% just for that one issue.

One or two of the others show it to be in their teens - overall, it's probably in the teens, too.

K & R!

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Ouch

That is a brutal set of poll results if you're in a marginal seat in the GOP. Just awful. They think they're going to flip Congress with numbers like that? They'll be lucky not to lose MORE seats.

[Doctor_J]

10. I think the Repukes have explained their plans very clearly

NO!!!!

[Lochloosa]

22. Existing government programs and charities.

What's the problem? Oh yeah. Tumors in my stomach.

[Cha]

11. I would think glen bech and his teabaggers

helped more Americans realize this with the help of the corporatemedia's endless coverage.

[defendandprotect]

12. Lovely . . .!!! Let's turn everything blue . . .

[bkkyosemite]

15. Very nice graphic and very understandable. I think on healthcare Obama's 45% would be higher if

it was Single Payer.

[Quasimodem]

33. I, too, would like to see . . .

. . . the figures of a straight up and down, clearly-worded, totally unambiguous question on support for single payer health care.

And why don't we see one?

[DissedByBush]

16. Sweet, but I don't get the last one

Democratic President, Democratic House, filibuster-proof Democratic Senate with 60 supermajority.

This is only for the Democrats to screw up. The Republicans are just along for the ride.

[mzmolly]

17. Republicans are supposed to serve the public as well. We shouldn't need

every Democrat in office, in order to pass health care reform.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. supposed to?

According to who? They serve their masters.

[mzmolly]

41. True, but they have an obligation to do more than obstruct.

If they choose not to, I will not blame the 95% of Democrats who tried.

[mzmolly]

43. According to those who vote for them

I presume?

[DissedByBush]

40. Shouldn't, but that looks like the case

Let the Republicans be remembered as the ones who tried in vain to stop progress.

[Sebastian Doyle]

45. Well, the Republicans in Congress ARE the ones fucking up health care.

It's just that the Republicans are named Baucus, Conrad, Nelson, etc. and they claim to be "Democrats" :evilfrown:

[pansypoo53219]

20. BUT,

what do the teevee gnew want? and the other presstitutes?

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. kick and recommend

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. The last graphic is telling

and I hope it is seen by every GOP member of the House and Senate, especially those in tight races in 2010.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

27. I agree, but here's the problem

There are fewer and fewer "tight races" any more. I think there are only a handful of Republicans left in genuine "battleground" districts. Most of what's left are from places were a Democrat has no chance of winning -- and I think those poll numbers would look remarkably different if you polled just in those districts alone.

Which leads me to say that Obama needs to stop trying to be bi-partisan. Olympia Snowe and a half-dozen other Republicans aside, there is nobody on the other side of the aisle who is persuadable on this issue. As somebody rightly pointed out, the Republicans are the Village Idiots, and we're trying to craft a national policy that caters to the sensibilities of a pack of gibbering morons. Let it go. Get it done.

[harmonicon]

29. two things:

1. Those poll numbers aren't that good for Obama - just worse for Republicans.
2. The US is still definitely a center-right country. I know it may not seem that way from inside the US, but Obama is a center-right politician along the lines of Sarkozy in France, which I think accounts for his popularity on a whole. I'm a staunch leftist, and I voted for him, but I don't think that he's left by any stretch of the imagination. It's just that the "right" in the US is basically a bat-shit crazy party, so the Democrats have had to become the party of the right, left, and center. It seems to me that most Dems are center-right, with a few right-wing crazies (well, Lieberman has left), a few old party-machine labor leftists, and very few truly left-wing members.

[Stumbler]

37. Yes and no on your 2nd point

I agree with you that the Dem party has left, center and right-leaning members, while the Rep party is bat-shit crazy; it seems you can't be a Rep in America today if you're even the slightest bit Liberal or moderate. And the Dem party has been sliding more and more to the right for years in an attempt to pick up those disenfranchised "independents." Thus, we elected Obama, a center-right, corporate-friendly game-player, who Fox news still calls the most liberal senator in congress. So in the field of politics in terms of our representatives and our nation's media coverage, we can be viewed as a center-right country.

But I believe the majority of the citizens are center-left. First off, there are many in our society who view politics and voting as useless because no matter who you vote for, they're going to pander to corporate interests before citizen's interests. Think back to the primary debates in which Kucinich was marginalized and asked about UFOs while Hillary and Barrack got center-stage placement amd policy questions. I too supported Obama in the end, but only because it was actually a vote AGAINST McCain/ Palin. Second, I call myself socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and have sat down and debated with a number of friends and family who are self-described Republicans who, in the end, agree with me on 90% of the issues discussed. And usually that 10% difference is a single issue like abortion where we have to agree to disagree. The problem is that those issues in which we agree are either never brought up on television, or are "debated" by a panel of 4 moderate-to-conservative Reps.

And therein lies the heart of the problem. Our media is dominated by conservative voices. And many people make the mistake of viewing our media's opinions as a reflection of our citizen's opinions. This is false. The media's opinions are a reflection of a corporation's opinions; the corporation(s) who own the media outlets. Thus, the mis-guided belief that we are a center-right country, when we are really a center-left populace, governed by center-right influences.

[harmonicon]

42. yeah, I guess you're right

The problem is that there's really no way to test it because of who's put up for election. It's next to impossible to even have a leftist on the ballot. Kucinich is for real, and yes, he's marginalized by the media. The closest chance we had was Dean, who I think could be described as a centrist, or center left. He's like you and I: liberal on social issues, and fiscally conservative. And it was the media who sunk him too (and, though I'm a crazy anarchist, I still voted for Dean over Kucinich in that primary, because I thought he had a better over-all plan).

[dhpgetsit]

30. What a nice way to start the day! :D

Thank you!

[FourScore]

31. K/R

I just hope the dems notice that last one.

[fascisthunter]

32. good...

the democrats have their problems too, but are nothing as insidious as the republican party.

[southernyankeebelle]

34. The polls say it all - I would like to know when the MSM starts showing

that more people are center left. But than again you keep hearing the right scream that the MSM is liberal when we all know different.

[underpants]

35. But but Mika on Morning Joke had SEVERAL op-eds......from "informed" insiders....

:eyes:

[asdjrocky]

36. Wow, someone should really tell the media about this.

[Happyhippychick]

38. I believe the chart was printed in the NY Times.

[iceman66]

39. We do have a "center right" media.