If we lose NC, was Edwards a good choice?

[BeyondGeography]

[Cheswick2.0]

1. Is Edwards still running?

Yawn

[yardwork]

17. Edwards: "Iraq's a Mess"

Edwards: 'Iraq's a mess'
Vowing to improve health care, the N.C. senator tells crowd Bush policies 'will never be with you.'

John Edwards, the Democratic vice presidential candidate, gets a standing ovation from the hometown crowd at the Raleigh Civic and Convention Center.

By LYNN BONNER, Staff Writer

RALEIGH -- Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards told a hometown crowd Monday that President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney were incompetent in their handling of Iraq. And he came close to calling them liars.

....

"Iraq's a mess," he told a friendly crowd of more than 1,000 at the Raleigh Civic and Convention Center. "And it's a mess because of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. It is that simple."

http://www.newsobserver.com/print/tuesday/front/story/1658142p-7888555c.html

[Cheswick2.0]

39. What else are they left to say about it?

Both voted poorly on the IWR in the first place. I hope they can convince people to forget that and I agree that Iraq is a mess. I knew it would be.

[bryant69]

2. I'd say no

There are counterbalancing matters though; he might do very well at the debates for example. Actually i think he will do extremely well.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. We weren't carrying NC one way or another.

Nor were we going to carry hardly any of the South. But still, Edwards does appeal to a lot of people. Was he my pick for VP? No. But he was still a good choice.

[HFishbine]

14. Don't give up on us yet!

Edwards was in Raleigh yeterday and there is huge energy to win the state for Kerry. More than 100,000 new voters have been registered since July and over half a million people have moved to the state since the last presidential election. The electorate may be shifting. Don't be too suprised if NC goes to Kerry.

[spooky3]

33. That's excellent news, thanks!

[Cha]

91. I'm not giving up...I think Edwards is the

Best Choice And going to make an Excellent Vice President of the United States of America :kick:

[wickywom]

21. North Carolinians are not as Bush backing as

many assume.
Yes,
we have more than our share of the freeperesque... but we have so many corrupt politicans on both sides of the aisle people have learned to vote per candidate...there are a lot of typical Republicans here who think *'s corrupt.

and don't forget this is a huge college state.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. Good, and I hope for the first time,

The DNC plants their asses smack dab on the middle of the college campus and gets every college kid out to the polls! This is the one thing that's always baffled me. If you give these kids A) a reminder and B) a ride (since most of them don't have cars), they'll vote overwhelmingly Democratic. We SHOULD have about 5 buses on every college campus ready and willing to cart their asses to the voting booth.

[ClassWarrior]

4. He was an AWESOME choice.

He can slip in the knife while flashing his big toothy grin, and he helped energize JK.

Besides, teetering wingers that I know cite him as the best thing going for the Dem ticket.

23.

[Rockholm]

5. Edwards? Who is that?

Where the hell is Edwards?

[HFishbine]

16. Funny you should ask

He was in Raleigh yesterday.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/politics/9718148.htm?1c

[Rockholm]

22. I hope it was a good Rally in Raleigh!

Why can't corporate media report on him?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rockholm]

43. Please take offense. And I take offense at your comment.

Those who know me know I am neither. As far as I can see, Edwards has been very invisible on the news for about the last two weeks. I voted for him in the primary. Those of us fortunate enought to live in Massachusetts rarely if ever get any information regarding Senator Edwards or for that matter anything regarding the campaign. THe Boston Globe despises Kerry so we rarely get anything remotely balanced as far as the election goes.

Bush troll. That's really sweet.

[Carolinian]

69. If you aren't trying to tear Edwards down, why is your previous

post worded so negatively??????? Why is the "Where the hell is Edwards?" comment continually used at DU? It's a jab at Edwards - plain and simple. BTW, I suspect anyone who perpetrates this sort polarizing just weeks shy of the election.

[Rockholm]

71. It's called sarcasm.

If you lived in a state that was not a battleground you would know that. If you watched brodcast news or cable, you would know that. Edwards is very intelligent, very charasmatic, endearing and dangerous to the republicans. The media knows it. They will do everything to keep him under-reported.
My asking "where the Hell" was sarcastic, but in reality it must be asked. I want to see him every single day.

