Hey, Remember When? (Part Duh!)

[NanceGreggs]

Remember when you sat down to watch the nightly news and/or “Entertainment Tonight” – and you could actually tell the difference between the two?

Remember when people who were protesting something actually knew what they were pissed-off about – and had the correctly-spelled signs to prove it?

Remember when the local valley-speak, duh, whatever, just sayin’ crowd were hangin’ out at the mall – instead of hosting their own “news” shows?

Remember when “healthcare insurance” was exactly that, insurance – and not a polite term for extortion?

Remember when being a “hard-working American” meant you were the backbone of a nation – and not its most dispensable organ?

Remember when “journalist” denoted participation in an honorable profession – and wasn’t appropriately preceded nor proceeded by the terms “media whore”, “sell-out”, “corporate flunky”, or “lyin’ douchebag”?

Remember when self-proclaimed Christians adhered to the teachings of Jesus – instead of the maniacal ravings of preachers with one hand on the ass of a choir boy, and the other in the collection plate?

Remember when you didn’t bring a knife to a gunfight – or a gun to a healthcare debate?

Remember when a “twit” was someone you ignored – and not something your nightly news coverage was based on?

Remember when “fair and balanced” meant just that – and wasn’t a euphemism for oh-my-god-crap-on-a-stick-and-then-some-why-don’t-you-believe-this-shit-are-you-some-kind-of-commie-pedophile-know-nothing-bastard-looking-to-make-trouble type of message?

Remember when supporting a president (R) during a time of war was the height of patriotism – and then it wasn’t (D)?

Remember when people like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman were considered the perfect contestants for the Gong Show – instead of being the perfect choices for higher political office?

Remember when torture was the despicable thing the other side did – and not the noble cause WE engaged in?

Remember when the US president was met with scorn and ridicule in foreign nations and that was a good thing – as opposed to a US president being greeted with respect and accolades being a bad thing?

Remember when “think tanks” were meant to denote a meeting of the minds – and not a congregation of intellectually-flabby wusses who fantasize about how macho they sound when spewing utter nonsense – while dressed in tank tops?

Remember when a LIE was called just that – a lie – and wasn’t couched in phrases like taken out of context, an abridged version of the facts, or excused by outright idicocy, e.g. ”Honest to God, my people never told me that Iowa is actually a state – how was I supposed to know?”

Remember when “taking care of your own” meant your fellow Americans – and not the interests of corporations that are taking care of themselves?

Remember when being an (R) or a (D) meant a difference in political opinion – and wasn’t a measure of patriotism or one’s love of country?

Remember when we agreed to disagree – but stood together nonetheless?

I remember that last one – kinda sorta – before the MSM turned D v R into the latest “reality” game show, before politicians could make up their own “facts” and cite them unchallenged on the nightly news, before the citizenry was encouraged to arm themselves against non-existent “death panels” and countries who held non-existent WMDs, before the corporate-controlled media decided to sit back and watch the mayhem they themselves had created – while holding out their hands for the dollars generated by sponsoring the decline of their own country.

Remember when a 60-second commercial, at a cost of eight figures, was broadcast in the middle of our country’s decline into chaos, violence, mayhem and death was all the rage - product placement in a time of global unrest that got the masses on-board with spending their last dollar on something they didn't want - or need?

My children will remember. So will yours.

Unless we stop it - now.

Do what you can, how you can, when you can. No effort is too small to be remembered - when.

[bigjohn16]

1. No.

I came into politics during the era of Bush so no. It's been a shit sandwich from the start for me.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Honestly, my dear Nance...

I do not know how you do this.

Week after week, knocking them out of the park, all with original thinking, all with the most detailed ideas I have ever seen in one place...

And this one is NO exception!

Thank you, sweetie...

K&R

:hug:

[ccharles000]

3. k/r

always great

[Agent William]

4. Wow

I was born into this generation, and I have a difficult time imagining what it must be like without everything in this country being treated like a game. I have a hard time imagining a time when not everything had a profit motive or other such corporate device. Looking at the whole modern situation it appears as though this country is progressing backwards. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Thanks

K&R

[Mythsaje]

5. There was, like, about five minutes in between everything

when half of this was true, right? Between the 50s "Anti-Red" propaganda and the 80s "Reaganomics and Greed" thing? Somewhere? Between the "filthy hippies" and the "rock is dead--we hate Woodstock and all it represents" stuff? Five minutes, right?

;)

We must've taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque.

