I wish we could switch what the far left and far right believe about Obama

[CTLawGuy]

If the far left could believe he is a socialist commie an if the far right could believe he was a corporate sellout, everyone could both continue to demonstrate how uninformed they are, BUT be HAPPIER!

[RichGirl]

1. So true...LOL!!!!!

[Warren Stupidity]

2. One of those 'beliefs' is mostly true the other is divorced from reality.

But you make a good snark.

[Richardo]

3. HA!

:rofl:

K&R :patriot:

[whyverne]

4. That's what keeps cracking me up.

The people who voted for him say he hasn't done anything different and the people who didn't vote for him say he's changed everything. Lots of middle ground there.

[Orsino]

23. And you know what? Both sides are correct.

As president, Obama can only exert influence on a heavily-corrupted Congress. The changes he brings will be small ones, measured objectively. The far right that pines for its "country back" find that one of the pillars of their world view--that presidents are white--has vanished, and that this president performs well without having to frighten everyone all the time.

[NYC_SKP]

5. This is SOOOOO True. Yet the post is unrecommended. I guess the truth hurts.

Some here...

Of course we're talking about the fringe and uninformed on both ends of the spectrum.

The vast majority understand that the president is a moderate who has the working class's best interests at heart but is not willing to sacrifice too much of the status quo too soon.

He is his own man, the vision is his, not ours.

And I'm OK with that because I share 95% of what I perceive that vision to be.

:patriot:

[kath]

13. WHAT, exactly, makes you think that he "has the working class's best interests at heart"??

FDR and real Democrats from that era, including my two grandfathers who were union organizers back in the '30s and '40s, putting their lives and livelihoods on the line for workers' rights, are surely rolling in their graves at what has happened to the Democratic party and what passes for a "Democratic" president these days...

[Pharlo]

6. The problem with your analogy is that

many of the 'far left' who are upset, or becoming upset, are just barely left of center.

Personally, I'm not 'far right' but I wouldn't vote for a socialist or a communist candidate either.

But, the fact is, Barack Obama has yet to meet a corporate group for which he is unwilling to sell out the American Public.

Unfortunately, many of us have had to face the realization that, for others on this board, policy is secondary to their Obama-worship.

As far as I'm concerned, health care is his last chance to redeem himself. Either he subsidizes the insurance companies or he gives the American public some health care relief.

[Jakes Progress]

7. Oh but it is so warm here in the middle

of whatever someone tells me the middle is. I don't have to have any thoughts or beliefs or political center. I can just roll back and forth without heed to any personal belief other than my faith.

[jgraz]

9. And he's just soooo dreamy. Who could ever criticize him?

And have you SEEN Michelle's arms? Dayum. Who needs healthcare when your first lady has guns like that?

[SpartanDem]

10. Barack Obama has yet to meet a corporate group for which he is unwilling to sell out

I seem to remember him just last week upping tariffs on Chinese tire in enforcing our trade agreements and urging Congress move more quickly regulation reform you call that selling out?

[CTLawGuy]

11. right....

just because he might not go as far as you would want in reform doesn't make him a sellout. A corporate sellout would not even be considering health care reform, would have done NOTHING to regulate the credit card companies, would have passed a "stimulus" consisting solely of tax cuts, etc.

Governing, especially as a liberal, is difficult, because liberals seek to BUILD programs to improve our lives. That is DIFFICULT. It is difficult to create something complex that will both pass Congress (which is independent and ideologically diverse, even within the D party) and be effective.

What do conservatives do? Tear down programs, cut taxes, oppose everything, let the "free market" handle it. That's EASY to do, it doesn't take a lot of thought or negotiation.

If you think governing is so easy, then run for office. Put your money where your mouth is. All the far left has been doing this whole summer is whining and threatening to take their ball and go home. While the far right attacked town halls and got into the national consciousness, PUTTING IN THE ELBOW GREASE, the far left sat on their hands and wagged their fingers at Obama because it isn't all done yet, because everything isn't better yet, because the US hasn't been turned into a liberal utopia yet.

So, in short, I'm not interested in your idiotic characterization of our president, our best hope for change for the better right now. He's doing the best he fucking can with the people he has to work with.

This is Democratic Underground, and we support Democrats here.

[Moochy]

17. "I'm not interested "

Yes, yes you were.
You came looking for a poster that dared dissent and you got it. Mission accomplished!

[CTLawGuy]

18. actually I came to inject a little humor onto DU

and express frustration at those who complain way too much, think way too little, and accomplish little that is positive for this country.

[Pharlo]

20. So, anyone who disagrees with whatever Barack Obama does

is not a 'Democrat' in your opinion, and should not be on DU. You also believe that anyone who does not bow down to kiss the Obama Way is complaining "way too much".

Perhaps you need to compare giveaways to corporations (particularly financial institutions and auto companies) with what was 'given to the people in the form of the stimulus package'. Hell, even GW gave 'money back' - only he returned it in one lump sum rather than over the course of a year. And, I'm grateful for BOTH, but the fact remains, that compared to what a FEW companies got, the total amount returned to the American electorate was anemic.

