"None of the healthcare bills guarantee that you can keep your employer based healthcare benefits"

[Better Believe It]

- So it just isn't true that you can keep your employer provided health insurance plan if you like it. This article tells the truth -

Liar, Liar … Well, Healthcare Pants on Fire
by Donna Smith
Donna Smith is a community organizer for the California Nurses Association and National Co-Chair for the Progressive Democrats of America Healthcare Not Warfare campaign.
August 27, 2009

So, we've been told over and over again that under the healthcare reform plans currently defended and pushed by the President and Congress that we can keep what we've got if we like it. No one will take your health insurance bennies away. Not under our employer-based, for-profit system.

Just how gullible are we when we trust that any private company will be forced to keep any benefit plan it chooses not to keep?

Employers will still be able to change up healthcare plans to meet the company's needs – and if that means you have to see another doctor or pay a higher co-pay or drive to a more distant in-network provider, that will not be your decision. And health insurance companies will still be able to change their provider lists and covered services and all sorts of other things without any input from policyholders.

The House bill on healthcare reform, the Senate plan for healthcare reform and the President's plan for healthcare reform – none of these actually guarantee that you can keep what you have if you like it, because tomorrow your employer or your insurance company may change what you like to suit their bottom line. That's the truth.

If this big lie about healthcare reform rolls off their messaging engines like melting butter on a warm slice of bread, what else do you suppose they are lying about? Come on. Get real. We won't have what we want in terms of truly having the freedom to choose and keep or change our doctors, our providers and our own treatments until we break free from the lies and produce reform that guarantees a progressively financed, single high-quality standard of care for everybody. Everybody in, nobody out.

It's not just the right-wing selling myths in this discussion. We need to admit that and work to be as honest as we can. Too many lives depend on this. There will be no death panels to order Grandma's demise, but there are also no guarantees that you can keep what you have if you like it under this system. Both things are lies.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/27-9

[wryter2000]

1. What people are scared of is being forced into a public system

That's what "if you like it, you keep it" means. No one is going to change the law to make companies continue to offer what they offer now.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. The bill doesn't force anyone into the public system

That is stated quite clearly in Title II Subtitle B Sec. 221 Established only as part of the Health Insurance Exchange.

The policies in the Health Insurance Exchange have to meet certain guidelines, and grandfathered in policies must conform to these guidelines after a certain date, at which times insurance companies that want to stay in the health insurance business must be a part of the Exchange.

[wryter2000]

23. I know no one's forced into a public system

I still don't know how best to say what I want to say. :)

The problem with this article is that she seems to think that "you won't need to change" promises that the bill will make employers maintain their health insurance benefits they way they currently are. No one made any such promise. We only promised that this bill will do nothing to change employer-based health insurance.

Yes, the insurance companies will go into the list. The question of this column is...will your employer continue to supply your health insurance? As I understand it, the bill has nothing to say to that.

I don't think "Liar, Liar" is an honest title for her point, and I don't appreciate her tone. Does she want to leave things the way they are? Because that's what her column sounds like.

[harun]

35. Exactly, it does the opposite. It forces nearly everyone in big companies OUT

of the Public Option. We can't get it even if we want it.

[quantass]

2. I still cant get over how Odd the American Healthcare system is

Those words like Co-Pay and In-Network providers is so strange. And very sad that people have to concern themselves over such things when they need healthcare.

[Soylent Brice]

16. yeah, for the supposed "beacon of freedom and innovation" that

we're supposed to be, we're pretty fucking ignorant, huh?

[tsuki]

3. Employers can change the health care plan now, today, and the

employees have nothing to say about it.

[global1]

10. Your Exactly Right - Let's Say Health Reform Doesn't Pass......

an employer in order to save themselves money going forward under no health reform - may be forced to jettison their current plan for something cheaper. Hence - if you like what you have by your employer and your employer decides to change plans - you won't be keeping your current plan and will have to take whatever the employer offers.

There is a better chance that the employer will keep their current plan - if health reform passes and a public option is available. Why? Because the public plan is now in competition with the employers current health insurance offering. If that company that has the employers business wants to retain that business will either match the public option cost or be more competitive than the public option.

The public option is a must.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Employers will be more likely to keep their insurance if the bill passes

because it levies a surcharge on employers who choose not to offer insurance to their employeees. Here it is, right from the bill, (as summarized by me)

Division A Title III Subsection B Employer Responsibility

Sec. 313: Employer Contributions in Lieu of Coverage
A. 8% of average salary
B. Special rules for small employers-pay this amount instead of 8%:
Annual Payroll Percentage
>250K 0
250-300K 2
300-350K 4
350-400K 6

[DarthPortnoy]

4. Question

I have a questions that I honestly have not been able to find out.