[NanceGreggs]

7. No, there was a time, Grasshopper ...

... when the nightly news was fifteen minutes long, and didn't include editorializing.

There was a time when people like Walter Cronkite and Edward R. Murrow ruled the airwaves, as opposed to the Bill O'Reillys and Wolf Blitzers.

There actually WAS a time.

[Mythsaje]

8. Yeah, I remember some of that...

But it really was a narrow little slice of time in some respects, wasn't it?

[tbyg52]

30. I agree with you.

a) It was a small slice of time - unfortunately, as the OP describes a beautiful dream, and b) I don't think there was even a *small* slice of time when *all* of this was true. But it is pretty to think so. And a better country is certainly something to strive for.

Edited for a small addition and a change of punctuation.

[Mojorabbit]

15. I grew up with Cronkite

and news you could trust. I have been watching these frightened seniors at the town hall meetings and I think they may not realize that they can no longer trust the "news" ,that things have changed.

[JeffR]

6. I barely remember, despite paying obsessive attention for years.

Have to think at this point that the corporate power structure is banking on my failing memory.

But hey, I've heard rumors of a dynamite new Doritos flavor debuting sometime soon. So I guess all is not lost.

[Mithreal]

9. Excellent post, thank you. K&R nt

[Oldtimeralso]

10. Remember When

The President had a sign on his desk that said.
"The Buck Stops Here"

Yes I am one of the early Boomers and he was the POTUS when I was born.

[lapfog_1]

11. Sort of...

I remember most of the sixties... but even then, you had Goldwater (who, by today's standards, would be considered a blue dog democrat I guess), and the John Birch society (who were viewed, rightly, as kooks).

Then came Nixon, and with the war in Vietnam, the right and left were not very civil to each other... but more importantly, the older folks were not very civil to the younger adults, and vice versa.

But Nixon and Watergate... yeah, we weren't very "agree to disagree" then.

After that, Ford and Carter... yeah, a lot more civility. But Carter STARTED the whole "democrats aren't patriotic" bullshit. I mean, the rat fuckers came out in force at the end of the Carter years. And then there was Reagan. Even though he was kinda grandpa like, he never quite came off as kind. And his policies. Yikes. Things weren't very civil then, with trickle down John Stockman and that asshole "don't know how many more generations of Americans there will be" James Watt. And Ollie North. And then Bush I, and he didn't waste any time pissing off the left. And then Clinton came along, and for some reason, they hated him, with a passion. I remember the day I became a "radical" leftist was the day Newt shutdown government (I was working at NASA at the time). I hated the repukes then, and have ever since.


So... when were those times again? When we all got along? Right after Rodney King maybe? For like a week.

[Prism]

12. I'll bite

As I read the list, I was mentally ticking off various points in our history where all the things lamented above not only existed, but they were incomparably worse. I suppose every generation has an impulse to feel that their time is the worst ever, that there is a uniqueness and extraordinariness belonging wholly to them, but it is simply untrue when viewed under the broader scope of history.

The political parties have always been at each others' throats. Political debate and unrest were far more turbulent in the past than they are today. No one, anywhere, ever has approved of the job the media does. Newspapers in the past were far more partisan, cheerfully reported far more lies about politicians, and tried far, far harder to deceive the American public to do their bidding. The notion of an objective, Solomon-like media is largely a myth (one the media aren't exactly shy about promoting). Religion was far more puritanical than it is today. After all, it was partially under the paper thin pretense of Christianization that Europeans and their descendants visited genocide on Native Americans. We'll not discuss how the Bible was used as an authoritative source to justify everything from slavery and Jim Crow to seeing and treating women as property. Patriotism and nationalism were far more powerful forces within the culture than they are today. We might have argued about it over the last eight years, but largely no one actually did anything about it outside a few ribbons and signs. The anti-immigrant sentiment and resulting violent riots during the great influx of migrants in the late 19th and early 20th centuries make today's "tea parties" look like a minor bridge tournament.

Things aren't what I would categorize as good, but they're not The Worst Ever, and believing all these developments to be new or unique to our democracy is to betray a lack of knowledge of what has come before. Nostalgia is a generally benevolent force, but it is also a distorting one. Distortion of history disallows us to learn from it, and I think we should endeavor to avoid that sort of thing. Yes, try harder, move forward, do better. But never at the expense of forgetting the past.

I'm sorry, but the above list is just a yearning for a golden age that never actually existed.

JMO.

[NanceGreggs]

13. A time never existed ...

... when the average TV viewer knew the difference between news broadcasts and "Entertainment Tonight"?

