Poll: How comfortable are you with a candidate who worked with Enron?

[zulchzulu]

The term "working with Enron" would mean making deals with the company while being a person who held elected office.

[Lone Pawn]

1. Well...

When were they working with Enron, what did they know about it, and what kind of work was it?

This poll is misleading at best.

[zulchzulu]

2. Funny you asked...

The Boston Globe has a nice little article to check out in case you missed it:

Here's a tasty snip:

"As a presidential candidate, Dean has attacked Bush for giving tax breaks to "Ken Lay and the boys who ran Enron." But Enron apparently was attracted to Vermont because of the benefits offered under Dean's administration. Dean, who became governor in 1991, cut taxes in 1993 by up to 60 percent on the premiums paid by the parent companies to the captives at the same time he was raising the state sales tax and cutting spending. Dean's tax cuts on captives set off Vermont's boom in that industry.

In December 1994, Enron set up a captive insurance company called Gulf Company Ltd., which is managed by USA Risk Group, a company in Montpelier that specializes in managing captive insurance companies. Indicating the closeness of a captive to its parent corporation, Enron's former chief financial officer, Andrew Fastow, was on the Gulf board and made one appearance at USA Risk's Montpelier office, a company official said. (Fastow is no longer on the Gulf board, and Enron has filed for bankruptcy.)"

[Lone Pawn]

6. Oh, you mean

Normal, non-dastardly work back in 1994 before it was known that Enron were bastards. Okay. Just checking.

For the record, I don't particularly like Dean (being a Clarkite myself) but this poll rubs me the wrong way.

[funky_bug]

7. So Dean supporters...

Tell me why a link to Enron is okay, but a link to Acxiom isn't?

If it's shaky at best, then it's shaky at best on both sides of the battle field.

[KaraokeKarlton]

12. The thread starter is implying something that is totally false

and they KNOW it's totally false.

Before Dean became governor here in Vermont (a full ten years before) the Captive Insurance Industry came to Vermont. In 1993 the Captive Industry got a tax break. In 1995, two years AFTER the tax break was put in place, Enron opened a Captive Insurance company in Vermont. Anyone with half a brain cell can do the math and see that the break was in place 2 years before Enron opened their company. Also, no one knew Enron were such crooks in 1995, so the whole argument is moot anyhow. Some here would insist that "Dean gave Enron a tax cut" when the truth is that Enron saw a good environment for captives in Vermont and chose to open a company there two years AFTER the tax cut went into effect.

So basically, the accusation is nothing but a big steaming pile of elephant dung. :shrug:

[CTLawGuy]

3. I'm looking for...

"this poll is flamebait", but its not a choice in your poll...

[zulchzulu]

5. Can't handle something called the truth, my brother?

Do you find it rather odd that Dean mentions in his schtick about Bush making deals with Kenny Lay and the boys when he in fact was doing the same exact thing?

[LuminousX]

4. Wow... this is really pathetic.

[w4rma]

8. They are just tossing the bull in hopes that something sticks. (n/t)

[zulchzulu]

9. You're right. Dean making deals with Enron is pathetic, indeed

He knows firsthand how to deal with Kenny Lay and the boys.

[LuminousX]

14. Dean negotiating with a Captive Insurance company... no big deal.

Of course for you to know that you would have actually read up on the issue, processed it and learned something.

[zulchzulu]

18. So it's still legit or Dean to diss Ken Lay and Enron?

Put it this way. If Dean is the nominee, would he be able to trash Bush on his dealings with Enron when he in fact is on record with dealing with Enron while Lay was in charge?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

[Duder]

10. I voted I wouldn't care...

...because I thought you were referring to Teresa Kerry.

[zulchzulu]

16. Was that an 'elective office"?

I've never heard THK say anything about Lay. Perhaps you have a link for that.

[Duder]

21. Here's the link again

In raw form:

http://www.nonprofitwatch.org/heinz/extended.html

'For eight years Teresa maintained a close relationship with Ken Lay. Since 1995 Mr. Lay served as a trustee of the Heinz Center for Economics, Environment and Science which Teresa founded to memorialize her late husband. Teresa, as well Fred Krupp the executive director of Teresa's main environmental philanthropy Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), also served as trustees.

Oddly, Mr. Lay served as a trustee even after Enron's demise -- a pamphlet obtained from the Heinz Center in the spring of 2003 listed him as a trustee affiliated with Lay Interests LLC. This seems odd in light of Kerry's highly critical comments of Enron.

It is probable that as a wealthy trustee of the group, Mr. Lay was a major donor to the project; about this NonprofitWatch.org has no information, but this should be something for Teresa and the Heinz Center to reveal to the public.'

[quinnox]

11. Very uncomfortable

Check out this website for some recent news articles about Dean's connection with Enron.

[KaraokeKarlton]

15. Gephardt's anti-Dean site?

Sorry, I don't trust anyone who buried their nose up Bush's bung hole in the Rose Garden. Gephardts a liar, too.

[quinnox]

19. There are many factual quotes on the site

Dean's own words.

[Closer]

13. How's the weather in Arizona Zulch?

:shrug:

[zulchzulu]

17. Arizona? Me?

I do like Tucson though. Nice golf courses... nice hiking on the Kaibab Plateau. Try it sometime... it's an Enron-free zone.

[Closer]

22. Ooops, my bad.

That's right, you're not in Arizona.

Silly ole me.


"Nice golf courses"

Ok, I'll check it out sometime. But is there anywhere to pahk the cah?

[zulchzulu]

24. lol

Not in Boston either...lived there for a short while...JP and Back Bay.

[batman]

20. given what we knew about enron when the candidate in question did so

very

[Renew Deal]

23. Depends

not everyone was in on the crap there.

[Bucky]

25. I live in Houston. A lot of good people got taken in by the Fastow crowd

I'm not supporting Dean (who I think is the guy with some ties to Enron), but this is a total non-issue. It has no connections to the merits of a candidate's qualifications. I mean I'm really not supporting Dean. I'd do just about anything to keep him from the nomination. If this was even a marginally legitimate issue I'd be all over him like yellow on a post-it note.

But the fact is that Enron was HUGE and intentionally getting it's hooks into every venture they could find to fit their big fat elephant toes into. Like Savoir Faire, Enron was everywhere and working their con jobs on everybody they got near. Dean seems like a well meaning decent guy. You'd have to have a race down to Dean, Sharpton, and Lieberman before I'd support him. Though I'll gladly work my ass off for him if he's nominated, his supporters can still expect Holy Handgrenades from me about him until the last loser drops. But he doesn't strike me as a crook. If he has ties to Enron, it's not a big deal. Enron went out of their way to tie themselves to every politician who'd take their calls.

Again we have DUers issuing virginity tests to see how many knots we can ties ourselves into before the general election. This is a real character flaw that the Democrats have and I for one am ready to move beyond it.

[Moderator]

26. Locking...

6. You may not start a new discussion thread in order to continue a current or recent flame war from another thread. The moderators have the authority to lock threads in order to contain flaming on a particular topic to only one thread at a time.


Thanks,
DU Moderator