So, alongside financial giveaways, telecom immunity, continued use of KBR and Blackwater/Xe, and continued outsourcing of jobs from the US with no movement on the horizon towards removing incentives for so called 'American' companies to move those jobs overseas I am supposed to overlook all of these because Obama 'imposed tariffs' on Chinese tires? To me, that looks like Goodyear got a good lobbiest.

For many of the 'wary and skeptical of Obama' crowd on this board, crumbs don't cut it. The fact is, single payer was never on the table. Had Obama been the chess genius many think him to be, he'd have started at that and 'let' the opposition whittle him down to a 'public option'. Instead, the Presidential Candidate who was anti 'mandates' is now promoting mandates. And, the 'hard lefties' (aka hand wringing, do nothing progressives) are trying to hold him to HIS promise of no mandates.

Let's discuss these 'hard lefties (hand wringing, do nothing progressives)' of whom you are so derogative. They've been out there. They've been getting arrested in defense of their views. Simply because the MSM isn't covering them as assiduously as they are the Right Wing Crazies, you think they're doing nothing? That's like saying if the MSM hadn't covered Obama's inauguration, almost 2 million people weren't really there, because you didn't see a picture of it on your television.

The fact is that with polls showing more Americans want a public option on health care reform than not, Obama is still hesitant to come out and explicitly state that he supports a public option. He alludes to it, he implies it, but does NOT explicitly state his desire and support.

If we get something decent from this, a damn good amount of the credit will go to the 'hard left (hand wringing, do nothing progressives) who went to the Town Halls and spoke eloquently and supportively of a public option. They may not have made the news, but they were there, they were active. To the individuals who faced arrest at Baucus' committee meetings because they wanted single payer to be considered alongside the other options. To Howard Dean and his efforts.

And, it's not that everyone who complains about Obama is against him. It's that his record to date is making us suspicious. There is also the fact that we know he is capable of more - a lot more. And, we expect it of him.

Left to the 'whatever Barry does is fine with me' brigade, Baucus' plan would have become law by now.

[CTLawGuy]

21. line by line.

"So, anyone who disagrees with whatever Barack Obama does is not a 'Democrat' in your opinion, and should not be on DU. You also believe that anyone who does not bow down to kiss the Obama Way is complaining "way too much"."

I didn't say that. What I did say was essentially that people who do nothing but make hyperbolic and uninformed comments about what he is doing complain way too much. I believe such comments do not add to the discourse and should not be on DU--as opposed to measured, well-informed constructive criticism, which I rarely see. "Obama is a corporate sellout" is about as meaningful as "Obama is a socialist" and does nothing but annoy people.

"Perhaps you need to compare giveaways to corporations (particularly financial institutions and auto companies) with what was 'given to the people in the form of the stimulus package'. Hell, even GW gave 'money back' - only he returned it in one lump sum rather than over the course of a year. And, I'm grateful for BOTH, but the fact remains, that compared to what a FEW companies got, the total amount returned to the American electorate was anemic."

While there is room to disagree about the wisdom of the bailouts, I should point out that the banks are the foundation of a healthy economy. without the ability to lend and borrow money, the economy cannot function properly because businesses cannot get needed capital. Whether businesses can get the money they need affects you and me and everyone. Same with the auto industry. If the auto industry goes down, that puts untold numbers of Americans out of work, and such a large glut of unemployed would have an effect on everyone. I agree that no company should ever get too big to fail, and I agree that we need more regulations governing financial institutions. But you'd have to agree that not doing something would have had huge implications not just for thoese industries, but for all of us.

"For many of the 'wary and skeptical of Obama' crowd on this board, crumbs don't cut it. The fact is, single payer was never on the table. Had Obama been the chess genius many think him to be, he'd have started at that and 'let' the opposition whittle him down to a 'public option'. Instead, the Presidential Candidate who was anti 'mandates' is now promoting mandates. And, the 'hard lefties' (aka hand wringing, do nothing progressives) are trying to hold him to HIS promise of no mandates."

Our government is designed to crank out crumbs of change--get over it. Crumbs add up over time; keep fighting. Single payer was not on the table because the political will does not exist in Congress to pass it and Obama knew that from the start. If you want to change that, elect dems who are pro single payer, or run yourself. Also, the public option is far from dead, so I'm not sure why he needed to start with SP and then compromise it (which you would have lambasted him for). The PO is in 4 of the 5 bills, and in all four that have passed (with a chance to be in bill #5, the much maligned but yet to be passed Baucus Bill). I agree with you on mandates. He flipped on it. However, if there is a public option, then I will grudgingly accept a mandate, but if not, I will be very unhappy with a mandate.

"Let's discuss these 'hard lefties (hand wringing, do nothing progressives)' of whom you are so derogative. They've been out there. They've been getting arrested in defense of their views. Simply because the MSM isn't covering them as assiduously as they are the Right Wing Crazies, you think they're doing nothing? That's like saying if the MSM hadn't covered Obama's inauguration, almost 2 million people weren't really there, because you didn't see a picture of it on your television."