Obviously you weren't there.

[Prism]

14. Say what you will

But I've never mistaken Billy Bush for Charlie Gibson. I can't imagine most other people do either.

What you're really lamenting under that point is the fact that we have far more choices in media than ever imagined, and that media must compete for eyeballs in a way they never have before. But that is a freedom we wanted. We wanted choice, we wanted more information, and in that we wanted stories about celebrities and gossip and scandal. We always have as a people. After all, before there was the Great National Clenis Obsession, there was Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. There was Andrew Jackson and the rumored bigamy of his wife, Rachel.

Now that we have more media, we have more of everything. With all that freedom comes a responsibility to be more discerning.

You're lamenting a time when there was very little choice. When "Here's the news a small group of us have decided to give you." When there were three networks and that was it. It's a different and, imo, better world now. I realize some would say "Corporate media only tell you what they want you to know!" but I made the choice long ago not to bother about things like cable news or even most major newspapers. If I want to know more, I can now seek information out in a way unrivalled in all human history. I like having this freedom, even if that means other people don't use it as well as you or I might.

What this really is, it seems to me, is a kind of "Sigh, America, so full of idiots." Which is fine. Hatred and condescension isn't my thing, but it's part of politics and bothering about it on a message board is not very good. I would only point out that it takes only the most cursory of glances even on this message board to see the very same dynamic you dislike practiced to the same degree for the same purposes with the same prejudices. Every day, people here post diaries and blogs and little internet snippets and interpret them as Gospel Truth because they reflect their preconceived notions of how the world works. I could not care less about every dull real and imagined facet of Sarah Palin's life, and yet how many endless threads about all of that did we have? The barriers between opinion, speculation, entertainment, and concrete fact become ever blurred.

But that is a deep, fundamental nature of political conflict in a society with vigorous media. Always has been, always will be. Media have always mixed in entertainment, always had gossip columns, always made much ado about celebrities who were inconsequential in the scheme of things, always distracted the people with the great circus of it all.

There's nothing new in the acts, only the form they take as our technology evolves.

[NanceGreggs]

16. Honestly, no offence but ...

If you're talking Charlie Gibson, you're too young to know what I'm talking.

[Prism]

17. I assume . . .

. . . you're talking about the age of Murrow and Cronkite as that better time.

However, your OP laments the blurring of lines in today's media, hence the mention of contemporary media figures representing entertainment vs. nightly news.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prism]

21. And who am I supposed to be?

I welcome the mods checking any and all logs. I've always been this one name here. I mainly lurked for years and didn't start posting in earnest until the primaries, with a major ratcheting up as LGBT issues became more heated.

On the other hand, I have no idea who you are. If you wish to quibble with the points I made, please do. If not, please refrain from violating the rules. Thanks.

[NanceGreggs]

22. Thanks, Binka ...

... and you KNOW I have your back. Always.

[ShortnFiery]

24. Isn't this supposed to be a message board which welcomes divergent and enlightened

viewpoints. Yes?

Please consider that you both have made cogent points?

Further, YOU BOTH are excellent commentators/writers and we (the fellow members of DU) enjoy "the banter" as often-times we can fall into an echo chamber.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Well put, with one notable exception: The AMERICAN Catholic Church has become more right wing.

As a Catholic who is now genuinely experiencing "a crisis of faith" I can attest with veracity that my beloved faith has been taken over by right wing zealots whose only cause is to intimidate teenage girls into a lack of birth control options while cheering on GW Bush although two Popes DENOUNCED the "unjust war" which was the Invasion of Iraq.

"The U.S. invasion and war of occupation of Iraq has been denounced by TWO popes. On March 18, 2003, the Apostolic Delegate indicated that a person ignoring the papal directive for more diplomatic negotiations through the United Nations "assumes a serious responsibility before God, his conscience and history." Now, in Catholic theology "serious responsibility" translates as "mortal sin." There is no doubt that the invasion was unjustified: Roma locuta, causa finita est. Yet because the Vatican today has expressed concern about chaos if troop withdrawal is careless, the Catholic Conservatives try to confuse the absolute and clear denunciation of the invasion with papal caution about troop withdrawal. In effect, they are projecting Catholic teaching as a "flip-flop." It is not! Moreover, since I don't think they are stupid, I believe they are engaged in intentional deception, placing their McCainish politics ahead of their faith.

