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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:07 PM
Original message
Why Dean's support is evaporating
There have been numerous new stories recently showing the presidential race tightening, and Dean's support eroding. Here are a few reasons why I think it is taking place:

1. Many people are starting to pay attention to the candidates for the first time, and as they find out more information about Dean and his record they decide to support other candidates.

2. The weeks of attacks on Dean by the other contenders are taking their toll, and Dean's negatives are going up.

3. The media has recently done an about face, running with many negative stories on Dean, i.e. Vermont nuke security, big corporation tax handouts in Vermont, questions about Dean's sealed records.

4. Dean himself has not helped. His verbal blunders (Osama), and doing 180 degree turns on important policy stances (tax plan) has some reconsidering their support, and taking a fresh look at the other candidates.

In my opinion, Dean should have stuck to his tax plan for example, rather than waffle because of the critics.
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curse10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not to mention that he really hasn't performed well at the debates
flubbing his words and whatnot.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I watched the last Iowa televised debate
and Dean was off his game. Looks like the heat is getting to him, and its only going to get hotter.
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funky_bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I missed it
I missed it, Jim. However, in recent debates, I did notice that the heat seems to melt him like candle wax. Let's hope it refines Clark, 'cause the heat is on.
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
37. Reality check...Clark fades in latest poll:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_Poll.htm

Apparently Tuesday's USAToday poll was an anomaly.

Sorry.
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flama Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. But he's taken a lesson
from (cough) Nixon and from some success consultant along the way.

He always tries to look his best; neat, clean-shaven, unwrinkled suit. He stands when he can to deliver a message (or just answer a simple question). The person whose head is highest is in authority, don't you know. (Guess that's the kiss of death for my guy Kucinich.)

I've been asking Dean supporters why they support Dean. Their answer is usually that "he agrees with me on x, y, and z." They never tell me their feelings on "x, y, and z."

Look good and carry some big endorsements. ;-)
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. His support is not evaporating. He is the frontrunner.


The only place his support is "evaporating" is in Clark supporters' minds.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Bullshit. n/t
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bullshit. n/t
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
41. Is this, like, the lPG-13 version of POOP?
I like it. It has all of the depth of thought yet is so much more forceful.
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. why Dean is still the front runner
because every one of the other candidates has at least as many weaknesses as Dean, or fewer strengths. despite all the attacks, and the sour-grapes naysayers, Dean is still running strong and getting stronger every day.

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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
39. no he isn't
he has maxed out on the angry faction and doesn't appeal to the other 70% of the party. he has always been a niche candidate and even his niche is tiring of the flubs.
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funky_bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes but...
You have to admire a man who will take a look at an issue, ferret out it's weak points, and be willing to make revisions where necessary.

Yes, I support Clark, and I will do so until the very end... whenever that may be. But if it happens sooner than I want it to, then I will roll up my sleeves, drop another cap on Dean (financially speaking), and get to work to get him in the office. I will also send him a copy of the Bible and highlight Job. I'm sorry for his gaffes, but I won't shoot him in the foot for changing his policies. It just shows a willingness to admit a wrong. That is a refreshing change from our current political climate.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Dream On
LOL
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. it's a good thing the poll results show him doing just fine....everyone is
entitled to thier opinion..until Dean is behind...he is the leader.
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maxr4clark Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. He is the front-runner

...Clark is the leader. Just my opinion.
:bounce:
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adamrsilva Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. The press has been hostile to Dean since the beginning
The fact that he is still the solid front-runner is astonishing.
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cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. hahahahahahaha
The press has been tripping over themselves to explain why Dean is better than everyone else. hello, breaking news, "Dean wins debate because his head did not set on fire while debating. More at 11"

It is only the last two weeks that they have started to look closer at him and have some negative things to say.
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adamrsilva Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. That's BS
And you know it. No one's been attacked by the media whores more than Dean.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. You have GOT to be kidding!!!!
More people heard Joan Jett supported Dean than that post 9-11 the Fire Fighters endorsed Kerry, not Bush.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. We now return you to your regularly scheduled reality. (n/t)
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. "regularly scheduled reality!!!!"
ROTFLMAO
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your first reason
...is unsubstantiated conjecture. The rest are not much better. The race was bound to tighten up- this is no time to bellyache. Clark is not on the map in the early states that matter: NH, Iowa, and South Carolina. He's like Lieberman in the early days- doing fine in the national polls, but can't win a single state.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. Evaporating? Hardly.
Despite the ruthless attacks by the Democratic elite , Deans campaign is going strong. Nice try though.
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ClarkGraham2004 Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. Regular people are starting to tune in, hence Clark's surge.
Plus the fact that Dean wants to:


1) raise my taxes

2) not pre-judge Osama (the worst criminal ever to attack the US)


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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. ha, I think not........
:yourock: for positivity!
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Put up the bat! We will show them who is the front-runner.
Arrogant, huh? Can't help it. No one really challenged * until Dean came along. Kucinich did, but unfortunately, no one was listening and I don't know what to think about why he didn't resonate.

But Dean did. Dean was the FIRST one to mention Clinton - the rest followed including JL. He has the temerity to say that we were not safer w/ SH gone and that is was regional problem.

He is so right.

Hey, I like Dean/Clark, but I will take Clark/Dean. They are both winners. Get Bush* out!
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batman Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. are you speaking about the bradley endorsement or the afl-cio?
;)
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. 2 & 3 no. 1& 4 yes some what.
I do think people are starting to wake up and pay attention. The holidays are over and it is time to get back to business. There's some new looks, some re evaluation and what not.

I think the flip flops didn't help. But they would have been no big deal if he hadn't brought up other candidate flip flops.

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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. you left off "madonna's endorsement" .... a definite show stopper
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ClarkGraham2004 Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I've seen it on the news 4 times today
I saw Bradley's once.
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YellowDawgDemocrat Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Nope, it's because the DNC machine and the media have started their stop
Dean campaign. It's no secret, the Clinton's are backing Clark to keep Dean from taking over the reigns of the party. McAullife knows he is toast if Dean wins. The media is happy to help out because a 2 man race is great for ratings and they have been in bed with the party establishment for years.

No, I'm not a big fan of the current state of our party and put the blame solidly on McAullife and the party establisment. Dean poses a serious threat to "business as usual" politicos.

As a Labor guy, I can't point to any achievements made with the current crop of insiders. Painting Dean as a left wing fringe candidate has been part of the plan all along. His history just doesn't support that tag. He's my idea of a progressive Democrat and very mainstream.

It's gonna get a lot worse for Dean. Dean supporters still control the ball and we can win if stay focused and work that much harder.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. agree..it's soo obvious .....Dean is the guy who can take down shrub
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. I've told you a million times...
...Do not exaggerate!
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. I've been telling you guys all along this would happen
and so it is
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. How's the weather in bizzaroworld?
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. People are starting to think about the election.
If they watch Clark one or two times, they will see what he can do for the Dems, the country, and the world. Clark is just a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the Dems. People see that now that they are looking.

It isn't that Dean is all that bad. He isn't. Clark is just a whale of a lot better.
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the populist Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Let's hope it evaporates before the Iowa primary
so that a candidate who has the best chance of winning battleground states in the mid-atlantic and mid-west can win the Iowa primary. That's right, I'm talking about Gephardt.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. His poll numbers have done nothing but inch upward, not downward.
The other candidates have varied wildly in their support from poll to poll.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. Oops, I guess we didn't notice
Our meetup grew by about 40 people yesterday. The new folks didn't seem vaporous. So perhaps, evaporating is not the correct term.

Perhaps growing is more a accurate term.

The rumours of Dean's demise are exaggerated, as usual.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
38. Variation on #1: People are paying attention to OTHER candidates too,
and are finding that they like someone else more.

When Dean was running around the country selling the same superficial Dean which the media was selling, the other candidates were making sure that they were laying the groundwork in NH and IA so that voters would know what was under the surface of their own identities.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
40. I never knew due process and a presumption of innocence was a blunder
"His verbal blunders (Osama)"

If we're going to try him we're going to do it right a la Nuremburg.
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fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-09-04 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
42. Sorry NOT evaporating here.
I'm going to send in another $100 to Dean tomorrow because of the complete BS Gephardt is putting out. (the phony voters I mean). I just saw Gep on the Tweety show, did not see any credibility when he talked about the subject.
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