True that the Big Corporations can change their insurers or even drop coverage if they so please.

But what happens to the little guy? What happens if two years down the road, Company X decides that it will no longer offer health insurance benefits. Will Employee Y be able to go and sign up with any active health insurer out there? Or will they have to take the Government's public option?

Sign me confused.

[shraby]

7. They can do either or neither. It's up to them. If they want,

the public option will be there. If they don't like what their employer is offering, they can find another health care plan from a different insurance company or go to the public option (hopefully single payer). That's the whole point. They would have a choice in what they can do.

[Better Believe It]

27. So you can drop your employers healthcare insurance and be permitted to pay the full premium cost of

a different private health care insurance plan! Sounds like a real winner to me.

Do ya think a lot of people will excercise that "option"?

And very few people will be eligible for the so-called "public option".

Only about 10 million will be in it by 2019 according to congressonal projections!

Everyone else might be required to buy private insurance or be fined if the private insurance mandate is passed!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. I've read the bill

and from what I've seen, here's what would happen:

1. Your employer gives you health insurance, and then stops doing so. First thing that happens is that company must now pay a surcharge to the government for doing this--amount depends upon gross income of the company--anything from 0% (gross under 250K) to 8% of the annual salary of said employee (gross over 400K for company) See Title III Subtitle B Employer Responsibility Section 313.

The likelihood of the employer stopping insurance then, goes down the bigger the company is.

2. You go to the Health Insurance Exchange as an individual. As presented in the bill now, you can choose from among ANY plan in the pool--and after a certain number of years (3-5) ALL insurance companies who want to present basic plans to individuals have to join the pool in order to do so. And if you are worried about being able to afford the premiums, there will be Individual Affordability Credits--available to individuals and families whose employer doesn't offer insurance.

What has to be in the Basic plan is spelled out in the bill, as well as the fact that insurance companies must use 70% of the actuarial value of the policies on health care rather than fancy salaries for their CEOs. And there are enhanced and premium policies that insurance companies can opt to offer if they wish.

This is spelled out in Title II-Health Insurance Exchange and Related Provisions--whole Subtitle A worth reading.

The public option is under Subtitle B, and Section 221 states quite clearly that the Public Option is established as ONLY A PART of the Health Insurance Exchange.

Hope this information, with citations from the bill, is helpful.

[Better Believe It]

17. How many employer insurance plans cost an employer more than 8% of annual salary?

This could be a very nice out for companies that currently pay a lot more than 8% of a workers salary for healthcare.

As the profit squeeze continues, I can see many employers opting out for that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. That could be

but at least we are arguing on the merits of what is actually stated in the bill instead of lies and distortions.

[Better Believe It]

25. Which bill? We have four of them plus an Obama administration proposal which might be made

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. HR 3200

The one in PDF format at the House website.

[Better Believe It]

26. Which bill? We have 4 bills and a 5th one coming.

[mohc]

5. The implication is the government will not make you change your plan.

With or without health care reform, employers are going to be able to change what plans they offer. And outside the exchange, insurance companies will be able to change the plans they offer to employers as they do now. The reason people are saying that "you can keep your plan if you like it", is because there are plenty of other people saying that the government is going to force you onto a new plan. I see nothing deceptive with stating it as "you can keep your plan". Maybe stating "the government will not make you change your plan" would be more precise, but stating it in the negative never conveys the message as clearly as stating it in the affirmative.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. There is a whole section about grandfathering in current plans

Division A Subtitle A
Section 102-Protecting the Choice To Keep Current Coverage
A. Grandfathered Insurance Coverage = individual health coverage in force before enactment of this law-only dependents can be added to coverage after enactment, and terms of policy cannot change. % change in costs cannot be made for an individual, but must be made for entire risk group

[debbierlus]

6. Good God...Unrecommends for what?

Pathetic.

[jenmito]

9. For making it sound like Obama is lying. Any employer can change your insurance plan/doctors you

see NOW. Any HCR bill wouldn't change that.