Catholic Conservatives like to act like gatekeepers for who is a "real Catholic" (themselves) and who is a "cafeteria Catholic" (everyone else). They seem not to know that the classic case of cafeteria Catholicism came from the conservative National Review, edited by the late William F. Buckley. Reacting to Blessed John XXIII's encyclical that supported the internationalism of the United Nations, the magazine ran with a cover that proclaimed: "Mater, Sí; Magistra, No." A clearer case of doctrinal relativism is hard to find. Unfortunately, the Catholic Conservatives have continued to "game' our faith today, and it's sad."

[Prism]

25. 100% agree

Though it has been a soft trend developing over many years with their biggest anchor in abortion rights, the conservative American church really hit their hard politicization moment when Senator Kerry ran in 2004. The way those bishops lined up on the political chessboard to do Republican bidding seemed unprecedented. It was as if the American Church finally went rogue.

It's dismaying. Despite my very deep disagreements with the Vatican on things like women's rights and LGBT equality, I think they could be a great liberal force on issues of war, criminal justice, poverty, and the environment if only they'd save those issues from the repeated eclipse by social policy.

But we know the conservative American bishops will have none of that. I have a deep suspicion the election of even a slightly socially liberal pope would engender a crisis similar to the Anglican schisms.

[saltpoint]

20. Seems like things are real complex and we probably can't fix it all in

one weekend, or even two.

But by god we could do better than we're doing. We could "do what we can, how we can, when we can."

Bravo, Nance.

[PatSeg]

26. That was real?

I thought it was a recurring dream!

We've made a lot of progress in many areas - i.e. civil rights and woman's rights, but the News has turned into "reality TV". The news used to be a network obligation and was not profit oriented. Serious journalists exposed Joseph McCarthy and Watergate. The world was far from perfect, but we were evolving.

[unpossibles]

27. another great one

Sadly, things are not that way, and worse: the crybabies on the right (not saying everyone on the right is a crybaby) will be the first ones to rant and rave about being oppressed whenever we call them out on it. We get accused of being intolerant and divisive because we're sick of their intolerant, divisive crapstorm.

I am largely optimistic but I think some major shifts are going to have to happen first, from making the news a trusted source of information again, to us as a culture respecting people who are hard working and intelligent and who try to better themselves instead of calling them "elite" as if that were a bad thing. Until we can stop the constant propaganda - not censor it so much as make sure it stays honest somehow - then we're fighting an uphill battle against an opponent who 'controls the past' to paraphrase Orwell.

[Cha]

28. WOW, Nance..you killed!

"Remember when being a “hard-working American” meant you were the backbone of a nation – and not its most dispensable organ?"

Rec'd to go Viral and Rec to be sent to the White House and hay..KO, Rachel, etc, etc.:patriot::patriot:

[The Wizard]

29. Yes the memories of a civil society

Republicans like to remember the days of lynching people without fear of prosecution.

[HopeOverFear]

31. ++++++1

A+ posting, would read again.

[amb123]

32. Remember the good old days of Capitalism, when

when you gave some of your hard-earned money to someone and ACTUALLY GOT SOMETHING BACK in return?!

The Health Insurance Companies, who spend all their time finding excuses NOT to render a service that people actually PAY MONEY FOR, don't even understand SIMPLE CAPITALISM!

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

[bertman]

34. Yes, I do remember a lot of those things, Nance. Most of them are dead-on. But I

tend to feel that we are overly nostalgic for Cronkite and company (I was still too young to know which end was up when Murrow was on the tube) since the revelations that the heads of the major networks and many of the anchors and so-called journalists were in league with the CIA and FBI in telling the story that the government wanted. Certainly the shallowness and inanity of teevee news we see now is beyond awful. So bad in fact that I almost never watch unless there's a non-political event unfolding--like Katrina.

You are right that we need to do everything we can NOW to try to stop it. Seems like the only viable option is to turn off the idiot box. Getting the addicts to kick their habit is going to be tough though.

Thanks for the walk through memory lane.

Recommend.

[PSzymeczek]

35. Damn, Nance!

You rock!

[chasitynola]

36. I love your stuff

Nance...and I do remember...

[tilsammans]

37. You are always brilliant, Nance . . .

. . . and this one is exceptional! Thank you. :applause:

PS: I remember when "Entertainment Tonight" was actually about entertainment, and not fish-wrap tabloid gossip trash.

[avaistheone1]

38. Very thoughtful piece I plan to share with friends.

Great job.

[safeinOhio]

39. I love people like you that

Have the skill and ability to put into words what I'm thinking. I'd add to that, remember when we were not the silent majority?