[Carolinian]

74. "Where in the hell is Edwards" sounds like an accusation to me. It

implys that Edwards is not doing his job. I'm not the only one who interprets it that way else there wouldn't be numerous defensive replys when that phrase is used. Election Day is coming up soon. We need to pull together to win!

[I Lean Left]

83. His being underutilized was one of the poll options!

And I agree that the national media hardly ever shows his speeches unless he is making an appearance with Kerry. I'm also in Massachusetts, and we rarely hear about Edwards.

I think Letterman and Imus have been making jokes about his low-profile lately.

Certainly not disloyal to comment on.

[Carolinian]

96. OK, let's discuss the media blackout of Edwards. But let's NOT

run around saying "Where in the hell is Edwards?" like the republicans are doing. It's a cheap shot with double meaning. Instead, why aren't we assailing the media for more coverage of Edwards?

[phish420]

86. The media asks this question arrogantly...

yet edwards has just as many public appearances as the others, the press just hasnt covered him

[phish420]

88. Besides, if we saw more of Edwards, we would be hearing...

"Who is running the show? Kerry or Edwards"...screw these people that cant be satisfied with anything. Im tired of them.

[goodhue]

6. Yes, but if we loose OH, WI, and PA then maybe not.

But problem would likely have more to do with Kerry than Edwards.

[AP]

8. Who else would have more appeal in OH and WI? Edwards came in second

in both those states.

[CornField]

7. Not only will Kerry win in 2004 & 2008

But Edwards will be carrying us forward by becoming President in 2012 and 2016. (With Obama as VP -- who will then take us another 8 years in the future)

Edwards is the best man for the job. He always has been.

[Northern Experiment]

41. Well....

Sounds like a plan to me!
Could you imagine how bad the GOP would be BITCHING if the democrats won 6 elections in a row???

[Auntie Bush]

9. If he were out there attacking Cheney...we'd be doing better.

Then Kerry could be the nice guy and Edwards the typical attack dog.

[Carolinian]

10. What is the purpose of this thread???????????????????????

[AP]

11. To give long time Kerry and Edwards haters a chance to rant?

I'll take my answer off the air.

[BeyondGeography]

19. Ummm, to have a little conversation

You know, that's what forums are all about.

[AP]

24. Sometimes they're also about helping out Republicans.

[BeyondGeography]

32. Oh, calm yourself down

What is this, Cheerleaders Underground?

[Cheswick2.0]

36. next will come the loyalty oaths

notice that anyone who is not a cheerleader is a longtime Kerry and Edwards hater.....LOL

Like it's not my party can my candidates and my future president and VP too.

There are some people here who would love to make the DU motto :Just shut up and Vote.

[AP]

38. Cheswick, you ARE a long time Edwards hater. Are you denying that?

You are not being accused of that because you're not cheerleading for Kerry. You're being accused of that because you do hate Edwards. You've said as much. Repeatedly.

[Cheswick2.0]

42. hater.... no Edwards is not important enough to have haters

bored to death and disagree with him on almost everything? You bet.

Now wouldn't you just love to have the power to shine bright lights in my face and drip water on me until I give in or leave DU?


What is with the Dramatics?
"Cheswick, are you now or have you ever been a MEMBER OF THE EDWARDS HATER PARTY?" :EYES:

[AP]

48. Being creditable and being willing to be accountable for what you post...

...go hand in hand.

You have in fact written some really nasty very lightly substantiated (and often unsubtantiated) BS about Edwards -- your last post being another example (Edwards is 'not important' yet you've never really been able to make a decent argument for why you think that's the case).

Then you try to pass this off as you just not 'cheerleading' enough for Kerry so that you rile the hardliners? Whatever.

All you've ever been asked to do is make your arguments and substantiate them and you're being held accountable for a history of not doing that -- of just typing out one liners and pretending it's everyone else's fault for not being tolearant of your dissenting opinions.

