I just got called a Socialist!

[RememberWellstone]

By my Father no less.

Some background: I had spent quite a bit of time educating he, my sister and BIL last November on voting for Obama. They did, all three of them, my Mother voted for McCain/Quitter.

At dinner tonight, he says that he regrets voting for Obama and wish he could have his vote back. Well, I began to nicely debate/argue with him over Health Insurance reform. He would not listen for more than a few seconds before he blew up. Ranting about President Obama being a socialist and he did'nt vote for this type of change etc...he literally called me a socialist for supporting the President now.

I took him to his computer to log in to Whitehosue.gov to show him the President's remarks concerning healthcare and also the disinformation...he watched for 5 seconds and lashed out at me that it was lies all lies! I asked where he was getting his info from, he said he can read and has eyes to watch television. He said I was brainwashed and this is like the book 1984 blah, blah. My Mom did not say a word until I was taking coffee cup back, and she said "I told you so". WTF? 6 months into his Presidency and you told me so? You knew this was gonna happen?

As I was leaving..he said for me tell my comrades hello from a dissenter.

I am heartbroken, to say the least. I teared up in the car...I am glad my girlfriend was not with me, she would have cursed a blue streak against my own Father.

I am at a loss. Just had to vent a little...I hope the economy turns around, if it does'nt my father may never forgive me.:shrug:

[no_hypocrisy]

1. My father called me a godless Communist on Christmas Day no less.

And it's been a downward spiral since then.

I'm sorry about your father's remark to you.
:hug:

[RememberWellstone]

5. He hated Bush too!

He wanted the war to end, he wanted the World to look up to us. He felt President Obama could be that and more. He gave $1,000 to Obama's campaign. He was all on board...he even cried watching the Innauguration.

I have seen him grow weary the past couple of months but never like this..at least he did'nt call me a communist. He is good man, a fair man. He actually worked for Lawton Chiles back in the day...I am sad that this has affected my family.

[no_hypocrisy]

61. You really had quite a shock as you certainly didn't anticipate this.

I hope your father considers the impact of his words. You're not the focus of his wrath; it's the issues.

[DailyGrind51]

97. My father and I did not get along during the 60s, because of our differences on Vietnam.

I don't think we talked to each other for nearly a year. However, my mother shared that he was relieved when I received a high draft lottery number and didn't have to go.

[Kittycat]

2. It's all lies?

Not a single piece of legislation proposed, or anything on a government website supports what he believes. How exactly are those socialist whatever going to end up in the legislation, if it's not there? Is someone going to wave a wand, break the law? I don't get people like that.

[RememberWellstone]

11. He and his friends

A close group of long time friends have reached this decision corporately. He is on the City council beautification committee and has helped many people get HUD and Habitat for humanity. He is hard worker and volunteers a lot of his time different charities and outreaches.

So, to lose him is a big deal for me. He is someone you want on your side when you need help.

[Why Syzygy]

63. They need to be asked if SS retirement and Medicare are socialism.

My mother was griping that EVEN people who never paid into it were going to get coverage. After I said, health care is a right not a privilege; I asked her what she would rather have? Those people just left to die? She was speechless. Then I went on to tell her that 40% of people who have PAID health insurance are not covered after they file a claim. Their claims are denied and they are left to die! More speechlessness.

Just continue to speak the truth. That's all we can do until they see the real life benefits IF we ever get this done.

It's about life and death.

[Extend a Hand]

3. did you thank him for the compliment?

;)

[DURHAM D]

9. Exactly - that's what I used to say to my parents

back in the 60s, 70s and 80s when they used to call me that. It always stopped them in their tracks.

No one has called me that in a long time. I miss it.

[RememberWellstone]

16. Incendiary

No way I could to say that to my Father..not now.:-(

[RememberWellstone]

14. No, it would have made it worse

He acts as though someone is going to come to his door and haul him off to jail..I've never seen him get this upset (besides Bush and the war) and to berate me like that. It is not normal...something has him spooked and made him extemely worried. He is not a feeble, weak or un-educated man.

[DevonRex]

64. We must be related, because my entire family thinks that way.

I have one brother-in-law who actually hopes to be investigated by the federal government for something - anything. He doesn't care what. He just thinks it would be fun.

