(HardBall) Howard Fineman: Sources: With Reconciliation No Public Option

[dsamuels0078]

buts lots of liberal window dressing

[countingbluecars]

1. Is this another rumor?

[Cha]

2. I'm guessing you heard this on tv and

howie fineman knows this because?

[dsamuels0078]

3. fineman

howard fineman said this on hardball

[DJ13]

4. When will our party "leaders" understand this is a watershed issue?

If our party blows this they will lose a large portion of the grassroots that got them elected in the first place.

[Teaser]

8. COMPREHENSION FAIL

interpretation: you can't get a public option via reconciliation. rules won't allow it.

[DJ13]

11. Not talking about reconcilliation

Im talking about voting for it as the majority.

You know, the 60 votes thats so often used as an excuse by our politicians.

[Teaser]

5. no way to get public option with reoconciliation

I doubt the parliamentarian would allow it.

[quiller4]

30. Actually the parliamentarian is one of those working to effect it.

[Pirate Smile]

6. It is because of the technical requirements of Reconciliation. Here is more info:

Ezra Klein:

Can Reconciliation Work for Health-Care Reform?

I've argued before that reconciliation will not work for comprehensive health-care reform. Today, Kevin Drum comes to the same conclusion. Stan Collender, a budget expert, backs him up. I go into the reasons in more detail here, but the Health Insurance Exchanges would probably be thrown out. The insurance market reforms would probably be thrown out. Prevention and wellness, modernization, delivery system reforms, and much else would likely be out the window. And we can't even quite predict what would be lost, so it's hard to know what would actually work at the end of the day. We could end up with a bill that simply doesn't work, much as a car doesn't function without a transmission system.

But the 2004 Dean proposal, which I've been talking about lately, offers a good example of the sort of bill you could pass. Dean basically folds the Children's Health Insurance Program and Medicaid into one program called the Families and Children Health Insurance Program and makes everyone up to 185 percent of the poverty line eligible for it. He also allows people between the ages of 55 and 65 to buy into Medicare. He creates a tax credit for people in the middle.

Those changes alone would be a lot less than what we're looking at in health-care reform. They would cover, and help, many millions fewer than the House bill. But they would nevertheless help a lot of people. And they are directly related to federal programs and directly reliant on federal expenditures. Fund them through Medicare and Medicaid changes, alongside a small surtax on the wealthy, and it's tough to see anything that would give the Senate parliamentarian cause to object.

That's not a great outcome, but that's probably the best you can get in reconciliation, and it would be a step forward. And as a conceptual matter, that's probably the best way to think about reconciliation: as a place where you can aggressively expand public programs, rather than a place where you can reform the American health-care system. Depending on how you look at it, it's second, or third, or fifth-best. But it's better than nothing.

By Ezra Klein | August 18, 2009; 5:05 PM ET

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/can_reconciliation_work_for_he.html


This is the link mentioned above "I go into the reasons in more detail here" re the technical requirements of Reconcilliation and the Rules - http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_fifty_vote_senate

[Teaser]

9. stop being rational

it's not welcome here.

[Pirate Smile]

14. I'm sorry. Should I just rage against Rahm and Obama as being sell outs?

[eleny]

25. This makes sense

I've always been for expanding existing programs like Medicare and SCHIP. Then, there would be a smaller number to absorb later out of sheer decency.

I just don't know how you also deal with the component of those with pre existing conditions.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. Stan Collender is a brilliant guy and a longtime staffer on the budget committee.

If he says it can't happen, I believe him. I think the Dean plan would be a good alternative to the public option, especially if combined with the creation of the non-profit co-ops.

[polichick]

7. It's true that you can't do everything through reconciliation...

This has been discussed on several shows.

[dsamuels0078]

10. oh

if we can't get po with 50 votes, what's the point

[polichick]

13. #6 talks about what we could get - interesting. nt

[frazzled]

19. Yeah, but what we could get, as outlined in #6, is tremendously weaker than ...

even the current bills without the public option. Why do you think even Krugman has been trying to play down the public option lately?

Really, people like to pretend this is all easy, but it is a legislative a nightmare.

I still hope the best option is that we can cut a deal with errant Democratic senators to oppose a filibuster (i.e., vote for cloture) and let them vote against the final bill. But somehow nobody thinks this is really possible. I dunno.

