What IS wrong with you people?

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

I've just read these threads (through page 5).

Dear god. This may seem offensive, but some of you have NO idea how the process works. You buy the "substance" hook, line, and sinker. The reason Dennis K. and Nader look so good to some of you (and I voted for Ralph in 2000 and will still make NO apologies--full discretion) is because they can't win. You love their substance because, well, they're substantive. But it's not about substance; it's only about MESSAGE. What's the 30-second message? What's your 30-second platform? Department of Peace? Fuck you (and I LOVE Dennis K.--and may support him--please don't lock this thread because of that). Edible and digestible. Give me soemthing to eat and to barf-up before my colleagues at work. That's it. That simple. We are a stupid, consumer culture. Does this mean you sell out on pinciples? Hardly (you know, like Clinton execting the mentally handicapped--sorry, I hold grudges). But it means that you sell your campaign to the masses. You understand how the media works (through simpl either/or narratives) and you construct your campaign around this.

I love the fact that we can argue about substance here. It may be the only place to do so. But NEVER confuse substance with politics. EVERYTHING IS narrative. "I'm a straight shooter; I shoot from the hip." That's pure narrative. I'm outside of Washington (pure narrative). Even resume is narrative (as "true" as it may seem). Get Machiavellian people. Or we will lose. Think about everything in two ways: 1) how do I win THIS primary (which narrative works best--wither my narrative or my opponent's); 2) how do I win the general election. How will my set-back here (a win by 6 points as opposed to 15) help me in the general election. That simple.

Now, please, hit me with the idealistic narrative--which, mind you, is simply yet another narrative. In my best Nelson Muntz, "Hah, hah!"

[arewethereyet]

1. Edwards suffers from adherance to substance as well

he has a terrific vision and well thought out but its not nearly as interesting as 'Bush sucks' or this one or that one sucks.

I believe that substance will make itself known when it comes to real people making real descisions.

We may be a consumer culture but I also think that there is more to that culture than meets the eyes.

I look to January and February surprizes all over.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

2. I am always hopefully optimistic

that your analysis is correct (not about Edwards but about ourt consumer culture). Just remember, 60% still thinks Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

Collective shiver.

[Dookus]

3. three threads

in a short period all saying effectively the same thing is unncecessary.

There is NOTHING we say here that isn't already fodder for all the campaigns, of either party. People really overestimate the influence a few thousand people in a relatively obscure corner of the internet have.

We're in a primary campaign, and so far, this one is no different from any other one I've seen, other than a lot of people can discuss it in places like this and piss one another off.

What we do or say here is inconsequential when we look at the big picture.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

4. I don't think it's that inconsequential.

People are always hookin' me up with very good links. In fact, the info. I get here is sometimes better than the info I get from people I KNOW who work on these campaigns. Moreover, I think people are more tapped in here to the message than they are the substance. This is why I find it SO maddening. You people are the best informed in terms of information, yes, but also in terms of pur POLITICAL MESSAGE. And you seem to refuse to see the latter. That's my point, really.

One has to see the forest for the trees in a campaign. It doesn't mean whoring; it means constructing a narrative (BEFORE the media constructs one--see Gore 2000).

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

6. Locking

1. If you start a thread in the General Discussion forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming.

DU Moderator