Oh, except for why he hasn't paid his taxes yet. They just keep rolling over the amount due and then cry about the total going up. Meanwhile, they sit in their house on the water, with 4 cars in the drive, a boat and a huge motor home, too.

[Wapsie B]

4. Are you my long lost brother?

Seriously, let him fester in his own anger. Tough thing to say about your own father but trust me, you'll be better off in the long run. repugs have a way of appealing to the inner rage possessed by many.

[RememberWellstone]

8. We've been close

For my 40 years on the planet..seems silly that politics would have breached our relationship, but he is pissed off right now.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Thank goodness your Dad is not yet on Medicare....

cause if he were, you would then be forced to call him a Socialist.

[RememberWellstone]

15. Yeah, I know

But right now...trying to explain anything to him, is a vapid waste of energy.

[Peacetrain]

7. Oh my gosh.. I am so sorry to read this

EDIT TO ADD...

But this is a case of who owns the problem.. and the owner of the problem is your Dad, not you.

[RememberWellstone]

12. Thank you

My heart feels like it has been run over by a truck.

[windbreeze]

33. I don't know how old your father is...but

I am 68...and I feel as though a truck has been run over me lately..perhaps he is just plain scared of what he sees happening..I know I am...I am terrified...we lived through JFK, and Vietnam and it's been nothing but a disaster since...I don't know how to put this into words, really...I am sorry for what took place...but try not to let it come between you...you only have one father, and his fear is misguiding him right now..that's their intent..to misguide and cause problems..it worries me that "they" are succeeding...wb

[RememberWellstone]

37. Noted

Thank you for the encouragement.

I will just have to wait and see. President Obama, no matter how he got to this place ( Bush), will have to get this nation moving forward. When he does, I think all of this will be old bridges...nothing more.

[tabatha]

10. Is he on MediCare?

Did you tell him it was socialist?

[RememberWellstone]

13. No Medicare

He has great insurance from his former employer.

He retired about 6 years ago and is in top health for his age 69.

Great man, really.

[Critters2]

17. He never paid into Medicare?

How'd that happen? If he's 69, and not in one of the few categories who don't pay in, he's on Medicare, regardless of how good his insurance is. And probably uses it, too.

[RememberWellstone]

19. I don't think he's used it

That would be a better description.

All hsi dental, check-ups and anything else he uses is through his insurance. I will check and see if he has ever used Medicare.

[Critters2]

22. Most health care providers send bills to Medicare first,

supplemental insurers second, and the consumer third. He's almost certainly benefited from it, whether he knows it or not.

[DURHAM D]

36. Exactly. He is using it for some things but may not know it -

or doesn't want to admit it.

[RememberWellstone]

38. Might be a crack in the door

But this will have to be a future exchange, not now. I will find out either way.

[windbreeze]

43. It works like this...

at the age of 65, his insurance insists he goes onto medicare..Private insurance doesn't give him the choice to opt out...and all private insurances then bill medicare BEFORE they bill his regular insurance...I don't know of any private insurance that allows him to opt out of medicare coverage after the age of 65, and would still cover him...Yes, he can opt out of medicare...but...His private insurance carrier most definitely would have something to say about it...and possibly would drop him also if he did...I know that my husband retired at 62...as long as he was not 65, he had coverage just like any man working did..the minute he turned 65, his premium dropped and they expected him to go onto medicare...they also put his meds through medicare D...and we were informed that we HAD NO CHOICE...That was it, or we had NO coverage...wb...

[RememberWellstone]

45. Got it

Thanks for the info...I will be copying most these helpful posts.:hippie:

[unapatriciated]

83. windbreeze is right.

My dad retired from the carpenters union (with full benefits package) and the same thing was required of him.

[eridani]

53. When I was working and my husband was retired, our insurance REQUIRED him

--to be on Medicare once he turned 65. How is it that any insurance company would fail to claim those extra dollars your dad is entitled to?

[FrenchieCat]

20. If he is 69, he is on Medicare......

So I'm not sure why that wasn't the avenue of discussion for the Son with his Father???? :shrug:

[RememberWellstone]

28. It might be

But him in this livid condition, he is angry, very angry...I do not want to mess with him right now. If he gets turned a certain way, it takes forever to get him back.

