Arne Duncan messing around in NYC schools. Demands mayoral control, no parent input...

[madfloridian]

and no checks and balances. This is from a blog at Huffington Post by Leonie Haimson.

"Leonie Haimson is a public school parent and Executive Director of Class Size Matters, as well as the founder of the NYC Public School Parent blog. She is also one of the contributors to a recent book, NYC Schools Under Bloomberg/Klein: What Parents, Teachers and Policymakers Need to Know, available at Lulu.com."

She presents an unpleasant picture of our new Secretary of Education messing around in NYC schools. This concerns me, as I would think his job would be much broader in nature now. Since Duncan is from Chicago, I wonder why he thinks his influence on New York schools should be so great.

Arne Duncan Has Become an Embarrassment

Arne Duncan, the U.S. Secretary of Education, has become a laughing stock here in New York City. He has rashly inserted himself into local politics by repeatedly urging the New York state legislature to renew unlimited mayoral control, with no checks and balances and no parent input allowed.

In June, at the behest of Mayor Bloomberg, Duncan wrote a letter to the Citizens Union, a local good government group, stating that fixed terms for school board members whom the mayor could not fire at will would have "profoundly negative consequences for New York City's students."

He gave his support to continuing a board of education that is recognized to be a rubberstamp for the Mayor. The board has been recognized as such ever since Bloomberg got rid of two of his own appointees the night before they were to vote on his controversial grade retention proposals, in a notorious episode known as the "Monday night massacre."

..."He has consistently ignored the fact that the most credible measures of student achievement, the National Assessment of Education Progress, as provided by his own agency, the US Department of Education, show little or no improvement since Mayor Bloomberg's reforms were introduced in September 2003. In fact, as reported in our book, NYC Schools Under Bloomberg and Klein: What Parents, Teachers and Policymakers Need to Know, there has been no significant improvement in any grade or subject tested by NAEP in NYC except 4th grade math, and in that subject, 25 percent of students were provided with "accommodation" or extra help, far higher than in any other city.

Apparently Arne aligned himself with Rupert Murdoch to get the mayoral control of schools through in New York City.

The fruitful alliance of Arne Duncan and Rupert Murdoch

From Gotham School news August 7.


Rupert Murdoch and Arne Duncan. (Images via Creative Commons)

The New York Post patted its own back today, hard, for helping the state renew the mayor’s control of the public schools. The surprising thing is that Secretary of Education Arne Duncan joined in, thanking the newspaper, owned by the ambitious Rupert Murdoch, for its “leadership” and “thoughtfulness.”

New York City newspapers have a proud tradition of waging campaigns both on and off the editorial page, and then congratulating themselves when they hit their marks. But having a cabinet member for a sitting president join the cheering is more unusual.

“I think that must be out of context, that Arne Duncan is giving the Post credit for mayoral control,” the president of the principals’ union, Ernest Logan, said when I called to ask his impression.

Education Week covered this issue in March. They were not happy about it.

UPDATED: Arne Duncan Advocates Mayoral Takeover of Big-City Districts

Apparently not just New York City.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan grew up in a school system dominated by mayoral control. He's said he loses sleep at night over Detroit Public Schools. And he's weighed in on New York City's governance structure, declaring that the city's public schools are best left in the mayor's hands.

Now, as if the education secretary doesn't have enough going on, he's wading even further—and more dramatically—into the thorny issue of local control and school governance by declaring that more big-city mayors need to take over school districts. And if the numbers don't rise, he said according to Libby Quaid's Associated Press story, he "will have failed as secretary."

UPDATED: Read Libby's latest, in-depth coverage of Duncan's statements and the reaction. This includes Duncan's expanded pledge to actually go to cities and lobby on behalf of mayoral control.

This is tough talk from a guy who is now the very-publicized face of public education—at least on the federal level. And local and state officials don't usually appreciate comments from federal officials about how to govern local school districts. This is sure to irritate some of Duncan's base of support—like teachers' unions, the Council of Great City Schools, and the school boards association.

As a retired teacher, happily retired....I am fearful of many of the changes going on in education. I am going to write more about this. I have written about the push for more and harder testing, and then when there is success it is ignored. They just start pushing again for more and harder testing.

Putting one man in charge of large city schools without other input is not wise.

[babylonsister]

1. He's messing around at schools? Damn the nerve. nt

[madfloridian]

2. Well, since I am never sure of the tone of your responses...

I don't know if you are aware that this will give ammunition about the government intruding their desires into local schools.

But then Arne Duncan was appointed by the president, and I guess that is what he wants of him. :shrug:

[waiting for hope]

43. Another step into turning all public schools

into charter schools - I believe that is the goal. K&R and thanks for staying on top of this.

[Raineyb]

5. Actually, this has been a bone of contention as the current mayor is not remotely

interested in hearing what the parents have to say and there are parents groups who are not at all happy with such a situation at all. Bloomberg of course is not really interested in hearing what any of us who are not rich and members of the elite have to say about anything in the city but I digress.

[madfloridian]

6. Not allowing for any input but the mayor....not a good idea.

Our mayor is a good ole boy and buddy buddy with the right wing religious groups. I dread to think of his being in charge of education without other input.

I am having to assume something here. I am gathering since this post has already has 4 unrecs...a post I did not even expect to get recs at all..it's not the type. But I am gathering that people here think mayors should be in charge of school systems. That or Arne is off limits.

[madfloridian]

7. Never mind...down to 0 now and heading for negative territory.

Arne is not to be criticized, people approve of mayors running schools, or it is personal.

One of three.