If you want to get into why you don't like Edwards now, go for it. Type it out. Let's see it.

So far in this thread, one allegation we have is that Edwards didn't hook up Kerry with his big donors and that's demonstrably untrue. What do you have?

[AP]

37. I am calm. Say this were CU. What do you want it to be? Detractors U.?

[BeyondGeography]

47. Two of the three poll choices are positive for Edwards

We've also stimulated some good conversation on how Edwards is being used and can be better used. So how does that make this a thread for detractors and haters?

[AP]

49. We've also had one lie about Edwards' supporters withholding support

for Kerry.

And don't worry. I don't want to shut down this discussion. Read my posts to the thread.

I just want free reign to criticize it, which is in the same spirit as your original post, no?

You can catch more flies with garbage.

[BeyondGeography]

63. The "lie" is reported in the NYO

<snip>Mr. Edwards’ supporters have been uniquely loyal to their candidate during the four months since he bowed out of the race. While Mr. Clark’s and Richard Gephardt’s finance committees folded themselves eagerly into the Kerry operation, Mr. Edwards’ supporters kept in touch with him and each other and lobbied for a Kerry-Edwards ticket. They continued to call Mr. Edwards their candidate and mumbled their wishes to Kerry staffers. At a cocktail party in March to introduce the Edwards finance committee to Mr. Kerry, several donors told Mr. Kerry directly that he should put Mr. Edwards on the ticket "if you want to see our firepower."

http://www.newyorkobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=9280

[JI7]

65. so what ? Gep's labor supporters promised things also

and as i said in another post kerry was already breaking fundraising records BEFORE he met with these people. and they didn't have all that much power in terms of money since edwards would have had a lot more during the primary if that was the case.

[JI7]

26. agree, there is no good reason for this thread

[yardwork]

12. Edwards gave an excellent speech in Raleigh, NC yesterday

The story covered the top fold of the Raleigh paper, which is read all over North Carolina.

Headline read: Edwards: "Iraq's a Mess."

[Carolinian]

13. We have an election to win. Stop this kind of shit NOW!

[AP]

15. Let these posters show true colors. It helps us interpret their other

uhm, "advice" on how to campaign.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. you know what is great?

The Kerry campaign is finally doing what all of us "disloyal" democrats have been saying all along they should do. We were right, all of us treasonous Dean supporters and you were wrong. Finally they are fighting back and opposing bush.

[AP]

57. All I'm asking you to do is substantiate your arguments for why you don't

like Edwards.

I'm not criticizing anyone for giving the Kerry campaign good adivce. I just think the knee-jerk, emotionally-laden, unthinking, unsupported crticisms of Edwards (and Kerry) are lame and that people who make them shouldn't be afraid to try to support them and shouldn't be surprised when they're reminded that they have a history of not doing that.

That you like Dean alot isn't a good excuse for saying dumb things about Edwards.

[napi21]

18. Edwards is out there EVERY DAY! Just because he doesn't make

it onto the media news everyday doesn't mean he's not there! Cheney doesn't make the news every day either. Media only cover controversial statements of the day, and Edwards has done a great job firing back at Cheney's unsavory remarks in the last few weeks.

[WilliamPitt]

20. The Edwards pick had nothing to do with NC

It was aimed at southern Ohio, southern Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and at southern states where our best chance is to pick up 40-45% of the popular vote to shore up the national numbers.

[BeyondGeography]

27. So if we lose OH and WV, Edwards was a bad pick

Right?

I agree with the rural/working-man rationale, but picking Edwards was also about fundraising, as a lot of his major backers were threatening to withold their financial love for Kerry if their man wasn't on the ticket.

And, before the Edwards crowd jumps down my throat, I happen to like the guy very much. Too bad he's not from a state we can actually win, as we need all the electoral votes we can get in this election.

[AP]

40. You are crazy. One of the first things Edwards did after withdrawing was

introduce Kerry to all his big donors. Remember the pictures? DC? Edwards greeting Kerry at the car? Great pictures?

Remember all that?

By the way, who do you think could have won NC for Kerry? Liddy Dole?