Case in point, his sailboat, he bought a used mast from a man, the man said it was fine. When my father put the new mast on his boat, the rigging got stuck constantly, he sprayed lubricants changed some innner workings etc. He would not talk to the man ever again, even when the man said he would buy it back. My Father said, you should have never sold it to me in the first place. Thats was tears ago..and the other man still has hsi sailboat at the same marina, just few berths down from my Dad's boat.

He is a bull head, no doubt.

One good thing, he does not believe the birthers, he said so a month ago.

[DURHAM D]

32. My brother is the same age as your father.

He also gets his supplemental medical insurance and the mandatory contribution to medicare ($103 a month) paid by his company - one of the country's more famous corporations.

He was raving on a bit today about several stupid issues. Finally I asked him what was really wrong - he told me that starting next year he has to pay for his own dental coverage, half of the eye coverage and half of the $103 a month medicare payment. His company was still picking up the supplemental and the rest. I tried to reason with him but he lives in another world and has no idea what everyone who hasn't retired from working for a company that continues to pick up these benefits for employees post retirement has to face.

I got his attention when I laughed at him and called him a fucking ingrate and told him 95% of the population would like to trade places with him. He is a selfish jerk and completely ignorant of how the rest of us live.

Naturally he blamed Obama for what his company is doing to him. When he said that I asked him if he was at his computer (we were talking on the phone). He was, so I asked him to google cognitive dissonance. Then I suggested he stop and think because he was too smart to be so stupid.

Perhaps your Dad's retirement benefit package is shifting out from under him and he is afraid. The other thing to remember - when you dad retired your parents probably thought they had plenty of money to live out their lives and could also leave something for their kids. This past 6-10 months has changed the comfort levels of most retirees. Their future is more uncertain now then it has ever been in the past. Your parents bought the American dream - they worked hard, they educated their kids, they saved money, they didn't buy a new car every year, they bought a house they could afford instead of the one they wanted, and they planned to never be a burden on their children. Now they are not sure if their money will last as long as they will.

Most middle class parents over 60s (if they are honest about it) are now a little worried about the "burden on their children" part.

[RememberWellstone]

40. Nice synopsis

Perhaps your Dad's retirement benefit package is shifting out from under him and he is afraid. The other thing to remember - when you dad retired your parents probably thought they had plenty of money to live out their lives and could also leave something for their kids. This past 6-10 months has changed the comfort levels of most retirees.

This may very well be the case.

I will have to research and go hunting for answers...much like I did last year before the elction.

Thank you for the heads up.

[windbreeze]

46. Thank you for that...exactly...exactly...

WOW...I wish we got our medicare contribution paid for by the company, and that our retiree insurance cost us nothing...we pay just about $600 a month...and that is w/o co pays...for medicare and our co.retiree benefits...eye and dental coverage are included but we pay extra just to have it included...every month...your brother is pretty lucky at that....wb

[mysuzuki2]

47. I bet he does have Medicare

health insurance for retirees is almost universally secondary to Medicare after aage 65. In other words, it pays ONLY whaat Medicare does not. Most people with retiree coverage HAVE to have Medicare or they are screwed.

[Critters2]

18. This makes me so proud of my dad--the crazy lefty.

I need to give him a big hug next time I see him. My leftism is an inherited trait.

[rug]

21. I just got called a trotskyite!

By a DUer no less.

[Critters2]

23. LOL!! Whatever you do, don't go to Mexico! nt

[rug]

24. Not without a helmet.

[Ikonoklast]

74. Even as a little kid, Leon was always

picked last.

[RememberWellstone]

25. Thats just DU humor!

I think!:crazy:

[rug]

26. No, I think he's still pissed I supported Uncle Joe in the primary.

[RememberWellstone]

29. You still support uncle Joe today?

Right? So, there should'nt be a problem.

[eridani]

54. Well, if you're a Trot, you're a Trot

If you're not, you're not.

[Better Believe It]

103. Did an old line Stalinite call you that?

:)

[zulchzulu]

27. Is Dad on Medicare or Social Security?

He probably needs to get his head examined and get the proper meds.

If he's on either Medicare or Social Security, he is partaking in "socialist" programs.

