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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:52 AM
Original message
Laying the Groundwork for a Letdown
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019506.php

Sen. Kent Conrad (D) of North Dakota told Fox News this morning that there's no point in pursuing a public option as part of health care reform. It's futile, he said, to continue to "chase that rabbit" because it doesn't have 60 votes. "The fact of the matter is there are not the votes in the United States Senate for a public option. There never have been," Conrad added.

As a procedural matter, Conrad's point is largely wrong. If a reform bill reaches the floor, and every Democrat in the chamber agrees that the legislation should get an up-or-down vote, reform with a public option needs 50, not 60, votes. The issue, then, is whether there are some Democratic senators who would vote with Republicans on a filibuster. Conrad seems to be suggesting there are. Indeed, he might very well be one of them.

And with that in mind, it seems the White House is slowly beginning to make the case that health care reform may pass without a public option. We heard it this morning....

"I think there will be a competition to private insurers," Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said in an interview that aired Sunday on CNN's State of the Union, "that really is the essential part, that you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. We need some choices, we need some competition." <...>

Sebelius also told CNN Chief National Correspondent John King that "what's important is choice and competition." A public option "is not an essential element," the Cabinet secretary said Sunday.

...and we heard it yesterday.

"The public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of healthcare reform. This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it," Obama said. "And by the way, it's both the right and the left that have become so fixated on this that they forget everything else."

It's a point that's been coming up more and more lately.

Part of the problem, as I see it, is strategic. Consider any set of negotiations, in any context. One side says, "I'm dead-set against X under any circumstances." The other side says, "I'd really like X, but I'm willing to give up on it as part of our talks." Guess what happens to X? Any chance X is going to survive the negotiations? Not so much.

The same is true here. Even for Democratic policymakers in Congress and the administration who think quality, meaningful health care reform is possible without a public option, there's a temptation to tell them, "Shhh! If reform advocates signal a willingness to compromise on a public option, it's dead." Indeed, hearing the president's remarks yesterday, and Sebelius' comments this morning, it's hardly a stretch to think the proposal is, at this point, in very deep trouble.

Which then leads to the question of whether reform can still be worthwhile without a public option. Opinions, obviously, vary quite a bit, but I'm reminded of something Paul Krugman said recently: "It's not so much that the public option has to be in the final bill, but if it's not in, there better damn well be something else, some really serious reforms. In a sense, it has become a litmus test. If the bill does not have a public option, it's going to take a much, much higher bar on the rest of it to get me to accept it."

From where I sit, I really want a public option. I think a public option makes a lot of sense, it should be in the bill, and I applaud those who are fighting tooth and nail to get it in the bill. That said, as per Krugman, if lawmakers drop the public option, the rest of the legislation better be pretty damn amazing.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thosei n congress against it should give up their own healthcare.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Until Profit is Taken Out of Health Care
Americans will never be safe.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. and we should never pretend that we are
the "best" society until then either.

A society that puts personal profit and worships money over the health and well being of it's citizens is NOT the "best" America our ancestors set out to form.

MLKjr. said:

"We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered."
— Martin Luther King Jr.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Screw you and your buddy Max Baucus and the jerkoff lying bastard from Iowa
that HE'S working so hard with. All we need is 51 votes and I suspect that it'll either be; Get on board or be seen as obstructionists by your constituency. the rats who right now are deserting the sinking ship will be clawing to climb back aboard.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Good points. Thanks for posting.
:hi:
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hey Dummie, it doesn't NEED 60 votes.
It needs 50. Cloture needs 60. So you'd vote against cloture too?
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Health care reform that doesn't work
Edited on Sun Aug-16-09 12:09 PM by Turbineguy
is a victory for the repubs.

See, it doesn't work. We told you so.

Public option will allow insurance companies to continue to rake people over the coals, while collecting profits. Those who get sick and are denied care by their insurer will go to public option which will then suffer from adverse selection.

Public option will still be less expensive than our current system (including all real costs) but it will be a boondoggle. Repubs will fight to discontinue because it will cost more than our current system minus not accounted for costs, which they will use to paint a false picture.

It's really quite simple. The repubs are out to fuck America. We used to have the Soviet Union as our enemy. Now we have the republican party.

The real answer is a basic single payer system with private insurance for those who wish for extras such as private hospital rooms etc (much the way Medicare is set up now). Actually insurance companies could make a higher margin on those policies since the underlying system would be much more efficient in providing care.

A Single payer system would have the pool size needed to offset adverse selection.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. A fucking blue dog on faux...does
he get money from insurance companies like baucus?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. Mandated Health Insurance without a Public Option....
72% of Americans who support a strong Public Option are going to be PISSED.

This is an open admission that the Democratic Party has been corrupted beyond redemption.

Elections have consequences.
Indeed!
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Reconcilliation doesn't require 60 votes
But it does require a fighter in the Whitehouse who's willing to take it to the Senators (and the "leadership") in the event they cave.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank You Democratic Party for showing you either cannot lead
or have no desire to lead.

GWB and Tom DeLay got came in with an agenda and by Gosh
they accomplished it.

I know now I can never depend on Democrats. What a Message.

Yes, I am being sarcastic but there is more truth than poetry
to how I feel at the moment.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm starting to wonder why I should waste time and money supporting Democrats
When the outcome isn't much different than under Republican control.
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