The fact is they have not been out there NEARLY to the degree the right has. Blaming the media is a cop out. For example, if the left had been at the town halls with the same presence as the right, it would be nearly impossible to NOT cover them as well.

"The fact is that with polls showing more Americans want a public option on health care reform than not, Obama is still hesitant to come out and explicitly state that he supports a public option. He alludes to it, he implies it, but does NOT explicitly state his desire and support."

more delusion. He's done so A MILLION TIMES, he even said so in his speech to congress! He even used the words Public Option. This statement shows how little attention you are paying.

"But an additional step we can take to keep insurance companies honest is by making a not-for-profit public option available in the insurance exchange." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/obama-health-care-speech_n_281265.html.

I will respond more later. I have to go to work.

[CTLawGuy]

22. continued

"If we get something decent from this, a damn good amount of the credit will go to the 'hard left (hand wringing, do nothing progressives) who went to the Town Halls and spoke eloquently and supportively of a public option. They may not have made the news, but they were there, they were active. To the individuals who faced arrest at Baucus' committee meetings because they wanted single payer to be considered alongside the other options. To Howard Dean and his efforts."

Funny, I didn't see Howard Dean constantly attacking the president... not sure why you lumped him in with the people I'm talking about. I think health care will pass because it is important and the Dems have been wanting to reform health care for a long time. It is just difficult to do when you consider the various obstacles--Rs who want to do nothing but block health care, conservadems worried about political fallout from supporting reform, the 60 vote threshhold to stop a filibuster. Those groups you mention will get credit, but who shouldn't get credit? People sitting around posting attacks on the president all day on DU.

'And, it's not that everyone who complains about Obama is against him. It's that his record to date is making us suspicious. There is also the fact that we know he is capable of more - a lot more. And, we expect it of him.

Left to the 'whatever Barry does is fine with me' brigade, Baucus' plan would have become law by now."

There are people who do nothing BUT complain about Obama. His record is not perfect, but he's not George Bush. There are a lot of things he has not had time to focus on because of all the other shit going on. Some people don't understand this, some people expect everything to be fixed NOW, and it just doesn't work that way. Funny you should mention the Baucus plan: it is currently in committee being attacked by 500+ amendmnents (including one to add a public option) and at least Sen. Rockefeller is on record saying he opposes the Baucus bill as is. So no, it would not be law by now. Believe me, people complaining on the internet are having no effect other than to piss off sane people reading their complaints.

[Dr Fate]

25. The "3rd Way" strategty involves equating the "far left" with the actual far right.

Then the "centrist" steps out and says- "Look at those crazy people- I'm the sensible alternative!"

You have pointed out how misguided their strategy is- b/c TRUE MODERATES are for real reform too.

When they say "far left"- what they really mean is : "I'm too cowardly or corrupt to fight for that- so I'll just call it far left."

"Hey look at those crazy far lefties over there wanting reform- they sure are crazy- right? They are just like tea baggers- right? Right?"

Ummm no.

LOL! It's actually funny to watch our "centrists" try to equate pro-reform DEMS with tea baggers- they are waiting with baited breath for their "Sister Soulja" moment.

Sorry "centrists"- it's not the 1990's anymore, and no one but you, tea baggers and the RW media really thinks that pro-reform DEMS are like tea baggers.

But keep the faith, baby. If you say it enough times, maybe a few idiots will repeat it for you.

[SIMPLYB1980]

8. K&R!

:applause:

[debbierlus]

12. The health care legislation he outlined in his speech is a corporate sell out

5% covered with a public option?

A public option MUST be available to all Americans & it must not be weakened to allow the insurance companies to 'compete'.

Here are the costs for mandated private insurance in MA:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/debbierlus/329

You think that legislation promoting this type of system isn't a corporate sellout, I wonder what your definition of corporate sell out would be?

[kath]

14. +100

another great post from you, debbierlus!

[CTLawGuy]

16. -200

so there.

[CTLawGuy]

15. that legislation

also PREVENTS insurance cos from

-denying coverage for a preexisting condition
-rescinding coverage on a technicality that is only "found" when the insured incurs a 6-figure bill.
-imposing annual or lifetime caps on payouts

Sounds like corporate whoring to me :eyes:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

19. Isn't it 'fun' how much people tends to only focus on the words that support their cause

and skips/treats things opposing that view as irrelevant or 'just talk'

[Romulox]

24. In exchange for mandating every American buy their product.

You left out the "pro quo" part. :hi:

[Dr Fate]

26. I wish that "centrists" supported a public option instead of equating Dem voters with tea baggers.

Keep the faith, baby! If you don't get your Sister Soulja moment, you can always manufacture one.

LOOK! The "far left" is just as uninformed as the tea baggers are! Pro Reform lefties & moderates are just like Tea Baggers-both say bad things about Obama! LOL! Look how CRAZY they both are!

Look at me! Since I make fun of both, that can only mean that my pro-corporate positions represent the sensible center!!!!

The "3rd Way" is really quite lazy & uncourageous- it's just easier to attack a "far left" boogie man than to actually stand up for real reform.