Ask him to send the checks back to the government if he is so upset. Tell him you'll stop by to pick them up.

[RememberWellstone]

30. LOL!

Thanks! I needed that.

[PassingFair]

98. They think THEIR Medicare will be taken away and given to the undeserving poor.

And that THEY will be denied healthcare because
of their advanced years.

That's what someone is telling them.

:eyes:

[orwell]

31. Welcome fellow Trotskyites!

When do the secret meetings commence...

:patriot:

[RememberWellstone]

35. Behind the barn!

At midnight! Bring pitchforks and your birth certificate!!

[orwell]

39. Drats...

I only have a Certificate of Live Birth.

Good thing I still have my Ukranian passport!

[RememberWellstone]

41. That'll do! LOL!

Of course you may have to produce it as a live birth in triplicat...to a thousand news outlets and you are in!

[Vidar]

34. I'd take it as a compliment myself.

[RememberWellstone]

42. Bad connotations

Cold war is still fresh on people's mind plus...it is a buzz word being thrown around like a rag doll with the Rethugs.

[donheld]

44. It's time to get over that crap

No the cold war is only on the minds of people over 40. It's time we learn socialism isn't as bad as they all led us to believe.
What's more, they need to realize Capitalism isn't looking so rosy lately.

[NoSheep]

48. They sound a bit lost to me. I'm sorry your dad made you feel bad.

I had to write mine off. The economy is already turning around...so maybe you'll be forgiven (that's just nuts when it was the repukes that got us into this mess)

Hey! Maybe I need to talk to him about how I've paid taxes all my life so other's kids could go to public school. I don't have kids but half my state's budget goes to education. I'm okay with it but what if I were like your dad...who probably thinks he doesn't want to be asked to help anyone else (I guess he's rather help the rich, poor thing).

[quakerboy]

49. I am sorry your father has so little respect

for you. If mine had so little for me, we would not have a relationship. I think your GF would be justified in the potential blue streak.

[proud patriot]

50. I'm sorry

This is one of the reason's Ive been working hard on facebook poll threads .

We really need to be assertive everywhere and all the time .

Freepers are far too comfortable on facebook . Make them eat
their words and vote in the poll link in my sigline.

forgot to mention I got called a socialist , commie pinko,
but a marxist today plus many others on face book .

[AspenRose]

101. I'm convinced the majority of the political polls conducted on Facebook

are made by republicans.

Mainly because they are full of misspelled words. :dunce:

[Jennicut]

51. You should just show him DU, there are plenty of threads here showing

that Obama is FAR from a socialist.

[hay rick]

52. Trial by ignorance.

It is shocking to find out that good people, the people that we love- hold views that we disrespect. Unfortunately, I find that this leads to a permanent alteration in relationship. It is a bitter, bitter pill to swallow. I maintain cordial relationships with the important people in my life who land in this category ( most of my family and long-term friends), and I have come to avoid most political discussions with them- but I don't pretend that things haven't changed between us.

Another way this hurts is in forming new relationships. When I find out that someone new to me is a Republican (yeah, it's really that simple), I slam on the brakes...

[RememberWellstone]

69. I know

It's just gonna take time.

[Divine Discontent]

55. God bless you. I would have said, love you dad, & regardless of what my views are, they're better

than the corporate-republican party that cares nothing for my well being and those I love.

[Whalestoe]

56. No offense.

But your dad sounds like a loser.

[RememberWellstone]

71. He's a great man.

He loves to help others and is a truely remarkable man.

He has always been there for me, but right now, he is pretty upset with me. I think he has that "buyer's" remorse I heard about on NPR last week.

[AspenRose]

102. I would like to know how much of that "buyer's remorse" is actually

people looking for ANY excuse not to support Obama.

I'm sorry.

:hug:

[tavalon]

57. I actually am a socialist - I believe from everyone as needed, to everyone as needed

But most who would call me a socialist have no idea what it means. Your family clearly does not. I'm sorry this happened to you.

[Kdillard]

58. You should ask him to define Socialist because he has no idea what it really

means.

[and-justice-for-all]

60. I say the same thing...

"Socialist!!!" Oh yeah, define Socialist I say.