[jenmito]

8. Obama should say, "Any more than you could BEFORE this bill." Employers could take

away your current insurance and change it NOW. This HCR wouldn't affect that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. Under the bill, employers who drop coverage

will have a surcharge levied on a sliding scale, depending upon grosses of the business.
Division A Title III-Shared Responsibility
Subtitle B: Employer Responsibility
Sec. 311: Health Coverage Participation Requirements
3. Offers Coverage
4. Contributes Towards Coverage
5. Contribution in Lieu of Coverage
Sec. 312: Employer Responsibility
A. In General-follow three items in Sec. 311
B. Reduction of Employee Premium Through Minimum Employer Contribution
1. Full time employees-employer’s contribution on current plan is 72.5% of premium for individuals, 65% for families
2. Applicable Premium For Exchange Coverage-reference premium amount found at 243c
3. Part Time Employees
4. Salary Reductions not treated as employer contributions
C. Automatic Enrollment in Employer Sponsored Benefits-rules for this
Sec. 313: Employer Contributions in Lieu of Coverage
A. 8% of average salary
B. Special rules for small employers-pay this amount instead of 8%:
Annual Payroll Percentage
>250K 0
250-300K 2
300-350K 4
350-400K 6

[jenmito]

33. Thanks for the informative post.

:hi:

[CTyankee]

28. Sure, employers do it all the time. Before I retired, my employer changed the terms of my

health care coverage every year since premiums went up every year. Nobody challenged that. It just was the way it was.

So the price of bread goes up at your supermarket...don't you expect that?

[Born_A_Truman]

12. I guess some people are that gullible---

Do we need to do "the big hand's on the twelve" for people? Companies go out of business, change insurance providers, etc all the time. We've had our yearly deductible double in the last year.

If you get your medical insurance through your job, your company is in charge of your medical, not you.

I can't believe people are so dense they believed otherwise.

[ieoeja]

13. Is Donna Smith really that stupid, or just pretending?

None of the reform options be given serious consideration would take away what we already have. THAT is what they are saying.

Sure, somebody may occasionally word it as, "we guarantee you can keep your current policy." But anybody who believes that means anything other than what I wrote above is either incredibly stupid or a fucking liar.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SpartanDem]

20. Talk about stooping down to GOP level

the talk about keeping your plan has been about not forcing people into a public plan nothing else and to say otherwise is outright lying.

[Better Believe It]

38. We won't be forced into a public plan? What if we don't want to be forced into the private plan?

"the talk about keeping your plan has been about not forcing people into a public plan"

That's sorta true in a perverse sort of way.

The "public" plan will only cover around 10 million people by 2019 while the rest of us are forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies under mandatory federal requirements. We'll be forced into the money grabbing hands of the private health insurance racket!

The "public plan" won't begin until sometime in 2013 if it makes it out of the House/Senate conference.


The "public" plan that won't permit employers to obtain public health insurance for their workers if they have more than 20 employees?

The "public" plan won't be allowed to charge Medicare rates because that would be "unfair" to the private insurance industry.

[The Magistrate]

24. Captain Obvious, Sir, Seems To have Had Another Blinding Flash Of It....

As things stand now, any employee can lose their health insurance through an employer at the employers whim, whether through being fired or laid off, or the employer simply deciding to save the cost of the policy. Nothing in any bill changes that. What those bills including a public option do is give someone a means of obtaining insurance when they are dropped by an employer. The mind reels at the horror of that last....

[Ikonoklast]

29. This is a new low, even for you.

Getting desperate.

[dionysus]

31. i can smell the flop sweat.

:rofl:

[ima_sinnic]

32. oh, you think the insurance co's will be forced to keep patients who are "unprofitable"?

right. you need to read the article, not just the headline.

[Ikonoklast]

34. That will be part of insurance reform.

So, yes.

And I read the article. Lots of half-truths and misrepresetations.

[SpartanDem]

37. Actually they will

that's a very basic part of reform

[w4rma]

36. For small business owners, health care cannot be employer based.

We need to end the employer-based health-care system it promotes the type of anti-small business society that our founding fathers fought against Britain to get rid of (example: the British East India Tea Company).

[johnaries]

39. We don't have that guarantee now. My employer dropped

several plans just last year.

[Better Believe It]

40. And you won't have a legal right to keep your private insurance in 2013 when the health plan begins

[Overseas]

41. My employer-based health insurance changed very often

Whenever we had a diligent CFO willing to shop around as the premiums jumped up and up and up. New insurance cards, new brokers, new lists of in-network and out-of-network doctors, new thick books full of fine print about the terms.

I also dislike employer-based health insurance because it has sanctioned age discrimination. Age is a pre-existing condition. Even though I try to stay healthy, I can't change my official age.

Employers have to pay premiums 300% higher to cover me vs someone in their 30's. My 25 years of experience and excellent references still may not overcome that barrier. Even if the premium costs are later tax-deductible expenses, the initial outlay is tough for small businesses and nonprofits to factor into their budgets in this crashed economy.