[JI7]

45. yes he did, and Kerry had Edwards start campaigning

in swing states right away.and it wasn't about big donors since they would have supported kerry anyways. since when do those who fight corporate corruption support republicans ? just as some union people wanted gephardt. they were getting in a good word for who they wanted as vp.

but kerry already knew the positives about edwards. remember when edwards dropped out of the primary on super tuesday ? the speech kerry gave where he talked about edwards made edwards sound like a winner and someone who was going places. it wasn't just some nice words about how he is a good friend or how he was a good candidate. it made it almost seem as if had edwards won.

[AP]

51. Furthermore, Kerry started setting records for donations after Edwards

pulled out.

I doubt Edwards's people were withholding and hypotheticallly, even if they were, it certainly couldn't have influenced Kerry even the slightest.

[BeyondGeography]

50. Yes, and the donors told Kerry pick this guy...

and the money tree will be all yours!

No big deal; I think that's how the world works. Or maybe Edwards was just doing charitable work by introducing Kerry to his donors.

If so, call me crazy.

[JI7]

52. that's a bunch of crap

they would have supported kerry anyways. since when do those who fight corporate corruption suppor republicans ? there were labor union people who pushed for gephardt also .

[JohnKleeb]

76. we were told that Kerry would choose Gephardt in return for Iowa

I agree with you and AP, what is with this? I hear Edwards did a hell of a job in Pennsylvania a couple of days ago and people are ignoring it.

[AP]

55. Kerry was having record $$$$ months BEFORE he picked Edwards.

What's your evidence for this claim?

Didn't he set records in Feb and March? Didn't he pick Edwards in April?

[JI7]

58. he announced Edwards in early July for vp running mate

i think personally he made the decision himself long before.

but on fundraising he was doing good raising money just from winning iowa and new hampshire. but he did especially well and broke records after super tuesday. and this was BEFORE he met with those edwards donors.

[AP]

61. Oops...I was measuring based on where I remember being when the...

...announcement was made. I guess I was there a little later in the year.

[BeyondGeography]

59. He picked Edwards later, in June I believe

Anyway, there was reporting in New York (New York Observer, I believe) prior to the selection that Edwards' backers were making a big push for JE, and that increased financial support for Kerry would result.

Can't find the link, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it. LOL!

Anyway, every VP is chosen in part for his ability to tap new sources of funding. Go figure.

[AP]

60. You do appreciate that Edwards introduced Kerry to his biggest donors

immediately and that Kerry raised a ton of money before the announcement, and probably has only raised a small fraction of the total amount since the announcement, and that any amount attributable to Edwards is a smaller percentage of that?

You appreciate that, don't you?

Kerry had no problem raising money and didn't need it to get more.

If the NYO felt the need to make Edwards seem more about money than anything else, that's their problem, and the problem of readers not sophisticated enough to figure out the truth. But it doesn't have anything to do with reality.

[BeyondGeography]

62. Candidates always need more money, AP

Here's the link:

Edwards Pick Spurs Politicos To Exultation
The New York Observer

by Ben Smith and Lizzy Ratner

John Kerry introduced his running mate, John Edwards, as the man to help him "speak the heart of America," but some of the loudest cheers for Mr. Kerry’s pick came on the country’s extremities: a conference call of Manhattan fund-raisers, the midtown offices of urban labor, and a hotel in Boston where trial lawyers cheered and stamped their feet when word of the choice came through.

<snip>The North Carolina Senator was the choice of the party’s rank and file and of its elite. And Mr. Edwards is poised to squeeze out the money and organizational muscle that remains to be squeezed from a city whose enthusiasm for Mr. Kerry has yet to match its enmity for President George W. Bush.

http://www.newyorkobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=9280

On edit: I left out the best part:

<snip>Mr. Edwards’ supporters have been uniquely loyal to their candidate during the four months since he bowed out of the race. While Mr. Clark’s and Richard Gephardt’s finance committees folded themselves eagerly into the Kerry operation, Mr. Edwards’ supporters kept in touch with him and each other and lobbied for a Kerry-Edwards ticket. They continued to call Mr. Edwards their candidate and mumbled their wishes to Kerry staffers. At a cocktail party in March to introduce the Edwards finance committee to Mr. Kerry, several donors told Mr. Kerry directly that he should put Mr. Edwards on the ticket "if you want to see our firepower."