[Generic Brad]

85. I did that with a co-worker

I asked him to provide me with an example of a socialist government and he came back with Russia, China and Cuba. I asked him what system he thought Sweden and Norway had. He looked at me like he thought I was nuts and claimed they were democracies. I responded that if he expected to have an intelligent conversation with me in the future, I expected him to do his homework first.

Did that shut him up? No. He kept on bitching that he thought Obama was turning the United States into a socialist nation. He said this country would not get back on track until all regulations were dissolved and we had pure capitalism. "Like in Somalia?" I asked. "What do you mean - Somalia?" he replied. Then I explained to him that Somalia is hell hole on earth largely due to the fact that their form of capitalism has no government regulations. Then asked him if that was what he wanted for the United States. "That would never happen here," he told me, "because we're a Christian nation and we're better than the Somalians."

That's when I told him - no offense intended, but I would prefer that he never bring up politics, economics, or religion with me ever again.

How can people with a college education be so willfully ignorant?

[and-justice-for-all]

59. I'm a Socialist, but Obama is a Capitalist...

and if you father pried his eyes from the worst place to get any information, did a little research as to what other countries health care systems are like, he would think other wise. None of them are perfect, but they are a hell of a lot better then what we have; Free market health care = FAIL.

Having a Public Option is still not what other countries have, there the Governments do control the Health Care system, as it should be. But we just want to have the CHOICE of participating in a Public Health Care system, we are just trying to get that option.

whomever expects miracles from a president, is just setting themselves up for disaster. Did he have such high expectations for ShrubCO? Whose fault all this shit is?! Obama did not start this economic down fall, it was handed to him, this is another bush disaster.

[CTLawGuy]

62. does your dad watch Fox News or listen to Rush?

"socialist" and "socialism" are buzzwords cultivated by Fox and talk show hosts like Rush to condition a Pavlovian response. if your father is like most Fox watchers, he has no idea what "socialism" is, he just knows it's "bad." RW media outlets use the word, after the cultivation process, simply to provoke negative reaction in listeners toward anything they don't like, such as health care reform, the stimulus, etc.

Socialism, in actuality, is a system whereby the government, as a general rule, owns and administers all business and economic activity in the country for the benefit of the people (or at least that's the ideal). That is the system the Soviet Union had. It is extremely inefficient and prone to corruption. Not all government involvement in the economy is socialism. In fact "free market" capitalism itself requires a lot of government action: create and enforce private property rights, enforce contracts, print currency, enforce criminal laws, create and maintain commercial infrastructure such as roads and electric grids, create and grant the corporate (and other business) forms to protect owners from personal liability (that's right, corporations are a total creation of government as are all private property rights).

No Democratic elected official is a real socialist, not even Dennis Kucinich. Few if any mainstream Democratic voters are real socialists. The disagreement between Ds and Rs is over the degree of government regulation of our capitalist system.

My uneducated guess is that your dad has just been exposed to too much RW media. I think once things improve in this country, his opinion of Obama will rise again, I mean he was open to him before. Just know his accusations of "socialism" are likely just a product of pavlovian conditioning.

[knixphan]

87. Well said - and seconded.

[ensho]

65. I was called a Socialist by a religiously insane couple who own a

business I used. at the time I was spending money in their store.

I laughed at the wife and said I'd rather be a socialist then a neo con. she ran away into the back of the store.

these people are nuts. I'm a feminist first and always. I'm for saving the earth from climate change and progressive politically. and no more wars, ever. no nuke anything. and I don't think socialism is a bad word or bad option.

I won't go into their store ever again.

[Tsar_Bomba]

66. My relatives try to use these terms on me. Whenever I win an

argument the response is always the same, "if you don't like this country leave it". I have learned not to depend on them for anything. If they require anything from me however, they must pay. I am looking forward to the day my father can no longer care for himself, I will make him pray for quick death.

[RememberWellstone]

70. Thats terrible!

I am not in the same situation as you are..I feel sad for you, I'll say a prayer for you and your father. Thats the main deal for me, we have been close for most of my life and politics has separated us.

[TheCoxwain]

67. Congrats !!!

[Union Yes]

68. Be proud of your true self! I take pride in being called marxist and commie.

:patriot:

[prolesunited]

72. If you love your dad, make an agreement never to talk politics with him

It's the only way, but you both have to agree and adhere to it.