Not the type of post for recommends anyway, but why the unrecs? I see a lot of this here like it is a popularity contest. The losers are usually those who criticize any segment of this administration.

[Raineyb]

11. No I wouldn't think so.

Now I have no children so I am not really that involved in the input issue but I heard on a couple of radio shows about parent and teachers who are increasingly disturbed about the turn that's being taken here. Apparently, speaking out about things that are not right as a teacher can land you in the dungeon and the parent groups are not really welcomed. Apparently, it's all well and good to complain that parents don't get involved while making sure that their input is ignored.

That's NYC under Bloomberg.

[George II]

49. The NYC mayor has had "control" on the schools for seven years already...

...it came about because the school system in NYC was a disorganized mess and in shambles. Today they're in better shape than they ever were, and are a model of what public school systems should be.

You are doing your usual "I am having to assume" and "I am gathering" based on zero facts and using it to once again bash the Obama administration (this time in the name of Arne Duncan)

NO! As a matter of fact, Bloomberg is NOT a "good ole boy" or buddy buddy wiht the right wing religious groups. He is anything but that! I think you should do more research other than lifting a few disjointed passages from blogs, throwing in a photograph of Rupert Murdoch, and coming up with WRONG assumptions and drawing totally off-base conclusions!

[George II]

50. Huh?? "not really interested in hearing what any of us who are not rich...have to say"?

If that were the case, why would he care about controlling the PUBLIC school system? The rich in NYC send their children to private schools. He's doing it because the public school system in NYC was a mess due to mismanagement by the board of education, and he's turned the entire system around to create what will be a model school system.

The only reason this is "bad" is because it is another opportunity for the OP to go negative against the Obama administration in the name of Arne Duncan.

How about Hartford, CT ? Because their school system became a feifdom of the BOE there, the DEMOCRATIC mayor of Hartford took control of the school system and is turning it around, too. But, he has no ties to the Obama administration so that's okay to the anti-Obama contingent here.

[Retrograde]

21. I thought Caroline Kennedy had all that under control

At least judging by what I read on DU this past January: she was supposed to be doing such great work for the NYC schools.

Why am I not surprised that the Secretary of Education is messing around with one of the country's largest school systems?

[George II]

65. Considering that there has been mayoral control of schools for seven years and...

...it was renewed just weeks ago by the NYS Democratic-majority Senate, and considering that Duncan has been Secretary of Education for only a few months, common sense (rare around here) would dictate that mayoral control of the NYC schools is not the result of Duncan "messing around" in our schools.

Oh well, Duncan is an Obama appointee, so I guess he's fair game for DU-ers to attack him, justified or not.

[madfloridian]

3. Here's the link to Post bragging about itself.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08072009/news/regionalnews/post_saluted_for_class_act_183394.htm

"Mayor Bloomberg led a chorus of praise yesterday for The Post's series highlighting the improvements under mayoral control, saying the paper's coverage helped pave the way for extending the system.

"Today, the state Senate stood up for New York City's schoolchildren and, as a result, we can continue the dramatic progress we have made in our schools over the past seven years," Bloomberg said.

"Many individuals and organizations played a part in securing this victory, and the New York Post, with its series 'City Schools, City Rules,' " played a critical role in highlighting exactly how much was at stake."

The accolades for the months-long series, largely written by Post reporter Carl Campanile, came from lawmakers in Albany, education officials and business leaders, as well as the administrators, teachers, parents and kids who have seen the benefits firsthand.

Arne Duncan, the US secretary of education, lauded The Post's coverage.

"I appreciate your paper's leadership. I appreciate the thoughtfulness. You guys did a lot of work on (the mayoral-control issue)," Duncan said."

[George II]

51. And here's a key quote from that article..in case you missed it:

"the progress made under mayoral control, a power first granted to Bloomberg in 2002."

Democrat, Republican, whoever - back in 2002 singular control was needed to reorganize the school system in NYC, and that has happened.

This whole issue came about recently because the mayoral control was up for renewal in the NYS legislature, and that control was renewed by the DEMOCRATIC majority in the NYS Senate. It was held up for a month or more because of the logjam created by the REPUBLICANS taking over control briefly. Once that was resolved and the DEMOCRATS regained the majority, mayoral control was renewed.

Mayoral control has been in effect since 2002k, but of course not a peep about any of it until there was a chance to criticize an Obama appointee. Where were you back in 2002 and the subsequent 7 years?

Not that I appreciate the NY Post or what it generally stands for, but read your article again - it states "MANY INDIVIDUALS AND OGANIZATIONS PLAYED A PART"!!!

[madfloridian]

4. Down from 3 recs to 1 in just a short time.

Hard to tell if it is disapproval of Duncan's role, or if it is disapproval that I wrote about it.

Really doesn't matter.

Unrecs work in mysterious ways.

[juno jones]

9. I recced.

K&R.

This 'teaching the test' minimalism really has got to go.

[madfloridian]

10. The unrecs are puzzling in some cases.

This is not a topic that would likely get many recs, but the downward spiral is surprising.

Thanks. :)

[Dinger]

14. I Just Gave This The 7th Rec

arne duncan't is an embarrassment.

[George II]

52. Perhaps disapproval of the nature of the post itself?

[Dinger]

55. What's That Matter With The "Nature" Of The Post?

Does the truth hurt?

[George II]

59. The "nature" of the post is this....

....and oh how refreshing it would be if there was more truth in it:

It is a subjectively selected and loosely connected group of excerpts from blogs in a less than veiled attempt to once again discredit the Obama administration and try to tie it to rightwing conservatives.