Something will get passed, however. It may just be so weak as to not matter. And by weak I don't mean a bill without a public option. I mean a bill that puts no regulation on the current insurance industry.

[polichick]

20. It really is a "legislative nightmare" but I do like the idea of expanding Medicare. nt

[Inuca]

16. You can get CERTAIN things

but not all. I cannot remember the details, too byzantine. I think it has something to do with the budget; issuea that can be shown to be related to the budget can be voted on through reconciliation. But I may be wrong on this.

[Inuca]

12. O'Donnell keeps coming back to this

and keeps explaining why reconciliation is not the wonderful solutions to all problems that some assume it to be. And O'Donnell understand how the Senate works and their arcane rules.

[polichick]

Yes, he is really good with this confusing stuff! nt

[MarjorieG]

22. Believe it's Byrd Rule. Why can't we do Medicare lowering age, plus insurance reforms separately.

[ErinBerin84]

15. yes, but he specified because of "legislative rules"

[Cha]

17. This feels like a good place to post the new WH website..

"SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT"

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/settingtherecord

Cha --

It feels like a new lie about health insurance reform crops up each day. Government taking over all health care? Not true. Euthanasia for seniors? Couldn't be more false. Rationing of care? Reform will stop rationing, not increase it.

These lies create fear and anger, and we're seeing the results around the country. Frightened crowds have flooded town halls, and the office of a Georgia representative was defaced with a swastika.

It's time to set the record straight -- and, more importantly, expose the special interests and partisan attack organizations behind the lies and misinformation.

That's why we created our new "Setting the Record Straight" site. Check out the site today and then spread the word to your friends.

As the site makes clear, these lies are no accident. They're part of a deliberate plot by the special interests who profit from the status quo to kill any reform at all. While Americans watch their paychecks dwindle, their coverage disappear, and their businesses struggle, special interests are trying to scare folks into opposing reform.

Our "Setting the Record Straight" site has all the info you need to fight back, as well as easy ways to get involved in the fight for health insurance reform. We'll be updating it often with new information debunking health care lies, so stop by regularly.

As we learned during the campaign, lies like these can spread like wildfire through viral emails and from friend to friend. The best way to stop them is to arm yourself with the facts -- and make sure your friends and family know the truth.

Check out the site, and share it with everyone you know:

http://my.barackobama.com/record

Thanks,

Mitch

Mitch Stewart
Director
Organizing for America

P.S. -- Reminder: President Obama is holding a live strategy meeting on Thursday at 2:30 p.m. Eastern Time for all Organizing for America supporters. Click here to RSVP and submit a question for President Obama.

[bigwillq]

18. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[dsamuels0078]

21. guys

Without Public Option , Obama becomes Jimmy Carter

[invictus]

23. A requirement for all to buy private health insurance instead of a public option.

My prediction is that Congress will pass a bill with these features:

1) Instead of a public option, there will be a requirement to buy private health insurance with government subsidies for those who cannot afford it. Insurers will be prohibited from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
2) There will be a ban on importation of all medications. Drug companies will also get an increase in the number of years before drug patents expire.

Absolutely nothing will be done to control the increase in the costs of health care.

[Thrill]

24. They don't need reconciliation. They just need all Democrats to vote for Cloture

[whykie]

26. From Fineman's blog the Gaggle:

From Fineman's blog the Gaggle:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2009/08/18/fineman-the-democrats-new-strategy-on-health-reform.aspx

There's only one potential problem with this plan, and it could be a huge one. His name is Alan Frumin. He is the Senate parliamentarian. His job is officially non-partisan and his reputation for probity and independence is impeccable. It will be up to him to decide whether much of what Senate leaders want to do in a simple-majority "reconciliation" vote is valid under Senate rules. Simply put, everything in the bill is supposed to relate to balancing the budget. It's a definition that can be stretched -- and that Senate leaders will need to stretch to win reluctant House liberals.

Remember Frumin: he could decide whether 50-218 is a winning formula, or just another losing lottery ticket.

[berni_mccoy]

28. This is why they are going to break the bill up into pieces. Reform first

then a public option second, based on an existing program.

And welcome to DU.

[whykie]

thank u for the welcome.

:-)

[BlueIdaho]

29. How about this through reconciliation - Medicare for all.

Will that work?

[DU GrovelBot]

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