Just say, "I love you dad, but we can't discuss politics ever again. I value you more than ideology."

That's the only thing that has kept the peace with the BIL's family. They are very good people and wonderful family members, so we just change the subject any time something comes up. We won't change their minds and they won't change ours, so what's the point in causing family strife.

[RememberWellstone]

77. I probably will

I do not like the way I am feeling right now...this sux.

[prolesunited]

78. I don't get the people here that disown family members over politics

Family is family and unless they are sheet-wearing KKK members or have a stockpile of guns to kill the liberals, I say just call a truce.

And you may have to be the strong one to enforce it. If he makes a dig, just say that you agreed not to discuss politics. If he persists, just calmly leave the house or room.

He's your dad and you only get one of those. Focus on all the things you love about him.

[harun]

73. No need to argue just ask him his definition of Socialist.

When he realized he can't even come close to defining it, maybe he won't be so quick to call people that.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

76. I'm waiting for it from my sisters.

It's coming soon. But I'm not close to them anyway, so it won't bother me like it has with your dad. Sorry, man.

[Sabien]

79. me too - by my MOM!

She also said that Obama wants to kill off old people. I nearly lost it.

I told her that this was a bunch of BS drummed up about a provision (put in by Republicans) that allows payment to doctors for their time to discuss a Living Will with their patients.

She's a relatively young woman - in her fifties yet, and less than 2 weeks ago we were talking about her living will at her kitchen table the night before she went in for OUTPATIENT surgery. That same night we talked about how the same surgery 20 years ago would've allowed her to stay in the hospital for a few days - but insurance companies don't want to pay anymore so she'd be out in 4 hours or so...

This coming from a woman who last year laid in a hospital bed while a hospital volunteer shared information about living wills. That volunteer was sent to her bedside because her doctor doesn't get reimbursed for his time by her insurance company to discuss these important matters.

She doesn't know enough to realize that she's being lied to by her right-wingnut mis-informed friends.

UGH!

driving. me. crazy.

[ncteechur]

80. My parents just did the same thing==my mom said that the govt would tell seniors they couldn't live

anymore. I regrettably called her a damn liar. I called and apologized. But I told her that she knew what she said wasn't true.

My parents have gone off the deep end.

[valerief]

81. Back in the sixties when I was a teen, similar name-calling was limited to "Commie." nt

[neuvocat]

82. My dad called me Newt Gingrich once.

He was dying and my mom openly discussed putting him in a nursing home (the stress was killing her). My dad wasn't in his right mind but he remembered Gingrich's remarks about orphans.

Then he forgot that he ever said it the next day.

[RBInMaine]

84. Your parents are right wingers at heart. Sorry, but if they are drinking the "socialism" kool aid,

SHAME ON THEM !! It is STUPID THINKING. No offense, I'm sure they are otherwise good people, but STUPID thinking is just that, when they are berating their own child and unwilling to listen to you or take a few minutes to read a website. SHAME ON THEM !!

[DailyGrind51]

86. I would consider that I high compliment!

[iamthebandfanman]

88. say no to socialism

[GreenTea]

89. So what, nothing wrong with socialism....I call them Corporate Fascist (corporate enablers).

[gauguin57]

90. When my right-wing cousin started muttering about Socialists taking over the country...

... I said, "Socialism! Yay!" and put my arms up in the air. Then I winked at him, and he had to laugh.

[DailyGrind51]

94. I would have asked, "When? I need to start preparing for the celebration!"

[tomm2thumbs]

91. I think we are seeing older Americans lashing out at their becoming a fading generation

Another ten or fifteen years and things will have changed all the more, but a 'sudden switch' a mere 200 days in office really speaks to the fact that they harbored these feelings all along, but just needed a catalyst to use them. I look at it as one of the stages of loss -anger, and they have lost to the up and coming newer generation. This is no different from past generations, but you have to put it in perspective.

Let them grieve, let them get angry, eventually they'll not be able to bounce that 'anger ball' as high each day because it take a lot more energy to be angry and mad than to be satisfied and happy. They'll exhaust themselves in a month's time. Just hope they don't give themselves heart attacks.