It mentions Rupert Murdoch, the NY Post, and Arne Duncan as though they just pulled off a coup in New York City by gaining dictatorial mayoral control of the NYC school system.

It is portrayed in the post that this is Arne Duncan's idea as Secretary of Education, in cahoots with the New York Post.

What is not mentioned is that there has been mayoral control of NYC schools for the last SEVEN years, years before Obama was elected President and years before Arne Duncan became Secretary of Education. Of course, mentioning that would have detracted from the underlying motives of the post.

The post blatantly accuses Duncan of "messing around in NYC schools", even though the current status has been in effect for those seven years.

The post mentions the NY Post as though they were the driving force in mayoral "takeover" because they ran a series of articles on the issue - again, SEVEN YEARS after control was passed over to the mayor. Did the post include a link to the articles at all? No! I wonder why? The post also ignores the fact that the LIBERAL NY Times also endorsed mayoral control of the schools.

The post totally avoids a discussion of exactly why there was a need, SEVEN YEARS ago, for a change in the NYC school system - a system that was so disorganized and so disjointed that the only way to preserve the system was to have one single point of responsibility.

The post fails to note that mayoral control is not permanent, and that mayoral control is set up to be reviewed periodically by the NYS legislature and requires periodic renewal. It is NOT a permanent arrangement, but one that will cease to exist once the schools are in condition to not require such control.

The post fails to mention that this renewal was recently passed by the DEMOCRATIC majority in the NYS Senate and was signed by the DEMOCRATIC governor just recently

All of this is not mentioned, but the vague (perhaps nonexistent) connection between this control and Arne Duncan and the Obama administration sure is mentioned.

So, the "nature" of the post is to find yet one more way to criticize the Obama administration and his appointees, even if the truth is stretched, ignored, or even created.

So, to answer your second question, "Does the truth hurt?" No, it would have been nice if the real truth was actually included in the post.

[madfloridian]

61. He means he follows me from thread to thread to try to make me look bad.

I guess he feels a need to do that. It angers me he can do it with impunity, but I expect it now. So his posts will remain and mine will get deleted most likely. So be it.

:shrug:

[Dinger]

79. That Sucks

Hope our mods know better. I think they do.

[madfloridian]

8. CA may lose 4 billion if they don't do things Duncan's way.

Call it the dirty little secrets of K-12 funding, or more appropriately, nonfunding.

Call it the dirty little secrets of K-12 funding, or more appropriately, nonfunding.

The state was called out in May by President Barack Obama's Secretary of Education Arne Duncan for passing a law in 2006 that bars using student achievement data to evaluate pay and promotion of teachers. Duncan called the prohibition "mind boggling" and said it ultimately will cost California $4.4 billion in federal "Race to the Top" funding grants.

As irresponsible as this sounds in a time of cutbacks and teacher pink slips, this is not the first time the deficit-laden state has refused federal dollars. There is a pattern of arrogance and hypocrisy exhibited by a Democratic-controlled Legislature operating under the spell of one of its main campaign contributors, the teachers union. A Legislature that decries recent cuts to education forced by the recession but refuses to make the policy changes that can restore funding is hypocritical.

Of course this article is blaming the Democrats for not supporting Duncan's merit pay. They will lose 4.4. billion if they don't. I disagree with the article. I am proud the Democrats are standing up. One man is now dictating policy to states more than I have ever seen.

Something is wrong with that.

[Jim Sagle]

47. What's wrong is thinking of Duncan as a Democrat.

Once that error is corrected, all your confusion will blow away. The situation itself, however, will still suck, as will Duncan.

[Wednesdays]

12. K&R

:kick:

[Dappleganger]

13. I always thought he was a bad pick.

People like him are part of the problem.

[mopinko]

15. it WORKED in chicago

a school board full of cronies and cronies of cronies bled the system dry with contracts for bullshit. there was no accountability whatsoever. daley asked for and got to be the final authority because things were in such a mess that anything had to be better. you will hear differently from folks whose ox was gored, but that is the truth. nclb made a mess of much of the progress, but the system is still an order of magnitude better after the team of daley and duncan.

and parental input is not all it is cracked up to be. i have seen the local school councils here make a flipping mess of their responsibilities. personalities and high school drama rule many, many schools. these untrained and uneducated people should be advisory only, imho.

[Dinger]

17. "Parental Input Not All It Is Cracked Up to Be"?

I beg to differ. Parental input is key, period.

[Hello_Kitty]

23. In the education of their kids, yes.

In the workings of the school and the district, not always so much. For one thing, you get parents from affluent communities loudly demanding (and in many cases getting) resources for their schools while lower income parents, even if they are speaking up, get ignored.

[George II]

64. And that is assuming that the lower income parents are aware of the high tech advances....

....that their kids are being deprived of.

Another problem with localized school boards and excessive parental "involvement" (I call it parental meddling) While the poor parents are out working two jobs, both parents working, etc., the rich parents are scheming to get the best of everything for their children.

[George II]

53. Maybe in small school systems, but most certainly not in NYC...

Most of the mess in the NYC school system came about when it was decided to decentralize the school system and put it in the hands of local school boards years ago. These became ridden with corruption, duplication of costs, waste, and total mismanagement by inexperienced "parents" instead of career educators and administrators. Parents on the local boards were using it for their own objectives and misused by them to promote their own selfish agendas.

Only when the system was reorganized again did it begin to turn around.