Now maybe you can get me some reporting that backs up your case.

[JI7]

64. but Kerry was already doing well in terms of raising money

and these guys didn't have all that much power in terms of money since it would have meant edwards would have had a lot more money during the primary.

so to claim picking edwards had to do with this is just false.

[Carolinian]

77. This thread was created with the intent to attack Edwards and divide DU.

It's evident from reading through your many posts. We don't need this kind of crap.

[AP]

80. The difference between 200 mil and 215 mil from an Edwards nom...

...isn't going make Kerry pick someone he didn't want to pick, and Edwards wasn't holding these people back from donating to Kerry.

Kerry did not pick Edwards solely to tap into money and this article tells you that Edwards wasn't telling these people not to do it. So the implication that Edwards was bribing Kerry would be totally inaccurate.

Furhtermore, this is anecdote that applies to the personal opinions of a couple people at one meeting who felt strongly about Edwards.

What was this worth? A couple 2,000 post-convention donations? How much money do you think you're talking about? Do you have any evidence that there was a sudden outpooring of $ from people bribing Kerry?

[spooky3]

35. I think Edwards wears well throughout the Midwest--not just the

southern parts, and I think it's equally true in cities as in small towns and elsewhere. Having spent more than 3 decades there before moving, it's just my impression but I think his style is comfortable for Midwesterners, and the large crowds seem to support that. I would like to see Kerry dispatch Edwards to larger cities as well, to solidify the ticket's support and get out the vote.

[JohnKleeb]

78. he does

Anyone ever hear of Macomb County, Michigan, thats the kinda county Edwards will help us with.

[secular_warrior]

87. But Gephardt could've done that

and carried his own state, and would've fit the attack dog role perfectly while adding his own gravitas to compliment Kerry's.

Iraq aside, Gephardt's record on economic issues is second to none. He even went against President Clinton on labor issues.

I just never saw the rationale for Edwards. He is simply a younger Gephardt. If Edwards were to serve in the Senate for 20yrs he *might* amass an economic record as strong as Gep's.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. Ask me after the election

Whether he is or whether isn't the best man for the job, he's our candidate and he's out there working his butt off. I don't mind threads where someone suggests something one of our candidates might be able to do differently (although I know some people do). Sometimes some good ideas get out that way. But John Edwards is who he is and he is Kerry's running mate. Talk about how best to use him if we want to speculate and second guess. That might even be useful.

Now AFTER the election I look forward to a round of Monday morning quarterbacking, except I hope the topic is how could we have won even bigger than we did.

[molly]

29. What's your point? another negative poll?

[qwlauren35]

30. I'm not that comfortable with Edwards...

I keep coming across too many North Carolinians who don't like him. Some say he spent his whole 6 years campaigning for the Presidency and never did anything for NC. (Hard to believe, and I can refute it, not to mention, Jesse Helms SHOULD have had that base covered, but we won't go there...)

Others, who are very progressive, don't like his warmongering, and his track record on animal rights is beyond dismal.

Its an interestingly balanced ticket, but I'm not sure whether it will make a difference.

HOWEVER, I definitely think it was wiser than attempting to pick a "minority" VP, such as a woman like Geraldine Ferraro, or a Jewish candidate like Joe Lieberman. Kerry picked someone very "all-American", AND YOUNGER. I think it was wise.

[liberal N proud]

31. First, the Democrats have not lost North Carolina and even if they

do, it has been so filled with R/W Christan fundamentalist and NASCAR grunts for so long. It is amazing they have a Democrat as a Senator anyway.

[yardwork]

53. We happen to have a Democrat for a governor as well

In fact, we usually have a Democratic governor, and a Democratic majority in the state Legislation.