[CitizenPatriot]

92. you've gotten a lot of good advice here

so I'll only add that I know how awful this feels and how scary it is to feel a huge divide like that open between you and someone you love.

I like to remember all of the common ground and focus on that if the person is really important to me. It sounds to me like your dad is scared, angry, and ashamed that he may not be taking care of his family the way he thought he would be. With a child, he might lash out even more, because you are the reason he worked all of these years.

We think we know all about our parents -- but they hide so much. Their dreams are harder to see clearly.

If there's an activity you always did together, just call him and ask him to go to it and don't talk about anything "important".

There's always time to talk politics later...after all, there's another 3 years before a big election:-)

Here's a hug 'cuz I know it hurts the heart when these things happen...

[RememberWellstone]

100. Thank you

It helps to have friends back you up.

[ima_sinnic]

93. during the Vietnam War, my father and I had terrible arguments, but

years later, and even recently, he confessed that, really, I had made him question his beliefs about the war and really start thinking. He said I had asked questions that he couldn't really answer. I do remember asking, if the Vietnamese do want communism as their economic system, why shouldn't they be allowed to have it? who were we to force a system on another country? I can't remember any other specific arguments, and I was naive as hell back then and arguing basically on a gut level. We did have some rocky times back then, but he changed over the years from a pretty "ordinary," unquestioning Republican to a solid Democrat. At 93, he loves Obama and will hear no criticism of him.

on edit: meant to say, I'm so sorry about your rift with your father; I have always been close to and fond of mine and it always troubled me greatly when we had blow-outs. I am in hopes that yours will "see the light" and even, like mine did, admit it to you. As advised above, try to agree simply not to talk about politics. You described him as a generous, conscious person, so I think he'll work through his issues.

:hug:

[a la izquierda]

95. I feel so bad for you...

my dad voted Green in NJ this past election. His mom, my beloved liberal grandma, would be proud (this is the first time he's not voted R). My mom, though, votes straight ticket R--making matters worse is that she works for a school district and is gay. Yeah, I know. My family thinks I'm Lenin reincarnated. And then I married into a very conservative military family. When I go to CA to visit my family, my brother-in-law thinks it's hilarious to greet me "Hey commie!" And then the arguing begins.

In 2004, when I went home for Thanksgiving, I specifically instructed my sister not to talk about GWB (she's a good lefty too); well she did, and I ended up flying home a day early because I couldn't deal with my mom.

It really sucks.

[HughBeaumont]

96. Send him this:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/93

Seriously, WHAT is with the Reagan Democrat Boomers and their "Red Menace" addiction? WHY will they never let this false and silly canard GO?

[PassingFair]

99. I got into it about this with a customer yesterday...

Same rhetoric, "Obama's a SOCIALIST"....
Old people will be euthanized....
Unconstitutional to limit peoples wages...



These were two octogenarians....and they were MAD.



Jeez, if Obama is a "socialist" then what am I?

[TheKentuckian]

104. Sorry about the static. I had a similar conversation with a close friend last night

This guy is young (under 30), pretty generally liberal, and voted for Obama but after six months he was talking trickle down, the need to cut taxes for the rich and corporations, and limiting the Federal Government to the letter of the Constitution (I held back on hitting him with Medicare/Medicaid keeping his parents alive and for the delivery of at least one of his kids, the help he got getting into his home, schooling, etc).

When I confronted him on broader issues he had no rebuttals other than saying he valued our friendship and didn't want to get so mad he could never talk to me again. I just let him know that the concept of burying disagreement is one of the big reasons everything is so fucked up and polarized now, that if we have convictions then they need to stand up to some opposition or they are worthless, and reminded him that I am and always will be his friend and I don't want his children to suffer, to take food off his table, and reminded him that I love this country at least as much as he does.

All I take away from the OP, the nonsense some of my family is spouting off on, and my own surprising conversation is that we have done far too little in destroying Reagan and the pack of preposterous nonsense he sold the country on. In fact, I'm starting to believe until we really knuckle down and destroy the St Ronnie illusion that it will be very, very difficult to actually accomplish anything in this country. Despite the massive failures of the ideology it is still our national 'default' position.

Until Raygun is destroyed nothing else can be built.