[Smarmie Doofus]

57. Opportunities for corruption and inefficiency are exponentially higher now.

>>>>>Most of the mess in the NYC school system came about when it was decided to decentralize the school system and put it in the hands of local school boards years ago. These became ridden with corruption, duplication of costs, waste, and total mismanagement by inexperienced "parents" instead of career educators and administrators.>>

Bloomberg turned over the bulk of school $$$ managemet to the 1500 principals in charge of 1500 schools. 1500 quasi-independent fiefdoms replacing a couple of dozen boards. 1500 hundred time more opportunities for favoritism and nepotism hires.

1500 times more chances to allocate money to pet projects as opposed to procuring material and establishing environments that help kids learn.

Think about it. Don't rely on the POST and equally unreliable sources.



>>>Only when the system was reorganized again did it begin to turn around.>>>

Turn around *how*? The system sucks.

>>>>parents" instead of career educators and administrators>>>

Huh?!? The single boldest initiative... and one of the DUMBEST ( and that's saying a lot) is his effort to rid the system of "experienced educators and administrators." Everyone agrees on this, including Bloomberg's apologists.

No offense:sounds like you need to do more research yourself.

[madfloridian]

60. Thanks for the post.

And I agree.

[George II]

63. "Opportunities for corruption and inefficiency are exponentially higher now." ??

What keeps getting ignored is that this has been the status of the NYC school system for SEVEN years already! This is NOT a new thing, mayoral control. And there have been NO corruption or scandals in those seven years - ZERO! So where does this "corruption" idea come from?

"The system sucks"? It is infinitely better (exponentially, as you put it) now than it was in the late '90s. Sure, it's not perfect, far from it, but it is better than it has been in almost a decade.

Finally, you say Bloomberg rid the system of "experienced educators and administrators". To give this credence, please name some of the "experience educators and administrators" that were released and who replaced them.

PS - I've done my research, I know quite a bit about the NYC school system, its problems, and how it has evolved in the last two decades.

[Smarmie Doofus]

66. Wow. You are *out* there.

>>>>>Finally, you say Bloomberg rid the system of "experienced educators and administrators". To give this credence, please name some of the "experience educators and administrators" that were released and who replaced them.>>>>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/26/nyregion/26principals.html

>>>>What keeps getting ignored is that this has been the status of the NYC school system for SEVEN years already! This is NOT a new thing, mayoral control. And there have been NO corruption or scandals in those seven years - ZERO! So where does this "corruption" idea come from?>>>>>

Oy. Trust me: you haven't "done research". Start here: google "NYC" +"DOE"+ "DOI".

"Zero". Ya. U-betcha.

[George II]

67. I followed your suggestion, googled "NYC+DOE+DOI" and the result - STILL "Zero"!

I did learn how to vote in person (although I no longer live in NYC but Connecticut)
I did learn how to register with the Department of Education
I did find a list of open positions in the Department of Education.

Then, I checked your NY Times link, and not surprisingly searching for the words "scandal", "corrupt", and "corruption" resulted in "text not found"!!

So, not only have I done MY research but now I've also done YOUR research. Bupkis! You betcha.

[Smarmie Doofus]

68. Google "NYC"+"DOE"+"Richard J. Condon"

Condon is the Special Commissioner of Investigation for the Public School System. He operates outside of DOI.

I did and got 155 hits. Starting with this one: 2004.


http://www.nycsci.org/public/04-04%20Reassigned%20APs%20PR.pdf



Remember: you said there was "zero" corruption under Bloomberg.

Did you read the article about the city's drive to replace older, experienced administrators with younger ( cheaper and more pliable) inexperienced administrators? ( never mind what you did or did not google.)

[George II]

70. Did your new search (how many until we get substance?), and got a report.....

.....on some assistant principals cheating on their time. Searched that report for "scandal", "corrupt", and "corruption", and again "text not found". So, keep trying, you might get a minor victory some day.

Thanks. My point has been proven.

[Smarmie Doofus]

72. Your point was that there was "zero" corruption in the school system...

...under Bloomberg. How you manage to interpret specific examples of corruption in the school system under Bloomberg .... as proof that there is "zero" corruption in the school system under Bloomberg... is beyond me.

Here's a recent NYC Comptroller report on DOE under Bloomberg.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-c-thompson-jr/why-joel-klein-should-be_b_246342.html


Edit to add snippet:
We have uncovered repeated instances of awarding no-bid contracts to firms without a proven track record, which in one case led to a disastrous bus routing fiasco. We have reported on gross cost over-runs by outside contractors hired by the Department that have cost New York City taxpayers over $720 million and denied students funds for basic supplies.

In audit reports last week exposing shoddy oversight regarding high school graduation rates and standardized test administration, we found that the DOE has engaged in sloppy and unprofessional practices that encourage data manipulation and cheating.

[George II]

73. Cheating on time is not considered "corruption", which is why that word was not used in the report..

...done, finished, three strikes and you're out. Thanks!

[Dinger]

18. Self-Delete (Dupe)

[Dinger]

19. I Beg To Differ:

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/23_03/arne233.shtml

" . . . Arne Duncan—a noneducator from the business sector who was Chicago's "chief executive officer" . . . "

[mopinko]

35. look, a lot of oxen were gored. they deserved to be gored.

the system before daley and duncan was so corrupt that they didn't even keep the buildings clean. roofs leaked, windows were broken, kids were not fucking fed.
arne duncan is not very from "the business community". his magne cum laude harvard degree is in sociology. he spent his childhood in his mother's very successful afterschool program which was in a poor, poor poor neighborhood, and was full of poor, poor, poor kids. the teacher's union never got over having someone who didn't have a union card being appointed to be their boss. it is sour grapes. it is bullshit.

and as far as parents, if you have never been on a big city parent council of any kind, you do not know what overblown ego and colossal stupid are. they are magnets for some of the most disturbed people i have ever met.

i have 5 kids who have been through the chicago system over the last 25 years. i don't need to drum up some link to some blog to tell you what happened here. this arne bashing is pure, unadulterated bullshit. the difference between now and then is day and night.