[JI7]

34. Edwards was clearly the best vp choice for Kerry

it's not just about one state. it's an overall appeal he has. anyone who watches him can see this. and kerry saw it during the primaries which is why he had edwards do so many things in swing states months before he named him as vp choice in july. edwards was so obviously the best choice that the kerry campaign would have had a hard time of making the vp announcement a surprise which is why they leaked all that false info on how edwards was out of the running for vp. of course it was still not a surprise, but the week and especially the days before he announced were kind of exciting with the guessing games.

but if you look back on what they were saying you can see that kerry made up his decision on edwards long before he publicly announced based on the things him and edwards were saying.

for those in southern california, especially the los angeles area we recieved an email for a fundraiser with john edwards which was scheduled after kerry made his vp announcement but sent more than a week before. it talked about how hard edwards is working "with" kerry so "they" could win and some mentions about edwards being the future of the party.

[abrock]

44. See, the problem this year was there were so many great Pres candidates.

Dean, Clark, Edwards, and Kerry all in the same race, and ANY of those guys would have made an awesome president.

[Radical Activist]

54. If we don't fight for Arkansas picking Edwards was a waste

Why pick a Southerner and not even fight to get the easiest state in the South for a Democrat to win?

[JI7]

56. they are going for Arkansas

but they had to cut back spending in many states they are competing in because of limited resources. i think they are going to wait until after the debates to see which states to put the money into .

also, i think the plan was for clinton to do much of the work in that state. but of course he can't do much of the campaigning previously scheduled anymore. but i think they will try to come up with another plan to win the state.

[faithfulcitizen]

67. I think this is Clark's role...

and OK too. Course, Clinton could help as well ;)

[cindyw]

66. Edwards is the best man to be president if Kerry should fall incapacitated

That is the only reason to pick a VP in my mind. We don't need NC anyway.

[faithfulcitizen]

68. if that's the ONLY reason, I respectfully disagree -nt

[SangamonTaylor]

70. Edwards wasn't picked to win NC, he was picked to

cut the enormous lead that Bush has among rural voters.

I.e. - take care of THIS PROBLEM:

[JohnKleeb]

79. yep something Gore failed in

and something I think Edwards would really help out with. He also not only appeals to southern small town folk but northern ones too, remember he had nice showings in the upper midwest.

[genius]

72. The Greens like Edwards. It's not just about North Carolina.

[theboss]

73. He was not selected to win NC

I don't think that was ever really considered. In fact, I don't think he was selected to "win" any part of the South. He was selected to a) help Kerry seem like a real human being and b) make Bush work in the South more than he wanted to.

[JohnKleeb]

75. Yes

remember he's a large part of why Kerry has made inroads here, Kerry himself is great but I have to give credit to him.

[fujiyama]

81. I don't think

Edwards was necessarily chosen because he could definetely deliver NC. NC was always seen as a longshot - after all this is a state Bush won by 13% or so in '00.

Edwards was chosen primarily because he excited many in the party and was seen as helping with rural voters - especially because of his message on the economy.

It's still to be seen whether this was an effective choice. I hope it proves to be. I also happen to believe that him and Elizabeth haven't been used to their full potential. He is a great speaker and she is agreat asset as well. I've heard that they've been going to a lot of small towns all over, but it would be good to use them in major cities as well. I think he would be a major help among African Americans.

[Yupster]

82. Really, I can't think of anyone

who would be doing any better.

I'm not a big fan of Gephardt's.

Hillary Clinton would have been a big roll of the dice. Maybe a big win?

Bob Graham? I guess a good pick if he'd carry Florida.

My pick was Diane Feinstein, but I don't know if she'd be carrying states that Kerry isn't already carrying.

[secular_warrior]

84. I would have much preferred Dick Gephardt

Despite his shameful Rose Garden moment, Gephardt has a solid populist economic record (voted against NAFTA/GATT) that would've really resonated with white middle class swing voters, especially in areas like the 'Rust Belt' and midwest. I'm pretty sure Gephardt would've been able to guarantee us Missouri and Iowa. He had the gravitas, experience and respect to compliment a Kerry and battle a Cheney. He had an energetic base of union supporters who are really loyal to him. And most of all, he is not afraid to street fight .. Gephardt is an old school union pol who will get into the mud if need be.. he's a brawler and a backroom dealer. We need some of that, IMO.