[liberaltrucker]

40. I remember all too well

Which explains why the meds were increased.......
.....................while I can still afford them.

:banghead:

[sasquatch]

41. This was before America's worst generation took over the country

[akbacchus_BC]

42. Excellent post Nance as usual, K&R. You are such a wonderful

voice of reason on here. Wish I can recommend again!

[defendandprotect]

43. Remember when commercials were less than half as long as they are now?

Great post which got me "remembering" ...

I was never one to sit and watch the news - read a lot of newspapers, tho --
and they were far from telling us all we needed to know, even then.

Never found Sunday Talk Shows to be anything but fake --

but what a thrill when Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, Bobby Kennedy, JFK came along!
Everything opened up ...
And then it was over.

We have to get corporations out of our elections --
We need to end campaign finance BRIBERY ...
and "pre-owned" candidates/elected officials!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Did it all begin with "Eye Witless News" . . . we used to make fun of it!
Soon it was all Eye Witless News.

Remember the police riot during the Democratic Convention -- bloodied kids everywhere.
OTOH, police are still beating up protestors --

You can't forget Fannie Lou Hamer - there was truth, finally.
Her voice, her words, her heart in every moment as she told us what was really happening
in the world.

Remember thinking our elections were honest?

Used to have totally paid for health care -- even dental care.

But females only made 50% of what males made, then --

Remember when Watergate/Wood-stein inspired new journalists? Except, it seemed
to have inspired them to seek fame and fortune rather than truth.

Remember when every one was expected to go to church on Sundays?
Celebrate Easter with new clothes -- go to midnight Mass on Christmas Eve?
And then came along the wonders of Pope John XXIII and Vatican II!

Remember when we denied the U-2 downing?

When Castro was a hero -- and then he was a "socialist" - our enemy!

And when we actually expected the press to investigate the assassination of JFK.

Remember the Pentagon Papers?

Watergate hearings -- Clarence Thomas hearings --

Remember when we didn't really get why everyone elsewhere was complaining about capitalism!
"Yankee go home!" . . .

Roe vs Wade - a complete surprise!

Remember appliances that really worked and didn't break overnight?

And when journalists would occasionally ask a blunt/hard question?

Remember when we weren't quite sure if "Broadcast News" was about insanity or delivering a
message we really needed to get?

"The myth of a free press died with the assassination of JFK" ------

[raventattoo]

44. I burst laughing out loud at this:

"Remember when self-proclaimed Christians adhered to the teachings of Jesus – instead of the maniacal ravings of preachers with one hand on the ass of a choir boy, and the other in the collection plate?"

Hit recommend immediately. Did not see it was Nance until that time which was great because I was just thinking today I had not read any posts from her recently.

Thanks Nance!!! I'm going to sleep well after that laugh.

K/R!

:kick:

[winyanstaz]

45. I love it...as usual you hit the nail on the head :)

Thanks Nancy :)

[LooseWilly]

46. Alas.. requiem of a Golden Age...

Golden Wonder Years of Yore!!... where have ye pissed off to?...

Degenerated to this Modern Age of Eminenent Dissolution...

Even Delinquency is No Longer Done Right!!

(What a bunch of assholes this generation is... :tinfoilhat:)


... just because all that one once held as holy has been co-opted... doesn't mean that things have changed... only that the target demographics have changed, and the elements of society that must be co-opted in order to win over target demographics are (perhaps) now elements that... one once held dear- because one has now been "promoted" to target demographic status.

http://adweek.blogs.com/adfreak/2009/06/five-worst-and-best-songs-in-commercials.html
(One doesn't have to be of Cronkite-Remembering-Age to see how things are co-opted for institutional/corporate uses.)

[BrklynLiberal]

47. I am always sorry that I can only rec your posts one time....

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

"Remember when people like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman were considered the perfect contestants for the Gong Show – instead of being the perfect choices for higher political office?"

[Peacetrain]

48. I remember when..

:hi:

[GAtomboy]

49. I'm moved to reply :)

I don't post/reply much on here, but that was a GREAT post. It is so sad to realize that this country has become D U M B. A great point made by the fact people are protesting and they don't even really know WHAT they are protesting.

I have to give a shout out to Rachel Maddow because I believe she is one of the few real journalists left on TV, she's not afraid to call people out on their bullshit (no matter what party they belong to) and I love her for it!!!

[bridgit]

50. I remember when Dems understood the value of product placement

[stevenleser]

51. K&R - Always love my Nance!

Very similar to some of the themes of a book I am in the midst of writing...