[Smarmie Doofus]

37. Do you mean he taught somewhere else in a non-union position?

>>>>the teacher's union never got over having someone who didn't have a union card being appointed to be their boss. it is sour grapes. it is bullshit.>>>>>

Or do you mean he's never taught at *all*?

[mopinko]

38. i mean that it was about tribal bullshit.

no, he was not a teacher. but he was a magne cum laude in sociology, and a pure heart. and a damn good administrator that finally put an end to schools that went on and on, year in and year out, failing their students with no accountability AT ALL.

[Smarmie Doofus]

44. Well, why not put him on the Supreme Court, then?

>>>>but he was a magne cum laude in sociology>>>>>

Or make him Attorney General. Why is the Secratary of Agriculture supposed to have some background, in ...you know... *farming*?

Why do the treasury secretaries come from the financial community?

Why do Mayor Daley... and President Obama.... think that having a mother who ran a tutoring program is sufficient qualification to lead a school system and,ultimately, the US Department of Education?

[DailyGrind51]

94. Exactly! If his father was a surgeon, does that qualify Arne to remove your appendix?

[DailyGrind51]

88. Arne Duncan has no certification of any kind, not as a teacher, or administrator!

"The over-regulation of classroom teachers and the ongoing indignity of having to acquire “CPDUs” in order to remain certified (and achieve “highly qualified” status) insults every man and women who worked hard to get through college (and, in the case of the majority of Chicago teachers, graduate school) to earn the right to teach in a public school classroom. While CEOs and their well-paid staffs are completely unregulated, teachers are facing more and more restraints and indignities. Teachers shouldn’t be required to gather CPDUs until Arne Duncan is required to get an Illinois teaching certificate, work the required six years in a school, pass the Illinois administrative tests, and get his “Type 75” so he can be a principal. After several years as a principal, he can apply for the top job.

Can you imagine the uproar in the police department if the mayor tried to appoint a “CEO” of Police with the same qualifications and experience as Arne Duncan (and Paul Vallas) had for the top educational job?..."

http://www.substancenews.com/archive/May03/editorial.htm

"Duncan graduated magna cum laude from Harvard University in 1987, majoring in sociology. He was co-captain of Harvard's basketball team and was named a first team Academic All-American. He credits basketball with his team-oriented and highly disciplined work ethic."

http://www.ed.gov/news/staff/bios/duncan.html

[Dinger]

89. Touché DailyGrind

That deserves a thread of it's own.:headbang: :yourock:

[DailyGrind51]

91. Thank you!

[Smarmie Doofus]

41. Got it. Chicago schools are now great. Where did Mr and Mrs. Obama....

... send their kids? Chicago Public..... or did they go private ?


>>>>>the difference between now and then is day and night.>>>>>

[George II]

54. It is working in NYC (Mayoral control is not new in NYC) and it is working in Hartford, too!

[Hannah Bell]

95. if you like fascism, no parental input = great. yes, let us have no "untrained" or "uneducated"

folk messing up the indoctrination programme we have planned for their kids.

[Fire1]

16. Duncan may want to invest in some sleeping pills.

Detroit's Mayor has his hands full. There is NO room on his plate for monitoring the school system. It ain't happening.

[Dinger]

20. His Primary Focus Is Urban Schools. What About Rural Schools, Particularly Poor Ones?

I teach in a rural school district where 80% of the students are on free and reduced lunch. We continually win awards for test performance, as well as other awards. Lots of issues here, but the focus of teachers here is always the education of students. To me, Duncan wants a "one size fits all" approach, and he can kiss my ass.

[mopinko]

69. you don't know arne's record, then.

his entire tenure in chicago was about expanding the opportunities for kids to find the school setting that was best for them. the duncan/daley team built math and science college prep high schools in all 5 regions, and similar elementary schools as well. before that there were 4 elementary and 2 high schools for gifted kids in the whole system. all the teachers hate charter schools, but here charters fill the needs of kids who are way out of the mainstream, either with physical or developmental problems, or kids who have behavior problems. most of these charters are held by non-profits that specialize in services to these populations. experimental schools also have been given charters, like the k-12 school in pilsen, which is mostly mexican immigrants, which is built around service to each other. the teachers union holds several charters. i think one of them is a girls leadership academy. not sure about the rest.
the next round of charters are expected to include several arts and music schools, and language emersion.

now, can you honestly tell me that that is a one size fits all mentality? honestly?
and to chime in on other replies in this thread about corruption- also in chicago, pretty much exactly nada as well.

[Dinger]

22. Duncan=Messer, Public Schools=Mesee

Just sayin'.

[Dinger]

24. Afternoon Kick (nt)

[madfloridian]

25. Thanks.....

not a popular post at all. But an important one even if people don't want it said.

[Dinger]

26. Thanks : )

Another kick from me:)

[Smarmie Doofus]

27. K and R. It's essentially about busting the unions.

There's other stuff involved but that's what it's essentially about. Bloomberg thinks he can run the PS system on the cheap by getting rid of expensive educators ( i.e. experienced) and replacing them with newbies.

The newbies won't stay long enough to make pension demands, etc. on the system. ( Half of all new teachers leave within 5 yrs. in NY). Constant turnover is OK w. Bloomberg so long as he's calling the shots and costs are kept *low*. Neither he nor anyone in his social sphere use or ever WILL use the public school system so it's actual quality is completely beside the point.