The knock on Gep is that he's boring. Guess what? Middle aged white swing voters like boring. Another problem would've been dealing with the animosity between the Gep camp and the Dean camp, but I think Dean understands it was a tough primary battle and still thinks highly of Gephardt.

Don't get me wrong, I like Edwards, but I'm dissapointed thus far in how he's being used (yet another Cahill/Shrum bad move) and the soft approach he's taken. I desperately wish Edwards would launch a populist assault on this Administration and their coziness with Big Business, i.e. 'the people vs Halliburton'. Edwards needs to be making our economic argument while Kerry takes them apart on Iraq/national security.

[phish420]

85. Edwards is a good messenger...

...as long as the media plays some of his speeches. He is great at conveying an idea in a simple way, a nice compliment to Kerry's sometimes complex answers that lose people. I still think he was a great choice, regardless of the NC turnout

[Spiffarino]

89. We'll win NC

...or come damn close and not just because of Edwards. It's happening because a lot of Democrats are out there registering new voters and firing up likely ones.

You watch...it'll be within 5 points.

[Cha]

92. I like your 'tude..instead of all this

handwringing! We'll win North Carolina!

[Tangledog]

90. Says something about Kerry...

...that he picked somebody more evocative on the speech circuit, more instantly likeable, an obvious successor. It's a way of saying that John Kerry has enough courage and enough emotional stability to not shy away from attention being paid to his own deficiencies as a speaker.

There are very few parallels. Bentsen was more likeable than Dukakis, but in an avuncular way, not a dynamic way, and was a "caretaker" rather than a successor. Kemp was more likeable than Dole, but that's not exactly big news. Maybe you go back to LBJ/Triple-H, and there was something, uh, terminally non-threatening about Hubert Humphrey.

Dick Gephardt would have been a conventional choice, and a wrong one. Don't get me wrong, I respect Gephardt and it would be good for everybody if he got a frontline Cabinet job and help us recover from Tommy Thompson, but he he would have been a classic "targeted candidate," pick up a Breadbasket state or 2, not take any of the attention away from the top of the ticket, &c. That strategy is too modest.

B* chose a running mate who is not only even less charismatic than himself, but probably died 6 years ago and didn't even tell anybody. That is classic "insecure egomaniac" philosophy.

[Cha]

94. Plus bush needed an evil uncle in the

white house..someone who could teach him about meaness..sort of a mentor when it came to Washington politics.

[Lefta Dissenter]

93. Edwards was never my choice

but when I took my daughter and her boyfriend to the rally to see the next Vice-President of the United States, the crowd (including those two young voters) LOVED him - you'd have thought he was a rock star!

I think he does energize a group of voters that might otherwise remain disinterested in the whole process.

Unfortunately (and maybe this has been said above - I haven't read every reply), the media has chosen to ignore Edwards, so no matter how great he might be, the only ones who will know about it are the ones who actually see him in person. (believe me, I've seen this before! :eyes: )

[Cha]

95. Oh, the media ignores anything that is Great for

America, but Edwards is getting local attention now and I think as the campaign progresses they ignore Edwards and Kerry at their own peril.

[Mr Blond]

97. We're not going to carry North Carolina, but...

...I like the Edwards choice.

But, part of me does wish we had looked a little harder at Gephardt. He's LOVED by the union members (Many of whom are Pro 2nd Ammendment Rights people too!! And that couldn't hurt us.) Plus, he's a polticial warrior.

But most of all, we would have carried Missouri for SURE (Still might, but it would have been a SLAM-DUNK with Dick). And, Missouri has voted for the winning President in every election since the 40s!!

Might be a short-signted view, but I would have liked putting the Show-Me State in the solid Kerry camp.

[Spiffarino]

98. Don't be so sure

If you don't think we can carry NC, take a look at the polls. No Democratic Presidential candidate has been as close as Kerry in a very long time. If we GOTV in a big way, we win. Period.