There's a line from "The Verdict": "Wake up Frankie; these people are *sharks*; how the fuck ya think they got all that money in the first place."

[LWolf]

30. You nailed that one. nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

32. Thanks. That *was* pretty good ( he said, modestly.).

I think I'll add it to my journal. Nothing gets me going like Bloombergism.

[QC]

39. Only Nixon could go to China, and only a Democrat can destroy the unions once and for all.

These people didn't become the ruling class by being stupid, you know.

[George II]

56. I think a little research is in order...

...what you say is mostly not true. The NYC school system is most certainly not being run "on the cheap".

[Iwillnevergiveup]

28. K&R

Arne not what we need, amen.

[amandabeech]

29. Rec.

My friends and relatives who are teachers now say the same things that you have been writing here on DU for some time.

You are appreciated, Madfloridian.

[Dinger]

31. I agree 100%

:)

[madfloridian]

45. Teachers I talk to seem stunned at the choice.

They don't like the way he talks to teachers's groups as if they are 2nd class citizens.

I try to give good sources, and be fair. But I still get accused of "attacking" someone....there is to be no critique at all according to some here.

I am greatly worried where public education is heading.

Thanks for the kind words, but writing about education is an invitation to put one's head on the chopping block.

[amandabeech]

86. I'm amazed at how long you've kept it up.

You clearly have more commitment and thicker skin than most of us.

Maybe you are making some headway. I don't think that everyone here believes that critique equals racism or some such other thing.

[DailyGrind51]

33. Duncan pulled that same crap in Chicago!

Mayor Daley, who is as inarticulate as "W", is in charge of Chicago schools!

[madfloridian]

34. Mayors in our area are judged, not by intelligence, but by religious views.

I kid you not. The recent ones have close ties to the right wing community. I would fear to have any of them in sole control of the schools.

[mopinko]

36. and he has done a damn good job.

see #35

[Dinger]

42. LOL

:rofl:

[DailyGrind51]

92. Credit your hard-working children and their dedicated I.S.B.E. certified teachers!

Arne Duncan didn't complete their homework or pass their tests, your children did. Arne Duncan never bothered to return to grad school to obtain the Type 75 Illinois Board of Education Administrative Certificate (See post #88) required of every public school administrator in the State. I have lived in Chicago for all but 16 of my nearly 60 years, have members of my family on the CPD, and a cousin who was an Democratic State Representative. I also invested my time and limited funds to return to grad school and obtain an Illinois State teaching certificate as a mid-life career when my office closed and I was laid off.

Praise your children, not Duncan!

[Dinger]

40. Night Kick (nt)

[TheKentuckian]

46. Dumping control of the schools into the lap of the mayors is stupid.

The schools should and must be non-partisan as possible. The education of future generations should not be a football up to the whims of whatever yahoo finds a way into office. All of this actually needs to be kicked up to the federal level, I see nothing of benefit about local control of much and certainly not education, distribution of resources and quality of standards is far from acceptable in my viewpoint.

Local government is bullshit in this country and probably can be described as reckless in this area in particular. States rights and "handling things at the local level" is just left over fear of establishing a monarchy. I don't get the general trust for states, sure a handful pretty well have their shit together but the majority of the states are much bigger messes and more crooked than Washington.

We need a mix of people devoted to educating kids well regardless of what happens in elections. Right now we aren't even producing kids that can compete with each other on any parity, much less the world. No question that what we are doing now has poor results but chucking education to a bunch of political wolves is irresponsible. I'd have to hear a pretty convincing argument on why this would be looked at as a one size fits all solution or even how it is desirable in any but pretty much emergency situations when the wheels have totally come off. Giving education to mayors makes education planning inherently short-term.

[madfloridian]

74. You are very right.

It gives too much power in the hands of one person.

[Libertas1776]

48. Mayor-King Bloomie

with the help of his elitist Richie Rich friends has devastated the NYC public school system. I just love how in his campaign commercials for his third "bought" term, he laughably claims that HS graduation rates have gone up. Well, duh, any moron can pull that hat rick when you, ya know...LOWER the requirements necessary to graduate from high school, and thus "prove" that your control over education has "saved" the city.

[madfloridian]

58. How would you like a mayor like this to be in total charge of your schools?

This lady is running for mayor of Tulsa, OK. Population at last census in 2000 was 393,049.

Would Arne consider that large enough for complete mayoral control?

OK mayoral candidate wants to have a creation zoo.

Tulsa mayoral candidate Anna Falling wants to turn the city zoo into a sort of living, breathing creation museum, with caged animals used as props to "prove" the Book of Genesis is based on scientific fact. Not only that, Falling thinks that hammering on this issue is all she needs to do to get elected In Oklahoma. (Sadly, it probably is.)

From NewsOn6: For Anna Falling, the road to city hall runs through the Tulsa Zoo. She's made her Christianity central to her platform and now the exhibit depicting the Christian story of Creationism is her first campaign promise. "Today we are announcing that God will be glorified in this city. He shall not be shunned. Upon our election, we hereby commit to honoring Him in all ways that He has been dishonored," said Anna Falling. Falling says God was dishonored four years ago, when the Tulsa Parks Board rejected an exhibit which borrows heavily from the first book of the Bible... "Unless we find ways to engage the Church back into public policy decisions we will be lost as a city, state and nation," said Anna Falling. Her speech was part sermon, part rallying cry. And, it's already winning over some voters.

[mopinko]

62. there is a difference between one person in control, and one

person who is responsible. daley does not meddle in the day to day running of the schools, or much else. he is a smart administrator. but at the end of the day, he is the guy on the bubble. it has made a huge difference to have someone with ultimate responsibility.
we had a school board of, iirc, 17 people. the only thing they could agree on was issuing contracts to their friends. they bought every piece of crap curriculum that came along.

especially in big cities- the ultimate factor for so many people deciding where to live is schools. that was why daley wanted the job. he didn't need the headache, but we were bleeding taxpayers to the burbs, and were being hollowed out as a city. good cities need good schools, and the mayor has his finger on what people want out of their schools in a way that school boards don't.

and as far as teachers bitching- show me a group of people that love their bosses. just show me.

[TheKentuckian]

71. I could care less about the upset teachers I just don't think education should

just be thrown to the whims of elections every four years. All it takes is one knuckle head and we've fucked up a generation of kids maybe for life.

Knowing who to be pissed at is only worth so much and shouldn't that person be a Superintendent that knows about education and is a capable administrator? Someone who's sole focus is the schools? Sure, responsible people would bring in a quality lieutenant to really do the job but it is well within the realm of possibility to get some fool that thinks he walks on water or has some genius plan that screws all the kids?

[mopinko]

76. we had a super. his name was arne duncan.

he did a great job. but he served at the pleasure of the mayor. not a 17 member board.

[MadHound]

75. More bipartisan education idiocy coming from Washington.

Another step along the road to a two tier education system.

Duncan has no experience as an educator, just an administrator. Just another bit of "change we can believe in.":eyes:

[mopinko]

77. nobody is putting him in a classroom.

so it doesn't matter if he is a teacher. and be clear, him mom's school took very underprivileged kids, and helped them succeed. it wasn't something she did, then told him about over dinner. he was there with her all the time. he learned what kids need to succeed.
what he studied in college was the form and function of a just society. what he tried to bring to the apartheid that was chicago schools was a just society. he did a good job.

that comment is a canard. and a worn out one at that.

[DailyGrind51]

78. A "Chicago Reader" poster asked for local (Chicago) opinion on the appointment of Duncan:

Some very candid and revealing opinions:

http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2008/12/16/good-thing/

Should Arne Duncan be praised for taking a school system that's been failing for decades and trying to do something, anything, with it? Or is it simply troubling that Barack Obama's pick for secretary of education oversaw a system where, even after some progress, nearly half of all ninth graders fail to get their diplomas--and even fewer make it through college?


Arne Duncan the wannabe NBA star. What makes Duncan such a hot commodity. Mayor Daley turned their entire CPS over to the University of Chicago. Arne's Mother is a powerful fixture over at the U of C. All policy concerning CPS is decide by elitist U of C operatives.We are starting to see the the smoke in the mirror sucess from U of C 'S CPS policies. Test scores are being artifically push up to give the appearance of sucess by student. The U of C via, Daley will milk tax payers dollars,to test their half baked theories. We all know the Edcation system or CPS is a clout ridden,and corrupt as any other,Chicago institution. Prez Obama likes Arne,they play pick up basketball together. At best Arne's is probabily a Basketball coach or Athletic Director. He will be vetted during the confirmation process. Maybe some of the vetter will have enough gall to bust out Daley and his connection to the University of Chicago. Prez will finally have someone he knows to play Basketball with.
Posted by Knowledge Society has questions on December 16, 2008 at 2:36 PM | Report this comment
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To those who have an honest interest in authentic educational opportunities for all of our children, and a fair and equitable means by which to both finance and provide same, please take the time to read through the comments section of this recent, Clout City article: http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/politics/2008/11/28/wait-till-next-year-/
Posted by just ay no to more of the same old CPS bullshit on December 16, 2008 at 3:04 PM | Report this comment
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Arne's father taught at the UC, but his parents were divorced years ago, and Mr. Duncan is now dead. His mother isn't a "powerful fixture at the U.C."- she's been running an after-school center for poor kids for forty years. www.sueduncanchildrenscenter.org
Posted by Justin on December 16, 2008 at 3:13 PM | Report this comment
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This appointment is beyond pathetic. I attended a graduation at Corliss High School and only around a third of the original class actually graduated. Duncan always sounds like such a dope when he's on his radio show and it's incredible that anyone would take him seriously. I was not a big fan of Paul Vallas, but Daley only fired him because he dared to upstage him.
Posted by FGFM on December 16, 2008 at 3:27 PM | Report this comment
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Many of Obama's picks are great--but Arne Duncan is poor.
Posted by Craig on December 16, 2008 at 4:25 PM | Report this comment
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Da Prez needs a long lanky honky to play hoops wit. For Real.
Posted by Super Deluxe on December 16, 2008 at 4:30 PM | Report this comment
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Prez's is pickup game is weak.He will never break for the hole,he lacks an inside game skills. Duncan is perfect,for Prez to hoop with.
Posted by Hey Super Deluxe on December 16, 2008 at 5:25 PM | Report this comment
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From the tapes I saw, Pineapple Boy talks a better game of hoops than he actually plays. Seems like Basketball is the new golf with respect to being a power-lunch activity. As for Arne - it is the Harvard College connection at work again. If you are not Ivy League, don't apply for a position in the Barack Administration. A new caste system for America is being created.
Posted by Orion on December 16, 2008 at 6:29 PM | Report this comment
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Does Coconate know Jeese Jr was wearing a wire ,when he was his biggest cheerleader?
Posted by Inquiring Mind on December 16, 2008 at 6:59 PM | Report this comment
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I love Pianeapple Boy and his great work with CPS. I hope he breaks the hole, I see.
Posted by Orion on December 16, 2008 at 7:58 PM | Report this comment
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Gee whiz kiddies that is some great improvement! 50% fail? That is better than ten years ago. What next America?
Posted by Lon on December 16, 2008 at 9:50 PM | Report this comment
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http://www.chicagoclout.com/
Posted by Funny on December 16, 2008 at 11:05 PM | Report this comment
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Prez almost has his wannabe fake Basketball team together.He needs only John Rogers and the State Treasure (Alexis G)and maybe they can beat the Chicago Sky. The Women's Basketball team.
Posted by Dave on December 17, 2008 at 6:44 AM | Report this comment
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This was another bone head move
Posted by Justice jones on December 19, 2008 at 6:30 PM | Report this comment
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If Obama really wanted to reform education, he had thousands of applicants nationally to choose from, besides Ernie Duncan. Obama just lost my vote in the next election! This wasn't a serious pick and it was the most important for those who have kids in CPS; we know what were getting in Chicago, does America know what they are getting in Ernie Duncan? Kids are not graduating because CPS principals and teachers are not putting advanced material into the curriculum so kids can learn and become familiar with the course work to pass the state and national test. They'll use the excuse that kids are poor and can't learn and the parents and kids will refuse to do the advanced courses. Of course, the best teachers will not come in minority communities and teach little black and hispanic kids because they are scared. Why teach in Englewood, Lawndale or Austin when I can go in Winnetka and earn more money and less hassle? So what's left in Chicago Public Schools are trash; unmotivated principles and teachers just earning a paycheck to make a living. They're just like everybody else with a job getting by with less work as possible. The only way the system will change if more upper income people decide to start living in Chicago and sending their kids to CPS. It's called gentrification. No one wants to be bothered with poor people. I know people who are poor and when the mention of education come into the conversation they'll give you a blank stare and no opinion; the poverty habits can only change with good a education and skills. CPS should give the kids better teachers, principals and course work. Let the families decide if they want their kids to become motivated to learn, but good schools should be in place so kids that want to learn can have the same opportunity as those in affluent areas of the city and burbs. That's change, Mr. Obama
Posted by Mr. Obama, Oh No! on December 20, 2008 at 12:44 AM | Report this comment
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Your non-vote is meaningless, because those same poor people will re-elect Obama. How can these kids learn advanced material, when they have been mistaught in the foundation courses? Education is lifelong learning, not some governmental multiple choice tests. Arne = Ernie principal = principle
Posted by re: Mr. Obama, Oh No! on December 20, 2008 at 6:08 AM | Report this comment
http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2008/12/16/good-thing/

[ieoeja]

85. Comment by comment analysis (mostly RW talking points or racist).

Rightwing talking points about "elitists" plus a lie about Duncan's mother.

Link to Rightist website.

Correcting the lie in comment #1.

I'm not a Republican, but ... goes on to trash Democrats and talk up a Republican.

Duncan sucks (no reason given).

Racist.

Racist.

Racist.

Racist.

Racist.

Insulting.

Link to Rightist website.

Racist.

Racist.

I'm not a Republican, but....

Calling out the above post.



As you said, some very candid and revealing comments.

[Dinger]

80. republicans LOVE Duncan

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/01/arne_duncan_inspires_republica.html

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/thatsrightnate/2008/12/is-arne-duncan-the-other-repub.php
"In Chicago Duncan made a name for himself by closing down poorly performing schools for a year to turn them around by replacing the faculty and many of the students. In the case of Orr High School he did this twice. As most poor schools are African-American, Arne Duncan has personally fired over 2,000 African-American teachers this way. This is a very impressive quality-the ability to see that the poor performing schools are in African-American neighborhoods and the foresight to take the moves necessary to improve them. This strategy hasn't always worked, but in neighborhoods that have simultaneously undergone gentrification, the results are quite impressive.

Duncan is part of a new breed of school administrator whose minds have not been poisoned by working in the classroom. Instead they believe that the needs of children can best be met by the free market. In his time in Chicago, Duncan has frequently reached out to business leaders to do for the schools what they have already done for corporate America. The cornerstone of the Chicago Education Miracle is Renaissance 2010-A program designed to replace public schools with charters. The program seems poised to reach its pinnacle next year with the opening of The Transportation Academy of Chicago which will have the mission statement of training the city's future bus drivers."

[madfloridian]

81. "Duncan has personally fired over 2,000 African-American teachers"

"not poisoned by working in the classroom"

"reached out to business leaders to do for the schools what they have already done for corporate America"

Good grief, thanks for posting that. Is that TPM blogger for real?

[Dinger]

82. Sickening, Isn't It?

I wait for the day Duncan resigns to "spend more time with his family."

[Dinger]

83. Another Kick From Me

:evilgrin:

[Phx_Dem]

84. self-delete

[tonysam]

87. NYC's School District is the Crookedest, Most Corrupt

in the entire United States. Hundreds of teachers are being "incarcerated" in the so-called "rubber rooms" in order to get their hearings to see if they get tossed out on bogus allegations. And almost ALL of them are bogus and few teachers survive arbitration. Perverting the tenure system is a new way for unscrupulous districts and administrators to cut down on budget costs, especially for older workers who are vested in retirement.

They WANT the bimbos fresh out of college so they can be tossed out after three years (denied tenure, which in NY state means their licenses can be revoked) so as to NEVER be vested in retirement.

This sick, twisted system is why public school systems are in the crapper. School districts are NOT about children but instead are strictly political institutions.

Nobody in his or her right mind would work in such a filthy, corrupt, sick system.

[Dinger]

90. Weekend Kick From Me

:)

[Dinger]

93. Saturday Night Kick

:evilgrin: